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A General Gameplay Lesson CA Has Not Learned

ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 28,310
They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

Comments

  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,531

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    edited July 2019
    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.

  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,531

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
    No, that's just the usual Zhuge Liang apologetics. His campaigns ruined the country of why do you think Shu stopped these wasteful campaigns when he finally managed to kill himself?

    Also, any comments on the actual thread topic?

  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,531

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
    No, that's just the usual Zhuge Liang apologetics. His campaigns ruined the country of why do you think Shu stopped these wasteful campaigns when he finally managed to kill himself?

    Also, any comments on the actual thread topic?
    They did not stop the campaigns. Jiang Wei completed 11 more campaigns after Zhuge Liang died. This is on topic as you decided to use Zhuge Liang as an example and the example is completely wrong.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
    No, that's just the usual Zhuge Liang apologetics. His campaigns ruined the country of why do you think Shu stopped these wasteful campaigns when he finally managed to kill himself?

    Also, any comments on the actual thread topic?
    They did not stop the campaigns. Jiang Wei completed 11 more campaigns after Zhuge Liang died. This is on topic as you decided to use Zhuge Liang as an example and the example is completely wrong.
    Except Jiang Wei was not Zhuge Liang's immediate successor, those did stop the campaigns because they were a whole lot of effort for minimal or no gain.

    Also, was Zhuge Liang able to run his armies without logistics altogether?

  • vnthvnth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 30
    edited July 2019
    Supply, or the lack thereof, did actually play a large role in the last 2 campaigns. The Romance version portrayed Cao Zhen as a bumbling idiot, only Sima Yi could match Zhuge's genius. The truth is somewhat reversed. Whether due to bad luck or miscalculation, Zhuge Liang actually had a really bad time when Cao Zhen was commander, although he faced only Cao's vanguard and subordinate--Zhang Yue and Hao Zhao. Against Sima Yi, Zhuge Liang fared much better in open combat, which prompted Sima to switched to a defensive fortification strategy, knowing that Shu did not have the supplies to field an army for long. During the last campaign, Sima Yi explicitly remarked that Zhuge picked the plains of Wu Zhang as the battlefield clearly indicates his intention to plant and harvest crop there, which confirms Shu's supply problem.
  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,531

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
    No, that's just the usual Zhuge Liang apologetics. His campaigns ruined the country of why do you think Shu stopped these wasteful campaigns when he finally managed to kill himself?

    Also, any comments on the actual thread topic?
    They did not stop the campaigns. Jiang Wei completed 11 more campaigns after Zhuge Liang died. This is on topic as you decided to use Zhuge Liang as an example and the example is completely wrong.
    Except Jiang Wei was not Zhuge Liang's immediate successor, those did stop the campaigns because they were a whole lot of effort for minimal or no gain.

    Also, was Zhuge Liang able to run his armies without logistics altogether?
    No one can run a campaign without logistics. This is why Zhuge Liang did not take part in most of Liu Bei's campaigns as Zhuge Liang was left back to be in charge of logistics.

    I do not deny this, but to say that Zhuge Liang ruined Shu is incorrect.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    edited July 2019
    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
    No, that's just the usual Zhuge Liang apologetics. His campaigns ruined the country of why do you think Shu stopped these wasteful campaigns when he finally managed to kill himself?

    Also, any comments on the actual thread topic?
    They did not stop the campaigns. Jiang Wei completed 11 more campaigns after Zhuge Liang died. This is on topic as you decided to use Zhuge Liang as an example and the example is completely wrong.
    Except Jiang Wei was not Zhuge Liang's immediate successor, those did stop the campaigns because they were a whole lot of effort for minimal or no gain.

    Also, was Zhuge Liang able to run his armies without logistics altogether?
    No one can run a campaign without logistics. This is why Zhuge Liang did not take part in most of Liu Bei's campaigns as Zhuge Liang was left back to be in charge of logistics.

    I do not deny this, but to say that Zhuge Liang ruined Shu is incorrect.
    In this game you can run your campaigns without logistics eventually.

  • vnthvnth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 30

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
    No, that's just the usual Zhuge Liang apologetics. His campaigns ruined the country of why do you think Shu stopped these wasteful campaigns when he finally managed to kill himself?

    Also, any comments on the actual thread topic?
    They did not stop the campaigns. Jiang Wei completed 11 more campaigns after Zhuge Liang died. This is on topic as you decided to use Zhuge Liang as an example and the example is completely wrong.
    Except Jiang Wei was not Zhuge Liang's immediate successor, those did stop the campaigns because they were a whole lot of effort for minimal or no gain.

    Also, was Zhuge Liang able to run his armies without logistics altogether?
    Your own view on Zhuge and his campaign aside (you're wrong) it's absurd to insist that Jiang Wan and Fei Yi stopped the campaign because they thought that Zhuge's plan was stupid or ruinous. They stopped because they saw themselves as not being able to compare to him, and as such could not hope for better result. Instead, they could only hope to preserve his legacy. Fei Yi very much literally said this. Jiang Wei reversed this policy because he thought highly of himself.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    edited July 2019
    vnth said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    markp27 said:

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs. I'm pretty sure Zhuge Liang could not magically reduce the daily calory requirements of his soldiers, no matter what kind of genius strategist he was...o wait, that was actually the #1 reason why his northern expeditions went nowhere.

    Why even have a supply mechanic when you can promptly switch it off completely? This is something even modern armies can't ignore.

    Please, CA, try and pay attention to this, it has been plaguing far too many TW titles by now and it's one of the reasons why the difficulty curve can flatline so badly from mid to lategame, you're just stacking too much good things on top of each other too fast.

    The reason Zhuge Liang lost the first Northern Campaign was due to Ma Su not following orders.
    Second was lost due to Han Zhao's defence of Chencang, delaying the Shu's forces attempts to get a foothold.
    Third Campaign they conquered Wudu and Yinping so was a success.
    Fourth Campaign was a loss due to supplies but that was due to Li Yan lying about getting orders to withdraw from Liu Shan.
    Fifth Campaign was the campaign Zhuge Liang died.
    That's the Romance version.

    In reality, his expeditions were doomed from the start because he simply didn't have the means to realize his way too ambitious goals which was conquering Wei, not simple expansion. So they were all failures and he depleted his country's stores tot he point they had to eventually give up on them altogether and when one of Zhuge's successors tried again, they were even bigger failures and weakened the country to the point Wei could take over.
    Actually that is the historical version :D

    It was Jiang Wei who drained Shu's resources.

    Liao Hua remarked: "'One who does not refrain from using military force will end up burning himself.' I am referring to Boyue (Jiang Wei). He is inferior to the enemy in terms of intelligence and military power, yet he keeps attacking them. How can he expect to overcome them? The events of today are exactly as described in this line from the Classic of Poetry: 'Why were these things not before me? Or why were they not after me?"
    No, that's just the usual Zhuge Liang apologetics. His campaigns ruined the country of why do you think Shu stopped these wasteful campaigns when he finally managed to kill himself?

    Also, any comments on the actual thread topic?
    They did not stop the campaigns. Jiang Wei completed 11 more campaigns after Zhuge Liang died. This is on topic as you decided to use Zhuge Liang as an example and the example is completely wrong.
    Except Jiang Wei was not Zhuge Liang's immediate successor, those did stop the campaigns because they were a whole lot of effort for minimal or no gain.

    Also, was Zhuge Liang able to run his armies without logistics altogether?
    Your own view on Zhuge and his campaign aside (you're wrong) it's absurd to insist that Jiang Wan and Fei Yi stopped the campaign because they thought that Zhuge's plan was stupid or ruinous. They stopped because they saw themselves as not being able to compare to him, and as such could not hope for better result. Instead, they could only hope to preserve his legacy. Fei Yi very much literary said this. Jiang Wei reversed this policy because he thought highly of himself.
    No, they stopped them because they were wasteful and saying that they could never match Zhuge's genius was just their way of saving both their and Zhuge's face so they didn't look like cowards and didn't have to poop on Zhuge's legacy. That's how Chinese court etiquette rolls.

    Jiang Wei doesn't get this courtesy because he was the guy in charge when the country fell, just like Liu Shan receives scorn despite being clever enough to live out his life even after the fall of his kingdom. O yeah, and weren't it all those evil Eunuchs and astrologers again in the end? I'm pretty well versed in the tropes of Chinese history recording.

    Also, care to comment on the actual topic?

  • vnthvnth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 30
    edited July 2019
    I must admit I'm not familiar with the reference you're referring to, the one about "Jiang Wei doesn't get this courtesy." Fei Yi said it to Jiang Wei, not Zhuge. Without indication to the contrary, I prefer to take people's quotes at face value. So I must ask for additional info beyond "Chinese court etiquette." That's not really evidence by itself, just supposition.

    I'm not sure you'd noticed but Zhuge was a very big deal even in his own time. Sima Yan ordered his writings collected and preserved. You can well argue that Zhuge's plan was stupid or whatever (it's not correct or anything but you can argue it), but his contemporaries certainly didn't think so.

    As for your "topic," the talent makes sense to me. Maybe dial down or whatever? I've never had Zhuge Liang myself so I wouldn't know.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,183

    They are still not adequately keeping track of the various buffs and discounts which can very quickly stack and result in absurdities like free cavalry if you own all the pastures or the supply mechanic being rendered moot by research and skill buffs.

    An army that needs no supplies at all is an undead army from dominions 5. :)
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    edited July 2019
    vnth said:



    As for your "topic," the talent makes sense to me. Maybe dial down or whatever? I've never had Zhuge Liang myself so I wouldn't know.

    No, it makes no sense. It's lame that you can neutralize an entire mechanic just by leveling up a strategist and it's not just Zhuge Liang, it's all strategists.

    It must be nerfed just like strategists in general need copious batting with the nerfhammer.

  • vnthvnth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 30
    You can nerf it to whatever you like but what doesn't make sense? Logistical officers can reduce waste and take advantage of surplus, both of which can reduce net spending. The game is hardly realistic. If one mechanic bothers you that much then you might as well stop playing.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    vnth said:

    You can nerf it to whatever you like but what doesn't make sense? Logistical officers can reduce waste and take advantage of surplus, both of which can reduce net spending. The game is hardly realistic. If one mechanic bothers you that much then you might as well stop playing.

    I'd rather CA fix this flaw.

    So, was Zhuge Lian capable of elminating his troop's need to eat?

  • vnthvnth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 30
    No? He reduces waste and takes advantage of surplus.
  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,531


    vnth said:

    You can nerf it to whatever you like but what doesn't make sense? Logistical officers can reduce waste and take advantage of surplus, both of which can reduce net spending. The game is hardly realistic. If one mechanic bothers you that much then you might as well stop playing.

    I'd rather CA fix this flaw.

    So, was Zhuge Lian capable of elminating his troop's need to eat?
    They could just eat the enemy ;)
  • JamboJambo Member Registered Users Posts: 264
    I agree with the OP. Supply becomes moot in the mid to late game.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    edited July 2019
    Jambo said:

    I agree with the OP. Supply becomes moot in the mid to late game.

    What was the saying? An amateur general thinks strategically, a professional one logistically.

    CA, please stop making some of the most important mechanics irrelevant!
    markp27 said:


    vnth said:

    You can nerf it to whatever you like but what doesn't make sense? Logistical officers can reduce waste and take advantage of surplus, both of which can reduce net spending. The game is hardly realistic. If one mechanic bothers you that much then you might as well stop playing.

    I'd rather CA fix this flaw.

    So, was Zhuge Lian capable of elminating his troop's need to eat?
    They could just eat the enemy ;)
    Ew, no! That's how you contract Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease.

  • markp27markp27 Registered Users Posts: 1,531

    Jambo said:

    I agree with the OP. Supply becomes moot in the mid to late game.

    What was the saying? An amateur general thinks strategically, a professional one logistically.

    CA, please stop making some of the most important mechanics irrelevant!
    markp27 said:


    vnth said:

    You can nerf it to whatever you like but what doesn't make sense? Logistical officers can reduce waste and take advantage of surplus, both of which can reduce net spending. The game is hardly realistic. If one mechanic bothers you that much then you might as well stop playing.

    I'd rather CA fix this flaw.

    So, was Zhuge Lian capable of elminating his troop's need to eat?
    They could just eat the enemy ;)
    Ew, no! That's how you contract Creutzfeld-Jacobs disease.
    Chinese actually have several terms that refer to how the meat is prepared :D
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,523
    I 10000% agree. I don't think I have EVER cared about supply. I just never notice it and it's always full. Never worth considering except on rare occasions.
  • RO37RO37 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 527
    edited July 2019
    Agree with OP that the supply mechanic can basically be ignored.

    Fwiw, the Records of the Three Kingdoms and the Records of Wei both depict Zhuge Liang as a stellar administrator and political but a poor general. Zhuge Liang military reputation largely comes from Romance.
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