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Please remove lord Kroak from the start for Itza.

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Comments

  • dreagondreagon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,191
    You can always not use him if it bothers you so much. A sense of progression doesn't come from just one character. There was plenty of it before you got to play Kroak.
    "The dog is a peasant and the cat is a gentleman." H.P. Lovecraft
  • BugmansxxxBugmansxxx Registered Users Posts: 297
    edited September 2019



    Did you actually play Tehenhauin? Because getting RoRs via sacrifices is actually a penalty considering the sacrifice earning rate. Skinks are pure trash no matter how much he buffs them.

    I played Tehenhauin with vermintide and greentide mods on and it really is not that hard.

    Skinks are great with the his buffs. They are fast so you get to pick your fights. You can use skirmishers to draw enemies on a chase and then you kill them in little parts.

    Skirmishers are the key to skinks just use a lot of them. Draw enemies out and then split up and alwyas shoot them in the back. It works for Mazdamundi too if you want to kill skeggi early Tehenauins buffs just make it easier.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,993
    It's nice if you want to try Kroak without going through the quest. I see no reason whatsoever to remove it, the game has a gazillion factions if you want a harder start.
  • MythicsfulMythicsful Registered Users Posts: 32
    Guys OP says LM are easy. Because he's the best TW player in human history, let's all cater to his requests only. Your opinions do not matter; OP is the best, and therefore the only correct person ever. CA themselves are incorrect when debating OP's grand and immutable opinion. We must all bow down for this post even existing.
  • misterZmisterZ Registered Users Posts: 354
    Just don't use him?
    Send him to north pole or something
  • ASyrianASyrian Registered Users Posts: 284
    Kriak rightfully belongs to Itza.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 9,438
    edited September 2019
    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.

  • aimanoaimano Registered Users Posts: 1

    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.
    Kroak doesn't need to be removed ffs. Gor-Rok's start position is classified as EASY for a reason. Stop trying to ruin other people's fun because you're so 'good'.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    aimano said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.
    Kroak doesn't need to be removed ffs. Gor-Rok's start position is classified as EASY for a reason. Stop trying to ruin other people's fun because you're so 'good'.
    Yes, he needs to be removed. There are already too many joke campaigns in the game that are a snoozefest by turn one. CA needs to reduced their number not pile even more on top.

  • SubjectEighteenSubjectEighteen Registered Users Posts: 548
    @aimano Just let him go. He always complains about the difficulty of the game, or the lack thereof.

    The game is as challenging as you make it. I'll admit that the ai has never been great, but man this game is fun. Purposefully overreach, only recruit thematic armies. Don't walk around with a full stack of Saurus from the word go. Roleplay a little. Or God forbid @Ephraim_Dalton, maybe play something else for a while if you aren't happy with the game.
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Registered Users Posts: 1,035

    aimano said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.
    Kroak doesn't need to be removed ffs. Gor-Rok's start position is classified as EASY for a reason. Stop trying to ruin other people's fun because you're so 'good'.
    Yes, he needs to be removed. There are already too many joke campaigns in the game that are a snoozefest by turn one. CA needs to reduced their number not pile even more on top.
    Nakai can be a bit soul-crushing, Markus can be rather butt-clenching to say the least, T1 might lead to some gnashing of teeth due to the amount of skinks involved, and T3 isn't exactly easy mode. And then there's old faithfuls like Skarsnik and Angrund, and frankly we could put Khatip and Morghur on the list also. Skrolk and Tretch used to be a pain also. None of these campaigns are freakishly hard on normal, but they start pulling teeth on legendary with VH battles.


    As for Gor-Rok, he's a rather unspectacular nobody. Thinking of it as a Gor-Rok campaign is arguably somewhat misleading, because it really isn't. It's a Kroak-campaign, with Gor-Rok being the grunt who does the paper shuffling and handles the day to day trivia so Kroak is free to do what Kroak does, which is blow things up. And really, what would a Kroak-campaign be without Kroak?
  • CrosswireCrosswire Registered Users Posts: 27
    Wargol5 said:

    Not every start needs to be hard. I'm content with the Vanilla Lizard getting a Vanilla easy start.

    He makes an excellent learner faction.

    The game doesn't need a "learner faction". There is already easy mode for beginners.
    Tyrion is pretty much learner faction.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    edited September 2019
    Any and all DLC campaigns must be harder than the basegame ones, because you buy them after having already learned the ins and outs of the game and there's no reason to make exceptions for FLC stuff. Making it boringly easy is off, CA, especially when it's done in such an unsubtle fashion. About any game makes the additional content harder, not easier as well. Look at the new races that were added to Endless Space 2, they're both much trickier to use than the ones in the basegame.

    Learner factions should not come long after the game's launch, that's utterly nonsensical.

    @aimano Just let him go. He always complains about the difficulty of the game, or the lack thereof.

    The game is as challenging as you make it. I'll admit that the ai has never been great, but man this game is fun. Purposefully overreach, only recruit thematic armies. Don't walk around with a full stack of Saurus from the word go. Roleplay a little. Or God forbid @Ephraim_Dalton, maybe play something else for a while if you aren't happy with the game.

    I have only started playing again when the new content hit and neither you nor anyone else can tell me I can't voice my unhappiness about things I don't like with the game if CA doesn't really bother to fix them or makes them even worse.

    And for the record, I want the game's pacing to improve because the game massively loses steam by midgame due to the player becoming practically invincible. I don't want it to be more difficult for difficulty's sake.

  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Registered Users Posts: 1,035

    Any and all DLC campaigns must be harder than the basegame ones, because you buy them after having already learned the ins and outs of the game and there's no reason to make exceptions for FLC stuff. Making it boringly easy is off, CA, especially when it's done in such an unsubtle fashion. About any game makes the additional content harder, not easier as well. Look at the new races that were added to Endless Space 2, they're both much trickier to use than the ones in the basegame.

    Learner factions should not come long after the game's launch, that's utterly nonsensical.

    @aimano Just let him go. He always complains about the difficulty of the game, or the lack thereof.

    The game is as challenging as you make it. I'll admit that the ai has never been great, but man this game is fun. Purposefully overreach, only recruit thematic armies. Don't walk around with a full stack of Saurus from the word go. Roleplay a little. Or God forbid @Ephraim_Dalton, maybe play something else for a while if you aren't happy with the game.

    I have only started playing again when the new content hit and neither you nor anyone else can tell me I can't voice my unhappiness about things I don't like with the game if CA doesn't really bother to fix them or makes them even worse.

    And for the record, I want the game's pacing to improve because the game massively loses steam by midgame due to the player becoming practically invincible. I don't want it to be more difficult for difficulty's sake.
    No, all new content does not have to be "harder" or "more difficult" than existing content. That's a made up rule that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

    What ultimately matters is selling units, and usually that's done by adding stuff that isn't in the game already and which works in some form of synergy with what is already there. In some cases, if the game is a challenge game, then adding even more difficult stuff is the way to go. If the game is loot-based then adding even more powerful loot and even more powerful fodder to use it on is generally the way to go.

    This game is not a challenge game, however. It isn't even a dedicated 4x game, unlike Endless Space 2. The campaign is a relatively light weight strategy game that arguably is more of a vehicle to bring the player into interesting battles than it is about deep strategy, though of course there's some room for making good and bad decisions.

    Thus aiming purely to make things harder does not align well with what the game is actually about, and just making things more difficult hardly improves the pacing of the campaign after turn 75'ish. You can confirm this by playing Skarsnik on VH/VH or leg/VH. It isn't "dynamic" and there isn't "more pace", it's just an endless series of kicks to the groin.

    What that ought to tell both of us is that the solution to the post-turn-75 issue is deeper than just "game easy, make hard". The issue is deeper than just "turn 50, now has lots of moneys".
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 9,438

    aimano said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.
    Kroak doesn't need to be removed ffs. Gor-Rok's start position is classified as EASY for a reason. Stop trying to ruin other people's fun because you're so 'good'.
    Yes, he needs to be removed. There are already too many joke campaigns in the game that are a snoozefest by turn one. CA needs to reduced their number not pile even more on top.
    I doubt you're going to get many people behind that notion. To remove Kroak that is. Not only can he be fun to use but he can also be a nuissance to face. This is not one of your more reasonable positions.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 28,310
    RikRiorik said:

    aimano said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.
    Kroak doesn't need to be removed ffs. Gor-Rok's start position is classified as EASY for a reason. Stop trying to ruin other people's fun because you're so 'good'.
    Yes, he needs to be removed. There are already too many joke campaigns in the game that are a snoozefest by turn one. CA needs to reduced their number not pile even more on top.
    I doubt you're going to get many people behind that notion. To remove Kroak that is. Not only can he be fun to use but he can also be a nuissance to face. This is not one of your more reasonable positions.
    AI Itza doesn't start with Kroak.

    Kroak at turn one turns Itza's campaign into a bad joke. You are already invincible by turn one. Don't see a reason why anyone should ever bother with that campaign.

  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 9,438

    RikRiorik said:

    aimano said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.
    Kroak doesn't need to be removed ffs. Gor-Rok's start position is classified as EASY for a reason. Stop trying to ruin other people's fun because you're so 'good'.
    Yes, he needs to be removed. There are already too many joke campaigns in the game that are a snoozefest by turn one. CA needs to reduced their number not pile even more on top.
    I doubt you're going to get many people behind that notion. To remove Kroak that is. Not only can he be fun to use but he can also be a nuissance to face. This is not one of your more reasonable positions.
    AI Itza doesn't start with Kroak.

    Kroak at turn one turns Itza's campaign into a bad joke. You are already invincible by turn one. Don't see a reason why anyone should ever bother with that campaign.
    I thought you were making an argument that he should be removed in his entirety. My apologies.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Registered Users Posts: 1,035

    RikRiorik said:

    aimano said:

    RikRiorik said:

    Personally, yes, I’d prefer Kroak to be an unlock. Because I generally like to have to work a bit for my goodies.

    But every once in a while it is still nice to go on a super power trip and demolish all before you. Gor-rok provides that. I’m fine with his start from that perspective. After all there are a fair few other lords to choose from.

    Side note. Redcrested Skinks aren’t half bad. Especially when buffed up and ritualized. I never used any other front line in my Tehenhauin campaign.

    Every campaign is a perpetual powertrip after early game. This campaign skips you right to the boring part of it, the one where you are invincible and just steamroll the map.

    Kroak needs to be removed.
    Kroak doesn't need to be removed ffs. Gor-Rok's start position is classified as EASY for a reason. Stop trying to ruin other people's fun because you're so 'good'.
    Yes, he needs to be removed. There are already too many joke campaigns in the game that are a snoozefest by turn one. CA needs to reduced their number not pile even more on top.
    I doubt you're going to get many people behind that notion. To remove Kroak that is. Not only can he be fun to use but he can also be a nuissance to face. This is not one of your more reasonable positions.
    AI Itza doesn't start with Kroak.

    Kroak at turn one turns Itza's campaign into a bad joke. You are already invincible by turn one. Don't see a reason why anyone should ever bother with that campaign.
    It's a Kroak campaign. Kroak is the whole point of Itza. Try take a look at Gor-Rok without Kroak and tell me what there is? Without Kroak he's pretty much a generic saurus lord with some special skills and no mount.

    AI Itza doesn't start with Kroak because having a Kroak campaign means nothing to the AI but will mess up balance and will create problems if he's also unlocked by the player.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 4,217
    First i was a bit miffed about his availability at turn one but then i realized after reading this thread that it´s a non issue, if i want to play Gor-Rok and i want to challenge myself as i often do when playing legendary i will just avoid using him...like having him standing near Itza and looking dead for the entirety of the game....I forgot for a second that i as a human being actually possess something called self control.....


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