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Razordons vs. Salamanders.

OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,124Registered Users
So in light of certain personalities having confirmed/suggested that Razordons are poorly implemented as is and my immense frustration with CA's implementation of Salamanders already... Can they FIX THEM.

Salamanders are supposed to spout flame like a flame thrower they are supposed to be flamethrowers on legs, thats what their TT rules suggest and their artistic depictions show.






Razordons however being giant quill slinging porcupine lizards should be given Charge Def v Large and an AP AL ranged attack that breaks apart/shoots as a volley similar to the shots fired by the Chosen of the Gods (Ushabti - Great Bow) unit.

These quotes from its 8th edition TT entry describe its behavior and interaction that support the rules I'm suggesting for it. Bold for emphasis.

"As a defensive protection, this razor-sharp body armour serves to deter all but the most determined of creatures, and even the most monstrous of Lustria’s many apex predators will think twice before attacking a Razordon."

"When a good-sized insect drones by, the Razordon will fire volleys of its spikes into the air"

"By way of powerful muscle spasms, Razordons can discharge their spines, shooting them outwards in a deadly hail."

"Razordons feed on any of the enormous winged insects that plague the moist swampy air in droning clouds so dense that they blot out the noonday sun."

"While any of the plethora of insect types will do, all Razordons consider the horse-sized stegawasps or blood- draining sabreflies special delicacies."

"Should a foe be so foolhardy as to charge a Razordon, the spiky reptile has developed a fearsomely devastating reaction — flexing its scaly hide to blast forth a formidable volley."

"During the Battle for the Lost Plaque at Lacoussaint, Razordon Hunting Packs were massed together into a large formation and managed to stop cold a formation of charging Bretonnian knights, slaughtering them to a man."

I mean if you take the words I made bold for emphasis and ad a word here or there to make an intelligible sentences they would read.

"Many apex predators will think twice before attacking a Razordon."

"Razordons fire volleys in a deadly hail, feeding on enormous winged insects like the horse-sized stegawasps"

"Should a foe be so foolhardy as to charge a Razordon a formidable volley could stop a formation of charging Bretonnian knights"
Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

Comments

  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,767Registered Users
    edited September 4
    So I’m actually okay with Salamanders as they are (aside from still being a little salty about the precise degree to which Sally was nerfed).

    I understand the flamethrower argument, I do. But looking at how ‘flamethrower’ type dragon breath has been done.... I’m honestly okay with a fiery projectile if ‘dragon breath’ is the alternative.

    I agree though that Razordons seem kinda underwhelming atm. I would honestly like to see changes which make them very short range, but very high damage and heavily armored. But they shoot their projectiles outward, in a 360 degree arc....as if a porcupine or puffer fish was firing off its spines.

    They could get a super long reload rate and a low ammunition count.

    But the idea being, you want to rush the Razordon into a blob. That blob wants to dodge it, shoot it from range, or use a chaff unit to bait its shot out.

    Once that shot is fired, the Razordon has to get out of dodge safely as quick as it can... being pretty vulnerable in melee while it waits to reload.

    That’s kinda how I envisioned/hoped that’s how they would work prior to seeing them in action. It would give them a unique gameplay feel rather than an identical feel as a Salamander....just with a different bonus vs. whatever.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Posts: 8,589Registered Users
    edited September 4
  • BoombastekBoombastek Posts: 2,017Registered Users
    Well gameplay wise razordon had a same attack range as salamander.

    But looks like they are not had explosive dmg. So even if salamanders had a low AP, they still doing same role as razordon but better.
  • xXF1aKOXxxXF1aKOXx Posts: 822Registered Users
    edited September 4
    Salamanders should be anti infantry/Armor Piercing

    Razordon should be anti large/heavy armor piercings

    What i hope to see when they release the dlc/patch

    The way the salamanders is rn in the game 3 hunting packs can take down a giant within 5 mins like that crazy i hoping they change the role and let the razordon do that for the salamanders lol

    Kinda disappointed how the razordon shoot the spikes with there tail but i cant blame CA prob would be hard to animate them shooting from their backs

    If i remember correctly in the table top if you roll certain numb the razordon would shoot fast like a machine gun at the target

    It would be cool if they had that but it cant happen obv because then they would be having to shoot/swing their tail like crazy lol

    And not a big deal but to make it fair they should have added a ancient razordon it feels werid and sad razordon dont have one but forsure a moder will make one lol


  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Posts: 8,589Registered Users
    edited September 4
    How about making their body expand when releasing those spikes and takes time to grow them again?

    As said, "They have powerful muscle spasms, and they can discharge their spines, shooting them outwards in a deadly hail."

    Razordon must be surrounded by enemies to become effective unlike Salamander.

    Razordon must target enemy blobs before he unleash deadly hail of spines unlike Salamander which can breath fire from afar.
    Post edited by jamreal18 on
  • BoombastekBoombastek Posts: 2,017Registered Users
    xXF1aKOXx said:

    Salamanders should be anti infantry/Armor Piercing

    Razordon should be anti large/heavy armor piercings

    What i hope to see when they release the dlc/patch

    The way the salamanders is rn in the game 3 hunting packs can take down a giant within 5 mins like that crazy i hoping they change the role and let the razordon do that for the salamanders lol

    Kinda disappointed how the razordon shoot the spikes with there tail but i cant blame CA prob would be hard to animate them shooting from their backs

    If i remember correctly in the table top if you roll certain numb the razordon would shoot fast like a machine gun at the target

    It would be cool if they had that but it cant happen obv because then they would be having to shoot/swing their tail like crazy lol

    And not a big deal but to make it fair they should have added a ancient razordon it feels werid and sad razordon dont have one but forsure a moder will make one lol


    Well razordon must be anti infantry.

    Salamander alredy had anti large bonus. But explosive dmg is core in chose against razordon.
  • xXF1aKOXxxXF1aKOXx Posts: 822Registered Users
    edited September 4

    xXF1aKOXx said:

    Salamanders should be anti infantry/Armor Piercing

    Razordon should be anti large/heavy armor piercings

    What i hope to see when they release the dlc/patch

    The way the salamanders is rn in the game 3 hunting packs can take down a giant within 5 mins like that crazy i hoping they change the role and let the razordon do that for the salamanders lol

    Kinda disappointed how the razordon shoot the spikes with there tail but i cant blame CA prob would be hard to animate them shooting from their backs

    If i remember correctly in the table top if you roll certain numb the razordon would shoot fast like a machine gun at the target

    It would be cool if they had that but it cant happen obv because then they would be having to shoot/swing their tail like crazy lol

    And not a big deal but to make it fair they should have added a ancient razordon it feels werid and sad razordon dont have one but forsure a moder will make one lol


    Well razordon must be anti infantry.

    Salamander alredy had anti large bonus. But explosive dmg is core in chose against razordon.
    They can always change the stats
  • ZehirutZehirut Posts: 41Registered Users
    Yeah it seems like the Salamanders for some reason were given the Razordons role and now that the Razordons are finally in the game, the two are overlapping, I wonder if its too late to make any significant change, but I have my doubts CA will drastically modify the way the salamanders currently work
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,264Registered Users
    I could not agree more. Salamanders not being fast and mobile flamethrowers left me devastated! In my heart I know it's wrong. I feel it deeply! Yes!

    Now Razordons come and their animations are just awful. It looks like the most brutal animation budget cut.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,124Registered Users
    I've been looking at them a little more and actually their firing animation isn't bad its just that they mill about forever after firing doing nothing because they have a really long reload. The biggest problem with their firing animation is it leaves them with a really low firing arc and they should have an arc more on par with XBows/Archers.

    They should fire a spray pattern like chosen of the gods, but with BvL like Norscan Javelins.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,264Registered Users
    OdTengri said:

    I've been looking at them a little more and actually their firing animation isn't bad its just that they mill about forever after firing doing nothing because they have a really long reload. The biggest problem with their firing animation is it leaves them with a really low firing arc and they should have an arc more on par with XBows/Archers.

    They should fire a spray pattern like chosen of the gods, but with BvL like Norscan Javelins.

    They should lower their front, up their back and tail and then shoot. Now it looks as if they smash some enemies in melee.


    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,124Registered Users

    OdTengri said:

    I've been looking at them a little more and actually their firing animation isn't bad its just that they mill about forever after firing doing nothing because they have a really long reload. The biggest problem with their firing animation is it leaves them with a really low firing arc and they should have an arc more on par with XBows/Archers.

    They should fire a spray pattern like chosen of the gods, but with BvL like Norscan Javelins.

    They should lower their front, up their back and tail and then shoot. Now it looks as if they smash some enemies in melee.


    I agree that should be how the animation works. Tail flinging up over their back, front crouching a bit like a tiger readying to ponce.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • SteamageSteamage Posts: 348Registered Users
    @OdTengri

    I have always been very happy with CA when it comes to new models and animations in pay content.

    This time not, the Razordon is clearly a Lazy addition, Ca just add him because the fan`s don't shut up about him (for good reason)

    Then be disrespectful and don't even give him good animation. Like a fake unit the "sacred kroxigors"

    Don`t Get me wrong, I like them, their animations are so over-the-top and their power gloves are so badass.

    Still is clearly where the animation and model budget goes.

    If i am honest, i would cut the half of this and give the resource to the Razordon, maybe the model would`nt be fix but at least they could have good animation for sure.

    CA is doesn't matter how over the top and cool you make your fan fiction Units, their are not centipede monsters or 8 editions, no one waited for them.

    My proof for this how CA gave a big yeahhh nothing for them is in the trailer, where we don't even have a better look at them. Not even in the Steampage are they prominent but just one pic with the 4 heroes.

    Nobody should misunderstand me now, better more content than less, they could have at least show more respect to this cutie.

    and no he not a salamander reskin.

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/a/a3/Razordons.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160428024355

    p.s and no i don`t believe the will ever fix him, at least optic, because they didn't even bother to add better texture to the steam tank.

    But overall i like the DLC, this is just the biggest disappointment.

  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,577Registered Users
    jamreal18 said:


    To be fair, that's how they were on the TT too.
  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Posts: 436Registered Users

    xXF1aKOXx said:

    Salamanders should be anti infantry/Armor Piercing

    Razordon should be anti large/heavy armor piercings

    What i hope to see when they release the dlc/patch

    The way the salamanders is rn in the game 3 hunting packs can take down a giant within 5 mins like that crazy i hoping they change the role and let the razordon do that for the salamanders lol

    Kinda disappointed how the razordon shoot the spikes with there tail but i cant blame CA prob would be hard to animate them shooting from their backs

    If i remember correctly in the table top if you roll certain numb the razordon would shoot fast like a machine gun at the target

    It would be cool if they had that but it cant happen obv because then they would be having to shoot/swing their tail like crazy lol

    And not a big deal but to make it fair they should have added a ancient razordon it feels werid and sad razordon dont have one but forsure a moder will make one lol


    Well razordon must be anti infantry.

    Salamander alredy had anti large bonus. But explosive dmg is core in chose against razordon.
    Hopefully CA will swap some roles around in the patch notes. Razordons are known for killing large prey with their spikes, so they ought to have a pretty fat anti-large bonus.
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