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Greenskins Updated Missing Characters and Units

SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
edited November 2020 in General Discussion
This is the eighth in a series of Posts I plan on doing on a complete visual guide to factions and their missing units.

Links to the rest of this series



Premise

I've formatted this similar to how you may have seen them before, however I am doing this all from scratch to remaster the visual guides everyone has been drawing from; bringing them up to full speed with the latest DLC, fixing any issues that may have existed in them (such as missing models or artwork) and expanding them to include characters and units that were overlooked in the posts you may have seen before.

That being said, some characters or units never had models and have no noteworthy art that I could find. In the event of a missing model or artwork I have attempted to compensate with a similar model, another art piece, a screenshot I took in game from a mod or, in the worst-case scenario: a bootleg model *shudders*



Introduction


When discussing what should be included, people tend to focus on getting brand new unit types rather than getting another variant of a unit we already have in game. Most of the time I would agree with this, but when it comes to the Greenskins, I personally think they should be the most varied and colourful faction in the game. I’m a big advocate for working towards eventually getting a well-defined Forest Goblin, Savage Orc, Night Goblin and Orc roster, all under the umbrella of “the Greenskins”.

These Lords, heroes and units would fill a similar niche: but would have different attributes, price points and so on (Also we should get tech that makes Savage Orcs, Gobbos Etc more viable). This would allow for Lords like Da Great Green Prophet, Skarsnik and Snagla Grobspit to actually field thematically appropriate armies/lords and would be a great step forward into making the Greenskins a more fun, varied and engaging race.

Many of the items on this list are variants of a unit we’ve already seen; however they could be useful in giving Skarsnik and Savage Orcs their own front line of spears, unique regiments, etc. Most factions have enough content remaining for 1-1.5 more Lord Packs worth but Da Boyz over here have enough for about 3-4 more Lord Packs.

Please Read Below

This post was a Little to long to fit, so all of the optional information on the Units that is usually just below the images will now be placed in the comment directly bellow the Original Post. Sorry for the inconvenience.


Missing Characters












(optional) Info on these Characters and how they could work in WH2
Borgut Facebeater
Borgut is Grimgor’s right Hand Orc and one of the Mightiest Black Orcs in existence.

It is rare that Grimgor is impressed by another warriors prowess and rarer still that he does not just kill that warrior outright to avoid the competition, but he found an exception in Borgut. Grumgor grew weary of bullying the local Skaven of Clan Moulder and was setting his eyes on greater horizons, when he heard of another Orc Warboss who was causing carnage down in Hellpit. Grimgor went to see what all the fuss was about and When he arrived, he was struck, not only by how Borgut tore through the Skaven ranks with his big Choppa, but what pleased him most was the unbridled glee Borgut took in doing so.

Grimgor had found a kindred spirit and when he finally left on his quest for greener pastures, he did so with his new loyal companion in toe.


Gitilla da Hunter
Gitilla grow up amongst the wind-swept steppes of the Wolf Lands; a barren part of the world where there was little to loot and not much for a Gobbo to do aside from survive. Young Gatilla dreamt of more, he wanted to see the world and gain fame beyond what any Goblin could ever hope to achieve. He gathered other like minded Wolf Riders and set out through mad dog pass in pursuit of greatness and a bright future for himself.

Since his great journey, He and his mob “Da Howlerz” have seen much more of the Warhammer world than any other Goblin could have ever hoped to see. He has acted as scouts for raiding boar boyz, took part in the Stunty wars, raided the Moot and even Crossed paths with Wurrzag, who is the one that dubbed him “Da Hunter” in reference to his ceaseless pursuit of his glorious destiny.

Gatilla would one day return to his homeland and it is here where his destiny finally became clear. The Mighty and accomplished Wolf Chieftain will unite the tribes of his homeland into a single hunting back and sweep all before him like the Great Wolf Khans of Legend.


Gorbad Ironclaw
Gorbad is the most infamous Orc Warboss in history, whose Waaaagh! Was so powerful and relentless that his forces almost single handedly destroyed the Empire of Man.

The Empire we see in Total War Warhammer today is not the Empire that has always been. For a period of over 750 years, the Empire was engaged in a great civil war for succession, with three different dynasties from 3 different provinces vying for supremacy. It was during this period of great turmoil and disunion that a storm Brewed in the Badlands…one that would drown the Empire in Fire and blood. Through his cunning and strength, Gorbad was able to eliminate or confederate all of his potential enemies and unite them against their old Dwarven foe. Such was the size of the Green tide at Gorbad's command, that he Swept the Dawi back into hiding behind the Impenetrable gates of their Karak's. It is said that he had the Dwarfs in such a full retreat that the Orc Warboss was able to walk right up to the gates of Karaz-a-Karak and Knock at the door, which to this day retains dents from his mighty Iron Gauntlet.

Gorbad knew that attempting to besiege a Dwarven Karak would be as arduous as it was stupid and he needed a target to direct his newly formed army at or they would lose the will to fight with him; so, he set his sights on the Empire of Man and sent his forces barrelling down Blackfire pass.

The chaos and destruction that Gorbad wrought upon the Empire was beyond measure: he ravaged the countryside, Sacked the City of Nuln, leaving half of it destroyed; he committed a genocide on the people of Solland, so terrible, that the province ceased to exist! As he set his sights on Altdorf, the Empire sent out all their cavalry, in an attempt to halt the Orcs progress, but to no avail. Gorbad personally killed the Elector count of Wissenland, Solland and Averland and his Waaagh! would reach its climax at the walls of Altdorf, where the Greenskins are forced to sit in for a long and gruelling siege. The Greenskins had already horded riches beyond their wildest dreams and wrought more carnage than any of them had ever seen, so many became war weary and didn’t want to waste their time sitting in their hands, waiting for the People of Altdorf to starve. In a last-ditch effort, Gorbad unleashed a group of Wyvern's upon the city that caused great carnage and even devoured the Emperor himself, but it would not save his campaign, as to many had deserted and to much of their gains had been lost.

In the end, Gordbad sets back to the Badlands through Blackfire pass and Is cornered by the Dwarfs of Karaz-a-Karak. His force is decimated, scattered to the wind, but the Warboss himself is never found, no one knows what truly became of the mighty Gorbad or His faithful mount Gnarla.


Gorfang Rotgut
Gorfang “Troll Eater” is the Chieftain of the "Red Fang" and "Broken Toof" tribes and the current Ruler of Black Crag, formally the Dwarven Keep, known as “Karak Drazh”. The Red Fangs are currently the most powerful Orc tribe in the northern Badlands, having subjugated most of their local competitors and allied themselves with Skarsnik and the Night Goblins of Karak Eight Peaks. Relations between the two are uneasy as you might expect between any Greenskin tribes, but together they dominate and pose a serious threat to the Dwarf Karak's that remain in the area, whose strength dwindles by the day.

Gorfang himself is an Orc of immense size and strength; said to be as large as an Ogre, with a blade as hefty as a Squig Gobba. He lost an eye at “the Battle of the Jaws” and wears a patch to cover his wound. His feats range from Besieging Barak Varr to defeating Queek and his second in command Ska in single combat and routing their forces back from whence they came. In his most infamous exploit: Gorfang infiltrated the Dwarven hold of Karak Azul while the great king “Kazador Dragonslayer” was out on one of his Goblin hunts. The raiders were eventually driven out, but not before they spirited away much of Kazador's family and violated his son by shaving him head to toe; tattooing him with crude Orcish glyph's and nailing his hands and feet to his father’s throne.

Since then, a great rivalry has brewed between Gorfang and Kazador, who laments that his kin still suffer at the bottom of the Black Crag dungeons and has offered his entire fortune for Gorfang’s head and the safe return of his kin.


Grokka Goreaxe
Gorkka is a Savage Orc Warboss who is thought to be the reincarnation of Gork himself. After consuming an entire patch of Bloodfungus mushrooms, the Orc berserker flew into a frenzy; ravaging the Drakwald so relentlessly that he quickly spurred many Savage Orc tribes into a mighty Waaaaagh! That clashed with the forces of Chaos and the Empire alike.

Gorkka eventually crossed blades with the Deamons of Nurgle; he leapt deep into the fray like a whirlwind, cutting down enemies left and right. Gorkka suffered blows to his arms, chest and even face that would felled a lesser Orc, but he didn’t so much as flinch and his warriors drew from his strength. It was only when “Eogric the Vile” came thundering down the battlefield through the ranks of the chaos army that Gorkka met his match. Eogric decapitated the Savage Orc, yet miraculously Gorkka fought on! Slaying Norscan after Norscan before Egoric split his headless body in two.

Grom the Paunch
Grom of the Misty Mountains was not only one of the Largest and most powerful Goblins to have ever lived, but also one of the best Greenskin Warbosses to have ever lived, and the only one to have ever made a successful invasion of the distant lands of Ulthuan.

Grom came upon his greatness by accident when one day he decided to eat raw Troll meat. Trolls have extremely powerful regenerative properties, even in death and so the uncooked meat caused Grom to swell and boat to many times his original size and gain the regenerative abilities of a Troll himself. The Gobbo would never see his legs again but it was a small price to pay for what he had gained and all he would achieve. The Orcs of his tribe and those surrounding him would still not take him seriously and it was this innate prejudice against his people that he could endure no longer, he would show them what Goblins were capable of.

Because of what the troll meat had done to him, he was able to regenerate all but fatal blows that were thrown at him and so he set about fighting every Orc Big ‘un in his tribe by himself as none would be subservient to a mere Gobbo. Eventually though, Orc kind would learn their mistake and come to serve under him. Grom would lead one of the greatest Waaaagh’s ever to befall the Empire before pushing on through to Ulthuan. There he would terrorise the land of Yvresse before his forces were ultimately defeated and chased into the mountains by Eltharion the Warden of Tor Yvresse. After that great defeat, he disappears from the annals of history and no one has heard of him since.


Grumlok & Gazbag
Orcs and Goblins don’t often have a friendly relationship, since Orcs are the stronger (and often stupider) of the two, they tend to bully their smaller cousins around. In the case of Grumlog and Gazbag however, this was not so, as the two shared a mutual and powerful friendship. Together the Night Goblin Shaman and the Black Orc lead the Sun Boyz to wipe out and assimilate much of their competition.

The pair were swept up in one of Malekith’s many schemes when he wanted to light a fire under the Badlands and send the Greenskins to destroy the Dwarfs, making them unable to help their allies, the humans as chaos was destroying their Empire. Malekith thus had Grum and Gaz kidnapped and brought before him and he bequeathed them each with an amulet: One for Grumlock to boost his already brutal fighting skills and another for Gazbag that would elevate his magical abilities far beyond the primitive potential of your average Greenskin Shaman.

Almost the moment the pair returned, the Badlands were united under their leadership in a mighty Waaaagh! That brutally set upon the Dwarven realms all according to his plan.


Morglum Necksnapper
Morglum, like any Black Orc, is far sterner and more disciplined than your average Orc Boy and as such he is famous for his martial prowess, his short, to the point, battle cries and his terse tactical observations. With his second in command “Oglok the ‘Orrible” Morglum Famously routed the armies of Bretonnia at the Battle of Death Pass and Aided Gorfang Rotgut in his famous attack on Karak Azul.

Raknik Spiderclaw
Raknik is the Forest Goblin Great Shaman of the "Spiderclaw Tribe" and the self-proclaimed "Spider King". In the Year 2502 IC, A servant of the Chaos God Tzeentch manipulated Raknik and his tribe into attempting to kill Karl Franz and thus stop him being crowned Emperor. The Forest Goblins ambushed the young prince Franz as he and a group of Reiksguard were out on patrol. Franz and his retinue made a hasty retreat, but not before Franz personally slew one of the tribes Shamans and his Arachnarok Spider mount. This enraged Raknik and the rest of the tribe, as the forest Goblins perceive the Arachnarok's to be living Gods. Raknik swore revenge and over the next decade his tribe would grow to an immense size. The Spiderclaws became a true terror to the surrounding area and in the year 2517, they would make their move and rampage across the province of Reikland. Once again, the Great Shaman met on the field of battle With Karl Franz and he personally almost succeeded in killing the fledgling prince at the "Battle of Bloodpine Woods", but alas their enemy was to great and Forest Goblin forces were decimated that day; scattered back to the woods from whence they came.


Snagla Grobspit
Snagla is the most infamous Forest Goblin ever to terrorise the Woodlands of the old world. He and his Spider Riders “the Deff Creepers” were at the forefront of every Greenskin victory: charging headlong into ranks of Handgunners and smashing the enemy flanks; but where Snagla really excels is in his ability to use stealth: to strike unseen with his Gigantic Spider Riders, even when within a few feet of the enemy. It is with these talents that has led to his victory many times over in ambushes or raids on settlements.

Snagla originates from one of the many Forest Goblin tribes that reside within the Drakwald forest (middenland). His tribe lived on the outskirts of the forest and so they were one of the first to be destroyed when the Empire began a campaign to cleanse the land of these Greenskin infestations. Snagla and his gang “the Deff Creepers” were away from their camp at the time and returned to see their people butchered, their tribes Arachnarok Spider torn apart by cannonballs and their buildings burning or broken. The human invaders were making their way to “Black Pit” the most sacred of places to the Forest Goblins and so Snagla had not a moment to lose; He took the fangs of his clans Arachnarok and from them, fashioned a throwing spear and a great spiked club and then set out with his “Deff Creepers” to find other Goblin tribes and try to divert the humans away from their sacred Pit, or halt their advance all together.

He and his "Deff Creepers" lead the Goblins of the Drakwald to victory that day, slaughtering and scattering the Empire to the wind and he and his Spider Riders have roamed the vast forests of the Empire ever since, eager to avenge the death of their tribe and defend their people from eradication.



Generic Lords and Heroes














Missing Units





















Let me know what you think and don't be afraid to list something I missed.
Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
«13

Comments

  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    Unit information:

    Arachnarok Mount
    Mount for Goblin Shamans

    Colossal Squig
    The largest type of Squig in existence; said to dwell within the Vaults and the Grey Mountains. This could be a more melee focused alternative to the Arachnarok with Rampage and frenzy.

    Crooked Jabberz
    Skarsnik Exclusive, Night Goblin spear infantry, whose curved Halberds are designed to strike at Squig's around corners.

    Da Immortulz
    Grimgor's Black Orcs elite and his personal Bodyguard.

    Deaz Bad Boyz could be exclusive to Grimgor as a RoR or preferably a higher tier Black Orc unit. We are Currently lacking Black Orcs with a shield and Black Orcs who are Anti-Large, so they could fill one of those niches quite nicely.

    Drillaz Killaz
    Drilla and his Black Orcs joined the Crooked Moon with every intention of Usurping the stupid little Gobbo Skarsnik, seeing it as their right as Black Orcs to rule over a tribe of such renown. But after serving under the Night Goblins command, they soon realised that they were in the presence of true greatness; and with a steady diet of Fighting and a place in the front Line, Drilla and his Killaz became content in their position with the Great Schemma.

    Feral Spiders
    A low tier Scurvy dog esc unit for Forest Goblins.

    Gigantic Spider Riders
    Monstrous melee Cavalry that are a tier above spider Riders. Another option for the Forest Goblins and this would be the Main mount for Forest Goblin Lords.

    This unit has Stalk, Poison attacks, thick skin, causes fear and takes no penalties in forests.

    Goblin Spear Chukka
    Anti-Large Bolt Thrower artillery for the Greenskins, which could be a great edition, since they only have 2 armour piercing artillery pieces and they lack more specialised: Anti-infantry and Anti-large options at the minute.

    Mangler Squig
    Manglers are a pair of ravenous squig's chained together whose uncontrollable thrashing in every direction sends them crashing into (and sometimes straight through) the enemy lines. they are so out of control that the Night Goblins who ride them into battle rarely survive as the Squig's beat everything into a pulp.

    River Troll
    Troll variant with Aquatic, poison attacks and a breath attack (like throgg). These trolls could be fast Damage dealers who debuff the enemy (similar to Witch Elves).

    Rogue Idol
    A mighty magical construct built to honour one of the Greenskin gods; these statues are brought to life by Greenskin shamans and are able to brush off missile fire and crush enemies underfoot.

    Rogue idols could make for a more defensive version of the giant that lacks its weakness to missile fire. They would be heavily armoured tanks with magical attacks, more focused on support and absorbing damage than dealing it. They could give buffs to nearby allies, similar to the Mortis Engine/Coven Throne.

    Since Rogue Idols are fuelled by the winds of magic (and will crumble when the there isn’t enough of it) perhaps they could be stronger/give stronger buffs, the more Winds of Magic you have. This would stop them giving being too OP and could add a balancing act to using magic (if you use up all you’re reserves then it's destroyed).

    Ruglud’s Armoured Orcs
    A famous band of Armoured Orc Mercenaries who have even been known to have been hired by the Empire from time to time. Ruglud their leader, was once a mighty Orc Warboss who was defeated after many successful raids on Dwarf and Imperial settlements. His defeat brought shame upon his tribe and he was chased out of it, with nothing but his most loyal retinue at his side. The Group wandered the Badlands until they came across the site of a battle that had raged not long past between the Dwarves and Chaos Dwarves.

    Bloodied armour and weapons were scattered across the stone floor and it is these tools that the Orcs would use to define themselves and gain their fame. They are the only Greenskins known to be clad in Dwarven armour and wield Crossbows.

    Savage Orc Big Stabba
    A unit of Savage orcs who have massive Spears/Javelins. They could either act as Anti-Large missile units or act like Oda Ashigaru, with oversized spears that still function as a spear frontline but can dish out a great deal of damage and lack a shield (in keeping with the Savage Orc Theme)

    Snotlings
    Snotlings are the stupid annoying little cousins of the Goblins. On Table top they were one of those swarm units and in WH2 they could be a degrading summonable units like the Skaven have.

    Snotling Pump Wagon
    Pump Wagons are little chariot like platforms that hold an whole crew of Snotlings. They have unbreakable and could function similar to Doomflayers: as smaller, faster Chariot alternatives (with an amazing charge bonus).

    Sometimes the Snotlings attach explosive spores to their Pump Wagons as well, so perhaps they could have them as a missile attack or have a Pump Wagon variant that acts like a bloater and can Kamikaze itself into a group of enemies (they are prone to steer out of control so they might end up hitting your own units)

    Squig Gobba
    The goblins chain up these oversized Squig's and pour all kinds of reactive unstable concoctions into its stomach which broils like a thick acidic soup. They then full its mouth with smaller Squig's and it fires them at the enemy lines.

    This could be a great Anti-Infantry counterpart to the Spear Chukka. It would be armour piercing/sundering or perhaps poisonous. It is said that the reactive brew floating around their stomach can cause them to explode, so perhaps if it takes too much damage or is engaged in Melee you could run the risk of it blowing up.

    Stone Troll
    A Troll variant with Heavy armour (scaly Skin +5 on Table Top) and Magic Resistance. Of the three Troll Variants, the Stone Trolls could be the tanks, soaking up damage and brushing off missile fire. They should have the highest leadership of the bunch.
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,527
    edited August 2019
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,634
    I really don't want that much for Greenskins beyond new mechanics. I think their lord choices right now are fine, about the only thing I'd add is the Big Stabba' to give them a bit more anti-large. Other factions are far worse off in terms of lord and unit choices and need the attention more.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316

    I really don't want that much for Greenskins beyond new mechanics. I think their lord choices right now are fine, about the only thing I'd add is the Big Stabba' to give them a bit more anti-large. Other factions are far worse off in terms of lord and unit choices and need the attention more.

    The only ones that are truly worse off to me would be the beastmen and chaos. in My research the greenskins are one of the most lacking races in the game. not just in terms of sheer numbers, but in terms of mechanics and niches in their roster. they were kind of the horde faction before skaven outdid them so now they haven't got much going for them, by the by.

    Beastmen defo need some love and the empire have close to 20 named characters who are missing from the game but i think chaos could be a game 3 thing to deal with and that the greenskins are still up there.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,634

    I really don't want that much for Greenskins beyond new mechanics. I think their lord choices right now are fine, about the only thing I'd add is the Big Stabba' to give them a bit more anti-large. Other factions are far worse off in terms of lord and unit choices and need the attention more.

    The only ones that are truly worse off to me would be the beastmen and chaos. in My research the greenskins are one of the most lacking races in the game. not just in terms of sheer numbers, but in terms of mechanics and niches in their roster. they were kind of the horde faction before skaven outdid them so now they haven't got much going for them, by the by.

    Beastmen defo need some love and the empire have close to 20 named characters who are missing from the game but i think chaos could be a game 3 thing to deal with and that the greenskins are still up there.
    Greenskins need a ton of work when it comes to mechanics, but they're doing pretty good when it comes to lord choices.

    They already have what has become the new standard of four LLs and they have three options for generic lords. Compare this to the Empire (3 LL, 2 generic), Chaos (3 LL, 2 generic), Beastmen (3 LL, 2 generic), Bretonnia (3 LL, 2 generic) and the Wood Elves (2 LL, 2 generic) who are all worse off.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @Draculasaurus

    I was speaking in terms of overall deficiencies.

    the Wood Elves have almost every single possible unit of theirs already implemented. Bretonnia too. the Empire are doing poorly for lords but alright for units (only one unit remains from their 8th edition army book).

    in terms of lords, yes the greenskins are doing pretty well, but only when compared to others and not their true potential. Bretonnia doesn't really have other generic lord options, unless they introduced Damsels with Repanse or Brigands with Bertrand and reworked their faction somewhat (which is something im very much in favour of).

    Beastmen and chaos are criminally underrepresented, agreed.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,634

    @Draculasaurus

    I was speaking in terms of overall deficiencies.

    the Wood Elves have almost every single possible unit of theirs already implemented. Bretonnia too. the Empire are doing poorly for lords but alright for units (only one unit remains from their 8th edition army book).

    in terms of lords, yes the greenskins are doing pretty well, but only when compared to others and not their true potential. Bretonnia doesn't really have other generic lord options, unless they introduced Damsels with Repanse or Brigands with Bertrand and reworked their faction somewhat (which is something im very much in favour of).

    Beastmen and chaos are criminally underrepresented, agreed.

    "True potential" doesn't matter much to me, I want equity among the factions before we start adding extras. Also, it seems the Greenskins are primarily missing variants of units they already have and I just have a hard time getting super worked up about those.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    @Draculasaurus

    I get that, thats why i mentioned that in the introduction to my post.

    but even if we ignore the variants, some of these are still necessary inclusions. the greenskins right now are supposed to be an all rounder faction because their units are cheep and they function as a horde, rush army faction. problem is that power creep has done them a disservice and the skaven outshine them in every way as a horde faction (if their roster stayed as it is, game 3 with the Ogre Kingdoms and all the chaos would just kill the greenskins dead)

    so with power creep in mind, we need to bring them up a bit which means more Anti infantry and Anti Large options for them, more spears, more utility in general.

    Right now they only have the Arachnarok and giant as a big monsters, so the colossal squig and Rogue idol would help with their coverage in that department.

    Also savage orcs have literally no generic lord choices so thats an issue.

    id say there is enough here, even if you arent on board with getting more variety in there, from a pragmatic balance point of view they still need alot of this if they're going to become viable again and survive the end times.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    @Draculasaurus

    oh yeah, also, couldn't the Stone and rock trolls also help flesh out Throggs roster? making an all monster roster more viable for him?
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 3,482
    I feel like some of the units on the list should only be RoR, not normal units. The immortulz for example are only Grimgors personal mob, not a full army.

    Thtat being said, it's a great list, I've enjoyed all of them so far! Hope we get all of these units in game, but an orc big boss of some kind is the most critical IMO.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,388

    @Draculasaurus
    Bretonnia too. the Empire are doing poorly for lords but alright for units (only one unit remains from their 8th edition army book).

    I'm not sure how you come to this conclusion...

    The Empire is missing the Empire Archers, the Huntsmen, Celestial Hurricanum and Empire Knights with great weapons (aka White Wolfs).

    Not counting missing generic characters like the Technicus.

    Now I don't would necessary call them "needed" more "nice to have" but still...
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Registered Users Posts: 4,745
    The Greenskins are basically 3 different races mashed together which is why thete are so many missing things. I feel like they should have been seperated out in Fantasy a bit. Savage Orcs and Forest Goblins in their own race. Nightgoblins and all the squig units as their own race. Everything else in the Greenskins race.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @SiWI

    I came to that conclusion because of this:


    8th Edition Empire army book Summery

    From what I've seen (I checked last night) the Knights of the White wolf aren't in the 8th edition army book for the empire. not in the sense that they have their own page with lore and rules anyway. and they arent mentioned in the summery.

    I was referring to the celestial hurricanum when i said 'only one unit left'.

    Im going to double check right now.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,388

    @SiWI

    I came to that conclusion because of this:


    8th Edition Empire army book Summery
    .

    the problem comes from the fact that this list doesn't list options.
    This way bows as weapons aka archers and huntsmen are missing and the gretweapon Empire knights are not listed.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @SiWI

    Archers are listed in a very small section under "State Troops". the Huntsmen are in the Summery. Knights of the White wolf aren't there aside from one picture of a model, alongside the other horse units.

    However: Archers and huntsmen are both variants of missile units and we already have Crossbows and handgunners.

    When i was talking to Draculasaurus, we were discussing Variants VS actual new units. Im in favour of the Huntsmans inclusion, however, they are a variant of a unit whose niche is already filled, which kind of goes against the context of our conversation.

    Again: I must stress that I am not trying to diminish the Empires need for new content, I'm only defending the Greenskins need for new content and pointing it out via comparison.

    (I'm also probably going to cover the empire next, ive already been working on it)
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,634

    @Draculasaurus

    oh yeah, also, couldn't the Stone and rock trolls also help flesh out Throggs roster? making an all monster roster more viable for him?

    I'm generally not in favor or that sort of thing, I prefer fewer units shared between factions. Not that Norsca can't use some more stuff, but it already sucks how much of their roster (warhounds, manticores, chaos dragons, giants) is borrowed from other factions.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,388
    edited August 2019

    @SiWI

    Archers are listed in a very small section under "State Troops". the Huntsmen are in the Summery.

    However: Archers and huntsmen are both variants of missile units and we already have Crossbows and handgunners.

    When i was talking to Draculasaurus, we were discussing Variants VS actual new units. Im in favour of the Huntsmans inclusion, however, they are a variant of a unit whose niche is already filled, which kind of goes against the context of our conversation.

    So for you archers and crossbowmen and handgunners are the "same unit" for you?

    Mkoay.

    Personally I could see the archer being redundant if you have the huntsmen but to say that the archers and crossbow men are the same unit but "variants" seem a bit strange to me.

    Especially since you list river trolls here which are as the name says, trolls but from a river area.
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  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @SiWI

    No, for me Crossbows, Bows and Huntsman (literally bows again) are variants on the same kind of unit.

    you are picking up the remnants of a conversation you weren't involved in and now you are blindly arguing without the proper context...

    what did i say in my original post?

    "When discussing what should be included, people tend to focus on getting brand new unit types rather than getting another variant of a unit we already have in game. Most of the time I would agree with this, but when it comes to the Greenskins, I personally think they should be the most varied and colourful faction in the game. I’m a big advocate for working towards eventually getting a well-defined Forest Goblin, Savage Orc, Night Goblin and Orc roster, all under the umbrella of “the Greenskins”.

    These Lords, heroes and units would fill a similar niche: but would have different attributes, price points and so on (Also we should get tech that makes Savage Orcs, Gobbos Etc more viable). This would allow for Lords like Da Great Green Prophet, Skarsnik and Snagla Grobspit to actually field thematically appropriate armies/lords and would be a great step forward into making the Greenskins a more fun, varied and engaging race."


    Im not against variants here. Draculasaurus is. (Draculasaurus, please ignore this, im not attempting to say anything bad about you or be presumptuous or anything, im just trying to give SiWI context)
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,388
    edited August 2019

    @SiWI

    No, for me Crossbows, Bows and Huntsman (literally bows again) are variants on the same kind of unit.

    you are picking up the remnants of a conversation you weren't involved in and now you are blindly arguing without the proper context...

    what did i say in my original post?

    "When discussing what should be included, people tend to focus on getting brand new unit types rather than getting another variant of a unit we already have in game. Most of the time I would agree with this, but when it comes to the Greenskins, I personally think they should be the most varied and colourful faction in the game. I’m a big advocate for working towards eventually getting a well-defined Forest Goblin, Savage Orc, Night Goblin and Orc roster, all under the umbrella of “the Greenskins”.

    These Lords, heroes and units would fill a similar niche: but would have different attributes, price points and so on (Also we should get tech that makes Savage Orcs, Gobbos Etc more viable). This would allow for Lords like Da Great Green Prophet, Skarsnik and Snagla Grobspit to actually field thematically appropriate armies/lords and would be a great step forward into making the Greenskins a more fun, varied and engaging race."


    Im not against variants here. Draculasaurus is. (Draculasaurus, please ignore this, im not attempting to say anything bad about you or be presumptuous or anything)
    I just correcting the statement that the Empire "has one unit left in the Armybook".

    Which was made by you not Draculasaurus.
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  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @SiWI

    "if think the Huntsman and crossbows are the same thing then that makes half of your list here empty, because most of these are the same thing. even the River Trolls are just trolls but they stay near water, its in the name"

    Yes...I Know that...that is why, in Draculasaurus's First comment to me, he said:

    "I really don't want that much for Greenskins beyond new mechanics. I think their lord choices right now are fine, about the only thing I'd add is the Big Stabba' to give them a bit more anti-large. Other factions are far worse off in terms of lord and unit choices and need the attention more."


    To which I objected...because im in favour of variants..............

    the reason I said: "the Empire are doing poorly for lords but alright for units (only one unit remains from their 8th edition army book)" Is because the Celestial Hurricanum is the only unique unit left from their actual 8th Edition army book that is not A variant. (even then, it is something of a variant)

    I was not saying the Empire only has 1 unit left on the whole. I was not saying the empire had no variants left. I was saying the Empire. in their army book. only has 1 unit or so left that isn't a variant and has an actual page with rules/is in the summery of the actual army book itself.

    Do you understand now? or do you want me to go through it again?
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,388

    @SiWI

    Yes...I Know that...that is why, in Draculasaurus's First comment to me, he said:

    "I really don't want that much for Greenskins beyond new mechanics. I think their lord choices right now are fine, about the only thing I'd add is the Big Stabba' to give them a bit more anti-large. Other factions are far worse off in terms of lord and unit choices and need the attention more."


    To which I objected...because im in favour of variants..............

    the reason I said: "the Empire are doing poorly for lords but alright for units (only one unit remains from their 8th edition army book)" Is because the Celestial Hurricanum is the only unique unit left from their actual 8th Edition army book that is not A variant. (even then, it is something of a variant)

    I was not saying the Empire only has 1 unit left on the whole. I was not saying the empire had no variants left. I was saying the Empire. in their army book. only has 1 unit or so left that isn't a variant and has an actual page with rules/is in the summery of the actual army book itself.

    Do you understand now? or do you want me to go through it again?
    You can turn and whine all you want but "the empire has one unit left in the armybook" was a wrong statement unless with the most arbitrary way of counting units you try to apply here.
    And I frankly don't care what gymnastics you try to pull in order for you to justify your statement.
    The. Empire. Has. More. Then. One. Armybook. Unit. Left.

    I mean in order for your argument to work, you need to sell handgunners and archers as the "same kind of unit".
    Reflect on that.

    Besides. even if I would buy your argument, your statement would still be wrong because of the huntsmen.
    They are not even a core unit and hence per definition not the "same kind of unit" unless for you all "range" units are the same, which I don't believe you do.

    And like the Celeastium there are separate entry on the list.
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  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    @SiWI

    I am doing nothing of the sort. you have ignored the context of the conversation between myself and someone else and assumed i made a wrong statement when i didnt.

    you say its arbitrary and yet, that kind of specificity was appropriate in the conversation i was having.

    Bows, Crossbows and Archers are different spins on the same kind of weapon. Handgunners are a different spin on the same kind of unit as Bows, crossbows and archers. they are all missile units. some have stalk, some fire bullets and perhaps fire more in a straight line than others, but ultimately at least 3 out of 4 of those units are almost identical. especially since the empire must be using Bronze or metal bolts and a more Chinese esc crossbow considering the shape, distance and arc. (most early european crossbows were inferior at range because of the mechanism, Bolts etc).

    Night Goblin Halberds without a shield, Big stabba's and Goblins with spears and a shield actually have more variety between them than archers huntsman and Crossbows because of their different effects, quality, functionality etc.

    Im not sure what you are really attempting to say here. you started out with a false assumption and now you are trying to pick apart the minutia but im still not wrong.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @SiWI

    My comment has disappeared because i tried to edit it, it should be back in a minute. what i was going to say is that:

    My ultimate point with that was that this list is ultimately justified and that the greenskins are in more dire need of an update and more units than the other factions (like the Empire) are. perhaps not in the greater picture, if we include other sources such as forgeworld, older editions or units that are purely in lore. But, especially if we are just going by what they need in terms of niches that arent currently filled and stuff that is in their 8th edition army book (because i know people such as yourself care about that one specific source oh so much) then the greenskins are missing alot more.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,952
    @SeanJeanquoi

    You've got to do a better job splitting apart Character Units from missing units. The Imortalz are not a Unit type, they're a unit of Black Orks and Black Orks are already in the game. Same can be said for Ruglugs Armored Orks, Crooked Jabberz and Drilla Killa.

    As for Missing Units, most everyone agrees only units missing from the 8th edition rule books can be considered "missing" anything above and beyond that are units Games Workshop published rules for or made models for that CA could possibly add.

    I made a post about all the units (that I know of) they could possibly add and where the units comes from. I didn't do all possible LL's.

    Here's a cut and paste of that list.

    Lizardmen

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Gor-Rok (8E Lizardmen)
    Nakkai The Wanderer (No Rules/8E Lizardmen)
    Oxyotl (8E Lizardmen)
    Tetto'eko (8E Lizardmen)
    Chakax The Eternity Warden (8E Lizardmen)

    Generic Lords
    Slann - Life, Fire, Metal, Beasts, Shadow, Death (8E Lizardmen)

    Units
    Razordon Hunting Pack (8E Lizardmen)
    Troglodon & Skink Oracle (8E Lizardmen)
    Dread Saurian (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Coatl (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Arcanodon (6E Lustria)
    Great Wyrm (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Thunder Lizard (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Feral Troglodon (Invented/8E Lizardmen)
    Ancient Razordon (Invented/8E Lizardmen)

    Skaven

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Thanquol & Boneripper (7E Skaven & End Times IV: Thanquol Book 2)
    Throt The Unclean (7E Skaven)
    Ghoritch (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Skweel Gnawtooth (7E Skaven)
    Skreech Verminking (End Times IV: Thanquol Book 2)
    Deathmaster Snikch (7E Skaven)

    Generic Lords
    Master Mutator (6E Skaven)
    Master Assassin (6E Skaven & 6E Storm of Chaos)
    Plauge Pontifex (6E Lustria)
    Plague Lord (6E Skaven & 6E Lustria)
    Verminlord (7E Skaven)
    Verminlord - Corruptors, Deceivers, Warbringers, Warpseers(End Times IV: Thanquol Book 2)
    Exulted Verminlord (Monstrous Arcanum)

    Generic Heros
    Chieftain (7E Skaven)
    Master Moulder (6E Skaven)
    Harbingers of Mutation (6E Skaven)
    Eshin Sorcerer (6E Skaven & 6E Storm of Chaos)
    Festering Chantor (6E Skaven & 6E Lustria)
    Stinking Thing (6E Lustria)

    Units
    Giant Rats (7E Skaven)
    Clanrats w/Warp Grinders (7E Skaven)
    Poison Wind Mortars (7E Skaven)
    Wolf Rats (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Brood Horror (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Eshin Triad (6E Storm of Chaos)
    Rotten Rodents (6E Lustria)
    Puss Bags (6E Lustria)
    Frothing Giant Rats (6E Lustria)
    Mad Rat Ogres (6E Lustria)
    Rat Spawn (6E Lustria)
    Throtlings (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Mutant Rat Ogres (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Armored Rat Ogres (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Augmented Rat Ogres (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Aberration (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Burrowing Behemoth (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Chimaerat (White Dwarf UK #311)
    Stormfiends "Melee" - Grinderfist, Shock-Gauntlets, Doom Flayer Gauntlets (End Times IV: Thanquol Book 2)
    Stormfiends "Ranged" - Ratling Cannaons, Warpfire Projectors, Windlaunchers (End Times IV: Thanquol Book 2)

    Mounts
    War-litter - Warlord (7E Skaven)
    Great Pox Rat - Warlord, Plague Priest (7E Skaven)
    Brood Horror - Warlord (Monstrous Arcanum)

    High Elves

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Eltharion The Grim (8E High Elves)
    Prince Imrik (6E High Elves? & End Times Vol III: Khaine)
    Finnubar (No Rules/8E High Elves)
    Caradryan (8E High Elves)
    Belannaer The Wise (7E High Elves)
    Korhil (8E High Elves)
    Sea Lord Aislinn (Storm of Chaos)

    Generic Lords
    Archmage - High, Light, Life, Heavens, Fire, Metal, Beasts, Shadow, Death (8E High Elves)
    Anointed of Assuryan (8E High Elves)

    Generic Heros
    Mage - Metal, Beasts, Death (8E High Elves)
    Dragon Mage (8E High Elves)
    Lothern Sea Helm (8E High Elves)

    Units
    Warlions of Chrace (6E Storm of Magic)
    Lion Chariot (8E High Elves)
    Lothern Skycutter (8E High Elves)
    Arcane Phoenix (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Myrwyrm (Monstrous Arcanum & 6E Storm of Chaos)

    Mounts
    Flame & Frosheart Phoenix - Anointed of Assurian (8E High Elves)
    Griffin - Prince, Noble (8E High Elves)
    Lothern Skycutter - Lothern Sea Helm (8E High Elves)

    Dark Elves

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Malus Darkblade (8E Dark Elves)
    Beastlord Rakhart (5E Dark Elves)
    Shadowblade (8E Dark Elves)
    Kouran Darkhand (8E Dark Elves)
    Tullaris Deadbringer (8E Dark Elves)
    Urian Poisonblade (5E Dark Elves)

    Generic Lords
    Black Ark Fleetmaster (8E Dark Elves) (In the game Campaign only on Black Arks)
    High Beastmaster (8E Dark Elves)
    Druchii Anointed (6E Storm of Chaos) (Cult of Pleasure only)
    Supreme Sorceress - Light, Life, Heavens, Metal (8E Dark Elves)

    Generic Heros
    Master (8E High Elves)
    Sorceress - Light, Life, Heavens, Metal (8E Dark Elves)

    Units
    Bloodwrack Medusa (8E Dark Elves)
    Bloodwrack Shrine (8E Dark Elves)
    Scourgerunner Chariot (8E Dark Elves)
    Devoted of Slannesh (6E Storm of Chaos) (Cult of Pleasure only)
    Slannesh Marked DE units (6E Storm of Chaos) (Cult of Pleasure only)

    Mounts
    Scourgerunner Chariot - High Beastmaster (8E Dark Elves)

    Tomb Kings

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Prince Apophas, the Cursed Scarab Lord (8E Tomb Kings)
    Ramhotep the Visionary (8E Tomb Kings)
    Tomb Herald Nekaph (8E Tomb Kings)
    Sehenesmet the Vizier of Quatar (6E Tomb Kings/No Rules)

    Generic Lords
    Liche High Priest (8E Tomb Kings)

    Generic Heros
    Tomb Heralds (8E Tomb Kings)

    Units
    Necrolith Colossus w/GW (8E Tomb Kings)
    Bone Giant [Necrolith Colossus] Sword & Shield (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Khemric Titan (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Incarnate Elemental of Death (Monstrous Arcanum) (Maybe or Vamp Counts)

    Wood Elves

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Ariel (5E Wood Elves)
    Araloth (8E Wood Elves)
    Drycha (8E Wood Elves)
    Naestra & Arahan (8E Wood Elves)

    Generic Lords
    Spellweaver - High, Light, Life, Heavens, Fire, Metal, Beasts, Shadow, Death, Dark (8E Wood Elves)

    Generic Heros
    Glade Captain (8E Wood Elves)
    Shadow Dancer (8E Wood Elves)
    Spellsinger - Light, Heavens, Fire, Metal, Death (8E Wood Elves)

    Units
    Glade Guard - Moonfire, Swiftshiver, Trueflight, Archane Bodkin (8E Wood Elves)
    Glade Rider - Starfire, Moonfire, Swiftshiver, Trueflight, Archane Bodkin (8E Wood Elves)
    Deepwood Scout - Starfire, Moonfire, Hagsbane, Trueflight, Archane Bodkin (8E Wood Elves)

    Mounts
    Great Stag - Glade Lord Glade, Captain (8E Wood Elves)
    Unicorn - Spellsinger, Spellweaver (8E Wood Elves)

    Beastmen

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Ghorros Warhoof (7E Beastmen)
    Moonclaw (7E Beastmen)
    Taurox The Brass Bull (7E Beastmen)
    Molokh Slugtongue (7E Beastmen)
    Ungrol Four-Horn (7E Beastmen)

    Generic Lords
    Doombull (7E Beastmen)
    Great Bray Shaman (7E Beastmen)

    Generic Heros
    Wargor (7E Beastmen)

    Units
    Tuskgor Chariot (7E Beastmen)
    Ghorgon (7E Beastmen)
    Jabberslythe (7E Beastmen)
    Marked Ungors - Khorne, Slannesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle (6E Beastmen & End Times II: Glottkin Book 2)
    Marked Gors - Khorne, Slannesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle (6E Beastmen & End Times II: Glottkin Book 2)
    Marked Minotaurs - Khorne, Slannesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle (6E Beastmen & End Times II: Glottkin Book 2)
    Marked Chaos Spawn - Khorne, Slannesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle (6E Beastmen & End Times II: Glottkin Book 2)
    Preyton (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Incarnate Elemental of Beasts (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Cockatrice (Storm of Magic)
    Great Spined Chaos Beast (Storm of Magic)

    Mounts
    Tuskgor Chariot - Beastlord, Great Bray Shaman, Wargor, Bray Shaman (7E Beastmen)

    Empire

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Kurt Helborg (8E Empire)
    Ludwig Schwarzhelm (8E Empire)
    Markus Wulfhart (8E Empire)
    Marius Leitdorf (8E Empire)
    Luthor Huss (8E Empire)
    Aldebrand Ludenhof, Elector Count of Hochland (4E Empire?)
    Valmir von Raukov, Elector Count of Ostland (4E Empire?)
    Thyrus Gormann, Patriarch of the Bright Order (4E Empire?)
    Valten, Exaulted of Sigmar (Storm of Chaos)
    High Priest Ar-Ulric Emil Valgeir (Storm of Chaos)
    Theodore Bruckner (Tamurkhan)
    Elspeth von Draken (Tamurkhan)
    Jubal Falk (Tamurkhan)

    Generic Lords
    Battle Wizard Lord - Light, Life, Heavens, Fire, Metal, Beasts, Shadow, Death (8E Empire)
    Grand Master (8E Empire)
    Grand Master of the Knights of the White Wolf (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    High Priest of Ulric (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)

    Generic Heros
    Wizard - Metal, Death (8E Empire)
    Master Engineer (8E Empire)
    Seneschal of the White Wolf (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Priest of Ulric (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)

    Units
    Empire State Archer (8E Empire) (Not sure how they'd be different from X-Bows)
    Huntsman (8E Empire)
    Celestial Hurricanum (8E Empire)
    Knights of the White Wolf (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Tutogen Guard (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Warriors of Ulric (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Hunting Hounds (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Wolf-Kin (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Wolf-Kin w/GW (Middenland Only) (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Nuln Ironsides (Nuln Only?) (Tamurkhan)
    Marienburg Land Ship (Marienburg Only?) (Tamurkhan)
    Steam Tank Volley Gun "Alter Kamerad" (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Steam Tank Mortar "Unfehlbar" (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    Empire War Wagon (4E Empire) (Not if Kislev War Wagons Make It)

    Mounts
    Mechanical Steed - Master Engineer (8E Empire)
    Steam Tank Engineer's Fighting Platform "Von Zeppel" - Master Engineer (Warhammer Chronicles 2004)
    The Imperial Dragon - Karl Franz (8E Empire)

    Dwarfs

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Josef Bugman (8E Dwarfs)
    Thorek Ironbrow (8E Dwarfs)
    Grimm Burloksson (8E Dwarfs)
    King Kazador (4E Dwarfs? & White Dwarf UK #315)
    Alrik Ranulfsson (6E Dwarfs)
    Kragg the Grimm, Runelorrd of Karaz-a-Karak (4E Dwarfs?)
    Burlok Damminson, Guildmaster of the Engineer's Guild (4E Dwarfs?)
    Garagrim Iron Fist (Storm of Chaos)
    Malakai Makaisson (Storm of Chaos)

    Generic Lords
    Daemon Slayer (8E Dwarfs)

    Generic Heros
    Dragon Slayer (8E Dwarfs)

    Units
    Miners w/ Steam Drill (8E Dwarfs)
    Doomseeker (6E Storm of Chaos)
    Goblin Hewer (6E Storm of Chaos)
    Slayer Pirates (6E Storm of Chaos) (Unless DoW make it)
    Dwarf Thunderbarge (8E Warhammer Rulebook)

    Mounts
    Shield Bearers (8E Dwarfs)
    Oathstones (8E Dwarfs)

    Greenskins

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Gorfang Rotgut (The King of Black Crag)
    Gitilla da Hunter (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Snagla Grobspit (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Grom the Paunch (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Borgut Facebeater (Storm of Chaos)
    The Masked Chieftain (The End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Raknik Spiderclaw (The Prince of Altdorf Novel by Andy Hall)

    Generic Lords
    Black Orc Warboss (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Savage Orc Warboss (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Ork Great Shaman (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Savage Ork Great Shaman (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Night Goblin Great Shaman (8E Orcs&Goblins)

    Generic Heros
    Black Orc Big Boss (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Goblin Shaman (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Night Goblin Big Boss (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Ork Big Boss (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Savage Ork Big Boss (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Savage Ork Shaman (8E Orcs&Goblins)

    Units
    Arachnarok w/Flinger (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Black Orc Sword & Shield (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Orc Boyz Spears (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Savage Orc Spears (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Savage Orc Big Stabba (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Snotling Pump Wagons (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Goblin Spear Chukkas (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    River Trolls (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Stone Trolls (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Mangler Squig (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Painted Giants (8E Orcs&Goblins)
    Colossal Squig (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Rouge Idol of Gork (or is it Mork) (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Squig Gobba (Forgeworld)
    Giant River Troll Hag (Forgeworld)

    Mounts
    Arachnarok w/Catchweb Spidershrine - Goblin Great Shaman (8E Orcs&Goblins)

    Vampire Counts

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Konrad Von Carstein (8E Vampire Counts)
    Neferata (The End Times Vol I: Nagash Book 2)
    W'soran/Melkhior the Ancient/Zacharias the Everliving (6E Vampire Counts)
    Walach Harkon (5E Vampire Counts)
    Dieter Helsnicht, Doom Lord of the Undead (5E Vampire Counts)
    Ushoran (No Rules)
    Abhorash (No Rules)

    Generic Heros
    Carin Wraith (8E Vampire Counts)

    Units
    Spirit Host (8E Vampire Counts)
    Grave Guard Halberds (6E Vampire Counts)
    Necrofex Colossus (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Incarnate Elemental of Death (Monstrous Arcanum) (Maybe or TK)

    Mounts
    Coven Throne (8E Vampire Counts)
    Abyssal Terror (8E Vampire Counts)

    Warriors of Chaos

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Galrauch (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Valkia The Bloody (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Vilitch The Curseling (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Festeus The Leechlord (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Scyla Anfingrimm (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    The Glottkin (End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Orghotts Daemonspew (End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Bloab Rotspawned (End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Morbidix Twiceborn (End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Skarr Bloodwrath (End Times Vol V: Archaon Book 2)
    Tamurkhan the Maggot Lord (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)
    Sayal The Faithless (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)
    Kayzk the Befouled (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)
    Vardek Crom (Storm of Chaos)
    Aekold Helbras (5E Champions of Chaos)
    Dechala (5E Champions of Chaos)
    Arbaal the Undefeated (5E Champions of Chaos)
    Egrimm van Horstmann (5E Champions of Chaos)
    Azazel (5E Champions of Chaos)

    Generic Lords
    Daemon Prince - Khorne, Slannesh, Nugle, Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)

    Units
    Helistriders of Slannesh (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Helistriders of Slannesh w/ Hellscourges (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Skullcrusher of Khorne (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Skullcrusher of Khorne w/ Lances (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Skullcrusher of Khorne w/ Ensorcelled weapons (8E Warriors of Chaos)

    Chaos Ogre (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Chimera (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Chaos Warshrine (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Slaughterbrute (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Mutalith Vortex Beast (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Putrid Blight Kings (End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Skullreapers (Champions of Khorne?) (End Times Vol V: Archaon Book 2)
    Wrathmongers (End Times Vol V: Archaon Book 2)
    Rot Knights (Chaos Knigts of Nugle?) (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)
    Bile Trolls (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)
    Chaos Siege Giant (Probably a Chaos Dwarf Unit) (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)
    Chaos Warrior - Khorne, Slannesh, Nugle, Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Chaos Marauder - Khorne, Slannesh, Nugle, Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Chosen - Khorne, Slannesh, Nugle, Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Chaos Knight - Khorne, Slannesh, Nugle, Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Chaos Spawn - Khorne, Slannesh, Nugle, Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)

    Mounts
    Daemonic Mount (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Steed of Slaanesh (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Palanquin of Nurgle (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Disc of Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Juggernaut of Khorne (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Maggoth (No Rules/End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Toad Dragon (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)
    Rot Beast (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos)

    Norsca

    Legendary Lords/Heros
    Gutrot Spume (End Times Vol II: Glottkin)
    Egil Styrbjorn
    Valnir the Reaper (5E Champions of Chaos)
    Sven Bloody-Hand

    Generic Lords
    Ulfjarl (Citadel Journal 07)
    Fimir Warlord (Fimir Melee Lord) (3E Warhammer: Armies)
    Fimir Meargh (Fimir Wizard Lord) (3E Warhammer: Armies)
    Norscan Sorcerer Lord - Vikti, Seer, Maladictor, Warlock (Invented/WFRP 2E Tome of Corruption)

    Generic Hero
    Shield Maiden/Valkyrie (Melee Hero) (Citadel Journal 07)

    Units
    Valkyrie (Citadel Journal 07)
    Curs'd Ettin (Monstrous Arcanum)
    Chaos Marauder - Khorne, Slannesh, Nugle, Tzeentch (8E Warriors of Chaos)
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,388
    @SeanJeanquoi

    I did get a notice of your comment but couldn't see it and hence assume it in "edit hell".

    And to be straight forward:
    I don't object with "GS in more dire need" (I haven't play them much so I don't know they "state"), thou I personally prefer the Empire more.

    I don't object forgewolrd (thou I see armbook as higher priority, because if you actually played the TT this was the most common thing you encountered in Warhammer and Forgeworld was more extra), thou I freely admit that lot of the GS "missing" is pretty overblown and hardly would add anything to the game. River Trolls being a prime example of that.

    What I do object are factional wrong statement, just like the one you made.

    And the justification of factional wrong statements by inventing "creative" measurement of what is unit and variant.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @OdTengri

    Well, as I stated in the information part for the units: Da Immortulz could be a RoR or they could be a different type of black Orc. the Krimzon Killerz are Black orcs with Dual axes so Da immortulz could be Black orcs with great weapons or black orcs who are anti large.

    Remember, CA doesnt necissarily make a distinction between whats going to be a fully fledged unit and whats going to be RoR (also i hope they continue to make as many things actual units as possible)

    I dont make more of a distinction in the list itself ( but rather in the description) because i dont see much point in doing so when CA can and will just change these sorts of things around.

    Crooked Jabbers should absolutely be a full blown unit.

    the armoured orcs are a perfect example of why i just use the Umbrella "missing units" because they could be a unit, Dog of War, RoR, Mercenary or anything depending on what CA decide to do in the future.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @SiWI

    dude, you still dont seem to understand. I wasnt making up some pretend definition to make myself right, that was literally the context in which i was using it.

    in the conversation i was having: he said "i dont like variants, Empire needs more" and i said "well, if you dont like variants then the empire doesnt need more because there is actually more here than there is for the empire if you exclude variants"

    thats all there was to it.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,388

    @SiWI

    dude, you still dont seem to understand. I wasnt making up some pretend definition to make myself right, that was literally the context in which i was using it.

    in the conversation i was having: he said "i dont like variants, Empire needs more" and i said "well, if you dont like variants then the empire doesnt need more because there is actually more here than there is for the empire if you exclude variants"

    thats all there was to it.

    in this comment you beautifully defeat yourself.

    You make perfectly clear that the reason you count the Empire units as variants and not as units is so you can discount them.

    You turn units into variants so you can justify including every GS variants under the sun because they are "just like the missing Empire "variants"".
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    @SiWI

    No im not trying to discount them. stop sifting through my words for a "gotcha" and actually take in what i was saying.

    he was discounting units i was advocating against the discounting of them. this is the last time i will attempt to explain this to you. study what comments have been made (particularly the initial conversation) and i wish you all the best in grasping the context.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Registered Users Posts: 3,316
    edited August 2019
    @OdTengri

    I appreciate your input, that is quite the impressive list and im happy to say that ive got most of them down already, either in my lists or for my future lists. still there was alot of useful pieces in there.

    remember that i cannot include something if there is no art, model, bootleg, Info or comparable art out there that i can draw from. some of your skaven inclusions were ones that i heeded before and attempted to implement but they lacked sources online to draw from.

    while i disagree with your point about how i divide units, i will say that its a process. im attempting to refine how i order things and i have been going back to try and optimise prior lists as well. i hope that by the end it will be as neat as it can be and that you will be able to go back and note that the old lists have something new in them as well. right now they are all still kind of works in progress.

    my ultimate goal is to make this as close to a community resource as possible so people can refer back to it and so forth in the future :)
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