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And what about the variation for the Saurus? Perhaps they could gain that instead?
No, I think making units unbreakable for a short duration is too much. If timed properly you can restore a units LD completely. Issue isn't so much the effect, but it's the fact that it's essentially free.
1: Grant all Lizardmen units an additional 10% bonus missile resistance on top of their current ones, similar to how the Dwarfs have at least 25% magic resistance. This way their huge monsters won’t melt, and it fits the Mayan theme of rushing warriors. Plus it represents their tabletop scaly skins trait
2: Make it so that their Cold blooded ability also gives the affected target a bonus to their Melee Defense and more Missile Resistance. This will allow more uses for your Cold Blooded ability, and will also make it more thematic.
Lizardmen are tier 1 and have favorable matchups with many factions. You guys are seriously asking for buffs? What about you try beating them in MP before asking for buffs.
Their infantry never rout and they are strong as hell. They have the best monsters and tons of lords and magic lore to choose from.
Meanwhile us beastmen have 4 lords with only 1 viable. Our gorebulls are ineffective. We only have 4 magic lore. Our midtier infantry lose to LM lowtier infantry.
Plenty of difficult ones, empire, dwf, voast, tombs. Barely any easy really. Maybe what bret, vamps? Beastman, nosca, orks, aint exactly 100% autofarm either. This patch does nothing but screw em hard. Even slann count as monster slot lol.....
Difficult matchups? right now probably Tomb Kings, Vampirates, Dwarves, Skaven
Mostly even matchups are Empire, Dark Elves, Wood Elves
Favorable matchups looking a lot like Beastmen, Norsca, Greenskins, Vampires, Bretonnia, High Elves, Chaos
This is of course with warhammer king's cup tournament rules. Obviously, that doesn't mean that lizardmen never lose matchups they're favored in, but oftentimes competitively even for difficult matchups player skill and experience in a particular matchup plays a huge part. You can say "Lizardmen can make up to 4 mistakes and still win while Beastmen can only make up to 2" for example, but if both players only make 1 mistake then that kind of cancels out. Doesn't mean it's suddenly an even matchup, it just means the relative skill of players is up there. Additionally, many of the videos shown on youtube of Lizardmen losing are in unfavorable matchups. Skaven, Vampire Coast, Tomb Kings (especially the first 2) made up quite a few of their matchups possibly due to the large changes to all 3 factions and youtubers probably wanting to showcase these.
There is also selection bias for close games due to the youtube culture that sprung up around "knowing who was going to win by the player colors". I think that oftentimes youtubers are trying to show these videos of a particular faction very narrowly losing an unfavorable matchup to show the kinds of tactics that are used by high level players to win these difficult matchups, yet always people hone in on the least important thing which is who won. Not accusing anyone here of anything either, but people who push the narrative that X faction sucks because it loses all the time seem to always conveniently miss the occasions where they do win.
So, TLDR: Lizardmen are maybe not the soul crushing faction that Vampire Coast was at release but still good.
Taking a faction that was totally broken at release, still broken several patches later, and only now balanced but very strong is not a very good metric. Depth Guard killing armies on their own? Noctilus completely unkillable? Deckhand chaff killing out similar priced infantry and providing an insane meat shield? Power level of nehek and summons pre adjustment? Mournguls with a -better than all other monsters in their price class- statline and terror? Sniperbats murdering leadership in low missile presence factions?
or let me go to Skaven Doom Flayers killing anything they come in contact with that isn't a monster? Jezzails with pinpoint accuracy and high range?
Let me pose this question as well, again no offense to anyone. If lizardmen are so bad, why do people keep taking them when there's something at stake? Are they trying to lose on purpose? That doesn't make any sense.
This kind of topic really grinds my gears. Sorry. At one point it was High Elves right around the peak of their power, then it was Dark Elves, and now Lizardmen. Why are we hounding CA for making a DLC that introduces units that are actually balanced if not on the weaker side for once? I would be happy to see buffs to these units should they prove to be underperforming, but does anyone ever feel good about nerfs? Even if it's warranted? The exception in this DLC is Markus' outrageous sniping potential for a very affordable cost, but again, I don't think using things that are clearly overpowered is a good metric for how other units should be balanced in favor of. Just my opinion.
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0 · Disagree Agree"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts - for support rather than illumination." (Andrew Lang)
|Takeda| Yokota Takatoshi
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"We wunt be druv".
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0 · Disagree Agree1: Grant all Lizardmen units an additional 10% bonus missile resistance on top of their current ones, similar to how the Dwarfs have at least 25% magic resistance. This way their huge monsters won’t melt, and it fits the Mayan theme of rushing warriors. Plus it represents their tabletop scaly skins trait
2: Make it so that their Cold blooded ability also gives the affected target a bonus to their Melee Defense and more Missile Resistance. This will allow more uses for your Cold Blooded ability, and will also make it more thematic.
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-2 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeLizardmen > beastmen
Lizardmen > norsca
Lizardmen > bretonnia
Lizardmen > chaos
Their infantry never rout and they are strong as hell. They have the best monsters and tons of lords and magic lore to choose from.
Meanwhile us beastmen have 4 lords with only 1 viable. Our gorebulls are ineffective. We only have 4 magic lore. Our midtier infantry lose to LM lowtier infantry.
Like... really LM needs buffs? 👎
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1 · Disagree AgreeWant to play?
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0 · Disagree AgreeTop #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
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0 · Disagree AgreeTomb Kings, Vampirates, Dwarves, Skaven
Mostly even matchups are
Empire, Dark Elves, Wood Elves
Favorable matchups looking a lot like
Beastmen, Norsca, Greenskins, Vampires, Bretonnia, High Elves, Chaos
This is of course with warhammer king's cup tournament rules. Obviously, that doesn't mean that lizardmen never lose matchups they're favored in, but oftentimes competitively even for difficult matchups player skill and experience in a particular matchup plays a huge part. You can say "Lizardmen can make up to 4 mistakes and still win while Beastmen can only make up to 2" for example, but if both players only make 1 mistake then that kind of cancels out. Doesn't mean it's suddenly an even matchup, it just means the relative skill of players is up there. Additionally, many of the videos shown on youtube of Lizardmen losing are in unfavorable matchups. Skaven, Vampire Coast, Tomb Kings (especially the first 2) made up quite a few of their matchups possibly due to the large changes to all 3 factions and youtubers probably wanting to showcase these.
There is also selection bias for close games due to the youtube culture that sprung up around "knowing who was going to win by the player colors". I think that oftentimes youtubers are trying to show these videos of a particular faction very narrowly losing an unfavorable matchup to show the kinds of tactics that are used by high level players to win these difficult matchups, yet always people hone in on the least important thing which is who won. Not accusing anyone here of anything either, but people who push the narrative that X faction sucks because it loses all the time seem to always conveniently miss the occasions where they do win.
So, TLDR: Lizardmen are maybe not the soul crushing faction that Vampire Coast was at release but still good.
Taking a faction that was totally broken at release, still broken several patches later, and only now balanced but very strong is not a very good metric. Depth Guard killing armies on their own? Noctilus completely unkillable? Deckhand chaff killing out similar priced infantry and providing an insane meat shield? Power level of nehek and summons pre adjustment? Mournguls with a -better than all other monsters in their price class- statline and terror? Sniperbats murdering leadership in low missile presence factions?
or let me go to Skaven
Doom Flayers killing anything they come in contact with that isn't a monster? Jezzails with pinpoint accuracy and high range?
Let me pose this question as well, again no offense to anyone. If lizardmen are so bad, why do people keep taking them when there's something at stake? Are they trying to lose on purpose? That doesn't make any sense.
This kind of topic really grinds my gears. Sorry. At one point it was High Elves right around the peak of their power, then it was Dark Elves, and now Lizardmen. Why are we hounding CA for making a DLC that introduces units that are actually balanced if not on the weaker side for once? I would be happy to see buffs to these units should they prove to be underperforming, but does anyone ever feel good about nerfs? Even if it's warranted? The exception in this DLC is Markus' outrageous sniping potential for a very affordable cost, but again, I don't think using things that are clearly overpowered is a good metric for how other units should be balanced in favor of. Just my opinion.
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4 · Disagree Agree