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Total War games favor Intel over AMD?

Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users
Hi,

This is a question which popped while i was in the proces of testing Thrones of Britannia with the new GPU.
In all fairness i have to say that the results were fairly disappointing but... I can live with that.
As you can see in the screenshots, with a system that is Way above recommended both in cpu, gpu and memory values I struggle to find an solid 60 fps in the benchmarks.
Some restraints might be the cause of the cpu r5 2600 restricting the 2600S ( which is regarded as a 3 gb card btw? ) but still all in all it is below my expectations. I might go for the amd zen 2 3800x cpu in a couple of years but nonetheless I also seem to have a feeling that with an i7 type this game would have had no problems at all.

Does this confirm with other observations?










Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’

Comments

  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users
    Worst part is... can't even find a solid 60 fps for scrolling on the main campaign map. I thought i had found the 'perfect' settings for the benchmark only to arrive in a very bad world when continuing the campaign. It is just as if the demands from the game regarding graphics and such are not properly relayed to the hardware in question

    I did found settings where at least the scrolling appears fluid…. I guess when i have moved ( to my new house ) i will use both my old xeon x5650 with a 1060 3 gb 18 gb's of ddr3 and this r5 2600 baby with 32 gb's of ddr 4 ram and a 2060S if things won't improve on the experience side of life








    Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
    Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
    Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users
    edited September 8
    Last addition.

    This must the only game in my library where i can set all graphics settings manual on low and still find myself below 60 FPS on the world map.... What a joke

    (edit: a little lie Ofcourse but still, it really almost aint no exaggeration )





    Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
    Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
    Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,338Registered Users
    This isn't even marginally surprising to me.

    ToB is ****, engine wise, for a modern game. It's the last 32 bit engine release, two years after they switched to 64 bit for Warhammer, which is probably related to it only recognizes 3GB of ram.

    Beyond the dated memory limitations, it lacks substantial optimization in threading. It is almost, if not entirely, the same basic graphical engine used for Attila, this was a cheap and easy job with lots of reused assets, odds are not favorable that they did a large scale engine rework like they would for a main game. Attila, as well, was not a full price game, coming out at $45 to Rome II's $60 release price. That pricing is more of a stand alone expansion than the next full TW game.

    You're basically playing a Rome II game, there's probably not much optimization between them. The ultra unit size is going to cripple performance in large battles, and it's generally inefficient design lends itself poorly to the relatively weak single thread capabilities of the r5 2600.

    I don't expect the game will get great performance on a 3800X either though. Three Kingdoms probably would, there is a substantial amount of optimization work in that game, even over Warhammer, which runs far better than ToB can.

    The best you can probably manage, even with an i9 9900K and a substantial overclock, is a benchmark score that dips into the high 50's. A double stacks battle is going to crater that down to the 20's just fine. :)
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users
    psychoak said:

    This isn't even marginally surprising to me.

    ToB is ****, engine wise, for a modern game. It's the last 32 bit engine release, two years after they switched to 64 bit for Warhammer, which is probably related to it only recognizes 3GB of ram.

    Beyond the dated memory limitations, it lacks substantial optimization in threading. It is almost, if not entirely, the same basic graphical engine used for Attila, this was a cheap and easy job with lots of reused assets, odds are not favorable that they did a large scale engine rework like they would for a main game. Attila, as well, was not a full price game, coming out at $45 to Rome II's $60 release price. That pricing is more of a stand alone expansion than the next full TW game.

    You're basically playing a Rome II game, there's probably not much optimization between them. The ultra unit size is going to cripple performance in large battles, and it's generally inefficient design lends itself poorly to the relatively weak single thread capabilities of the r5 2600.

    I don't expect the game will get great performance on a 3800X either though. Three Kingdoms probably would, there is a substantial amount of optimization work in that game, even over Warhammer, which runs far better than ToB can.

    The best you can probably manage, even with an i9 9900K and a substantial overclock, is a benchmark score that dips into the high 50's. A double stacks battle is going to crater that down to the 20's just fine. :)

    LOL

    I envy your apparent good mood :)

    There would be so much shame if i released such an product onto the market. There is nothing wrong with Rome II but if you present it like its 2009 or something. Now i finally understand all of the bad reactions when people talk about Thrones….. i bet ya if they did it right complaints would have been far less.

    Older hardware does seem to be more suited to play this game then anything else..

    I'll leave it at that ;)





    Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
    Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
    Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users
    You know what the worst part is btw....

    Three Kingdoms!

    If you see how optimized that game runs compared to Thrones, Thrones is really a disgrace. Like the unwanted duckling or the player that no-one wants in his team.
    If i want to play Three Kingdoms cheap i just turn off anti aliasing. CPU and GPU work both in such a way that most of the time temperatures won't even hit the 50's celcius. If i want to go all out i will add TAA for example and it still runs admirably on 120W powerdraw.
    Thrones doesn't even seem to grasp the concept of hardware and availability. It just goes
    EYYYYY … you snothmouth… I want here ten trees you draw .. yes yes ?!
    Where in Three Kingdoms every scroll action is smoothed out just as a gracefull dancer would come to a halt Thrones just burps and says "What do you want ****? WANA PIECE OF ME … OYYYYYY "







    Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
    Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
    Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,338Registered Users
    Now just imagine if it was a fully threaded Vulkan or DX12 engine, and ran like a dream with twice the unit limit in battle. :)
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users
    psychoak said:

    Now just imagine if it was a fully threaded Vulkan or DX12 engine, and ran like a dream with twice the unit limit in battle. :)

    80 vs 80 :# :# :blush:
    Or unit sizes ranging up to 500 individual soldiers O.O

    Well all jokes aside, that would be something!
    Three Kingdoms is in that aspect already becoming pretty cpu intensive. For my r5 2600 that is. 50% load during battle scenes where a lot is going on. Already figured that a watercooler for the cpu will be paramount if this trend is continuing.





    Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
    Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
    Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’
  • LestaTLestaT Senior Member Posts: 3,280Registered Users
    I got 60fps on High preset for the game.

    Ryzen 5 2600 & RX 580.



    ToB is the upgraded code of Attila though.
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Posts: 590Registered Users
    60++ FPS on overall high settings 1920*1080 resolution 60mhz (no antialising) on i7 4790k and 16gb ram, samsung ssd and 1060 6GB nvidia gtx.

    The truth is that for the foreseeable future games still use between 2 and 4 CPU cores in total.
    Games like TWW2 even have flaws where they supposedly only use ONE core to calculate AI turns (which is big reason why it takes so long even on an ssd).

    AMD tends to go for "many mediocre cores" while intel tends to go for "few strong cores" - or at least that was the concept, not sure is it the same today.
    And games really love having a few really strong CPU cores so for games intel tends to have an advantage.

    I suggest you check out what Frames per second are modern/latest CPUs getting in games like TWW2 or other modern titles before you buy a new CPU (and gpu).

    But i would honestly say that a modern intel i5 is minimum for modern total war titles and also probably at least 4GB modern GPU (if not even 6GB) is also a must have.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users
    LestaT said:

    I got 60fps on High preset for the game.

    Ryzen 5 2600 & RX 580.



    ToB is the upgraded code of Attila though.

    Oke well thank you for your feedback ….. I probably had be better of with coupling the RX 5700 with the ryzen 5 2600 instead of the 2060 super. Most b grade companies seem to work better with standard settings then wild try out machines with mix and match setups





    Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
    Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
    Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 241Registered Users

    60++ FPS on overall high settings 1920*1080 resolution 60mhz (no antialising) on i7 4790k and 16gb ram, samsung ssd and 1060 6GB nvidia gtx.

    The truth is that for the foreseeable future games still use between 2 and 4 CPU cores in total.
    Games like TWW2 even have flaws where they supposedly only use ONE core to calculate AI turns (which is big reason why it takes so long even on an ssd).

    AMD tends to go for "many mediocre cores" while intel tends to go for "few strong cores" - or at least that was the concept, not sure is it the same today.
    And games really love having a few really strong CPU cores so for games intel tends to have an advantage.

    I suggest you check out what Frames per second are modern/latest CPUs getting in games like TWW2 or other modern titles before you buy a new CPU (and gpu).

    But i would honestly say that a modern intel i5 is minimum for modern total war titles and also probably at least 4GB modern GPU (if not even 6GB) is also a must have.

    Oke yea … CA wise .. i belief the most modern games take advantage of max 8 cores. I'm not sure where CA stands. I do belief that Intel is their more favored partner.

    The cpu upgrade i'm foreseeing has more to do with triple A titles such as bioware productions then what CA offers. and really my cpu, the 2600 handles Warhammer II and three kingdoms quite well. Anthem runs at 50% load as do the nfsu games but most games such as the other 4x titles i love to do hang around 20 to 30% usage. If i'm buying another ryzen cpu it would be because of the higher clockspeeds but with intel's new teaser release i might even ponder to return to intel land with their 10 serie cpu's…. another 5 to 600 euro's end next year as a xmas present for myself ( I9 equilavent ) would do me more good then moving forward with a ryzen 5





    Male Parta Male Dilabuntur – ‘What has been wrongly gained is wrongly lost.’
    Fiat Lux – ‘Let there be light.’
    Alea Jacta Est – ‘The die is cast.’
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