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Dogs of War and the Southern Realms Should Be Separate Things

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  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users
    One of the dumbest arguments on the forum. You want to know why, if we get any of this, it will be called "Dogs of War" and not "Southern Realms?" Because "Dogs of War" sounds better. Same reason we got "Vampire Coast" over "Zombie Pirates" even though only one faction represents the actual Vampire Coast. It's just marketing, pure and simple.

    Imagine trying to market "Southern Realms" to the majority of players who aren't that familiar with the lore. Awful name, ridiculous idea.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,982Registered Users
    edited September 3

    @Nyxilis

    When did I say 'i just want them'?! In the time I've spent replying to everyone here in an attempt to properly explain what I'm suggesting. Why I am suggesting it, how it would be good for us, CA and the faction.

    How have you managed to somehow melt all of that down into something so asenine as "I just wanna throw my toys out of the pram because I just want it".

    Really?

    Remember when I told you the exact same thing when you made that ridiculously huge thread for Wissenland, that it looks like you're creating a pet project?

    I'm not sure if you're lacking self-awareness or something but you definitely have an obsession for making long-winded threads based around an idea and then seeing which bits and pieces of the lore you can incorporate and which you will willfully ignore.

    For instance, the criminal elements? Those are parts of DoW, not Tilea specifically. Not sure even where you're getting the criminal problem as Tilea is depicted quite peaceful aside from the nobles infighting. Maybe Norscan raids but that's about it. The armybook in the opening literally states that DoW have a significant element of pirates, cut-throats and bandits in it alongside buccaneers and nobles. This is why Sartosa and other unsavory elements were at all connected to DoW.

    If anything Tilea and Estalia should be fully cultured nations relying more on fantasy depictions of Italian and Spanish culture if we were to make any distinction. Border Princes shouldn't even exist as a faction, they should be a bunch of human pseudo-factions, like Rogue Armies, not belonging to any specific race.

    So, no. I don't think there's any justification of making DoW self-contained entities, like, entire armies of them. I think they can be more or less implemented in SR only(I don't really care about the name being Southern Realms or Dogs of War). Maybe in singleplayer they can be available to their progenitor races and maybe some others but the same reason why they weren't returned for 6th and so on editions is because they broke faction asymmetry. I don't think CA will want to do that either, especially as they heavily limited lords like Arkhan, Aranessa and Alarielle in how much they get.

    Also, they pretty much showed they try not to overload the sheer number of different factions, primarily because that overloads them with MP testing. Or, at least, that's how it seems. Making distinctions between DoW and SR would be almost unnecessary in my eyes and would be better spent on things like Marienburg Landship.

    Personally, I think you're getting far too elaborate with these things.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Crossil

    Wissenland was not the first time you said something was a 'pet project' of mine...do you remember what the first time was? Because I do...
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,982Registered Users

    @Crossil

    Wissenland was not the first time you said something was a 'pet project' of mine...do you remember what the first time was? Because I do...

    Not at the time when it came about, only after you posted Wissenland did it become apparent to me.

    After all, you weren't posting entire huge threads like these when that debate started.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,982Registered Users
    Now, let's do it like you and post a second time for some reason.

    Nakai really is a Ghorst character. You know those unofficial rules people here liked to post? They, and everything stated in them, is literally incorrect. No blade, not albino, no jungle coming to the rescue. Also, the reason why he was made an LL is because the one rule banning him from it was literally unofficial.

    He is factually CA's creation. He has no rules and only minor mentions. Which I actually like because there's Surtha Ek that I would like to see even though there are loreful options for Norsca. I guess I'm happy in this department.

    The one thing that is most susp is the Ancient Kroxigor in this entire story. How exactly LM will be lead by a random brute will be something to be fought over, as I've seen has already happened. I guess all that stuff about Nakai being unique was quite clearly thrown into the water.

    Well, at least CA shows one thing, that being that they are willing to get a bit more elaborate with individual factions, although we have yet to see just how elaborate Wulfhart's and Nakai's factions are.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited September 3
    @Crossil

    oh so you do remember? I thought you might.

    way back at the end of last year (around November) around when Vampire Coast came out I suggested that Nakai be made a lord, in charge of a horde army, working for a vassal just like Bellisarius in "The Last Roman" DLC for TW Attila. I suggested he could be placed in Albion and/or as a Defender of Lustria.

    I also put forward that Gor-Rok was perfect FLC material because hes a tank that would focus on buffing mainly himself rather than other units and because he has no direct links to other units who could be implemented along side him and because Kroq-Gar and Nakai both fill his role in unique different ways.

    I recall you going as far as to say I was pushing fan fiction and that I was using fake quotes that were based on a misinterpretation of the lore (those exact quotes are literally on the Hunter and the Beast Summery page Right now)
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,982Registered Users
    edited September 3

    @Crossil

    oh so you do remember? I thought you might.

    way back at the end of last year (around November) around when Vampire Coast came out I suggested that Nakai be made a lord, in charge of a horde army, working for a vassal just like Bellisarius in "The Last Roman" DLC for TW Attila. I suggested he could be placed in Albion and/or as a Defender of Lustria.

    I also put forward that Gor-Rok was perfect FLC material because hes a tank that would focus on buffing mainly himself rather than other units and because he has no direct links to other units who could be implemented along side him and because Kroq-Gar and Nakai both fill his role in unique different ways.

    I recall you going as far as to say I was pushing fan fiction and that I was using fake quotes that were based on a misinterpretation of the lore (those exact quotes are literally on the Hunter and the Beast Summery page Right now)

    You were pushing fanfiction. There wasn't a precedent to it in lore and I stand by it. In fact I still see nowhere that it's written that he "didn't pledge himself by his own free will" and the summary page literally states that "he's driven by instinct".

    What exactly did you get right? The bit about him talking? The shown quest battle has him uttering few words that barely make a discernible sentence. Even Beastmen are more eloquent than him.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Crossil

    Nakai Was never a Pet project of mine however, he was simply a character I really wanted and one that I saw alot of potential in.

    Calling DoW or Wissenland a "Pet Project" could be closer to the truth however. Once again I see great potential in them that I really want to see realised and there are alot of misconceptions around them both that I wanted to dispel (The Idea that Averland has a better start position than Wissenland for example).

    to call these "Pet Projects" might be somewhat fair because in a sense they are, but they are ideas and potential that I wish to spread throughout the community; raising awareness about X faction or Mechanic.

    The ideal outcome is that I do raise awareness and inspire others to share in wanting x thing and perhaps even reaching CA with it and giving them some ideas to work with.

    Ultimately, I see alot of potential in the Warhammer games and I want them to be the best they can be. To me that means engaging with the community and creating meaningful content that may speak to others or the devs and help the discourse and the Development of the game into a better game.

    I dont have all my eggs in one basket though and I understand that what I want isnt what everyone else wants. If we never see a Wissenland that would be a damn shame but I wouldn't be cursing CA or the community for wanting something different.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,982Registered Users
    edited September 3
    Memento mori. It will come to bite you if you don't hold back on what to expect. And on what grand fantasies you and others embark on.

    You might just end up fostering resentment from this desire that you intend on pushing among others.

    As I said, much of what we discussed long ago is what I still stand by. I have yet to see much of it overturned even if CA decided to upgrade Nakai from his Ghorst position. I was pretty accurate about his character, more than you. Funny how that's something you don't aknowledge.

    But enough about this.

    DoW and SR aren't divisible. That's my point.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited September 3
    @Crossil

    I was correct about him being a Lord, him being Intelligent, him being a nomad. him being the Head of a faction that is focused around the feral beasts of the Jungle and Kroxigors because of his deep connection to the jungle itself. I was right about him working with a vassal faction, conquering on their behalf. I was Right about Gor-Rok being Ideal FLC. I'm sure I also refered to his faction as the spirit of the Jungle as well.

    my point here is not to rub it in and more to illustrate that I'm not crazy or lacking in Knowledge and that perhaps I have a good eye for what might work in the game. I put genuine effort into the work I do on here (the main Posts) and its something that interests me. Its a creative outlet.

    you've talked before like i Have a vendetta against you, like i Hate you, but i don't, not at all (yet I have a sneaking suspicion that you have a vendetta/hatred against me). my main issue with you is not you, its how you gatekeep content and act like an ultimate authority on it when neither CA nor other fans agree with what you think should be law.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited September 3
    @Crossil

    I just said "I dont have all my eggs in one basket though and I understand that what I want isnt what everyone else wants. If we never see a Wissenland that would be a damn shame but I wouldn't be cursing CA or the community for wanting something different."

    and I meant it! this is not a fantasy, its something I like to do and things I would like CA to do.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Crossil

    "DoW and SR aren't divisible. That's my point."

    well wonderful! we are in agreement because im not proposing they be completely separate at all :)

  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,982Registered Users


    Intelligent, sure.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited September 3
    @Crossil

    Intelligent enough to Lead the Lizardmen and actively help them found a settlement in Albion.

    I never said he was a genius even back then. My point was that he isn't as dumb as more modern Krox and that he has personal agency to some degree. CA has implemented him exactly as I thought they would.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    edited September 3
    @Crossil

    "I was pretty accurate about his character, more than you. Funny how that's something you don't aknowledge."

    in some ways perhaps, where our views overlapped, and yet ultimately I was on the money and I used the same quotes CA is now using (Which you said were false). you are also not taking into account the many conversations we have had together, where I have tried to explain to you the necessity of augmenting things for adaption into other mediums.

    On this topic, I was right and am still being proven right more and more by CA's actions. even if you were 100% more correct than me on the lore, I was still right about it only mattering to a certain extent (especially now that CA and Vermintide are now making most of GW's revenue, we are very likely to see more and more divergence). Even if ultimately you were and are still correct, i was right about your rationale and measurement for what should/shouldn't, can/can't be done being wrong.

    Again though, my point was not to pull a Millhouse here, I was hoping that I could be honest with you and bring this to your attention so that you might be a bit more mellow and flexible going forward and we might not be at each others throats all the time because I genuinely don't like the animosity I get from you all the time and how quickly a simple conversation can explode into a big ordeal.
    Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,134Registered Users

    @Nyxilis

    When did I say 'i just want them'?! In the time I've spent replying to everyone here in an attempt to properly explain what I'm suggesting. Why I am suggesting it, how it would be good for us, CA and the faction.

    How have you managed to somehow melt all of that down into something so asenine as "I just wanna throw my toys out of the pram because I just want it".

    Really?

    Why on earth would you be suggesting it if you didn't want it? Why would you be defending it with such zeal if you didn't want it? If you say now that you didn't it, I'd call you out.

    It would not be good for us, it would just be butchering lore left and right. It would be a forceful separation of armies that are the same. Tilea was directly built to rely on the DoW so any separation would be a nonsensical rebuilt.

    I've explained multiple reasons attacking your multiple points so I didn't just melt it down but I certainly called out your motivation for it.
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