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Next four races for tw3

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  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,004
    OdTengri said:

    DoW are not neutral... They may be Mercs but they would never serve Greenskins nor Chaos.

    They would, actually. If you look at the alliance tables that were made before the DoW were discontinued, they would literally work with anyone without any trouble. Ts across the board (T stood for "Trusted ally", which meant that they would work together without any issues. There was also "Distrusted ally", which meant they'd work with someone but didn't like it - dwarfs with High or Wood Elves being a signature example - and X for 'cannot ally').

    In practice, it depends on the Dog of War in question. Some of the RoR, for instance, refuse to fight with most Destruction factions, while some refuse to fight with most Order factions.

    In terms of conversion into TWW, though, it's likely that most if not all factions using the DoW list which are significant enough to hold territory on the map will be Order-aligned.

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 17,635
    OdTengri said:

    Eah... Regardles.

    The Idea of Starting with DoW and Kislev both is really the Idea. Its oddly compelling.

    I think DoW's flamboyance could contrast really nicely with the other races.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • IokkoIokko Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 422
    I have to imagine that if the core races are all chaos, this also means at least 2 chaos themed lord packs, possibly 4 if cross game packs don't happen, and even if they do happen they will each feature one chaos character. Also, 4 chaos FLC lords or more.

    Sounds like it would get stale quite quickly, to me. I understand chaos has a strong fanbase on TT, but a game that is so heavily chaos focused would probably be niche.
    Stating opinions as if they're facts in your signature and adding "Change my mind" doesn't make them facts, change my mind.
  • WyvaxWyvax Registered Users Posts: 2,201
    Iokko said:

    I have to imagine that if the core races are all chaos, this also means at least 2 chaos themed lord packs, possibly 4 if cross game packs don't happen, and even if they do happen they will each feature one chaos character. Also, 4 chaos FLC lords or more.

    Sounds like it would get stale quite quickly, to me. I understand chaos has a strong fanbase on TT, but a game that is so heavily chaos focused would probably be niche.

    The answer is the inverse, DoC on release and four unique DLCs that add monogods, but more importantly, update and expand DoC, WoC and BM rosters too. Still have those four Chaos dlcs, but the core product isn't all heresy on release.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • IokkoIokko Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 422
    Wyvax said:

    Iokko said:

    I have to imagine that if the core races are all chaos, this also means at least 2 chaos themed lord packs, possibly 4 if cross game packs don't happen, and even if they do happen they will each feature one chaos character. Also, 4 chaos FLC lords or more.

    Sounds like it would get stale quite quickly, to me. I understand chaos has a strong fanbase on TT, but a game that is so heavily chaos focused would probably be niche.

    The answer is the inverse, DoC on release and four unique DLCs that add monogods, but more importantly, update and expand DoC, WoC and BM rosters too. Still have those four Chaos dlcs, but the core product isn't all heresy on release.
    I'm sti not convinced but that's a bit better.
    Stating opinions as if they're facts in your signature and adding "Change my mind" doesn't make them facts, change my mind.
  • BorealBoreal Registered Users Posts: 596

    Khorne
    Slaanesh
    Nurgle
    Tzeentch

    DLC1: Ogre Kingdoms
    DLC2: Chaos Dwarfs

    Fairly certain this is what it will end up being, with maybe Kislev as the pre-order bonus or a third campaign pack. Cathay has no chance.

    Yeah that's not happening, CA won't do all Chaos, as the will need to have a faction with a standard faction with a balanced all round roster. They will also need to have a "good guy" faction for those who only like to play as them.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 3,443
    Goatforce said:

    OdTengri said:

    I have to admit that while I think Daemons of Chaos are 100% Core in TWWH3, the possibility of DoW, Kislev Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms as core has a certain appeal.

    DoW vs. Ogres in the southern part of the map have a natural conflict over the trade routes to the far east while Kislev's wheat lands border the Chaos Dwarfs.

    Plus then you have

    -Good-
    DoW
    Kislev

    -Bad-
    Ogres
    Chaos Dwarfs

    I think Daemons vs Kislev and DoW vs OKs would be a more natural fit for that idea as Kislev is more known for fighting against WoC and Daemon incursions to my knowledge.
    This does seem like a decent setup. I could also see DoW vs Chaos Dwarfs, as the CD are known for raiding those trade routes while Ogres are more prone to protecting caravans (for a price). Either way this can easily be set up as two rivalries, one in the north, one in the south, and either the OK or the CD get the Tomb Kings treatment, added shortly after launch as a DLC.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,906
    Am I the only one who think DoW is very unlikely as a single faction?
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 4,343
    @davedave1124 I guess you are mate 😅
    CA is running out of races and DoW is a perfect candidate.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,906
    ArneSo said:

    @davedave1124 I guess you are mate 😅
    CA is running out of races and DoW is a perfect candidate.

    I know there are a few other puritans.. :smiley:
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 5,951
    edited August 2019

    Am I the only one who think DoW is very unlikely as a single faction?

    In what way? Estalia, Tilea and Border Princes not being unified culturally? Or perhaps because pure mercenary faction isn't united by anything?

    For the first, Estalia and Tilea are somewhat close in origins so it could at least pass. BP however shouldn't even exist as a state. BP would probably best serve as a bunch of single settlement factions, each having a different human "culture"(Bretonnian, Empire, etc.).

    For the latter it's just Tilean dominance being pushed as a unifying factor. In which case game 3 makes no sense as the game to introduce DoW into, rather than games 1 and 2, at least to me.

    Or was it something else?

    Maybe the SR/DoW distinction? In my opinion they should be grounded in Southern Realms but people have different ideas on the matter.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565
    Crossil said:

    BP however shouldn't even exist as a state. BP would probably best serve as a bunch of single settlement factions, each having a different human "culture"(Bretonnian, Empire, etc.).

    Even better each and every Border Prince Settlement should be controlled by a different Rouge Faction that is randomized with every play through.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 5,951
    edited August 2019
    OdTengri said:

    Crossil said:

    BP however shouldn't even exist as a state. BP would probably best serve as a bunch of single settlement factions, each having a different human "culture"(Bretonnian, Empire, etc.).

    Even better each and every Border Prince Settlement should be controlled by a different Rouge Faction that is randomized with every play through.
    ....Watch the world weep as an unholy alliance is forged between Vashnaar and the Scourge of Aquitaine that obliterates the Old World.

    Mhhm, anyway, I think that it should still be humans and Tamurkhan at least shows some names for these factions on its maps.


    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • TorakTorak Registered Users Posts: 769
    I just want nagash playable with undead legions faction
    Team skaven
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,004
    Crossil said:

    OdTengri said:

    Crossil said:

    BP however shouldn't even exist as a state. BP would probably best serve as a bunch of single settlement factions, each having a different human "culture"(Bretonnian, Empire, etc.).

    Even better each and every Border Prince Settlement should be controlled by a different Rouge Faction that is randomized with every play through.
    ....Watch the world weep as an unholy alliance is forged between Vashnaar and the Scourge of Aquitaine that obliterates the Old World.

    Mhhm, anyway, I think that it should still be humans and Tamurkhan at least shows some names for these factions on its maps.


    You could probably come up with a list of rogue factions which are suitable for the region, so we don't get Vashnaar show up in the area.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 5,951
    edited August 2019
    Draxynnic said:

    Crossil said:

    OdTengri said:

    Crossil said:

    BP however shouldn't even exist as a state. BP would probably best serve as a bunch of single settlement factions, each having a different human "culture"(Bretonnian, Empire, etc.).

    Even better each and every Border Prince Settlement should be controlled by a different Rouge Faction that is randomized with every play through.
    ....Watch the world weep as an unholy alliance is forged between Vashnaar and the Scourge of Aquitaine that obliterates the Old World.

    Mhhm, anyway, I think that it should still be humans and Tamurkhan at least shows some names for these factions on its maps.


    You could probably come up with a list of rogue factions which are suitable for the region, so we don't get Vashnaar show up in the area.
    Scions of Tesseninck, Gerhardt's Mercenaries and Bernhoff's Brigands based on Empire. If Bretonnians count Jerrod's Errantry Army and Remnants of Bregonne.

    Pirates? From South Ocean, from Far Ocean and from Trantio.

    What else? Greenskins?

    In my opinion the notion doesn't really hold. At most you could make factions based on what I've shown up top with the picture and make them devolve into Rogue Armies once they're destroyed.

    But at least I dislike the Rogue Armies flags(just black with a red line and a crest) enough to not want them to always have a guaranteed spot on the map.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,004
    Crossil said:

    Draxynnic said:

    Crossil said:

    OdTengri said:

    Crossil said:

    BP however shouldn't even exist as a state. BP would probably best serve as a bunch of single settlement factions, each having a different human "culture"(Bretonnian, Empire, etc.).

    Even better each and every Border Prince Settlement should be controlled by a different Rouge Faction that is randomized with every play through.
    ....Watch the world weep as an unholy alliance is forged between Vashnaar and the Scourge of Aquitaine that obliterates the Old World.

    Mhhm, anyway, I think that it should still be humans and Tamurkhan at least shows some names for these factions on its maps.


    You could probably come up with a list of rogue factions which are suitable for the region, so we don't get Vashnaar show up in the area.
    Scions of Tesseninck, Gerhardt's Mercenaries and Bernhoff's Brigands based on Empire. If Bretonnians count Jerrod's Errantry Army and Remnants of Bregonne.

    Pirates? From South Ocean, from Far Ocean and from Trantio.

    What else? Greenskins?

    In my opinion the notion doesn't really hold. At most you could make factions based on what I've shown up top with the picture and make them devolve into Rogue Armies once they're destroyed.

    But at least I dislike the Rogue Armies flags(just black with a red line and a crest) enough to not want them to always have a guaranteed spot on the map.
    Fair enough.

    Being more serious, you could probably come up with a list of factions which could be in the Border Princes. Empire. Bretonnia. Dwarfs. Dogs of War, if implemented. A Vampire Count faction to represent the Vampire Border Prince. Could even have some exotic possibilities such as greenskins, ogres, and/or a "High Elf Expedition" faction. Give each race a certain "weighting", and then randomly determine which factions populate the area (so the human factions are most likely, while the Vampire Border Prince and High Elf Expedition are relatively unlikely to show up).

    So there is a random seed each game of which Border Princes are powerful enough to dominate a region, but they're all still Border Prince factions.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 5,951
    edited August 2019
    Well race-wise you could count Empire, Bretonnia, Kislev, DoW/SR and Araby just from humans, if the latter three ever appear. That's five "cultures" of humans that seem reasonable to start with. I never felt like Gashnag would count as a VC faction, though. A Strigoi lord but with human faction? Of course, I do think BP should be a generic designation in game similar to Rogue Armies as to make clear that these aren't connected to the main cultures they're based on.

    Either way, I wouldn't expect as much as a random seed to be implemented by CA just for this relatively unimportant area of the map but I guess it wouldn't be bad.

    Also, I think technically the Black Venom Tribe is already in game and represented on the map up top so we pretty much have one of the GS factions in the area.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,004
    I had the impression that there was at least one (not sure if it was Gashnag or not) which did use undead troops, while keeping it low-key enough that they didn't get a pile of crusaders coming down their neck. It does seem as if Gashnag isn't the only one in the region. Either way, if they are present, they should have very different diplomacy to most Vampires.

    I don't think there's a precedent for a Kislev-like force in the region, but I might be wrong there.
  • CrossilCrossil Registered Users Posts: 5,951
    edited August 2019
    I think the human detritus of the Old World in general goes to BP. At least the wikia mentions Kislev alongside Empire and Bretonnia when looking at Border Princes Confederacy page: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Border_Prince_Confederacy
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 3,565
    In one of the Fantasy Role Play Campaigns theirs actually a Tomb King in the area, and in another a Chaos Cult.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,004
    edited August 2019
    Crossil said:

    I think the human detritus of the Old World in general goes to BP. At least the wikia mentions Kislev alongside Empire and Bretonnia when looking at Border Princes Confederacy page: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Border_Prince_Confederacy

    Hrrrmn. Source is Renegade Crowns - I'll have to see if that's among my PDFs...

    EDIT It is!

    The source doesn't exclude the possibility of a Kislevite Border Prince altogether, but I'd say that the wiki mentioning Kislev as an example is misleading. Kislev only comes up twice in the book... in the name generation appendices.

    There's a table of origins that gives rough percentages:

    Dwarf: 8%
    Elf: 1%
    Halfling: 1%
    Human - Border Princes: 30%
    Human - Bretonnian: 15%
    Human - Empire: 15%
    Human - Tilean: 15%
    Human - Other 15%

    The "Border Princes" origin are probably families that originally come from one of the other human categories, so that 30% can probably be divided among the other four categories.

    Chaos, monster, and undead-ruled principalities seem to be rare enough that the guidance in the book seems to be "only use them for plot purposes, and use them sparingly even then".

    Interestingly, humans from realms outside of the Old World, including Cathay, Ind, and even Araby, are also noted as being in the same category of rarity as Chaos, monster, and undead-ruled principalities. Which implies that the Human - Other category is still referring to Old World humans, which means in practice it's limited to Kislevites, Estalians, and possibly the odd Norscan that turned away from Chaos.

    It'd probably be reasonably safe to treat the entire region as Dogs of War if push came to shove, though: Empire and Bretonnian Border Princes probably don't have access to the more exotic stuff on the Empire and Bretonnian lists, and even Border Princes of Bretonnian origin are probably more willing to use mercenaries than regular Bretonnians. (Not hard to do, since the regular Bretonnians consider it beneath their honour.)
    Post edited by Draxynnic on
  • overtaker40overtaker40 Registered Users Posts: 51
    I think alot of people with bleak projections for the number of factions and future content haven't really clicked that the 3 Warhammer tw games are the very definition of a "successful games as service" large consistent updates coupled with fun free ones to keep you hooked. If they just do a few dlc and let it die, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. That out of the blue dlc for Rome 2 was, as far as I can see, an experiment. I think they will want to do as many factions and ideas and unique things, that will keep people playing and buying for as long as possible and recommending friends try.

    In order for new players to really play you will eventually be required to buy 3 full price games and a **** ton of dlc. It will be daunting for new customers they will be hooked. The prices will stay relatively constant as well. Look at the price of tww1 it's still a full priced game.

    Certainly the profit margins for new content for an old game must be higher and significantly easier to make than completely new content.

    The free dlc could all be added as part of a patch, but instead you have to click "free download". inner completionist trigger. It will be "Just one more, the base factions are so fun and unique"

    I mean as long as it's good I have no problem with it, but yeah EA needs to take notes.
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