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CA, let CeltiK fix the bugs!

rafantomasrafantomas Posts: 199Registered Users
edited August 12 in Off Topic General
I,ve heard a modder called CeltiK offered hinself to fix the bugs of the game at no cost, after an email was sent to CA , they never answered CeltiK. Why would you turn your back on someone who is willing to help you at no cost (not even answer him “no thanks, we are good”) but you waste your time on streamers and things that are not the core of what we love and praise in your games.

@Sagranda You seem to know about the case, do you hace additional info?

@CeltiK hey if its you, keep up the good work and lets make CA answer you at least a “no, thanks”
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Comments

  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 720Registered Users
    I believe he is no longer modding.
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKPosts: 35,683Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Perhaps CA has already hired him?

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • rafantomasrafantomas Posts: 199Registered Users

    Perhaps CA has already hired him?

    That would be awesome news! did he fixed the bugs as he said?
  • BillyRuffianBillyRuffian Moderator UKPosts: 35,683Registered Users, Moderators, Knights

    Perhaps CA has already hired him?

    That would be awesome news! did he fixed the bugs as he said?
    No idea. I'm only speculating.

    "He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)

    |Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi

    Forum Terms and Conditions: - https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest

    "We wunt be druv". iot6pc7dn8qs.png
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,507Registered Users
    edited August 12


    @Sagranda You seem to know about the case, do you hace additional info?

    I don't.
    All I know is what CeltiK wrote here on the forums and/or in the comment section of one of his mods (when they were still public) and/or on reddit (I honestly don't remember where exactly he wrote that) and all he said was that he offered CA to help fix the bugs (pointing out where the mistake is and how they, which includes all the people who worked on the Community Bug Fix Mod or the particular incorporated mods from other modders and not just CeltiK, fixed them).
    At this point of time he didn't receive an answer from CA. Sometime later he got asked by someone if CA got back to him and he stated that they didn't.
    I haven't read anything since then about it.

    Perhaps CA has already hired him?

    I would assume that this would have made the round.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • SelakahSelakah Posts: 307Registered Users
    I'm pretty sure @CeltiK has quit modding for Warhammer 2. His last post in these forums dates back to November 2018.
  • The_baronThe_baron Posts: 482Registered Users
    Personal opinion from what I gathered :

    a) CA prefers to check Reddit.
    b) CA is a company that focused like DICE is focused on making SEGA happy just like DICE is focused on making EA happy. neither care for the fans to much to say the least.
    c) people had been offering constructive help for ages ... while some are less relevant some of those people are either tied to the games with years of experience or to the community much more than CA is connected to it and it shows by the criticism and advice they offer yet CA doesn't care or listen to them.
    d) CA pushes blood DLC and makes sure modders can create it.
    e) CA heavily restricted modders impact and don't bother to offer that much aid in the subject.
    f) CA barely communicates and when it is communicating it is to say that it is offensive to see a painted picture of a girl in bikini - I am not taking sides I am just making an observation :)


    So I have huge doubt that CA gives a **** enough to actually listen to good advice even when its free, though I do appreciate Celtik - he is epic.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,933Registered Users
    CA doesn't care about going backward to polish things. If they can put a band aid on the game and customers still buy DLC then they'll stick to their formula.
  • BitsToByteOnBitsToByteOn Posts: 7Registered Users
    edited August 12

    CA doesn't care about going backward to polish things. If they can put a band aid on the game and customers still buy DLC then they'll stick to their formula.

    Say what now? How about all the Old World updates they have been rolling out and still are? They could have easily left them the way they were.

    On another note: CeltiK is a true champ. I admire his dedication and persistence fixing his mods time-and-time again after they eventually broke again. Especially considering the time it must have taken him (anyone who has modded knows what I'm talking about), whilst dealing with the sheer amount of **** he got from the community in the meantime. One of the downsides of having a popular mod I guess; it attracts all kinds of people. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of the reason why CeltiK decided to reach out to CA.

    It's too bad CA didn't take the effort to atleast repond to CeltiK. I can imagine this could eventually also contribute to one's decision of leaving the scene.
  • unknown_oneunknown_one Junior Member Posts: 141Registered Users
    CeltiK was the best modder the total war games had.

    His ai mods were a huge upgrade from vanilla and vastly improved campaign experience.

    Sad to hear that CA ignored him.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,659Registered Users
    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,660Registered Users
    I'd be gutted. I remember someone making a 'better water' mod for Skyrim, everyone proclaimed the guy a genius and called the Skyrim devs lazy. Oh yeah.. they only created a full world with an almost dizzying amount of character, features and missions.. cheers for the improvement on the water though.

    Anything to do with AI usually has a placebo affect. only a guess though, this guy could turn CA's AI into HAL for all I know.. I'm just guessing he didn't.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,017Registered Users

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    People like you are probably the reason that he made his mod private. So much for the publicity.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,507Registered Users

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    How would you know that it wasn't a serious offer?
    CeltiK has worked his ass off making improvements to the game, fixing bugs, helping other modders and players alike as well as tracking down the source of bugs.
    Baseless accusations like that are one reason why less and less people do stuff like that and/or are leaving gaming communities.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,660Registered Users
    Sagranda said:

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    How would you know that it wasn't a serious offer?
    CeltiK has worked his ass off making improvements to the game, fixing bugs, helping other modders and players alike as well as tracking down the source of bugs.
    Baseless accusations like that are one reason why less and less people do stuff like that and/or are leaving gaming communities.
    Do you do a professional job? Are you part of a team that's built something up and had years of experience with that particular system? Not including the professional qualifications you have. Now, imagine if an amateur walked in and said:



  • unknown_oneunknown_one Junior Member Posts: 141Registered Users
    edited August 13

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    Man, you're ignorant.

    He improved the AI tenfold. CA should respond to someone making their game better in something they seem to struggle themselves.

    CeltiK did a lot for this community.
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • LordCommanderLordCommander Posts: 957Registered Users
    As the legendarily bad interview with the modder Darth Vader demonstrates, you have to be wary of amateur tinkerers when they associate with your company officially. So, let's say CA accepts his help and institutes his work into the game. What capacity is he working there? Is he under NDA for their future projects? At 'no cost' he's not covered by any of the plethera of work rules that bind employees.


    He improved the AI tenfold. CA should respond to someone making their game better in something they seem to struggle themselves.

    Haha sure he did. Maybe he should work for a company and find out how the real world operates.

  • unknown_oneunknown_one Junior Member Posts: 141Registered Users
    Haha Xd.

    Maybe you should have played with his mods before commenting.

    Oh wait, obviously the campaign and battle AI in total war games were always insanely good. How could I forget. There were never any issues with it.

  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,660Registered Users




    The battle AI cannot be changed by mods.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,659Registered Users
    Sagranda said:

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    How would you know that it wasn't a serious offer?
    CeltiK has worked his ass off making improvements to the game, fixing bugs, helping other modders and players alike as well as tracking down the source of bugs.
    Baseless accusations like that are one reason why less and less people do stuff like that and/or are leaving gaming communities.
    I'm also responsible for the Dinosaurs going extinct, Batman vs Superman, and Nemo getting lost.

    There's two versions to this story, OP's where Celtik offered to do the work, and yours where he offered to point out where the bugs are. Those are two radically different stories. I responded to the OP's version. Your version is more reasonable.

    @davedave1124 I'd equate it (OP's version) to telling a tradie how to do his job. Big Faux Pass.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,933Registered Users
    edited August 13

    CA doesn't care about going backward to polish things. If they can put a band aid on the game and customers still buy DLC then they'll stick to their formula.

    Say what now? How about all the Old World updates they have been rolling out and still are? They could have easily left them the way they were.

    On another note: CeltiK is a true champ. I admire his dedication and persistence fixing his mods time-and-time again after they eventually broke again. Especially considering the time it must have taken him (anyone who has modded knows what I'm talking about), whilst dealing with the sheer amount of **** he got from the community in the meantime. One of the downsides of having a popular mod I guess; it attracts all kinds of people. I wouldn't be surprised if this is part of the reason why CeltiK decided to reach out to CA.

    It's too bad CA didn't take the effort to atleast repond to CeltiK. I can imagine this could eventually also contribute to one's decision of leaving the scene.
    How about the bugs that are still in the game? Some of which exist in more than one total war title. This thread isn't about updates, it's about in game bugs.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Posts: 2,958Registered Users
    edited August 13





    The battle AI cannot be changed by mods.

    the campaign AI can and even the battle AI CeltiK improved somewhat by editing the only battle AI thing that he had
    namely a setting that tells the AI how to use units

    like some mage lords being set for the AI to use them like they were melee lords or hybrid lords being set as mage only for the AI

    and as an aside in 3K both battle and campaign AI can be changed so hopefully in WH3 as well

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,507Registered Users

    Sagranda said:

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    How would you know that it wasn't a serious offer?
    CeltiK has worked his ass off making improvements to the game, fixing bugs, helping other modders and players alike as well as tracking down the source of bugs.
    Baseless accusations like that are one reason why less and less people do stuff like that and/or are leaving gaming communities.
    I'm also responsible for the Dinosaurs going extinct, Batman vs Superman, and Nemo getting lost.

    There's two versions to this story, OP's where Celtik offered to do the work, and yours where he offered to point out where the bugs are. Those are two radically different stories. I responded to the OP's version. Your version is more reasonable.
    That's because the OP misunderstood of what was going on.
    The thing is, it doesn't matter. Even if CeltiK would have offered to work on the bugs for free it still could have been a serious offer from him, reasonable or not. It wouldn't even have been the first time a modder or community member would have offered the devs (in general, not only CA) to do such work and meant it. That CA, or any dev for that matter, wouldn't necessarily respond to such an offer is self-explanatory.
    What you did though was to accuse him of "solely fishing for attention", which was highly unwarranted.
    blaat said:





    The battle AI cannot be changed by mods.

    the campaign AI can and even the battle AI CeltiK improved somewhat by editing the only battle AI thing that he had
    namely a setting that tells the AI how to use units

    like some mage lords being set for the AI to use them like they were melee lords or hybrid lords being set as mage only for the AI

    and as an aside in 3K both battle and campaign AI can be changed so hopefully in WH3 as well
    Exactly.
    There's some improvement that can be made, even if it is just cleaning up the mess in the tables that concern the battles.

    That one can mod both AIs in 3K is interesting to know. And I agree with you, hopefully we will see this for WH3 as well. Though it's hard to say if we will see active AI modders at this point of time for the game.
    I doubt that CeltiK will come back to "active modding" on this for quite some time and MINOS, while currently back, has his very long pauses in between.
    The SFO team also has improvements to the AI (with some help from CeltiK), but they haven't released a Submod solely for the AI.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,659Registered Users
    I didn't say "solely fishing for attention". What I said was "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself". It's there in the quote.

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    An offer which at best has no chance of being accepted and at worst is insulting isn't a serious offer.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,660Registered Users
    blaat said:





    The battle AI cannot be changed by mods.

    the campaign AI can and even the battle AI CeltiK improved somewhat by editing the only battle AI thing that he had
    namely a setting that tells the AI how to use units

    like some mage lords being set for the AI to use them like they were melee lords or hybrid lords being set as mage only for the AI

    and as an aside in 3K both battle and campaign AI can be changed so hopefully in WH3 as well
    "I just stepped in to clarify that he doesn't mod the AI"

    This is why you won't see CA communicating about certain issue. It's a waste of time, they state that their AI cannot be modded, yet people continue believing it.

    Changing a lord to act exactly like another lord is not going to improve the AI.
  • SagrandaSagranda Posts: 1,507Registered Users

    I didn't say "solely fishing for attention". What I said was "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself". It's there in the quote.

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    An offer which at best has no chance of being accepted and at worst is insulting isn't a serious offer.
    "It was no serious offer" in combination with "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself" (especially that part) pretty much states that it was just to grab attention to himself.

    Also, there's a chance that such an offer gets accepted, to a degree, since devs have worked with modders before to solve problems within games. It's seldom that there's 0% chance when it comes to such things.
    Doesn't change that it could have been meant serious. Heck, people do make serious offers about the most unreasonable things and in the most unreasonable ways every day.
    "Many players cannot help approaching a game as an optimization puzzle. What gives the most reward for the least risk? What strategy provides the highest chance – or even a guaranteed chance – of success? Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."

    - Soren Johnson
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 14,659Registered Users
    edited August 13
    Sagranda said:

    I didn't say "solely fishing for attention". What I said was "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself". It's there in the quote.

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    An offer which at best has no chance of being accepted and at worst is insulting isn't a serious offer.
    "It was no serious offer" in combination with "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself" (especially that part) pretty much states that it was just to grab attention to himself.

    Also, there's a chance that such an offer gets accepted, to a degree, since devs have worked with modders before to solve problems within games. It's seldom that there's 0% chance when it comes to such things.
    Doesn't change that it could have been meant serious. Heck, people do make serious offers about the most unreasonable things and in the most unreasonable ways every day.
    I didn't say "It was no serious offer" I said "It's not a serious offer".

    An attention grab is the most logical explanation for someone who "offered hinself to fix the bugs of the game at no cost" which is what I was responding to. Sure, it could be many things, but that offer has no reasonable chance of acceptance, and a good chance of being insulting.

    Remember my comment was made in response to OP's context, context that you claim to be false. Under a different context you could argue different things, but under the context OP presented? That wasn't a serious offer.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • MasariusMasarius Senior Member Posts: 554Registered Users
    Of course a little bit publicity doesn't hurt - intended or not.

    As for OP:

    As much as I like mod and a little bit modding myself: Modding is not coding. However this doesn't mean those changes aren't good. For all I know they make sense, hence I use them sometimes. It is good work, but no need for glorification.

    There was in fact a mod-author which was officially hired by CA. Not so long ago, after the rome 2 release.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/154884/mitch-joins-ca

    Mitch did it. Well deserved I did like to say.

    To work with a company requires some other/additional skills and we don't know if Celitk has them.





    Till shade is gone,
    till water is gone,
    into the Shadow with the teeth bared,
    screaming defiance with the last breath,
    to spit into Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day
  • drizzlynewtdrizzlynewt Posts: 96Registered Users

    Sagranda said:

    I didn't say "solely fishing for attention". What I said was "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself". It's there in the quote.

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    An offer which at best has no chance of being accepted and at worst is insulting isn't a serious offer.
    "It was no serious offer" in combination with "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself" (especially that part) pretty much states that it was just to grab attention to himself.

    Also, there's a chance that such an offer gets accepted, to a degree, since devs have worked with modders before to solve problems within games. It's seldom that there's 0% chance when it comes to such things.
    Doesn't change that it could have been meant serious. Heck, people do make serious offers about the most unreasonable things and in the most unreasonable ways every day.
    I didn't say "It was no serious offer" I said "It's not a serious offer".
    That has got to be the single most pedantic thing I've ever seen someone say on this forum. "I didn't say that thing you said I said, I said something worded slightly differently which meant the exact same thing!"
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Posts: 3,660Registered Users

    Sagranda said:

    I didn't say "solely fishing for attention". What I said was "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself". It's there in the quote.

    Why would CA respond to that? It's not a serious offer. It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself, evidently it worked.

    An offer which at best has no chance of being accepted and at worst is insulting isn't a serious offer.
    "It was no serious offer" in combination with "It's him getting a bit of publicity for himself" (especially that part) pretty much states that it was just to grab attention to himself.

    Also, there's a chance that such an offer gets accepted, to a degree, since devs have worked with modders before to solve problems within games. It's seldom that there's 0% chance when it comes to such things.
    Doesn't change that it could have been meant serious. Heck, people do make serious offers about the most unreasonable things and in the most unreasonable ways every day.
    I didn't say "It was no serious offer" I said "It's not a serious offer".
    That has got to be the single most pedantic thing I've ever seen someone say on this forum. "I didn't say that thing you said I said, I said something worded slightly differently which meant the exact same thing!"
    TBF it wasn't a serious offer. In his mind it may have been, but, in the world of grownups it was bordering on odd. It would be better if he knew it wasn't serious and just wanted the publicity - at least there's a reason. To believe taking the **** out of a companies standards and then saying 'don't worry - I'll sort it out' is just painfully lacking in emotional intelligence as well as not understanding how actual businesses work.
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