Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

CA's Criteria for Choosing Legendary Lords

DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users
edited September 4 in General Discussion
For some time before this update I advocated for both Nakai and Wulfhart as Legendary Lord picks, not just because they seemed like cool characters but because I thought they fit the criteria CA tends to use for these sorts of things. This thread is about trying to identify what that criteria is and what it means going forward.

A lot of people have strong feelings about the lords they want and while I do think CA listens to that (it's probably why we're getting both Nakai and Gor-Rok), I think they weigh that after they've made their own decisions about what sort of LL they need. If there's a fan favorite who fits the necessary benchmarks they'll go with that, but if the fan favorites don't fit those requirements then they'll be skipped.

So what sort of criteria are we talking about here? Well, here's how I see it:
  • The Lord Choice Must Offer Combat Variability: This one is simple enough. CA tries not to pick LLs who are too similar to each other. The High Elves and Dark Elves are both excellent examples of this. Both races have two caster lords and two combat focused lords, but all are very distinct from each other. The High Elves have an offensive, damage dealing caster (Teclis), a defensive healing/buffing caster (Alarielle), a melee beatstick and lord killer (Tyrion), and a sneaky ranged fighter (Alith Anar). The Dark Elves have a pure caster (Morathi), a hybrid melee/caster (Malekith), a pure anti-infantry blender (Hellebron) and an assassin/duelist (Lokhir). In short, the more distinct a lord choice is from his peers, the more likely he is to make it in.
  • The Lord Choice Must Offer Campaign Variability: Similar rules as above. If a LL choice lends itself to interesting campaign mechanics then CA will consider that a major plus. This is a more flexible rule than the first, though. The mechanics introduced for Wulfhart, for example, could be applied to other characters. In many cases this can be seen as CA trying to build on a central theme. They decided they wanted to have an Empire LL leading an expedition to the New World. Of the options who do you pick? A few different options are possible, but the one that most strongly lends itself to a theme of exploration and rivalry is Wulfhart, as he is a hunter who exists on the fringes of Imperial society, hunting big dangerous things the Emperor tells him to. This is easily extended into a themed rivalry with a big, monstrous character, and of the New World LL choices Nakai fits that mold the best.
  • The Lord Choice Must Tie into Some Sort of Theme: This mostly just applies to DLC lords. CA usually goes for some kind of thematic approach. This can be expressed in different ways. For example, they may pick a LL who has a connection some or all of the new units being added with the DLC, as was the case with Ghorst and his Corpse Cart or Volkmar and his Flagellants. In other cases they pick LLs who have an existing rivalry within the lore, like Skarsnik and Belegar. And in some cases they manufacture a rvalry based on a broader theme, as they stated Tehenhauin and Ikit Claw were pitted against each other both due to the overall Skaven vs Lizardmen rivalry from the lore, but also because they represented a theme of technology vs religion.
  • If it is a FLC Lord it Must Be Within Budget: This is pretty straightforward. FLC lords almost always reuse the animations and rigs of existing unit types. Vlad, Tiktaq'to, Grombrindal, Isabella, etc, etc. Sometimes they even re-use large chunks of existing models. This also applies to their mechanics. Tiktaq'to is a good example. He was clearly picked because he fit the first two rules, offering speedy skirmishy battlefield gameplay, very different from the other Lizardmen LLs, and this continued into his campaign mechanics with his new rite and bonuses to other units/lords, yet all of this could be implemented on the cheap. TTT himself just reuses the animations and rig of a standard Terradon rider and his various mechanics require no new interfaces, animations, or other extensive changes.
If I am right and this is a mostly accurate representation of CA's criteria for LL choices, what does that means for the future? Who are they most likely to pick? Here are some rough outlines.
  • Empire - The Empire now has a melee focused lord (Karl), a pure caster (Gelt), a melee/caster hybrid (Volkmar), and a ranged/sneaky assassin (Wulfhart. They're in a pretty good place in terms of options, but if I had to guess the direction CA might go if more LLs were added, I suspect a new caster with a different focus than Gelt is very likely. If they add another melee/combat focused LL they will have to have very different mechanics to distinguish themselves from Karl, Wulfhart, and Volkmar.
  • Dwarfs - All of the dwarfs are some variety of close-combat lord. If CA is going to add anything to them I would expect a ranged lord or some sort of caster.
  • Vampire Counts - Most of the VC characters focus on magic. Kemmler and Ghorst are both pure caster lords, Mannfred and Isabella are hybrids, and Vlad is a pure combat tank. If they add anyone else my bet is on somebody more focused on melee.
  • Greenskins - The Greenskins are in a pretty good place in terms of options, with a strong melee lord (Grimgor), a pure caster (Wurrzag), a hybrid melee/caster (Azhag), and a sneaky melee goblin-buffer (Skarsnik). If I had to guess on who might get added I would actually say either a more ranged-focused lord or a dedicated assassin, both options they lack.
  • Beastmen - Of the three Beastmen LLs two are casters and one is a melee fighter. The logical option here is a new melee focused lord.
  • Wood Elves - The Wood Elves have a hybrid melee/ranged lord and a hybrid monstrous/caster lord. They have no dedicated caster at all, and that seems like the reasonable direction for them to go.
  • WoC - Of the three WoC LLs you have the strongest melee fighter in the game (Kholek), a duelist/assassin (Sigvald), and a hybrid melee/caster lord (Archaon). They also lack a pure caster lord, but in this they are hampered by the fact that most of their caster lord choices are associated with the Lores of specific chaos gods. It's unlikely an entire new Lore would be added with just an FLC or a even a Lord Pack, but if they have a caster lord choice who can reasonably use an existing lore (or a combination of lores) then that character is very likely, at least before WHIII and the addition of the chaos Lores.
  • Bretonnia - Two cavalry focused melee lords and a dedicated buffer/healer caster lord. Bretonnia doesn't have a ton of character options, but another caster lord (probably with an offense focus) or an infantry or range focused combat lord are both likely directions for CA.
  • Norsca - Completely lacking a caster lord of any kind, that's the logical direction for them. But their thematic focus is somewhat different than the WoC, and it would mean finding a caster lord choice who fits the Norsca theme or heavy metal vikings, as opposed to the WoC theme of hell-warriors of the apocalypse.
  • High Elves - The High Elves are very well rounded, but the one lord type they really lack is a hybrid lord of some sort.
  • Dark Elves - The Dark Elves are also very well rounded. This is a difficult one to pin down. They could use a more deffensive/buffing caster, but that goes against their murderous theme and gameplay style of "the best defense is a good offense." I think this choice will come down more to campaign options and overall thematic strength more than anything else.
  • Skaven - The Skaven have two casters and two melee lords. Both of their casters are melee hybrids, while the melee lords focus on dueling and sneakiness respectively. A pure caster lord would make a lot of sense for them, but if there's a very strong thematic choice that might overrule everything else.
  • Lizardmen - The Lizardmen really, really don't need more LLs right now, but if they were to get one another caster lord would balance things out a bit, as currently their only pure caster lord is Mazdamundi. Tehenhauin is a hybrid and everybody else is some sort of melee lord.
  • Tomb Kings - The mummies have a very good mix of casters, hybrids, and duelists. The main thing they are missing is a monstrous lord or a a lord focused on one of the major aspects of their army: constructs.
  • Vampire Coast- Where these guys would get a new character is beyond me, but if they were to get one another caster lord is the way to go. Harkon is a melee/ranged hybrid, Aranessa is a duelist, Noctilus is a melee/caster hybrid, and Cylostra is a pure caster. Another caster with a different focus from Cylostra would make sense, but this is also a faction that could easily accommodate a monstrous lord.
The above list just indicates directions I think CA will go, and is not intended to suggest any particular LL choice. If there isn't a popular choice available that goes in one of these directions then I think the odds of CA picking a very obscure character who isn't very popular but provides the desired themes/gameplay/mechanics are increased,
«1

Comments

  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Posts: 8,605Registered Users
    edited September 4
    They must be well known

    Check it out!

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/183236/cas-criteria-for-choosing-whom-legendary-lord-to-become-playable/p1


    *Is it due to their popularity?
    *Background Story?
    *They Look Cool?
    *They appear in certain edition?
    *Their connection with another LL?
    *Most requested?
    Etc....
  • ArsenicArsenic Posts: 4,711Registered Users


    Wood Elves - The Wood Elves have a hybrid melee/ranged lord and a hybrid monstrous/caster lord. They have no dedicated caster at all, and that seems like the reasonable direction for them to go.

    High Elves - The High Elves are very well rounded, but the one lord type they really lack is a hybrid lord of some sort.
    Ariel(I know, I know. Say her name, and he will come..) is a pure caster, for the WE, and Eltharion a melee lord with access to a handful of spells for the HE.


    But the latter isn't an option, because I want Prince Imrik.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users
    jamreal18 said:

    They must be well known

    I think it's pretty obvious at this point that CA doesn't consider this a major concern. Tretch, Ghorst, Nakai, all were minor characters or lore blurbs. CA picked them because they fulfilled different criteria than "well known."

    If there's a well known and popular character who fits their other benchmarks, then yes, they'll go with that guy. If not? They're pick whoever fits their needs.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,535Registered Users
    His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledoran, the Lord of the Dragons luckily meets the criteria.

    Dragonrider with a dragon who can* use Lore of Fire. Now how unique and fancy is that? Mount caster. Such novelty, I'm in awe!

    *A small stretch. Considering how many things CA is changing lately I wouldn't mind giving Minaithnir access to magic.
    Arsenic said:


    Wood Elves - The Wood Elves have a hybrid melee/ranged lord and a hybrid monstrous/caster lord. They have no dedicated caster at all, and that seems like the reasonable direction for them to go.

    High Elves - The High Elves are very well rounded, but the one lord type they really lack is a hybrid lord of some sort.
    Ariel(I know, I know. Say her name, and he will come..) is a pure caster, for the WE, and Eltharion a melee lord with access to a handful of spells for the HE.


    But the latter isn't an option, because I want Prince Imrik.
    Eltharion will make fine FLC addition.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Posts: 1,195Registered Users
    I don't really think they have a systematic way to decide lords. While several of the criteria you mention are important, I feel like most of them can be adapted to fit pretty much any character. Combat variation seems to be one of the strongest, and it's also the one that is most strongly tied to the characters themselves.

    For the other criteria however, it seems that CA does more or less whatever they want. Many of the campaign mechanics are not incredibly central to the characters, and most DLC lords could easily have had different or simply less mechanics without breaking their character in any way. Alarielle for example did not need to have her "unite Ulthuan" or "keep Ulthuan uncorrupted" as specific mechanics, they could simply have been represented by factionwide skils.

    About themes, here too CA has taken a lot of liberties, and the themes are far from consistent. For Ikit Claw, all the units belong to a clan he leads, a very strong theme. For Hellebron on the other hand, none of her units have anything to do with her beyond being dark elves.

    Also the budget part seems quite bendable. Nakai seems to have lots of unique animations, but he did not need to. They could have made him FLC with normal Kroxigor animations.

    So, overall I think CA looks the most at combat variation, since everything else can be adapted in various ways.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users

    I don't really think they have a systematic way to decide lords. While several of the criteria you mention are important, I feel like most of them can be adapted to fit pretty much any character. Combat variation seems to be one of the strongest, and it's also the one that is most strongly tied to the characters themselves.

    For the other criteria however, it seems that CA does more or less whatever they want. Many of the campaign mechanics are not incredibly central to the characters, and most DLC lords could easily have had different or simply less mechanics without breaking their character in any way. Alarielle for example did not need to have her "unite Ulthuan" or "keep Ulthuan uncorrupted" as specific mechanics, they could simply have been represented by factionwide skils.

    About themes, here too CA has taken a lot of liberties, and the themes are far from consistent. For Ikit Claw, all the units belong to a clan he leads, a very strong theme. For Hellebron on the other hand, none of her units have anything to do with her beyond being dark elves.

    Also the budget part seems quite bendable. Nakai seems to have lots of unique animations, but he did not need to. They could have made him FLC with normal Kroxigor animations.

    So, overall I think CA looks the most at combat variation, since everything else can be adapted in various ways.

    I do agree that CA allows some flexibility, but all of these I think at least come up. Hellebron may not have been very thematically tied to her units, but she was more suitable to a thematic pairing with Alarielle ("Queen and the Crone" just rolls right off the tongue) and I imagine that was a consideration at least.

    As for Nakai, I think he was picked for three reasons. One: he's a monstrous lord, which makes him more distinct from the other LM melee lords. Two: he lends himself to unique campaign mechanics as a horde, being "The Wanderer" and all. Three: He fit the best thematically as a rival to Markus Wulfhart, the beast to the hunter.
  • KandennKandenn Posts: 446Registered Users
    edited September 4
    The only exception for your statement about FLC Lords is Alith Anar. He does have a new cool mechanic. But he is the only one of all FLC lords.
    jamreal18 said:

    They must be well known

    For DLC lords that almost always true except for Ghorst.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Posts: 5,553Registered Users
    Kandenn said:

    The only exception for your statement about FLC Lords is Alith Anar. He does have a new cool mechanic. But he is the only one of all FLC lords.

    jamreal18 said:

    They must be well known

    For DLC lords that almost always true except for Ghorst.
    Even then Ghorst was only chosen due to the DLCs theme being Sigmars Blood.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • ScionOfTheEmperorScionOfTheEmperor Posts: 156Registered Users
    Fitting the Criteria given there's Two who would be Perfect for the Dwarfs:
    Thorek Ironbrow, a Runelord
    &
    Josef Bugman, a Ranger
    I wpuld Love to see both added.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users
    Kandenn said:

    The only exception for your statement about FLC Lords is Alith Anar. He does have a new cool mechanic. But he is the only one of all FLC lords.

    jamreal18 said:

    They must be well known

    For DLC lords that almost always true except for Ghorst.
    I would say "cool" is relative. At the very least they all get some significant associated mechanic, aside from some of the very early FLC lords like Moghur and Vlad. Grombrindal had his Ancestor Gods mechanic, Tiktaq'to has his special movement rite, Lokhir has his unique Black Ark mechanics, Tretch has all his extra sneaky campaign options, and so on. Most of these are done on a budget, like everything with FLC lords, but they are present.
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Posts: 1,080Registered Users
    edited September 4
    I'd like Grom but he would be neither a range or assassin, maybe a healer off sort with high Def and rejuvenation to make him diffrent, heal his goblins with food. Or they could have archers or crossbow mounted on his chariot


  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users
    edited September 4

    Fitting the Criteria given there's Two who would be Perfect for the Dwarfs:
    Thorek Ironbrow, a Runelord
    &
    Josef Bugman, a Ranger
    I wpuld Love to see both added.

    Grimm Burloksson seems like a strong possibility too, as he would also be a ranged lord and would cover a major thematic aspect of the dwarf army (engineering and gunpowder) that none of the other lords really focus on. There's also the issue that Belegar steals a lot of what makes Bugman unique, namely a focus on rangers.
  • Pr4vdaPr4vda Senior Member Posts: 814Registered Users
    Well, GS are not known for their ranged capacities, or their sneaky/assassins abilities either ...

    Grom is unique because he can regen himself and is a great gobbo fighter. I cant imagine him not coming on this game as DLC or FLC. Then, gorfang or a gobbo chaman would be fun. Or the black gobbo ?

    For the Dwarfs, Thorek and Bugman would be my two choices. Ranged specialisation for one, runes for the other. Their gameplay could be awesome.

    For the empire, the reiksmarshall would be fun, he could begin with a horse like the bretonnians. And bring with him the cavalry.
    Team Dawis

    Dawis shall purge all their fallen Karaks, with the blood of the Greeskins and the skavens !
  • TorriderKnaveTorriderKnave Posts: 15Registered Users


    Tomb Kings - The mummies have a very good mix of casters, hybrids, and duelists. The main thing they are missing is a monstrous lord or a a lord focused on one of the major aspects of their army: constructs.
    Ironically, the Tomb Kings have a character that fits both of these requirements at the same time.
    Meet Sehenesmet, the Vizier of Quatar.



    He never had rules and the above image is a Golden Daemon conversion, but he exists in the lore and he loves his constructs so much that he embedded himself in a bone giant, which is also a "FLC" unit.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users
    Timpeyo said:

    I'd like Grom but he would be neither a range or assassin, maybe a healer off sort with high Def and rejuvenation to make him diffrent, heal his goblins with food. Or they could have archers or crossbow mounted on his chariot

    Honestly characters like Snagla Grobspit or Gtilla the Hunta' seem like they would offer more in terms of lord variety to the Greenskins than Grom would. All Grom really has going for him is his rivalry with Eltharion.
  • KandennKandenn Posts: 446Registered Users

    Kandenn said:

    The only exception for your statement about FLC Lords is Alith Anar. He does have a new cool mechanic. But he is the only one of all FLC lords.

    jamreal18 said:

    They must be well known

    For DLC lords that almost always true except for Ghorst.
    I would say "cool" is relative. At the very least they all get some significant associated mechanic, aside from some of the very early FLC lords like Moghur and Vlad. Grombrindal had his Ancestor Gods mechanic, Tiktaq'to has his special movement rite, Lokhir has his unique Black Ark mechanics, Tretch has all his extra sneaky campaign options, and so on. Most of these are done on a budget, like everything with FLC lords, but they are present.
    Yes, that's fair but i wouldn't call it significant for all of them. What i meant is, they all have a new rite (except TWW 1 FLC of course) or a special oriented gameplay (sneaky style for tretch, savage-oriented for wurzaag,,...) but Alith Anar has that special assassination mechanic on top of that. It's something closer to what DLC lord have like sotek sacrifices or blood voyage. The only one close to that is maybe Grombrindal with his ancestor mechanic (i have to admit, i forgot it).

    Not a big deal at all but IMO is the best FLC lord we got thanks to this truly unique mechanic. However you're right to say it has to stay within budget and i don't think Alith Anar is an exception.
  • zinsncabszinsncabs Posts: 671Registered Users
    edited September 4
    The omission of a Dwarf LL Runelord is glaring frankly. CA should add Thorek Ironbrow to fill this gap and it would allow them to really add to the Dwarf playing experience by:

    1. Making Karak Azul, a famous Dwark karak, playable.

    2. Put them in a position to vastly improve Greenskins gameplay by moving Grimgor up north where he belongs and introducing Gorfang Rotgut and Black Crag as a playable faction and loreful rival to Karak Azul. Not to mention it would put a Dwarf LL in potential conflict with the Tomb Kings and Queek Headtaker and Clan Mors early on.

    3. You could add to the Forge mechanic by giving the Dwarfs the ability to craft runes.

    TEARS FOR THE SALT GOD !!! MODS FOR THE BUTHURT !!!
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users
    edited September 4
    Kandenn said:

    Kandenn said:

    The only exception for your statement about FLC Lords is Alith Anar. He does have a new cool mechanic. But he is the only one of all FLC lords.

    jamreal18 said:

    They must be well known

    For DLC lords that almost always true except for Ghorst.
    I would say "cool" is relative. At the very least they all get some significant associated mechanic, aside from some of the very early FLC lords like Moghur and Vlad. Grombrindal had his Ancestor Gods mechanic, Tiktaq'to has his special movement rite, Lokhir has his unique Black Ark mechanics, Tretch has all his extra sneaky campaign options, and so on. Most of these are done on a budget, like everything with FLC lords, but they are present.
    Yes, that's fair but i wouldn't call it significant for all of them. What i meant is, they all have a new rite (except TWW 1 FLC of course) or a special oriented gameplay (sneaky style for tretch, savage-oriented for wurzaag,,...) but Alith Anar has that special assassination mechanic on top of that. It's something closer to what DLC lord have like sotek sacrifices or blood voyage. The only one close to that is maybe Grombrindal with his ancestor mechanic (i have to admit, i forgot it).

    Not a big deal at all but IMO is the best FLC lord we got thanks to this truly unique mechanic. However you're right to say it has to stay within budget and i don't think Alith Anar is an exception.
    I suspect the assassination mechanic was just relatively cheap to implement, yeah. And IIRC it was fairly buggy for a while after Alith Anar's release and only got fixed with patches.
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Posts: 2,459Registered Users
    Pr4vda said:

    Well, GS are not known for their ranged capacities, or their sneaky/assassins abilities either ...

    Grom is unique because he can regen himself and is a great gobbo fighter. I cant imagine him not coming on this game as DLC or FLC. Then, gorfang or a gobbo chaman would be fun. Or the black gobbo ?

    Man I still want Snagla so we can have a powerful Spider themed army. It wold be thematic and add a cavalry focused LL for the greenskins.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 3,042Registered Users

    Pr4vda said:

    Well, GS are not known for their ranged capacities, or their sneaky/assassins abilities either ...

    Grom is unique because he can regen himself and is a great gobbo fighter. I cant imagine him not coming on this game as DLC or FLC. Then, gorfang or a gobbo chaman would be fun. Or the black gobbo ?

    Man I still want Snagla so we can have a powerful Spider themed army. It wold be thematic and add a cavalry focused LL for the greenskins.
    And it does look like they added the Black Pit to the Drakwald with this update...
  • LabriaLabria Posts: 577Registered Users
    edited September 4
    I agree with these criteria. I know CA prefer unique gameplay for LL.
    I have a few idea for these type of LLs:

    Empire:
    Emil Valgeir melee/wizard hybrid with Ulric skills. He can be completely different from Volkmar.
    I think he is only interesting characters for one more Lord pack with Ulric theme. He can go easy to expedition somewhere. Boris is perfect FLC for him, If we don't get him earlier.

    Dwarfs:
    Malakai Makaisson, range lord possible with Spirit of Grungni mount with focus to fly units. He is perfect for Slayer theme Lord pack. He is maybe more fit for game 3. Karag Dum looks like good start for him. Gotrek and Felix are perfect FLC legendary heroes with Slayer theme lord pack.

    Bretonnia:
    Bohemond Beastslayer can be melee lord with mace and armor piercing. Alberic already have anti-large focus. Bohemond is perfect FLC lord far from Bretonnia. He can start in Bregonne in Lustia or Araby.
  • FungusHoundFungusHound Posts: 2,459Registered Users

    Pr4vda said:

    Well, GS are not known for their ranged capacities, or their sneaky/assassins abilities either ...

    Grom is unique because he can regen himself and is a great gobbo fighter. I cant imagine him not coming on this game as DLC or FLC. Then, gorfang or a gobbo chaman would be fun. Or the black gobbo ?

    Man I still want Snagla so we can have a powerful Spider themed army. It wold be thematic and add a cavalry focused LL for the greenskins.
    And it does look like they added the Black Pit to the Drakwald with this update...

  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,042Registered Users
    Arsenic said:


    Wood Elves - The Wood Elves have a hybrid melee/ranged lord and a hybrid monstrous/caster lord. They have no dedicated caster at all, and that seems like the reasonable direction for them to go.

    High Elves - The High Elves are very well rounded, but the one lord type they really lack is a hybrid lord of some sort.
    Ariel(I know, I know. Say her name, and he will come..) is a pure caster, for the WE, and Eltharion a melee lord with access to a handful of spells for the HE.


    But the latter isn't an option, because I want Prince Imrik.
    Eltharion would probably need to be a DLC. High Elf griffons are different to Empire Griffons, so they'd need to make a new model for Stormwing as well. Imrik you could slap on a Caledor-barded horse and a succession of dragons and call it a day.

    I do think, though, that on the 'combat variability' side, Imrik does have something to offer than other High Elf LLs do not: a flying bruiser who, unlike Tyrion, is oriented towards fighting multiple enemies at once rather than duelling a single foe. Eltharion on Stormwing can play in this field as well, but he'd be split between magic, melee, and ranged (Eltharion has a longbow in his TT rules) while Imrik would be pure melee bruiser.

    The flipside is, of course, that the Prince offers similar functionality, but he wouldn't be the first LL who is essentially an upgrade of a generic lord.

    Timpeyo said:

    I'd like Grom but he would be neither a range or assassin, maybe a healer off sort with high Def and rejuvenation to make him diffrent, heal his goblins with food. Or they could have archers or crossbow mounted on his chariot

    Honestly characters like Snagla Grobspit or Gtilla the Hunta' seem like they would offer more in terms of lord variety to the Greenskins than Grom would. All Grom really has going for him is his rivalry with Eltharion.
    True enough, although to play Grom's advocate, the combination of chariot and Regeneration could make for a heavily cycle-charging focused lord. Arguably that might be close to what Azhag can do with Skullmuncha, but Grom wouldn't be vulnerable to flyers (unless he also gets Doomserpent as a final mount).
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Draculasaurus

    I agree completely with this. CA obviously looks for a theme of units + lords they can bring and focus more on bringing gameplay and campaign variety to the game rather than looking for the one who is the most lore friendly.

    Based on the roles they have missing I would say that the Dwarfs are very likely to get an Engineer Lord, Runelord and Ranged Lord (Thorek, Grimm and Kazador)

    The Lizardmen are missing an Assassin (Oxyotl)

    Skaven and Dark Elves are missing an entire Lord type so Beastmaster and Master Moulder are on their way.

    High Elves are missing a lord with a powerful mount: Eltharion as DLC, Imrik as FLC? (because they already have a prince on a dragon in game)

    I honestly think that the Empire might not get a FLC lord because they still have loads of things missing and because they are kind of the Protagonist faction so CA would want to A: do them justice and B: sell them as many times as they can because they are one of the most played factions.

    With that in mind, I still Imagine we will see a Elsbeth Von Draken DLC (with Wissenland and Ranged gunpowder units), a Kurt Helborg DLC (with Cav and Crusader Units) and a Middenland DLC (With Ulric units)

    Elsbeth could bring the Wizard Lord, Empire Engineer as well as all the units

    Kurt could bring the Grand Master with him

    Ulrican faction could bring the high Priests of ulric and possibly a grand master variant along with all their units
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,535Registered Users
    edited September 4
    Draxynnic said:

    Arsenic said:


    Wood Elves - The Wood Elves have a hybrid melee/ranged lord and a hybrid monstrous/caster lord. They have no dedicated caster at all, and that seems like the reasonable direction for them to go.

    High Elves - The High Elves are very well rounded, but the one lord type they really lack is a hybrid lord of some sort.
    Ariel(I know, I know. Say her name, and he will come..) is a pure caster, for the WE, and Eltharion a melee lord with access to a handful of spells for the HE.


    But the latter isn't an option, because I want Prince Imrik.
    Eltharion would probably need to be a DLC. High Elf griffons are different to Empire Griffons, so they'd need to make a new model for Stormwing as well. Imrik you could slap on a Caledor-barded horse and a succession of dragons and call it a day.

    I do think, though, that on the 'combat variability' side, Imrik does have something to offer than other High Elf LLs do not: a flying bruiser who, unlike Tyrion, is oriented towards fighting multiple enemies at once rather than duelling a single foe. Eltharion on Stormwing can play in this field as well, but he'd be split between magic, melee, and ranged (Eltharion has a longbow in his TT rules) while Imrik would be pure melee bruiser.

    The flipside is, of course, that the Prince offers similar functionality, but he wouldn't be the first LL who is essentially an upgrade of a generic lord.

    Timpeyo said:

    I'd like Grom but he would be neither a range or assassin, maybe a healer off sort with high Def and rejuvenation to make him diffrent, heal his goblins with food. Or they could have archers or crossbow mounted on his chariot

    Honestly characters like Snagla Grobspit or Gtilla the Hunta' seem like they would offer more in terms of lord variety to the Greenskins than Grom would. All Grom really has going for him is his rivalry with Eltharion.
    True enough, although to play Grom's advocate, the combination of chariot and Regeneration could make for a heavily cycle-charging focused lord. Arguably that might be close to what Azhag can do with Skullmuncha, but Grom wouldn't be vulnerable to flyers (unless he also gets Doomserpent as a final mount).
    They are wee bit smaller, armourless and more colourful. To me it sounds like CA's favourite kind of unit: rescale and recolor.

    @Draculasaurus

    I agree completely with this. CA obviously looks for a theme of units + lords they can bring and focus more on bringing gameplay and campaign variety to the game rather than looking for the one who is the most lore friendly.

    Based on the roles they have missing I would say that the Dwarfs are very likely to get an Engineer Lord, Runelord and Ranged Lord (Thorek, Grimm and Kazador)

    The Lizardmen are missing an Assassin (Oxyotl)

    Skaven and Dark Elves are missing an entire Lord type so Beastmaster and Master Moulder are on their way.

    High Elves are missing a lord with a powerful mount: Eltharion as DLC, Imrik as FLC? (because they already have a prince on a dragon in game)

    I honestly think that the Empire might not get a FLC lord because they still have loads of things missing and because they are kind of the Protagonist faction so CA would want to A: do them justice and B: sell them as many times as they can because they are one of the most played factions.

    With that in mind, I still Imagine we will see a Elsbeth Von Draken DLC (with Wissenland and Ranged gunpowder units), a Kurt Helborg DLC (with Cav and Crusader Units) and a Middenland DLC (With Ulric units)

    Elsbeth could bring the Wizard Lord, Empire Engineer as well as all the units

    Kurt could bring the Grand Master with him

    Ulrican faction could bring the high Priests of ulric and possibly a grand master variant along with all their units

    Let's add griffons to princes. It will solve the problem if there is any with them having a dragon mount. Voila Prince Imrik DLC!
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • Zogash85Zogash85 Posts: 59Registered Users



    Let's add griffons to princes. It will solve the problem if there is any with them having a dragon mount. Voila Prince Imrik DLC!

    I agree. Of course, they would have to incentivize people to take a griffon instead of the (obviously superior) dragons, e.g. by locking the dragon behind the Prince's personal combat skill tree - want to have a great fighter on a dragon? You'll have to sacrifice red and blue skills you might like to have to buff your army.

    Also an Imrik DLC/FLC would be a great opportunity to introduce Caledorian Dragon Mages - armor-wearing fire mages riding sun dragons. There is already a mod for them (and it's sweeeet), but it'd be nice to see them introduced officially.

    And of course I wouldn't say no to finally getting archmage lords. :)
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Maedrethnir

    Princes having a dragon is not an issue. I was saying that FLC lords are usually heavily based in assets already in the game.

    Imrik is a prince with a dragon. he himself may look different and hopefully he would have some new animations but the assets for him are almost entirely in the game already.

    the Only unique unit that could be tied to Caledors theme specifically would be the dragon mage and again, we already have the assets for that in game (princess on a dragon). so a Caledor FLC would be similar to an Alith Anar FLC with a unique unit coming along with it (since both the Dragon mage and Lord are conversions of things that already exist in game in that faction).

    Eltharion, as we have discussed before, has a great connection to the sea and to Grom the Paunch, their rivalry DLC is less a matter of "if" and more a matter of "when". Yvresse is the most Sea focused factions out of the remaining possibilities and could bring many units with him. We don't yet have Griffin mounts with a game 2 race and so his implementation may be more difficalt. also, if they go with "Eltharion the Blind" for his foot lord variant then he would be our first Swordmaster of Hoeth lord.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Maedrethnir

    Caledor could be a very interesting faction mechanically with the awakening of ancient dragons, vauls anvil and they could also have some expedition mechanic where they are encoraged to fight abroad.

    I see alot of potential there and I hope they are done justice, but from looking at their lord and their Unique unit, it seems more like a FLC include to me. Both Yvresse and Chrace have a connection to 3+ units, give or take and their lords would not be drawn from lord assets we have seen in a game 2 faction before (Korhil is a white lion with two great axes, Eltharion is a Swordmaster of hoeth who rides a Griffin).
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    @Maedrethnir

    actually, now that I think about it, giving the Generic Lords Dragon mounts is a bit too Crazy and I could see swapping them out for Griffins being more thematic and making Imrik more unique. Perhaps that is something that should be done.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,535Registered Users
    edited September 4
    Zogash85 said:



    Let's add griffons to princes. It will solve the problem if there is any with them having a dragon mount. Voila Prince Imrik DLC!

    I agree. Of course, they would have to incentivize people to take a griffon instead of the (obviously superior) dragons, e.g. by locking the dragon behind the Prince's personal combat skill tree - want to have a great fighter on a dragon? You'll have to sacrifice red and blue skills you might like to have to buff your army.

    Also an Imrik DLC/FLC would be a great opportunity to introduce Caledorian Dragon Mages - armor-wearing fire mages riding sun dragons. There is already a mod for them (and it's sweeeet), but it'd be nice to see them introduced officially.

    And of course I wouldn't say no to finally getting archmage lords. :)
    Fine taste detected. I appreciate people with noble palates. In good company even spam tastes great. Not that it tastes bad on its own.

    @Maedrethnir

    Princes having a dragon is not an issue. I was saying that FLC lords are usually heavily based in assets already in the game.

    Imrik is a prince with a dragon. he himself may look different and hopefully he would have some new animations but the assets for him are almost entirely in the game already.

    the Only unique unit that could be tied to Caledors theme specifically would be the dragon mage and again, we already have the assets for that in game (princess on a dragon). so a Caledor FLC would be similar to an Alith Anar FLC with a unique unit coming along with it (since both the Dragon mage and Lord are conversions of things that already exist in game in that faction).

    Eltharion, as we have discussed before, has a great connection to the sea and to Grom the Paunch, their rivalry DLC is less a matter of "if" and more a matter of "when". Yvresse is the most Sea focused factions out of the remaining possibilities and could bring many units with him. We don't yet have Griffin mounts with a game 2 race and so his implementation may be more difficalt. also, if they go with "Eltharion the Blind" for his foot lord variant then he would be our first Swordmaster of Hoeth lord.

    But Prince Imrik has unique model and so do Dragon Mages. If we are going by missing units then it should be Aislinn. Griffon models are more or less done, small edits to Game1 model is what CA would do most probably.

    @Maedrethnir

    Caledor could be a very interesting faction mechanically with the awakening of ancient dragons, vauls anvil and they could also have some expedition mechanic where they are encoraged to fight abroad.

    I see alot of potential there and I hope they are done justice, but from looking at their lord and their Unique unit, it seems more like a FLC include to me. Both Yvresse and Chrace have a connection to 3+ units, give or take and their lords would not be drawn from lord assets we have seen in a game 2 faction before (Korhil is a white lion with two great axes, Eltharion is a Swordmaster of hoeth who rides a Griffin).

    Chrace: Pride of War Lions, White Lion Chariot

    Yvresse: 0 units of its own

    Caledor: Dragon Mage

    Aislinn: Lothern Skycutter - 2 variants, Merwyrm, Sea Helm,

    Technically Imrik too requires a new model, even Minaithnir colouration is different. There is not much difference in this department between him and Eltharion. Except for the fact that Imrik's inclusion open up chance for wider model variety among the HE dragons. That Caledor is far more unique. And that it would require a lot of resources to graciously carve out dragon caverns UI. Then there is a matter of making dragons speak as they should.

    Oh and there is a need for new mounted animations for Imrik as he would start on his prettie, little horsie. Lance here and lance there, truly a lance a lot.

    @Maedrethnir

    actually, now that I think about it, giving the Generic Lords Dragon mounts is a bit too Crazy and I could see swapping them out for Griffins being more thematic and making Imrik more unique. Perhaps that is something that should be done.

    Now that's one bridge too far. High Loremaster, it's him, yes, the one!
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

Sign In or Register to comment.