Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

About Crossbowmen and HE archers

2»

Comments

  • Smitty404Smitty404 Posts: 302Registered Users

    i keep hearing this missinformation over and its been shown and proven each time that its not true.

    Dwarf cannons SMASHES BT, so does empire cannon, even if you account for cost. DO some testing please.

    BT performe WORSE than cannon vs ALLLLLL possible targets, please do some tests.

    Cannons dmg output is the same as BT while using 1/2 the ammo, its not even funny how much better cannons are vs cav also or when getting flank shots.

    If you compare cannon to BT than it seems as cannons need +250g, which obviously im not suggesting, just that BT is quite **** when you cmpare the two.

    hopefully this patch makes multi shot worth it and the BT cost will be justified.

    Why are you comparing HE BT only to Dwarf cannons when HE BT can easily snipe Hellcannons which are much more expensive and other artillery units as well?

    Dwarfs are supposed to have excellent artillery.

  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 1,357Registered Users
    edited September 8
    Smitty404 said:

    i keep hearing this missinformation over and its been shown and proven each time that its not true.

    Dwarf cannons SMASHES BT, so does empire cannon, even if you account for cost. DO some testing please.

    BT performe WORSE than cannon vs ALLLLLL possible targets, please do some tests.

    Cannons dmg output is the same as BT while using 1/2 the ammo, its not even funny how much better cannons are vs cav also or when getting flank shots.

    If you compare cannon to BT than it seems as cannons need +250g, which obviously im not suggesting, just that BT is quite **** when you cmpare the two.

    hopefully this patch makes multi shot worth it and the BT cost will be justified.

    Why are you comparing HE BT only to Dwarf cannons when HE BT can easily snipe Hellcannons which are much more expensive and other artillery units as well?

    Dwarfs are supposed to have excellent artillery.

    Because if an HE BT can do it, a cannon can do it better. A cannon can kill a hellcannon as easily as a BT, all while being far more versatile vs all targets, all while having way more potential damage over the course of a game.

    In artillery duels -

    BT loses to empire and dwarf cannon, whether it starts out of range or in range.

    BT 50-50's a WLC, widely considered the worst flat arc arty piece for dueling.

    BT beats a carronade

    Vs cav - Cannons are far better, a single good projectile(not even volley) can sometimes kill as many cav models as two perfect BT volleys, all while being harder to dodge.

    VS SEM's - The two are closer, but the cannon still has greater DPS, and significantly more damage over time.

    Even vs infantry - Cannon can plow through formations, often killing enough models to do as much damage as a scattershot would do.

    Cannon has greater projectile velocity, making it tougher to dodge.

    Cannon has 60-70 more range than HE BT, which is significant when killing long range artillery, since it means i can push up a cannon into CB range of queen bess or something without having to expose many if any units to protect it from enemy counter attack, plus gives you a way larger area of denial.

    All for a mere 100 more gold.
    Regularly publish Total War: Warhammer 2 content on my YT channel

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPI93p-X2T4YKD18O16bhPw
  • MTechMTech Posts: 385Registered Users
    @Wyvern2

    Kinda like comparing the Dwf BT to the HE BT isn't it.
    Better stats and performance coupled with increased versatility all in one Artillery pice.

    I don't get the obsession with comparing Cannons to BT when a perfectly fine candidate to compare it against is available.

    Cannons obviously come in completely different factions and would indeed be OP if available in the HE roster, so just give me one reason why a 100g cheaper unit should be as good as the best artillery in the game?

    But yeah i get it HE stuff can only be compared to the best things from other factions and Cannons are 350g (lol) better then the HE BT of course.

    Sure let the HE BT beat every other artillery in the game so it can finally use its flamecannon ammo to deal with everything else.

  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 1,357Registered Users
    MTech said:

    @Wyvern2

    Kinda like comparing the Dwf BT to the HE BT isn't it.
    Better stats and performance coupled with increased versatility all in one Artillery pice.

    I don't get the obsession with comparing Cannons to BT when a perfectly fine candidate to compare it against is available.

    Cannons obviously come in completely different factions and would indeed be OP if available in the HE roster, so just give me one reason why a 100g cheaper unit should be as good as the best artillery in the game?

    But yeah i get it HE stuff can only be compared to the best things from other factions and Cannons are 350g (lol) better then the HE BT of course.

    Sure let the HE BT beat every other artillery in the game so it can finally use its flamecannon ammo to deal with everything else.

    Did you make a single salient argument in there? Is there even a point to what you're saying?

    A BT doesn't have the versatility of a cannon. It has more versatility than a dwarf BT. It is priced between the two, which seems relatively fair, but given that one of the firing modes for the BT is currently near trash tier, its arguably overpriced, since you basically have a dwarf BT with 40 more range.
    Regularly publish Total War: Warhammer 2 content on my YT channel

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPI93p-X2T4YKD18O16bhPw
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,757Registered Users
    Smitty404 said:

    i keep hearing this missinformation over and its been shown and proven each time that its not true.

    Dwarf cannons SMASHES BT, so does empire cannon, even if you account for cost. DO some testing please.

    BT performe WORSE than cannon vs ALLLLLL possible targets, please do some tests.

    Cannons dmg output is the same as BT while using 1/2 the ammo, its not even funny how much better cannons are vs cav also or when getting flank shots.

    If you compare cannon to BT than it seems as cannons need +250g, which obviously im not suggesting, just that BT is quite **** when you cmpare the two.

    hopefully this patch makes multi shot worth it and the BT cost will be justified.

    Why are you comparing HE BT only to Dwarf cannons when HE BT can easily snipe Hellcannons which are much more expensive and other artillery units as well?

    Dwarfs are supposed to have excellent artillery.

    Test cannon vs hellcannon than and see who kills it quicker a BT or a cannon.

    Heck even dwarf BT can snipe hellcannon and costs 150g less than HE BT.

    IF you compare Dwarf BT to HE one than dwarf one is better for their cost, after this patch i do think it will be even due to multi shot hopefully being useful.
  • ElectorOfWurttembergElectorOfWurttemberg Posts: 1,929Registered Users
    ECBT is very competent unit for the price and faction it is in and is a common pick for the HE. It would be cool to see multi-shot more often but not sure what you can fit into a 700g unit. It's pretty cost efficient as is.


    To the point, I'm not quite sure why it keeps coming up, it has never been a bad unit, it has never been an under powered unit, or a unit that isn't competitive.
    Faith, Steel and Gunpowder Bows
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,757Registered Users

    ECBT is very competent unit for the price and faction it is in and is a common pick for the HE. It would be cool to see multi-shot more often but not sure what you can fit into a 700g unit. It's pretty cost efficient as is.


    To the point, I'm not quite sure why it keeps coming up, it has never been a bad unit, it has never been an under powered unit, or a unit that isn't competitive.

    I agree with that statement, the issue is that many seem to have wrong impression that it smashes cannons etc which is not true.

    Though multi shot has been crap for along time.

    I do think after this change it be in great spot.


    Though thats the HE one, the DE one needs its range up to be same as HE one.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,648Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Posts that include personal derogatory remarks about members have been removed.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
Sign In or Register to comment.