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Please remove lord Kroak from the start for Itza.

Deep_echo_soundDeep_echo_sound Registered Users Posts: 472
Strong units are fun.
But campaign need a sense of progression.
C.A., please, consider removing lord Kroak from the Itza at the start of campaign.

And add unit of horned ones for the starting army instead.
This will be both unique, as all other lizardmen lords start with kroxigors, feral stegadons and bastiladons with solar engine, and reasonably strong. But, not overpowered like lord Kroak is.
Some early challenge and progression is very appreciated. Please.
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Comments

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 22,894
    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • Skarsnik_De_EmperorSkarsnik_De_Emperor Registered Users Posts: 1,751
    Every free lord is the easiest. Free lord for Dwarfs, Greenskins, Vampires, High Elves, Dark Elves, Skavens all the same.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,342
    For what?
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • DarkLordDDarkLordD Registered Users Posts: 2,522

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    He does indeed!
    Dark Lord D the Fearsome (I) ~~~ First Dark Lord of the Old World.

    --~~ let them hate me as long as they fear me ------------------------- Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, Roman Emperor
  • Blackstar1Blackstar1 Registered Users Posts: 102
    If you want more of a challenge then there are 5 other factions to play, Gor-Rok's campaign is fun.
  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,742
    edited September 2019
  • Cortes31Cortes31 Registered Users Posts: 1,400
    Korak needs to stay!
    "In brightest day, in blackest night,
    No faction shall escape my sight.
    Let those who think deniers are right
    Beware my power--Faction Lantern's light!"

    Everythime a faction/race is excluded from the trilogy, these games become smaller. RIP Araby and others.
  • KelefaneKelefane Registered Users Posts: 2,699
    Speak for yourself. I rather like that Kroak starts with Gor-Rok.

  • AxiosXiphosAxiosXiphos Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,143

    Every free lord is the easiest. Free lord for Dwarfs, Greenskins, Vampires, High Elves, Dark Elves, Skavens all the same.

    Have you tried a legendary Lokir campaign? Trust me that is not easier then the other 3
  • BronzebeardBronzebeard Registered Users Posts: 368

    Every free lord is the easiest. Free lord for Dwarfs, Greenskins, Vampires, High Elves, Dark Elves, Skavens all the same.

    Have you tried a legendary Lokir campaign? Trust me that is not easier then the other 3
    Same for Alith Anar compared to Tyrion, although his mechanics are VERY nice!
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 3,933
    edited September 2019

    Every free lord is the easiest. Free lord for Dwarfs, Greenskins, Vampires, High Elves, Dark Elves, Skavens all the same.

    Tretch is easy? Since when? That guy's starting position is so tough that even LegendofTotalWar calls it very hard...
  • BugmansxxxBugmansxxx Registered Users Posts: 297

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Not every start need to be easy either.

    Thing is that LM only have one a bit harder start with Tik tok in ME. Every other LM start is very easy.

    Maybe CA intentionally made LM in to easy mode or maybe its just that they get good economy and most LLs get big discounts to units and their units are strong so you can pack a lot of punch in to a 20 unit stack.

    Still it would be fun to spread out the challenge a bit.

    Currently it´s only some old world factions that can offer more difficulty and thats kind of skewed when there are 22? LLs in TWWH 2 vortex campaining.
  • FraxinusFraxinus Registered Users Posts: 443

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Not every start need to be easy either.

    Thing is that LM only have one a bit harder start with Tik tok in ME. Every other LM start is very easy.

    Maybe CA intentionally made LM in to easy mode or maybe its just that they get good economy and most LLs get big discounts to units and their units are strong so you can pack a lot of punch in to a 20 unit stack.

    Still it would be fun to spread out the challenge a bit.

    Currently it´s only some old world factions that can offer more difficulty and thats kind of skewed when there are 22? LLs in TWWH 2 vortex campaining.
    Mazdamundi is easy? When you have to deal with Skeggi spamming Marauder Champions thanks to their landmark, Cylostra faffing about, the dark elves just across your northern border? And then just to your south the hilarious death machine that the Blue Vipers have become?

    Kroq-Gar isn't exactly easy either. Your home base is pretty safe but you also have to push through a natural bottleneck occupied by tomb kings, vampire counts, skaven, greenskins, and occasionally dwarfs. And then more tomb kings after that.

    TEHENHAUIN is easy? It's basically WWI but skinks vs. skaven. Unending skaven stacks and you have no Saurus to defend yourself with in the early-game. It's a general consensus that Tehenhauin has one of the hardest starts in the game.

    Sure, having access to Saurus makes most Lizardmen early-games easier than they would be otherwise. But most of them have challenges to make up for it. Even Gor-Rok's campaign isn't quite as easy as people make it out to be. Sure, the battles with Gor-Rok and Kroak are a cakewalk, but you're surrounded by enemies and the two big boys can't be everywhere at once.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 4,220
    Agreed Lord Kroak from the get go equals a guaranteed win......It´s simply too much power that early on.

  • Wargol5Wargol5 Registered Users Posts: 1,323

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    The game doesn't need a "learner faction". There is already easy mode for beginners.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,662

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Pffffffffft.

    Starter faction is Dwarfs.

    Speaking of Dwarfs... am I tripping or is the quality of texture in the porthole window for characters ABYSMAL for Dwarfs? I swear it looks like molten plastic for whatever reason.
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Registered Users Posts: 1,005
    @Bugmansxxx lol Tehenhauin is nowhere near easy.
    Also free lords aren't always the easiest ones. I've not tried Alith Anar, but Lokhir's start was definitely on the hard side.

    I think it's ok to have some super easy lords and some super hard ones for every race.

    That said, I'm a big fan of the horned ones, so I would really like a lizardmen lord that starts with them. Maybe they could swap Kroq-gar's cold one spear riders with q unit of horned ones.
  • warhammerwarlordwarhammerwarlord Registered Users Posts: 170
    If something - Lizards need some buffs since they are being picked off by all the other AI races in campaign :D
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 22,894

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Not every start need to be easy either.

    Thing is that LM only have one a bit harder start with Tik tok in ME. Every other LM start is very easy.

    Maybe CA intentionally made LM in to easy mode or maybe its just that they get good economy and most LLs get big discounts to units and their units are strong so you can pack a lot of punch in to a 20 unit stack.

    Still it would be fun to spread out the challenge a bit.

    Currently it´s only some old world factions that can offer more difficulty and thats kind of skewed when there are 22? LLs in TWWH 2 vortex campaining.
    You have a point. Tehen was hugely hard before Gor-Rok. Took me a lot of save scumming to do that one. Now I imagine it's significantly easier though.

    LM have had a real topsy turvy ride. From being lumped with 2 LL's for ages to getting whatever they have now (7 - Kroak counts) and in a fairly tight area. They've also got some really good infantry and the best doomstacks of all races now.

    I'd also argue a lot of TWW2 lords are really quite hard. Lokhir, Teclis, Hellebron is hard depending how well one deals with pressure, Tretch. I can't say with accuracy as I haven't played them all and it changes a lot (Tehen going from Hard to medium? this patch).
    Thanks CA for working with Epic Games to give us Troy for free!
  • SubjectEighteenSubjectEighteen Registered Users Posts: 548

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Not every start need to be easy either.

    Thing is that LM only have one a bit harder start with Tik tok in ME. Every other LM start is very easy.

    Maybe CA intentionally made LM in to easy mode or maybe its just that they get good economy and most LLs get big discounts to units and their units are strong so you can pack a lot of punch in to a 20 unit stack.

    Still it would be fun to spread out the challenge a bit.

    Currently it´s only some old world factions that can offer more difficulty and thats kind of skewed when there are 22? LLs in TWWH 2 vortex campaining.
    You have a point. Tehen was hugely hard before Gor-Rok. Took me a lot of save scumming to do that one. Now I imagine it's significantly easier though.

    LM have had a real topsy turvy ride. From being lumped with 2 LL's for ages to getting whatever they have now (7 - Kroak counts) and in a fairly tight area. They've also got some really good infantry and the best doomstacks of all races now.

    I'd also argue a lot of TWW2 lords are really quite hard. Lokhir, Teclis, Hellebron is hard depending how well one deals with pressure, Tretch. I can't say with accuracy as I haven't played them all and it changes a lot (Tehen going from Hard to medium? this patch).
    I'm running a Tehenhauin campaign right now. Nothing that I can tell has changed. His start is still extremely rough, fighting that damned war of attrition against Clan Fester. I haven't got past the first 25 turns though so I cant say for sure how much Gor-Rok changes things in the mid game.
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 3,933
    Itharus said:

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Pffffffffft.

    Starter faction is Dwarfs.

    Speaking of Dwarfs... am I tripping or is the quality of texture in the porthole window for characters ABYSMAL for Dwarfs? I swear it looks like molten plastic for whatever reason.
    Gotta disagree here. Dwarfs are easy to use, true, but they are way harder now than it used to be, just because the Greenskin AI is on overdrive for a while now. Quite overwhelming for a new player. It would probably get better once the GS gets their own update.

    And no one said there should be only one learner faction. If anything, the other LM factions can be quite challenging to play. It's nice to have at least one relaxed starting position.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Karaz-a-KarakRegistered Users Posts: 3,624

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    I thought that was the purpose of easy difficulty.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,079
    Tehenhuain has a tough as hell start, one of the most fun I’ve played so far. One mistake and your pretty much toast.

    Unfortunately once you catch your breath and get access to some better units it’s nearly time for the race war mechanic to kick in, and the campaign shifts to super easy mode as all the lizardmen factions (and usually Teclis) wipe the Skaven off the map.

    Maybe Skaven need a campaign buff?
  • BugmansxxxBugmansxxx Registered Users Posts: 297
    Fraxinus said:

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Not every start need to be easy either.

    Thing is that LM only have one a bit harder start with Tik tok in ME. Every other LM start is very easy.

    Maybe CA intentionally made LM in to easy mode or maybe its just that they get good economy and most LLs get big discounts to units and their units are strong so you can pack a lot of punch in to a 20 unit stack.

    Still it would be fun to spread out the challenge a bit.

    Currently it´s only some old world factions that can offer more difficulty and thats kind of skewed when there are 22? LLs in TWWH 2 vortex campaining.
    Mazdamundi is easy? When you have to deal with Skeggi spamming Marauder Champions thanks to their landmark, Cylostra faffing about, the dark elves just across your northern border? And then just to your south the hilarious death machine that the Blue Vipers have become?

    Kroq-Gar isn't exactly easy either. Your home base is pretty safe but you also have to push through a natural bottleneck occupied by tomb kings, vampire counts, skaven, greenskins, and occasionally dwarfs. And then more tomb kings after that.

    TEHENHAUIN is easy? It's basically WWI but skinks vs. skaven. Unending skaven stacks and you have no Saurus to defend yourself with in the early-game. It's a general consensus that Tehenhauin has one of the hardest starts in the game.

    Sure, having access to Saurus makes most Lizardmen early-games easier than they would be otherwise. But most of them have challenges to make up for it. Even Gor-Rok's campaign isn't quite as easy as people make it out to be. Sure, the battles with Gor-Rok and Kroak are a cakewalk, but you're surrounded by enemies and the two big boys can't be everywhere at once.
    Mazdamundi gets a gold mine and a super strong garrison at start. It is very easy to build on that.

    Krog Gar gets a corner position so he only really has to fight in on direction and paractically free sauruses. It´s easy.

    Tenhauin gets good army buffs and access to RoR from sacrifices and he gets good cheap armies with skink buffs from skills and rituals. it´s easy.

    Nakai is just ridicilously easy.

    And now Gor Rok is very strong in his own right and he gets a mobile artillery in Kroak. I doubt i´ll ever even bother trying him out.

    Even Tik Tok in vortex has it pretty easy with kind of weak neighbours.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,743
    If they removed him, then what? He would just be a Krok Gar clone.
  • RazmirthRazmirth Registered Users Posts: 2,238
    edited September 2019
    While I feel kroak is fine where he’s at....


    why have several people felt the need to flag The OPs post? Because they don’t agree with it? All the guy is asking for is a bit more of a normal campaign experience instead of easy mode. Don’t think that’s any reason to flag his post. Unless I’m missing something, and he’s created several other posts saying the same thing?
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428

    Strong units are fun.
    But campaign need a sense of progression.
    C.A., please, consider removing lord Kroak from the Itza at the start of campaign.

    And add unit of horned ones for the starting army instead.
    This will be both unique, as all other lizardmen lords start with kroxigors, feral stegadons and bastiladons with solar engine, and reasonably strong. But, not overpowered like lord Kroak is.
    Some early challenge and progression is very appreciated. Please.

    You probably wouldn’t enjoy playing ikit claw then

  • PatriksevePatrikseve Member Registered Users Posts: 1,898
    Maybe mods can help you here? I think lots of people like the starting position and its units, I do understand the challenge question but yea mods could be your saviour to tune his start. :)

  • decourcy2decourcy2 Registered Users Posts: 196
    I have tried Itza twice and lost twice so i am unsure what people are talking about. Kroak helps but he can't win 3 battles a turn for you.
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Registered Users Posts: 1,005

    Fraxinus said:

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    Not every start need to be easy either.

    Thing is that LM only have one a bit harder start with Tik tok in ME. Every other LM start is very easy.

    Maybe CA intentionally made LM in to easy mode or maybe its just that they get good economy and most LLs get big discounts to units and their units are strong so you can pack a lot of punch in to a 20 unit stack.

    Still it would be fun to spread out the challenge a bit.

    Currently it´s only some old world factions that can offer more difficulty and thats kind of skewed when there are 22? LLs in TWWH 2 vortex campaining.
    Mazdamundi is easy? When you have to deal with Skeggi spamming Marauder Champions thanks to their landmark, Cylostra faffing about, the dark elves just across your northern border? And then just to your south the hilarious death machine that the Blue Vipers have become?

    Kroq-Gar isn't exactly easy either. Your home base is pretty safe but you also have to push through a natural bottleneck occupied by tomb kings, vampire counts, skaven, greenskins, and occasionally dwarfs. And then more tomb kings after that.

    TEHENHAUIN is easy? It's basically WWI but skinks vs. skaven. Unending skaven stacks and you have no Saurus to defend yourself with in the early-game. It's a general consensus that Tehenhauin has one of the hardest starts in the game.

    Sure, having access to Saurus makes most Lizardmen early-games easier than they would be otherwise. But most of them have challenges to make up for it. Even Gor-Rok's campaign isn't quite as easy as people make it out to be. Sure, the battles with Gor-Rok and Kroak are a cakewalk, but you're surrounded by enemies and the two big boys can't be everywhere at once.
    Mazdamundi gets a gold mine and a super strong garrison at start. It is very easy to build on that.

    Krog Gar gets a corner position so he only really has to fight in on direction and paractically free sauruses. It´s easy.

    Tenhauin gets good army buffs and access to RoR from sacrifices and he gets good cheap armies with skink buffs from skills and rituals. it´s easy.

    Nakai is just ridicilously easy.

    And now Gor Rok is very strong in his own right and he gets a mobile artillery in Kroak. I doubt i´ll ever even bother trying him out.

    Even Tik Tok in vortex has it pretty easy with kind of weak neighbours.
    Did you actually play Tehenhauin? Because getting RoRs via sacrifices is actually a penalty considering the sacrifice earning rate. Skinks are pure trash no matter how much he buffs them.
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