Lizardmen Quality of Life

Nielspeterdejong

I have been playing the expansion non-stop, and I think it’s a gem! That said, there are some parts that have felt a bit lackluster for the Lizardmen in terms of campaign (Nakai) and Multi Player. I wanted to post these here and propose some suggestions on how to fix that:

Nakai. Nakai’s campaign is boring, has an income problem, and your vassal keeps getting attacked.

Suggestion: Make it so that whenever your vassal is defending or under siege, that you may aid them in battle, regardless of location. Let his vassal give you much more income, give him military access from the start with other Lizardmen factions, and make it so that your allies can’t attack your vassal. Lorewise Nakai was infamous for arriving out of nowhere as a mystical being.

Additional suggestion: Give him a mission at the start of the game in Mortal Empires to move to a location in Albion; After which a dilemma will occur that will transport him to 4 locations next to other races.

Racial army effect. The Lizardmen don’t have anything that sets them apart, aside from a lot of rampage mechanics and a situational ability that negates that.

Suggestion: Make it so that the Cold Blooded ability also grants the target a bonus to their Melee Defense and Missile Resistance. Maybe make them unbreakable instead of the leadership boon.

Multiplayer. The Lizardmen in multiplayer have a big roster, but many units are underwhelming and lack a specific role. In mid-tier player matches they are struggling right now.

Suggestion: Give some boons to their new Dread and underwhelming/expensive units:
-Dread Saurian: Make it so that you can only pick 1 Dread Saurian per army, while in exchange giving them more Missile Resistance and making them more cost effective
-Razordon herd: Increase their cost to 850, and give them the same range as Salamanders and a bonus vs infantry.
-Terradons: Give the Fireleech Bola’s a bonus vs infantry, and the regular ones a bonus vs large, on their missile attacks.
-Bastiladon (all): give them more missile resistance, to help against all the new AP missile attacks.
-Bastiladon (Arc of Sotek): Lower their cost, or let their ability deal more damage, or give them a damaging aura.
-Bastiladon (Solar Engine): Make their ranged attack an AP missile attack. Right now it feels very anti-climactic.
-Stegadon (bow): Give her a bonus vs large on her ranged attack.
-Ripperdactyl: Give them the Terror trait.
-Ancient Salamander: Give her her old range back.
-Feral Cold Ones: Increase their number of models (and hp).

StarGazer#4874

I am enjoying the new unit/building chains, especially the fact that the skink chain has again been reduced to 3 tiers and how Star Chambers are now tier 3 and provide a bunch of benefits.

Does anyone know if Nakai respawns once his faction has been wiped out? He seems to start ME in a very vulnerable position.

angry_rat_lover#9467

I think they should give some missile resistance to the dread saurian, it just.... dies too fast to everything that shoots it

StarGazer#4874

angry_rat_lover said:

I think they should give some missile resistance to the dread saurian, it just.... dies too fast to everything that shoots it

You would think all its enchanted/blessed adornments would provide some sort of protection. It could get some scary buffs on the tabletop.

Nielspeterdejong

Star Weaver said:

angry_rat_lover said:

I think they should give some missile resistance to the dread saurian, it just.... dies too fast to everything that shoots it

You would think all its enchanted/blessed adornments would provide some sort of protection. It could get some scary buffs on the tabletop.

In the Tabletop the Dread Saurian has a trait called "Glyphs of Hunger" that allow him to replenish health whenever he is in combat.

Uagrim#4644

For nakai, they should allow him to get military access with the other lizardmen.

1010

Nielspeterdejong said:

I have been playing the expansion non-stop, and I think it’s a gem! That said, there are some parts that have felt a bit lackluster for the Lizardmen in terms of campaign (Nakai) and Multi Player. I wanted to post these here and propose some suggestions on how to fix that:

Nakai. Nakai’s campaign is boring, has an income problem, and your vassal keeps getting attacked.

Suggestion: Make it so that whenever your vassal is defending or under siege, that you may aid them in battle, regardless of location. Let his vassal give you much more income, and make it so that your allies can’t attack your vassal. Lorewise Nakai was infamous for arriving out of nowhere as a mystical being.

Additional suggestion: Give him a mission at the start of the game in Mortal Empires to move to a location in Albion; After which a dilemma will occur that will transport him to 4 locations next to other races.

Racial army effect. The Lizardmen don’t have anything that sets them apart, aside from a lot of rampage mechanics and a situational ability that negates that.

Suggestion: Make it so that the Cold Blooded ability also grants the target a bonus to their Melee Defense and Missile Resistance. Maybe make them unbreakable instead of the leadership boon.

Multiplayer. The Lizardmen in multiplayer have a big roster, but many units are underwhelming and lack a specific role. In mid-tier player matches they are struggling right now.

Suggestion: Give some boons to their new Dread and underwhelming/expensive units:
-Dread Saurian: Make it so that you can only pick 1 Dread Saurian per army, while in exchange giving them more Missile Resistance and making them more cost effective
-Razordon herd: Increase their cost to 850, and give them the same range as Salamanders and a bonus vs infantry.
-Terradons: Give the Fireleech Bola’s a bonus vs infantry, and the regular ones a bonus vs large, on their missile attacks.
-Bastiladon (all): give them more missile resistance, to help against all the new AP missile attacks.
-Bastiladon (Arc of Sotek): Lower their cost, or let their ability deal more damage, or give them a damaging aura.
-Bastiladon (Solar Engine): Make their ranged attack an AP missile attack. Right now it feels very anti-climactic.
-Stegadon (bow): Give her a bonus vs large on her ranged attack.
-Ripperdactyl: Give them the Terror trait.
-Ancient Salamander: Give her her old range back.
-Feral Cold Ones: Increase their number of models (and hp).

+ 1

#184229

Give razordon and salamanders their correct roles

Razordon High AP Anti-Large

Salamanders Med AP Anti-Infantry

Lord_Distamorfin#1941

Nielspeterdejong said:

I have been playing the expansion non-stop, and I think it’s a gem! That said, there are some parts that have felt a bit lackluster for the Lizardmen in terms of campaign (Nakai) and Multi Player. I wanted to post these here and propose some suggestions on how to fix that:

Nakai. Nakai’s campaign is boring, has an income problem, and your vassal keeps getting attacked.

Suggestion: Make it so that whenever your vassal is defending or under siege, that you may aid them in battle, regardless of location. Let his vassal give you much more income, and make it so that your allies can’t attack your vassal. Lorewise Nakai was infamous for arriving out of nowhere as a mystical being.

Additional suggestion: Give him a mission at the start of the game in Mortal Empires to move to a location in Albion; After which a dilemma will occur that will transport him to 4 locations next to other races.

Racial army effect. The Lizardmen don’t have anything that sets them apart, aside from a lot of rampage mechanics and a situational ability that negates that.

Suggestion: Make it so that the Cold Blooded ability also grants the target a bonus to their Melee Defense and Missile Resistance. Maybe make them unbreakable instead of the leadership boon.

Multiplayer. The Lizardmen in multiplayer have a big roster, but many units are underwhelming and lack a specific role. In mid-tier player matches they are struggling right now.

Suggestion: Give some boons to their new Dread and underwhelming/expensive units:
-Dread Saurian: Make it so that you can only pick 1 Dread Saurian per army, while in exchange giving them more Missile Resistance and making them more cost effective
-Razordon herd: Increase their cost to 850, and give them the same range as Salamanders and a bonus vs infantry.
-Terradons: Give the Fireleech Bola’s a bonus vs infantry, and the regular ones a bonus vs large, on their missile attacks.
-Bastiladon (all): give them more missile resistance, to help against all the new AP missile attacks.
-Bastiladon (Arc of Sotek): Lower their cost, or let their ability deal more damage, or give them a damaging aura.
-Bastiladon (Solar Engine): Make their ranged attack an AP missile attack. Right now it feels very anti-climactic.
-Stegadon (bow): Give her a bonus vs large on her ranged attack.
-Ripperdactyl: Give them the Terror trait.
-Ancient Salamander: Give her her old range back.
-Feral Cold Ones: Increase their number of models (and hp).

Racial Army Effect
There's already a solution to the Rampage mechanic Lizardmen are saddled with: Predatory Fighter

In 8th edition, several units (Saurus, Kroxigors, etc.) had a rule called Predatory Fighter
Instead of getting a buff and losing control when they lose a certain amount of health, Saurus and other Predatory Fighter units are supposed to (a) fight better when they are winning, and (b) pursue their routing opponent unless a skink character is nearby. This can be implemented by making Predatory Fighter units (Saurus and Kroxigors) get a bonus to melee attack when they are winning their current fight (similar to the Nasty Skulkers' "Opportunist Murderer") and forcibly pursuing their prey when their opponent routs. The downside (chasing the routing enemy) is negated by giving all skink characters an aoe passive which prevents units from chasing the enemy down. This change is loreful, follows the spirit and rules of the tabletop, and keeps the player in control of his units (instead of leaving it up to the opponent to decide when to force a rampage). A change from Primal Instincts would also coincide very well with the potential future introduction of the much-anticipated Troglodon.

TheShiroOfDalton

God no! None of that nonsense please! If you like god-moding Lizardmen just mod their stats into that, but spare the rest of the players this utter travesty!

Nielspeterdejong

Ephraim_Dalton said:

God no! None of that nonsense please! If you like god-moding Lizardmen just mod their stats into that, but spare the rest of the players this utter travesty!

SILENCE! Slave of the great enemy!

TheShiroOfDalton

Nielspeterdejong said:

Ephraim_Dalton said:

God no! None of that nonsense please! If you like god-moding Lizardmen just mod their stats into that, but spare the rest of the players this utter travesty!

SILENCE! Slave of the great enemy!

If you don't want people not agreeing with your ideas, don't post them in a public space.

All of your ideas are completely imbalanced net buffs to already strong units, you are basically aiming at removing whatever downside they might have right now.

If you want them like that, mod them, do not try and inflict them on the entire playerbase.

Nielspeterdejong

Ephraim_Dalton said:

Nielspeterdejong said:

Ephraim_Dalton said:

God no! None of that nonsense please! If you like god-moding Lizardmen just mod their stats into that, but spare the rest of the players this utter travesty!

SILENCE! Slave of the great enemy!

If you don't want people not agreeing with your ideas, don't post them in a public space.

All of your ideas are completely imbalanced net buffs to already strong units, you are basically aiming at removing whatever downside they might have right now.

If you want them like that, mod them, do not try and inflict them on the entire playerbase.

I"m just joking

You are free to have a different opinion. The changes I suggested were for those units of the Lizardmen which have been a bit forgotten. Which will hopefully make MP with them more rewarding and interesting, without overdoing their strengths.

TWforumUN1989

-

Draxynnic#3149

One possible approach for a Lizardmen mechanic is to look at how the Cold-Blooded mechanic operated numerically on the tabletop:

Namely, it was a mechanic that was generally the equivalent of having a Leadership value a point or so higher, but it was more sensitive to negative modifiers, especially with the Skinks: each modifier made them more likely to break, comparatively speaking, then the same modifier applied to a unit with a higher Leadership. The result was that Lizardmen units tended to rally quickly once they were no longer subject to the penalties that caused them to break in the first place. This tendency was even reflected in the fluff - Skinks were described a few times as being easy to panic, but quick to regain their composure and get back into the fight, and the Lizardmen in general were stoic in the face of losses.

So what could possibly reflect this is giving the Lizardmen a faster rate at which they regain Leadership once they're no longer subject to conditions that cause them to lose it. This would allow Lizardmen units to rally faster, and units which are rotated out of stressful situations without breaking get back to full Leadership faster.

Nielspeterdejong

I think that is a very nice idea! Though wouldn't that be hard to implement in the current game?

Neodeinos#5871

Ephraim_Dalton said:

Nielspeterdejong said:

Ephraim_Dalton said:

God no! None of that nonsense please! If you like god-moding Lizardmen just mod their stats into that, but spare the rest of the players this utter travesty!

SILENCE! Slave of the great enemy!

If you want them like that, mod them, do not try and inflict them on the entire playerbase.

It's funny to read that from someone who is refusing to use mods for caps and then complain that there are no caps all the time in the forums.