The Dread Saurian needs more missile resistance

Nielspeterdejong

https://youtu.be/Z6mPsdv2iHY?t=7536

Just look at how fast he melts! That's around 4000 points worth of gold.

The Dread Saurians need more missile resistance. Otherwise he is simply not worth taking in competetive play. Which would be a shame, since I absolutely love the model!


PS: And on that note, I also hope that CA will revert the range nerf on the Ancient sally. I miss having an actual artillery unit for the LM. And perhaps give some love to the extremely underwhelming Ripperdactyl? Something like contact damage + more mass?

Sir_Godspeed#8395

Well, before this is taken any further, keep in mind that it's a lightning rod, having everyone focus fire on it is part of the reason you take it. That will account for a lot of damage regardless.

Lord_Distamorfin#1941

Sir_Godspeed said:

Well, before this is taken any further, keep in mind that it's a lightning rod, having everyone focus fire on it is part of the reason you take it. That will account for a lot of damage regardless.

It should play more of a role than just a Distraction Carnifex.

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

To be fair a 4k gold model was always going to struggle in competitive play. And being so huge it'll always be vulnerable to focused ranged.

Sir_Godspeed#8395

Lord_Distamorfin said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

Well, before this is taken any further, keep in mind that it's a lightning rod, having everyone focus fire on it is part of the reason you take it. That will account for a lot of damage regardless.

It should play more of a role than just a Distraction Carnifex.

It will be a distraction carnifex no matter what you do with it.

Until, for course, you buff it so much it becomes OP.

Nielspeterdejong

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

To be fair a 4k gold model was always going to struggle in competitive play. And being so huge it'll always be vulnerable to focused ranged.

Exactly! Which is why it is so frustrating that they didn’t give it more missile resistance with that huge hit box.

Without missile resistance, that unit will never be worth 4000 gold. Turin lost the game because 4000 of his resources melted within seconds without having any significant impact.

Udoroth

Nielspeterdejong said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

To be fair a 4k gold model was always going to struggle in competitive play. And being so huge it'll always be vulnerable to focused ranged.

Exactly! Which is why it is so frustrating that they didn’t give it more missile resistance with that huge hit box.

Without missile resistance, that unit will never be worth 4000 gold. Turin lost the game because 4000 of his resources melted within seconds without having any significant impact.

So you want it to be more resistant to ranged AND on top of that it’s already massively dangerous to melee

Do you want the only counter it to be overcast ST magic spells?

Beast_of_Guanyin#8747

Nielspeterdejong said:

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

To be fair a 4k gold model was always going to struggle in competitive play. And being so huge it'll always be vulnerable to focused ranged.

Exactly! Which is why it is so frustrating that they didn’t give it more missile resistance with that huge hit box.

Without missile resistance, that unit will never be worth 4000 gold. Turin lost the game because 4000 of his resources melted within seconds without having any significant impact.

Oh pasta, that's 2 hours of youtube. I'm not scrolling through it to find that.

It'll probably be never worth it anyway unless it's really OP. The counter to it is supposed to be ranged fire. Make its ranged resistance high enough so that's not effective then the only counter is gang bashing it. Being so powerful means it's in a rough spot balance wise.

Nielspeterdejong

I’m not talking about the KFC chicken levels of missile resistance. Just enough that the Saurian won’t melt *that* fast.

I’d love to see them in competitive as well.

Angmir

OP is riddiculous. He wants to have a Monster that will be fine while taking all the attention from enemy.
Its like you asked enemy in MMO RPG Game to not attack healers in your team ,..

Thats the fate of super powerfull units - enemy will be a fool to let it live - so he must kill it ASAP with all means avaliable, If you take it - you must embrace it, and simply use the time enemy waste on dealing with Dread Saurian to defeat him.

Focusing everything he has on Dread Saurian enemy looses ammo, time, his attencion and potencial damage he could deal to the rest of your army on that 1 unit. He also looses his initiative - untill the beast is dead. Now you also want to rid your oponent from only way of victory against that monster.

You might as well ask for Dread Saurian to be Immortal.

Like people say - this is a fate of super-expensive units in MP. Such OP creatures are made mostly for SP - in SP your Dread Saurian will easly win you all types of battles.

Jastalll#1030

I do think that at their price point, they should have some more missile resistance. A 2300 gold (for the mildly affordable version) distraction carnifex that dies to any and all focus fire is just too expensive, but I feel that the Dread Saurian should be super expensive and powerful to distinguish it. So rather than a price drop, I'd rather see his biggest weakness get addressed somewhat.

JDog91

I'm a bit concerned the Dread Saurian has been balanced far too conservatively for the sake of MP balance.

I think they need a general boost to a few stats, with a price increase if necessary. Heck, Turin doesn't even think they're worth their base price, but I'd rather see them buffed than price reduced as they should be a bloody fun unit above all else with a stupid MP cost to discourage use. They shouldn't even be in MP as far as I'm concerned.

Boombastek

Nielspeterdejong said:

https://youtu.be/Z6mPsdv2iHY?t=7536

Just look at how fast he melts! That's around 4000 points worth of gold.

The Dread Saurians need more missile resistance. Otherwise he is simply not worth taking in competetive play. Which would be a shame, since I absolutely love the model!


PS: And on that note, I also hope that CA will revert the range nerf on the Ancient sally. I miss having an actual artillery unit for the LM. And perhaps give some love to the extremely underwhelming Ripperdactyl? Something like contact damage + more mass?

Dread Saurian just must be used with Slaan mage.

44% ward and if lore life 22% physical resistance.

But i too think Dread Saurian need buff, +6 MD would be enough.

EarthDragon

ANYTHING being used in "War Elephant" capacity absolutely should have strong missile resist. They just don't do much to a beast with that big of a hide, so even their AP properties need to be toned down.

20% MINIMUM is my opinion

Boombastek

EarthDragon said:

ANYTHING being used in "War Elephant" capacity absolutely should have strong missile resist. They just don't do much to a beast with that big of a hide, so even their AP properties need to be toned down.

20% MINIMUM is my opinion

Right now they had 15%.

Deep_echo_sound#4293

They need +4 attack and + 4 defense as start bonuses. And +200 gold on feral version. Because, huge price difference, of 900 minimum, makes other 2 variants obsolete.
And no cap in campaign.

Djau#5149

The Dread Saurian is already ridiculous and is going to focus units away from the rest of the pretty ridic Lizardman army (who needs to be re-evaluated and some nerfs applied). If he gets any stronger to missiles, its going to cause a lot of problems.

Nielspeterdejong

Amonkhet said:

The Dread Saurian is already ridiculous and is going to focus units away from the rest of the pretty ridic Lizardman army (who needs to be re-evaluated and some nerfs applied). If he gets any stronger to missiles, its going to cause a lot of problems.

Turin lost that battle because the Dread Saurian WAS pretty much the Lizardmen army at that point.

He had invested 4000 gold in that thing. And yet it melted in seconds to a 800 gold canon! So far the Lizardmen has lost most of those battles!

Sagranda

The first battle where I have seen with the Dread Saurian it hold up over one and a half minute against Malekith on Seraphon and two units of Dark Riders + some damage from a Cold One Chariot.
While it got buffed at the beginning through magic, Malekith also used Word of Pain basically on coolddown against it.
That's against around 4.2k points.

Even in the time-stamp of the OP the Dread Saurian was constantly attacked by Luthor Lord and 3 to 4 units if I have seen it correctly. It held a bit over a minute until morale broke.

Looks like it's not as bad as some want to make it out to be.
That's not saying that there probably is some tweaking needed.

Lotus_Moon#2452

I rather it be released UP than buffed than risk in being released OP and ruing ranked for few months....(AKA jezzails)

Nielspeterdejong

Honestly, the Ripperdactyl and Ancient Sally have been UP for a long time now.

Just giving back the Ancient Salamander her old range would be enough.

For the Ripperdactyl however, they are a specialized unit that is supposed to quickly take out infantry, and then move out. It does none of that. Giving them more mass and contact damage would go a long way! Especially with that HUGE price tag on them.

Lotus_Moon#2452

ancient sally is amazing no freaking way it needs a cost reduction or any buffs

Trotrorigolo

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

Lotus_Moon#2452

Trotrorigolo said:

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

You're assuming its not balanced at the moment and want it buffed.

Most others assume its balanced at the moment so any buffs risk of making it OP, they worried about making anything OP because of past experience.

Trotrorigolo

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

You're assuming its not balanced at the moment and want it buffed.

Most others assume its balanced at the moment so any buffs risk of making it OP, they worried about making anything OP because of past experience.

no men, most other people assume that it is useless righ now, and so many good player say that it is not competitive, than I can assure you it's not.

Lotus_Moon#2452

Trotrorigolo said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

You're assuming its not balanced at the moment and want it buffed.

Most others assume its balanced at the moment so any buffs risk of making it OP, they worried about making anything OP because of past experience.

no men, most other people assume that it is useless righ now, and so many good player say that it is not competitive, than I can assure you it's not.

It smashes any other monster in the game, looks quite in the rite spot cost wise where it should be.

Trotrorigolo

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

You're assuming its not balanced at the moment and want it buffed.

Most others assume its balanced at the moment so any buffs risk of making it OP, they worried about making anything OP because of past experience.

no men, most other people assume that it is useless righ now, and so many good player say that it is not competitive, than I can assure you it's not.

It smashes any other monster in the game, looks quite in the rite spot cost wise where it should be.

That's not how the game work you know, it cost more than double all the other "monster", it better kills them...

But at this price it better do more than just kill a monster on a 1v1 senario, it needs to be more, again not an op monster, but something worth investing more than 2800 pts.

If you can't understand that than you might not be the good person to talk balance with...

Balance is not just a 1 unit vs 1 unit scenario...

Lotus_Moon#2452

Trotrorigolo said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

You're assuming its not balanced at the moment and want it buffed.

Most others assume its balanced at the moment so any buffs risk of making it OP, they worried about making anything OP because of past experience.

no men, most other people assume that it is useless righ now, and so many good player say that it is not competitive, than I can assure you it's not.

It smashes any other monster in the game, looks quite in the rite spot cost wise where it should be.

That's not how the game work you know, it cost more than double all the other "monster", it better kills them...

But at this price it better do more than just kill a monster on a 1v1 senario, it needs to be more, again not an op monster, but something worth investing more than 2800 pts.

If you can't understand that than you might not be the good person to talk balance with...

Balance is not just a 1 unit vs 1 unit scenario...

it smashes any other mosnter int he game with 3/4 of its HP left..... what more do you want?

Trotrorigolo

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

You're assuming its not balanced at the moment and want it buffed.

Most others assume its balanced at the moment so any buffs risk of making it OP, they worried about making anything OP because of past experience.

no men, most other people assume that it is useless righ now, and so many good player say that it is not competitive, than I can assure you it's not.

It smashes any other monster in the game, looks quite in the rite spot cost wise where it should be.

That's not how the game work you know, it cost more than double all the other "monster", it better kills them...

But at this price it better do more than just kill a monster on a 1v1 senario, it needs to be more, again not an op monster, but something worth investing more than 2800 pts.

If you can't understand that than you might not be the good person to talk balance with...

Balance is not just a 1 unit vs 1 unit scenario...

it smashes any other mosnter int he game with 3/4 of its HP left..... what more do you want?

to not just good in 1v1, being able to 1v1 every other monster doesn't make you good..
For a long time grimgor was the best 1v1 in all the game, yet it was never taken cause nàot worth it

What I wan't :
- His attack range to be up, in order to properly attack it's target in a mele brawl insteed of just freezing for 10 sec, doing nothing except reciving damage
- Up his mass, it is supposed to be th"e biggest monster in the game after all
- add a little bit more a damage resistance

EarthDragon

Trotrorigolo said:

Lotus_Moon said:

Trotrorigolo said:

Honeslty guys if you think the only way to balance this thing is to make it op, than you don't have a lot of imagination...

Just add a massive amount of mass to this unit (after all it's the BIGGEST one of the game), and add very few more missile resist to not be melted in 2 sec, and voila

You're assuming its not balanced at the moment and want it buffed.

Most others assume its balanced at the moment so any buffs risk of making it OP, they worried about making anything OP because of past experience.

no men, most other people assume that it is useless righ now, and so many good player say that it is not competitive, than I can assure you it's not.

You obviously have never played Magic the Gathering. Many a card have been called "useless" by all the experts just to be worth $40 a piece 6 months later