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Speculation about remaining factions, units and LLs to come in WH2

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  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    Ugh, the Skink Oracle lord meme...

    Oracles on the tabletop were basically Priests that had a special bond with Troglodons instead of having magic. They're not character material.

    If you need to squeeze a character in, Game 3 will probably come with flying lords or at least lords that have mechanics that resemble flying. So do the Coatl justice and put it in as a character so it gets its proper access to lores.

    Heck, given that the fluff of the Dragon Isles is that they have no Slann, Coatl could be what they get instead of Slann.

    That would be really cool tbh yes!
    Labria said:



    Dark Elves don't need generic wit

    Dark Elves don't need one female character. They missing only interesting male characters: Malus, Tullaris, Kouran and Rakarth(6th edition). Shadowblade is better material for Legendary hero.

    Dragon Isles is perfect area for new Lizardmen Legendary Lord in game 3. I think we will get Tetto'eko FLC or even lord pack with Troglodon, Coatl and maybe Tichi-Huichi's Raiders.

    There is no limit of number of Legendary Lords.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/d1oe0f/the_hunter_the_beast_ama_with_the_warhammer_ii/eztk87f/?context=3

    Lizardmen still missing Tetto'eko, Oxyotl and Chakax.

    I don't really understand how Tetto'eko or Chakax would end up in the Dragon Islands tbh. Xlanhuapec isn't the most outward of cities to begin with and Chakax isn't about to leave for a place nobody there has heard about for centuries. Besides Ulha'up, Oxyotl would be the only Lizardman remotely in the area, since he's been to the Lost City of the Old Ones in Khurresh, but that's way too far east to be represented in WH3.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,802Registered Users
    Labria said:


    There is no limit of number of Legendary Lords.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/d1oe0f/the_hunter_the_beast_ama_with_the_warhammer_ii/eztk87f/?context=3

    Lizardmen still missing Tetto'eko, Oxyotl and Chakax.

    There's no hard limit, but there probably at least a temporary soft limit for races that are already above the current mode of 4. We could end up with the current record of 6 being broken by the end of the series, but I certainly would be surprised if Lizardmen get anything else before TWW3 releases.

  • LabriaLabria Posts: 507Registered Users
    edited October 1

    Draxynnic said:

    Ugh, the Skink Oracle lord meme...

    Oracles on the tabletop were basically Priests that had a special bond with Troglodons instead of having magic. They're not character material.

    If you need to squeeze a character in, Game 3 will probably come with flying lords or at least lords that have mechanics that resemble flying. So do the Coatl justice and put it in as a character so it gets its proper access to lores.

    Heck, given that the fluff of the Dragon Isles is that they have no Slann, Coatl could be what they get instead of Slann.

    That would be really cool tbh yes!
    Labria said:



    Dark Elves don't need generic wit

    Dark Elves don't need one female character. They missing only interesting male characters: Malus, Tullaris, Kouran and Rakarth(6th edition). Shadowblade is better material for Legendary hero.

    Dragon Isles is perfect area for new Lizardmen Legendary Lord in game 3. I think we will get Tetto'eko FLC or even lord pack with Troglodon, Coatl and maybe Tichi-Huichi's Raiders.

    There is no limit of number of Legendary Lords.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/d1oe0f/the_hunter_the_beast_ama_with_the_warhammer_ii/eztk87f/?context=3

    Lizardmen still missing Tetto'eko, Oxyotl and Chakax.

    I don't really understand how Tetto'eko or Chakax would end up in the Dragon Islands tbh. Xlanhuapec isn't the most outward of cities to begin with and Chakax isn't about to leave for a place nobody there has heard about for centuries. Besides Ulha'up, Oxyotl would be the only Lizardman remotely in the area, since he's been to the Lost City of the Old Ones in Khurresh, but that's way too far east to be represented in WH3.
    Expedition? Same style like Tiktaq'to end up in the Tlaqua. CA prefer interesting gameplay. Lustria doesn't need more Lizardmen LLs. But I don't think we will get more lizardmen LL in game 2. Dragon Islands is ideal starting position for Lizardmen FLC/DLC in game 3.
    Draxynnic said:

    Labria said:


    There is no limit of number of Legendary Lords.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/d1oe0f/the_hunter_the_beast_ama_with_the_warhammer_ii/eztk87f/?context=3

    Lizardmen still missing Tetto'eko, Oxyotl and Chakax.

    There's no hard limit, but there probably at least a temporary soft limit for races that are already above the current mode of 4. We could end up with the current record of 6 being broken by the end of the series, but I certainly would be surprised if Lizardmen get anything else before TWW3 releases.

    I agree. No more LIzardmen LL before game 3. I hope CA will focus to add new LLs for Wood Elves, Norsca, Beastmen, Bretonnia and WoC. We need at least four LLs for each race.
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    The Empire of Man

    From the most ancient civilization in the Warhammer World, we now jump to the most pivotal and central piece in recent years. The Empire. This proud nation of men currently counts 3 factions and 4 lords amongst its playable options:

    Karl Franz, Emperor & Prince of Reikland
    Volkmar the Grim, the great grand battle pope of the Empire
    Balthasar Gelt, Great Holy Gold Wizard and not elector count of not-Solland
    Markus Wulfhart, presumptuous and arrogant invader of Lustria


    2 different homeland startpositions, 1 expedition in Lustria. Now assuming for the moment that the additional start as Volkmar in Reikland doesn't really count towards additional lord availability, this means that we can expect an additional 3 lords for the Empire in the future of WH2. This likely means we'll be getting 2 ACTUAL ELECTOR COUNTS and 1 more expedition.

    Factions/Units/Lords possiblie for addition:

    Among the remaining Empire Provinces we count the following: Hochland, Ostermark, Ostland, Talabecland, Averland Wissenland, Nordland, Stirland and Middenland. Im not gonna be counting in Marienburg here because, while it is important city-wise, as a strategic faction its basically just cannon-fodder for all its neighbors. In addition, another Empire faction on the map include Sudenburg in southern Araby. You know the pattern by now, lets jump into the Unlikely category.

    The Unlikely: Hochland, Ostermark, Ostland, Talabecland, Averland and Wissenland

    Many of these provinces are actually simply victims of being surrounded by already playable factions or undoubtedly future playable factions.
    Hochland is definetly a victim of its own geography. Directly east of Middenland and trapped by its hold over the Middle Mountains makes this tiny province almost impossible to bring into the light.
    Ostermark is not much better off with Kislev to the north, Ungrim Ironfist to the east and Manfred von Carstein to the south.
    Ostland I also see as unlikely in the same way as Hochland, as it is rather stuck between Rock Middenland and Hard Place Kislev.
    Talabecland might sit right at the center of the Empire, but it still borders Middenland in the north and Reikland in the west. Plus you can't have a playable faction start inside of another playable faction really, so if Taurox the Brass Bull is coming for the Beastmen, Talabecland is screwed even more.
    Averland and its Mad Count potential is just a tad bit higher, but still borders Gelt to the south so that dims it chances.
    Wissenland granted is a major province, but its current surroundings of Balthasar Gelt, Reikland and Skarsnik makes it unlikely to come, even with the Dark Lady of Nuln at the helm. Its options for expansion are basically zero. it lost its chances when Solland was given to Gelt.

    The Likely: Nordland, Stirland and Middenland /Sudenburg

    3 provinces and 1 expedition, as I see it, are vying for the remaining open spots. These are the factions that can offer the most interesting start positions in the homeland, in short with the greatest oppertunities to expand. Let me explain why.

    Nordland:



    Faction Leader: Elector Count Theoderic Gausser

    New Units: Sons of Manann, Order of the Winter Throne, Empire Marines, Leopold's Lions, Norscan Mercenaries(?) + Empire Admiral Lord


    Describtion: Nordland might seem a minor faction at first glance, but hidden beneath is a lot of potential. Nordland, besides Ostland, is the only imperial province that has a coast and its the home of the Imperial Second Fleet and its charged with protection of the imperial coastline from the Norscans. In other words, Nordland is almost always a frontier region in a state of raids and war. Its ruler, Theoderic Gausser, is thereby known as the Terror of the Norscans. He is also the rightfully titled prince of Marienburg, which only expands his ambitions further. In fact, Theoderic's ambitions against even his neighboring provinces has been such a cause for concern for Karl Franz that he had to intervene with Balthasar Gelt turning the treasurary of Nordland into lead.

    With Nordland, we basically have a sea-focused Empire faction with possibilities to expand in both northern and western directions. Sharing the Ulrican units coming with Middenland, but also focus on sea-based warfare and units dedicated to Manann, Nordland can basically be transformed to lead an Empire crusade against Norsca. Naturally, Nordland would have to be expanded to include one more settlement to make it viable, likely bringing in Neues Emskrank, the Empire's failed project to replace Marienburg, as another port north of Salzenmund. However, its direct border with Middenland threatens its chances, but Im hoping that still Nordland's remaining positional possibilities outweigh this in the long run. Most likely Nordland would FLC coming alongside Middenland, but if raised to its own DLC, I can see no better than to be paired with Egil Styrbjörn of the Skaelings for the perfect thematics. "The Count & the Jarl".

    Stirland:



    Faction Leader: Elector Count Alberich Haupt-Anderssen

    New Units: Knights of the Raven, Templar Witch Hunters, Helhunten's Redeemers, Halfling Infantry(?) + Witch Hunter Lord & Hero/NPC Lord Alberich von Korden


    Describtion: Stirland, like Nordland, appears not very interesting at first either. Smacked right in the center of the Empire, it borders Averland and Talabecland in south and north. However, its to the east that this faction's potential comes to light. Sylvania and its reintegration into the Empire. In the lore, with Sylvania's fall to the Vampires, Stirland has recieved the territorial rights to those lands by imperial decree. This means that Stirland has a casus belli and unlike many other provinces, can wage war on its neighbors without causing serious imperial destabilization.

    With Stirland, squaring off against Manfred and the other von Carsteins will be your main agenda. If successful, you control 3 entire provinces and can designate a new Elector Count at your will. Much like Nordland can if it conquers Marienburg. Naturally, that job would fall to your main ally, Alberich von Korden, to prevent any further Vampiric resurgence. Once Sylvania is conquered, the Empire should be in a state of gradual unification, giving you new oppertunities as well as dangers. Maintaining your long-term indepndence can be a challenge, but if you manage as an autonomous ally of the Emperor, the Border Prince lands are not far away. Depending on who controls Averland, you could sweep south.

    Middenland:



    Faction Leader: Elector Count Graf Boris Todbringer

    New Units: Knights of the White Wolf/Teutogen Guard, the Swords of Ulric (ROR), Knights Panther, the Winterbite Brigade (ROR), Wolf-Kin + Ulrican Battle Priest & Hero Emil Valgeir OR Vorn Thugenheim OR Rein Volkhard


    Describtion: Hardly necessary. Here's the Pretender to the Throne, Boris Todbringer. Almost elected Emperor but failed barely. Are you going to settle for that? Hardly, you are the beloved of Ulric for heaven sake! Lead your armies against whatever Beastmen still inhabit the Drakwald and then Marienburg to secure a port to the world. Then, use your influence to turn the Electors against Karl Franz. Mark my words, there will be conflict. War for the War-God, thrones for the Pretender! The King Emperor in the North!

    Middenland should have the ability to turn into The Empire if it successfully conquers Reikland and naturally have the ability to build Ulric-faithed buildings instead of Sigmarite. Perhaps a new religious mechanic keeping track of how many people throughout the provinces believe in Ulric or Sigmar.

    And now, the Expedition:

    Sudenburg:



    Faction Leader: Kurt Helborg, Reiksmarshal of the Empire

    New Units: Reikland XIII (Handgunner ROR), Griffon Legion (Greatsword ROR), Reiksguard Foot, the Bordermen (Outrider Grenade ROR), Von Zeppel Class Steam Tank(?) + updated Empire General(?)


    Describtion: Now the Empire is bringing out the big muscles! No more lousy state troops when you get the Reiksguard Infantry, top of the line melee infantry to join the Greatswords side by side. The Huntsmarshal leads an expedition of lowly archers and other men who fight from a distance. Its only natural that the Reiksmarshal brings those fight with steel and muscle. Wulfhart searches for gold in the New World, Helborg does the same in Araby, the Southlands and Nehekhara. Bones and scales to oppose you? Hardly! Faith in Sigmar, Steel and Gunpowder shall point the way to glory!

    This will certainly freshen up the campaign for both Tiktaq'to, Settra and Arkhan the Black to send in heavily armoured knights and new warmachines against them. The theme for Sudenburg under Helborg is of course Reikland muscle and can opperate under the same system as the Huntsmarshal does. Gain favour and gain more troops. The Reiksmarshal fights alone though, without the need to call in any other heroes. In terms of DLC, perhaps a pairing with Numas of the Tomb Kings would be appropriate. "The General & the King" or something along those lines.

  • LabriaLabria Posts: 507Registered Users
    edited October 1
    I agree about Middeland and Sudenburg.
    If we will get more playable Elector Counts. I prefer Marius Leitdorf in Averland and Valmir von Raukov(I love his model) in Ostland.

    Balthasar Gelt is not problem for Averland. Marius Leitdorf will be focus to fight against vampires on east. He can also expand to Border Princes area. Stirland has only one option on east. Averland is better choice. Marius Leitdorf is one of most interesting Elector Count.

    I don't think Nordland will be playable. We have thee better LLs options close to Nordland, Wood Elves LL in Laurelorn, Greenskins LL in Black Pit and Boris in Middenheim.

    Ostland will have greater potencial in game 3 with new factions and provinces in Kislev area. Valmir von Raukov can start with Norsca invasion in his province. You can expand to Norsca and Kislev area. Also. Azhag and Throt will be interesting enemies.
    Valmir von Raukov can have a few Kislev units.
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Labria said:

    I agree about Middeland and Sudenburg.
    If we will get more playable Elector Counts. I prefer Marius Leitdorf in Averland and Valmir von Raukov(I love his model) in Ostland.

    Balthasar Gelt is not problem for Averland. Marius Leitdorf will be focus to fight against vampires on east. He can also expand to Border Princes area. Stirland has only one option on east. Averland is better choice. Marius Leitdorf is one of most interesting Elector Count.

    I don't think Nordland will be playable. We have thee better LLs options close to Nordland, Wood Elves LL in Laurelorn, Greenskins LL in Black Pit and Boris in Middenheim.

    Ostland will have greater potencial in game 3 with new factions and provinces in Kislev area. Valmir von Raukov can start with Norsca invasion in his province. You can expand to Norsca and Kislev area. Also. Azhag and Throt will be interesting enemies.
    Valmir von Raukov can have a few Kislev units.

    Honestly Averland and Stirland are pretty interchangable. Stirland has the legitimate cause, Averland has the better character. I just tried to seperate a little from Gelt. Whichever of these will be focused on witch hunters regardless.

    Do you really think that game 3 will span all the way to Ostland? I would think that defeats the purpose of adding details to the Dark Lands if we still keep that large a portion of the old map. Plus the campaign map would look pretty weird with that large an extention to the northwest. Assuming for the moment that Kislev remains intact, or at the very least controls Erengrad, on ME come WH3, Ostland would find itself rather constricted.

    However, I will admit that Im partial to Nordland in similar that you are partial to Ostland. Im swedish and the blue-yellow of Nordland speaks to me.
  • LabriaLabria Posts: 507Registered Users
    edited October 1

    Labria said:

    I agree about Middeland and Sudenburg.
    If we will get more playable Elector Counts. I prefer Marius Leitdorf in Averland and Valmir von Raukov(I love his model) in Ostland.

    Balthasar Gelt is not problem for Averland. Marius Leitdorf will be focus to fight against vampires on east. He can also expand to Border Princes area. Stirland has only one option on east. Averland is better choice. Marius Leitdorf is one of most interesting Elector Count.

    I don't think Nordland will be playable. We have thee better LLs options close to Nordland, Wood Elves LL in Laurelorn, Greenskins LL in Black Pit and Boris in Middenheim.

    Ostland will have greater potencial in game 3 with new factions and provinces in Kislev area. Valmir von Raukov can start with Norsca invasion in his province. You can expand to Norsca and Kislev area. Also. Azhag and Throt will be interesting enemies.
    Valmir von Raukov can have a few Kislev units.

    Honestly Averland and Stirland are pretty interchangable. Stirland has the legitimate cause, Averland has the better character. I just tried to seperate a little from Gelt. Whichever of these will be focused on witch hunters regardless.

    Do you really think that game 3 will span all the way to Ostland? I would think that defeats the purpose of adding details to the Dark Lands if we still keep that large a portion of the old map. Plus the campaign map would look pretty weird with that large an extention to the northwest. Assuming for the moment that Kislev remains intact, or at the very least controls Erengrad, on ME come WH3, Ostland would find itself rather constricted.

    However, I will admit that Im partial to Nordland in similar that you are partial to Ostland. Im swedish and the blue-yellow of Nordland speaks to me.
    I mean Ostland on Mortal Empires 2.0 map. I am sure Kislev area will have rework with new Kislev race in Mortal Empires 2.0. Azhag faction in Troll Country will be good enemy. Erengrad faction is perfect place for expansion. Erengrad port has good income. Erengrad is Marienburg on the North. :D

    Sure, Ostland can be part of Game 3 if we will get Kislev area on main map for game 3. Like on this map: https://i.imgur.com/CRcetMn.jpg
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    Norsca

    The Empire opposes Chaos. Now lets look at those who serve it. The Warriors of the North currently claim only 2 Lords available to them at this moment:

    Wulfrik the Wanderer, Champion of the Sarls all of Norsca
    Throgg, King of Trolls with hardly any Trolls to be King over.

    2 factions in the homeland. That's it. If Norsca were like the rest of the races, this would mean a wopping 4 open spots to be filled. However, with the state of Warhamme 2 and without making any predictions about the coming of Chaos in Warhammer 3, I think that this race can only really sustain an additional 2 Lords and factions. Lets look at the possibilities.

    Factions/Units/Lords possible for addition:

    Looking over the world map, we see 10 further active Norscan factions: the Helspire, Goromadny, Naglfarlings, Vanaheimlings, Aghol, Bjornlings, Mung, Varg, Skeggi and Skaelings. But there are also 4 other dormant factions subject to awakening by Chaos itself: Sarls, Aeslings, Baersonlings and the Graelings. As usual, there are Unlikely and Likely candidates out of these.

    The Unlikely: Helspire, Goromadny, Naglfarlings, Vanaheimlings, Aghol, Bjornlings, Mung, Varg / Sarls, Aesling, Baersonlings and Graelings

    The reasoning for this is that most of these active factions are straight out fabrication place-holders in order to further the current Chaos playstyle that CA has established. Chaos are supposed to awaken the dormant, lore-accurate factions and rally them to their side for their grand invasions of the world later on. Basically a Chaos training ground. This, in combination with the positioning of the playable Norscan factions, reduces the possibility of even the accurate active factions. Sadly, being a neighbor of Throgg, the Surtha Ek meme will not survive into playable status, especially considering what's also exactly south of the Vargs. Unless CA changes the Chaos strategy come WH3, I do not see potential in any of these to make it there. If all accurate tribes are somehow restored by game 3, only the Graelings, at the northwestern edge would even come close to offering anything interesting with Haargoth the Bloodied at the helm.

    The Likely: Skeggi and Skaelings

    One of these is the tribe of a remaining major character and one is a Norscan Outpost in the New World. I see no other options for the non-Chaos affiliated Norscans to distinguish themselves than these 2 factions. So lets examine what we're getting with these.

    Skeggi:



    Faction Leader: Losteriksson, the First Explorer

    New Units: Norscan Whalers, Reavers, Slavers, Marauder Cold One Cavalry + Reaver/Slaver Sea Lord


    Describtion: Long before any Old Worlder ever set foot in Lustria, Losteriksson did. Curious about this foreign land, he lead his men into the jungle. There, they found an abandoned city and found gold within. Returning home telling tales of this land, he lead the establishment of an outpost on those very shores. An outpost that has withstood the test of time and Lizardmen attacks alike. But now, is the time to conquer and burn this wretched jungle to the ground! FOR CHAOS!

    Look, for WH2, Norsca needs to take what it can get. The only other tribes in the Vortex arena are the Mung and the Aghol. What lore is there about them to justify a playable faction to battle Malekith? None. A DLC square-off? Even less. The strategy for Skeggi will be to simply delay Mazdamundi and Cylostra from roling over it. Ally and support the Skaven Gnaw Clan for a 2-front war, call in Morathi from the north, attack/colonize/ally with the Blue Vipers to buy additional time to build up Skeggi. Hell, even check in Noctilus if he's able to dispatch any help. This is what Total War players would call a Legendary Pro-Hard start with sunglasses attached.

    Skaelings:



    Faction Leader: Egil Styrbjorn, the Slayer of Souls and Butcher of Immortals

    New Units: Bondsmen, Huscarls, Curs'd Ettins(?) and other Khorne-themed units + Seer Hero & updated Norscan Warchief(?)


    Describtion: Its a given that this is gonna happen, regardless of the fact that the Skaelings border Wulfrik on ME. If CA wants a more accurate representation of what little sliver of Norsca is available in Vortex, give it to the Graelings and Haargoth the Bloodied, but now its the Skaelings under Egil Styrbjorn, the only remaining major Norscan faction left to add in. Your mission is brutally simple: Lay waste to Ulthuan. Take Lothern as a base for further raiding to the world beyond. See if you can make it to save Skeggi from Mazdamundi. On ME, turn the tables on Wulfrik, cleave Throgg's face in as many pieces as you want and unify Norsca under a rightful High King!


  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,802Registered Users
    I put Skeggi in the 'highly unlikely' category. It'd be like giving a LL and start position to the Bloody Spears.

    Mung and Aghols aren't as unlikely as that - the Dark Elves facing invasions from the north occasionally is well established in the fluff. Main problem is finding a suitable character - Valkia is usually associated with attacking Naggaroth, but she's a chosen of Khorne, and the Norsca campaign is based on the LL being as-yet unpledged.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    The Dwarfs

    Norsca is a place frozen. Frozen plains, frozen forests and frozen mountains. And it is now to the mountains that we shall look, for our next race to talk about lives there. The Dwarfs, much like their Empire allies, currently boast 3 playable factions and 4 Lords, which are the following:

    Thorgrim Grudgebearer, High King of the Karaz Ankor
    Grombrindal the White Dwarf
    Ungrim Ironfist, the Slayer King of Karak Kadrin
    Belegar Ironhammer, Rightful King of Karak Eight Peaks


    2 factions in the core Worlds Edge Mountains, 1 in the Grey Mountains. Again assuming that the additional lord for the main faction doesn't count towards Lord availability, this means that 3 additional factions will be available to be raised to playable status. Lets see what we have to work with.

    Factions/Units/Lords available for addition:

    Examining the map of ME, we can see an additional 9 dwarven factions. These factions are: Karak Norn, Karak Ziflin, Greybeard's Prospectors, Karak Hirn, Karak Azul, Barak Varr, Karak ZANK, Karak Zorn and Kraka Drak. 5 of these are core dwarven realms in either the Grey or World's Edge Mountains, 4 are either expeditions or realms that are cut off from the rest of the Karaz Ankor. This makes it likely to see that none of the core realms has a chance of making it in, in favour of Lost Realms and expeditions. Maybe 1 core realm has a chance, but that's about it.

    The Unlikely: Karak Norn, Karak Ziflin, Greybeard's Prospectors, Karak Hirn, Karak Azul and Barak Varr

    Here we see basically all the core realms and one of the expeditions. And much I explained in the Empire section, a lot of these are victims of their own locations.
    Karak Norn, Karak Ziflin and Greybeard's Prospectors are minor realms and basically just cannon fodder for playable factions in the neighborhood: Norn to Skarsnik & the Wood Elves, Ziflin to Kemmler & Bretonnia and the Priospectors (which is a non-lore faction to top it off) to Arkhan the Black.
    Karak Hirn is a growing kingdom, but its bordered by Balthasar Gelt in Solland and is a close confederacy target for Thorgrim in Karaz-a-Karak.
    Karak Azul is fairly isolated to be sure and a major realm, but is still rather close to Grimgor Ironhide and besides, wouldn't really offer anything new to the strategy of Dwarfs in the region, since the High King is encouraged heavily to drive south in his campaign and will find himself in this very region soon enough. Definetly more likely than Hirn and the others.
    Barak Varr is perhaps the most distinct of all the core realms since it is a sea-port, however I see more potential in it, as a sea-going Dwarf faction to be among the fore-runners of Dwarfs in Warhammer 3 in the seas outside the Dark Lands. And its homeland proximity to the High King is certainly a downing in its chances. One of the first, if not THE first confederacy target for Thorgrim to gain a fortified port to the world. But I'd say it can also replace one of the lost holds in the Vortex map if CA wants it badly enough.
    I would also be negligent if I didn't mention Josef Bugman. Thinking about him, he could possibly be made into the leader of an Ekrund/Brewer faction that would have its mission to reclaim Ekrund from the Greenskins, like with Belegar. But space is hard to come by for that type of faction, which would almost force it to start as a horde. Its possible, but designing a horde driven Dwarf campaign will take some creative thinking

    The Likely: Karak ZANK, Karak Zorn, Josef Bugman and Kraka Drak

    What we have here people, is a simple question of geography. One realm in the Southlands, one in Lustria and one in northern Norsca. I think the logic is pretty simple here. Geographically seperate regions that will provide new challenges. Lets examine what those challenges are.

    Karak Zank/Spine of Sotek Dwarves:



    Faction Leader: Sven Hasselfriesian

    New Units: Thunderbarge, Dwarf Juggernaut, some form of Dwarf Explorer/Colonial unit + Dwarf Admiral Lord(?)


    Describtion: As if Lustria didn't have enough problems with gold hunters sent by races that technically should count as allies against Chaos. Here's the Dwarven variant of that! Karak Dank Zank, the ancient lost hold that were caught on the wrong side of the world when the continents broke off. Sven "the Magnificent" Hasselfriesian leads an expedition of dwarves to plunder the riches of Lustria, having sailed here aboard his Wolkswagen Voltsvagn. Lord Kroak is spinning in his mummification.

    With slight alteration to Lustria's mountain provinces (making the northern spines actually mountains), Karak Zank/Spine of Sotek Dwarves/Sven's Expedition or WHATEVER you want to call it, will encourage aggressive, expansionistic Dwarven strategy. It means squaring off aganst Nakai to the north, Clan Pestilens and Itza to the east (as if it didn't have enough enemies already), Teclis to the west (and the best faction yet to take his arrogant face out quickly) and Khalida and Tehenuain to the south, so no shortage of enemies, that's for sure. Once the spines are secured, make Mazdamundi your friend (despite the fact that you've probably blown up half a continet's worth of lizards at this point) and get access through Hexoatl up to Naggaroth to claim all the mountains there. The New World Dwarf Empire!

    Karak Zorn:



    Faction Leader: (Unknown) Maybe Bardin Goreksson (Vermintide character)

    New Units: Southlands-themed Dwarf units


    Describtion: The fabled lost hold. Said to be carved out of a golden mountain and be so rich in rubies and diamonds that they're used as common currency...

    Okay look, its the only other viable Dwarf faction in WH2, but I don't have much else from a describtive lore-perspective. The only character I could find even remotely associated is Bardin Goreksson and he's a made-up character from another game franchise (he finds an actual map to Zorn, which means he could go there on an expedition). The Great Mountains of the Southlands will need to be expanded upon to make Zorn really viable, but they do physical span the entire length of the continent, so its possible.

    Kraka Drak:



    Faction Leader: Great King Thorgard Cromson

    New Units: Norse Dwarf infantry, Norse Dwarf Berserker, Doomseekers, the Tractator Engine + Norse Dwarf Lord


    Describtion: The Dragon Hold of Norsca. The seat of the Great King of the Norse Dwarves who brave the Chaos-infested mountains of the north. Yet this realm the Norse Dwarves is in peril. Almost all holds have been lost and Chaos is asserting itself to the northeast. Its time for Thorgard Cromson to rally his people to fight for their very survival.

    Naturally, Norsca will need to be resized and redesigned for this to be a faction with viable goals. The other holds need to be added, either occupied by Norscans, in ruins or perhaps under other Norse Dwarf minor factions. There are the named characters to do so, though not for Kraka Ungrim. Another major feature would be to gain control of the Ungruvalk, your gateway to the seas and lands south of you. Either featured as a narrow corridor of territory or a permanent long-range army teleportation and trade system.

  • LabriaLabria Posts: 507Registered Users
    edited October 2
    I think you should make own post for every race. This is a big mess.
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Labria said:

    I think you should make own post for every race. This is a big mess.

    A little late to change concept now, there are only a few races left.
  • LabriaLabria Posts: 507Registered Users

    Labria said:

    I think you should make own post for every race. This is a big mess.

    A little late to change concept now, there are only a few races left.
    Maybe, but your work will be forgotten. You can at least make new big post with all races after you finish them and use spoiler function for every race.
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    The Skaven

    We move on from the Dwarves, to one of their primary enemies. The Skaven. The Ratmen can currently count 4 factions and lords among their current options, which are:
    Warlord Queek Headtaker of Clan Mors in the Southlands
    Plaguelord Skrolk of Clan Pestilens in Lustria
    Chief Warlock Engineer Ikit Claw of Clan Skryre, either in Lustria or the capital of Skavenblight
    Chieftain Tretch Craventail of Clan Rictus in Naggaroth

    What we see here, is a wide mix of positions, both physical and in terms of prestige. 2 major Clans and 2 minor. Either 3 in the New World and 1 in the Southlands, or 2 in the New World, 1 in the Southlands and 1 in the Old World. Out of this we can see that the Skaven are missing 2 Lord spots at this moment. Lets see what we can do about that.

    Factions/Units/Lords possible for addition:
    The remaining Skaven factions in WH2 are Clans Spittel, Septik, Gnaw, Mordkin, Eshin and Moulder. In addition, I'd like to bring in one seperate character to light for consideration: Grey Seer Thanquol. To save time, I think its pretty safe to say that Clans Spittel, Septik, Gnaw and Mordkin are pretty much off the map, because there are pretty major stuff still to be added for the Skaven. So thereby, 3 factions are competing for 2 spots. 1 of these are a given, while the other 2 are fighting for the remaining spot. Let me demonstrate.

    Spot "5": Clan Moulder



    Faction Leader: Throt the Unclean

    New Units: Throtlings, Giant Rats, Stormfiends, Armoured/Mutant Rat Ogres & Burrowing Behemoth + Packmaster OR Master Mutator Lord


    Describtion:
    Adding Clan Moulder will basically complete the Skaven roster. While they already have Rat Ogres and Hell Pit Abominations, that is only Moulder lite. Adding in Moulder as a faction will bring in the true warpstone-pulsing muscles of the Skaven to really put them on par with the terrifying monsters of the Lizardmen, along with a pseudo-monstrous lord, Throt the Unclean. With Moulder, the Skaven will finally have the ability to swarm all over the Empire and the northern parts of the World's Edge Mountains out of Hellpit. On the Vortex map, it will probably start where it does now, or perhaps adding it as an invasion of Ulthuan could be in the cards, since HE campers can just outright avoid Skaven conflicts otherwise. Also, Moulder will likely be a playable faction in WH3, if the map extends that far, alongside Clan Rictus.

    Spot "6": Grey Seer Order OR Clan Eshin



    Faction Leader: Grey Seer Thanquol/ Deathmaster Snikch of Clan Eshin

    New Units: Deathmaster OR Eshin Sorcerer Lord + whatever's left that doesn't come with Moulder


    Describtion:
    Thing is, these guys are, atleast to me, pretty interchangeable. Both are major Skaven characters/factions and both are not really tied to a specific capital or region. Clan Eshin is so mysterious, even the Skaven themselves don't know where they live. And thing is, what is distinct about them, the assassin stuff, is already in the game. All kinds of Runners and an assassin hero. All that's really missing is an Assassin Lord. Which honestly makes adding a physically playable faction out of one that specializes to operating on the sidelines, kind of redundant. Their current representation is adequate and "unique campaign mechanics" would likely be a carbon copy of Alith Anar's kill-target system. Should Eshin be added though, it will likely remain in the Southlands and be allocated to Mordheim in Ostermark on ME.

    As for Thanquol, its also somewhat the same. The main arguments for adding Thanquol is his monstrous mount Boneripper, his semi-lorefriendly territorial flexibility, his likely campaign quest to summon Bloodthirster Skarbrand and first and foremost: the adding of Gotrek and Felix to the campaign. That sweet, sweet rivalry. If Thanquol makes it, he can basically start anywhere. Both on Vortex and ME. Maybe in western Lustria or Naggaroth, close to Teclis, Mazdamundi or Khatep to fill those generally empty regions. Or in Ulthuan as I mentioned with Moulder.



  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,802Registered Users
    Putting a Skaven start on Ulthuan would be surprising to say the least, since the WH2 campaign start makes a point of saying that Ulthuan is the only continent that is Skaven-free.

    (I would note that I have been attacked by Tretch on Ulthuan in a HE playthrough)
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    Wood Elves

    And now we move on to the last of the Elven species, the inhabitants of Athel Loren. The Wood Elves count only 2 Lords among their options as of this moment, High King Orion and Elder Treeman Durthu at opposite ends of the Forest. This means that they, along with Norsca, are the race with the most room for new factions and lords to take the stage, with potential room for 4 more. However, the somewhat limited playstyle of the Wood Elves will likely reduce that number to just 2, MAYBE 3 if WH3 includes a playable WE faction.

    Factions/Units/Lords possible for addition:
    Unlike most races I've talked about so far, for the Wood Elves its not a case of more factions being added, its a question of specific characters being made playable. We have heroes and legends such as Lord Daith, Thalandor Doomstar, Naeith the Prophetess, Naestra/Arahan and Scarloc. However, 3 specific characters come to mind when talking about missing WE lords. Let me just add before we jump into these 3 the fact that the Wood Elf unit roster is close to complete. The only real units left to add, besides ROR, are Ghost Striders and Unicorns + maybe a feral Great Stag herd. Anyway, the characters.

    Araloth the Bold:



    Location: Oreon's Camp

    Describtion: Araloth is the real Lord of Talsyn, which Orion currently rules in-game. As the Champion of Queen Ariel herself, it would make sort of sense to send him on an expedition... somewhere to find... something and it might as well be to replace the obscure Oreon in the Soutlands. This would very quickly bring you into conflict with Tiktaq'to and the Dwarfs of Karak Zorn, while your long term adversaries would be Kroq-Gar to the south, Tomb Kings and Vampires to the north and perhaps even the Skaven in the extreme south. It really depends on what campaign mechanics will come with this start to make it interesting.

    Queen Ariel:



    Location: Talsyn OR Laurelorn

    Describtion: I think it really depends on how CA wants to showcase Laurelorn if Queen Ariel is gonna have a chance of her own faction. Otherwise I see her as simply a Co-Lord of Orion's in Talsyn. Ariel, as the Queen, would probably never have a good enough excuse to leave Athel Loren, unless it was to connect with the Eonir in Laurelorn. The only named ruler of Laurelorn is Marrisith, a Queen, but no other lore exists around her so I think putting Ariel in Laurelorn would be nice, if nothing else than to seperate her from Orion. As Laurelorn, your first objectives are to conquer the Black Pit province and to clear the area of Beastmen. Long term would be to either exist in peace with the Empire or take it over, as expanding into Norsca wouldn't really be a credible option for Wood Elves.

    Drycha:



    Location: Dark Lands coastal forest OR Naggaroth

    Describtion: The black sheep of Athel Loren. Imfamous for being... bothersome in the End Times. And fitting for a disturbed spirit, that we put her somewhere dark. Now, by necessity, since we've run out of viable forest locations, Drycha's faction would have to operate as a horde rather than a stationary tree-realm. Here we can draw inspiration from how Nakai was handled, minus the gifting of settlements. Actually, Drycha should represent the darker side of the wood elves and have her faction only able to raze settlements, maybe to replace them with some sort of magical forest, but that's just random speculation. Her traits make her the perfect candidate for the WE in chaos-filled WH3. Otherwise, somewhere in Naggaroth.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,488Registered Users
    edited October 7
    Can someone explain to me why exactly is Ariel put into Laurelorn when Drycha is the one wrecking the Empire from around Drakwald, and Drycha is put in Naggaroth when Ariel is the one that lead the invasion of Naggaroth in retaliation against Morathi?

    Where does this roundabout mentality come from?

    We need someone to wreck northern Empire and Drycha is a perfect candidate for that.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    Can someone explain to me why exactly is Ariel put into Laurelorn when Drycha is the one wrecking the Empire from around Drakwald, and Drycha is put in Naggaroth when Ariel is the one that lead the invasion of Naggaroth in retaliation against Morathi?

    Where does this roundabout mentality come from?

    We need someone to wreck northern Empire and Drycha is a perfect candidate for that.

    That would have been fine if Morathi was actually ruling Ghrond like she's supposed to do. The Worldroots that Ariel would use in this campaign deposit in and around Arnheim, which is in my opinion too close to Morathi's current location to offer an ultimate campaign goal. You'd have to work your way up through Naggaroth to provide a real challenge.

    As for Laurelorn, that realm is largely at peace and has good relations with the Empire in the lore, so I didn't think it would be appropriate to have a worldburner spawn there.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,488Registered Users

    Crossil said:

    Can someone explain to me why exactly is Ariel put into Laurelorn when Drycha is the one wrecking the Empire from around Drakwald, and Drycha is put in Naggaroth when Ariel is the one that lead the invasion of Naggaroth in retaliation against Morathi?

    Where does this roundabout mentality come from?

    We need someone to wreck northern Empire and Drycha is a perfect candidate for that.

    That would have been fine if Morathi was actually ruling Ghrond like she's supposed to do. The Worldroots that Ariel would use in this campaign deposit in and around Arnheim, which is in my opinion too close to Morathi's current location to offer an ultimate campaign goal. You'd have to work your way up through Naggaroth to provide a real challenge.

    As for Laurelorn, that realm is largely at peace and has good relations with the Empire in the lore, so I didn't think it would be appropriate to have a worldburner spawn there.
    I don't think the worldroots argument is firm. They could put Ariel in several locations on Naggaroth, northeast coast first among them, east of Hellebron.

    Then again I think Ariel should be implemented in a unique manner so I guess I can't argue about it a lot. I'll focus on Drycha.

    Drycha doesn't have to start ruling Laurelorn. If Laurelorn is left as is they won't ever do one thing they should do, wreck the Empire. So putting Drycha as a horde should work with a possibility of conquering Laurelorn or leaving it be early on. That works better than putting an Empire loving WE in the Empire which leaves the Empire with even LESS enemies to worry about, hell it just nets them a stronger northern ally. There have to be enemies within the Empire and Drycha is such an enemy.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    Drycha doesn't have to start ruling Laurelorn. If Laurelorn is left as is they won't ever do one thing they should do, wreck the Empire. So putting Drycha as a horde should work with a possibility of conquering Laurelorn or leaving it be early on. That works better than putting an Empire loving WE in the Empire which leaves the Empire with even LESS enemies to worry about, hell it just nets them a stronger northern ally. There have to be enemies within the Empire and Drycha is such an enemy.

    Don't worry, there's plenty of enemies for the Empire coming with the remaining races...

  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    The Beastmen

    We move on from one forest-dwelling race to another. The Beastmen. The Cloven ones can as of this moment count 3 Lords and factions to their ranks. These are:

    Khazrak the One-Eye, leader of the warherd in Estalia
    Morghur the Shadowgave of the warherd in Nordland
    Malagor the Dark Omen of the warherd in the Badlands


    3 different warherds in 3 different locations. From this we can extrapolate another three open spots for further Beastmen lords. With the Beastmen however, its kind of a different story than other factions, since they are a fully migratory race and doesn't really follow the homeland-expedition logic of other races. Still, since its mainly for the Vortex map we're looking for new starts, atleast 1 or 2 Beastmen should have a start somewhere in the New World. Lets see what we can do about that.

    Factions/Units/Lords possible for addition:
    Much like the WEs, its a question of characters rather than factions. Those major that come to mind are: The Harbinger, Ghorros Warhoof, Gorthor the Cruel and Taurox the Brass Bull. With 3 open spots, its a rather open-and-shut-case about 2 of these and then a face-off between the less likely ones for the last spot. Let me tell you right away how that is probably going to go. The Harbinger loses. Not only does he not represent anything really new in terms of units, he is also highly region-specific within Reikland and since Karl Franz has a secession to deal with at start, its probably not good to add another enemy close by. That leaves us with 3 lords to round out the Beastmen.

    Ghorros Warhoof



    Location: Probably Naggaroth or the Southlands

    New Units: Centigor Lord/Hero + some new form of Centigors


    Describtion:
    If you want a Beastman for the Vortex, you might as well go with Ghorros. He has galloped and humped all over the Old World so much that he must have at some point ended up in Nehekhara, the Southlands or even Naggaroth and been too drunk to notice. A classic crash-n-run faction of centigors, especially with 1 or 2 new variants, could be fun to roll over any faction. Your campaign objective would probably finding new suitable "breeding grounds" for even more centigors or something. That is as much as I can argue for a character who's main lore is about him either drinking, fighting and humping for more centigors. And not necessarily in that order either!

    Gorthor the Cruel



    Locations: Ostland

    New Units: Ghorgons, Preytons and Jabberslythe


    Describtion:
    If you want a wrecker of the northern empire along with Morghur, look no further than Gorthor the Cruel. While the Empire was busy with the Crusades against Araby, Gorthor rallied the Beastmen to lay waste to Ostland and Hochland. Leaving nothing but death in Ostland, Gorthor came upon the very gates of Hergig, capital of Hochland. Only the timely arrival of the Crusaders of the Blazing Sun stopped the city's fall. Gorthor hereby represents a good threat for both Ostland, Hochland and even Kislev's southern flank. Because you know, Ostland is supposed to be a region under siege regardless anyway. There is even potential in early Beastmen cooperation with Morghur in Nordland. You can both fall upon Middenland and then eventually to Altdorf itself. However, this may be a bit OP, so I'd just suggest moving Morghur to Estalia, Khazrak to western Middenland around Carroburg or the Wasteland for more space between herds.

    Taurox the Brass Bull



    Location: Talabecland OR somewhere in the New World

    New Units: Doombull Lord + maybe new variant of Minotaurs

    Describtion:
    And here we have the Beast to wreck the central portions of the Empire. This means that the Empire will have to deal with 3 warherds at once, 2 in the north and one in Talabecland. This way, every province has a natural enemy other than its fellow elector counts. Nordland and Middenland has Morghur (+Black Pit Orcs, Marienburg and Norsca), Hochland/Ostland has Gorthor, Talabecland has Taurox, Ostermark/Stirland/Averland has the Vampires AND maybe Taurox too, Gelt has the southern Orcs and Wissenland has Skarsnik once he gets going out of the mountains. However, if this is too much, then Taurox could probably just as well join Ghorros Warhoof in a quest in the Southlands or Naggaroth.



  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,802Registered Users
    Hasn't Gorthor been dead for centuries at the time the game starts?

    Moonclaw could be another possibility. Can't remember if he had any "can't be the army general" rules, and it's not practical for me to check my copy of the army book right now.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 1,627Registered Users

    Next Topic:

    The Beastmen

    We move on from one forest-dwelling race to another. The Beastmen. The Cloven ones can as of this moment count 3 Lords and factions to their ranks. These are:

    Khazrak the One-Eye, leader of the warherd in Estalia
    Morghur the Shadowgave of the warherd in Nordland
    Malagor the Dark Omen of the warherd in the Badlands


    3 different warherds in 3 different locations. From this we can extrapolate another three open spots for further Beastmen lords. With the Beastmen however, its kind of a different story than other factions, since they are a fully migratory race and doesn't really follow the homeland-expedition logic of other races. Still, since its mainly for the Vortex map we're looking for new starts, atleast 1 or 2 Beastmen should have a start somewhere in the New World. Lets see what we can do about that.

    Factions/Units/Lords possible for addition:
    Much like the WEs, its a question of characters rather than factions. Those major that come to mind are: The Harbinger, Ghorros Warhoof, Gorthor the Cruel and Taurox the Brass Bull. With 3 open spots, its a rather open-and-shut-case about 2 of these and then a face-off between the less likely ones for the last spot. Let me tell you right away how that is probably going to go. The Harbinger loses. Not only does he not represent anything really new in terms of units, he is also highly region-specific within Reikland and since Karl Franz has a secession to deal with at start, its probably not good to add another enemy close by. That leaves us with 3 lords to round out the Beastmen.

    Ghorros Warhoof



    Location: Probably Naggaroth or the Southlands

    New Units: Centigor Lord/Hero + some new form of Centigors


    Describtion:
    If you want a Beastman for the Vortex, you might as well go with Ghorros. He has galloped and humped all over the Old World so much that he must have at some point ended up in Nehekhara, the Southlands or even Naggaroth and been too drunk to notice. A classic crash-n-run faction of centigors, especially with 1 or 2 new variants, could be fun to roll over any faction. Your campaign objective would probably finding new suitable "breeding grounds" for even more centigors or something. That is as much as I can argue for a character who's main lore is about him either drinking, fighting and humping for more centigors. And not necessarily in that order either!

    Gorthor the Cruel



    Locations: Ostland

    New Units: Ghorgons, Preytons and Jabberslythe


    Describtion:
    If you want a wrecker of the northern empire along with Morghur, look no further than Gorthor the Cruel. While the Empire was busy with the Crusades against Araby, Gorthor rallied the Beastmen to lay waste to Ostland and Hochland. Leaving nothing but death in Ostland, Gorthor came upon the very gates of Hergig, capital of Hochland. Only the timely arrival of the Crusaders of the Blazing Sun stopped the city's fall. Gorthor hereby represents a good threat for both Ostland, Hochland and even Kislev's southern flank. Because you know, Ostland is supposed to be a region under siege regardless anyway. There is even potential in early Beastmen cooperation with Morghur in Nordland. You can both fall upon Middenland and then eventually to Altdorf itself. However, this may be a bit OP, so I'd just suggest moving Morghur to Estalia, Khazrak to western Middenland around Carroburg or the Wasteland for more space between herds.

    Taurox the Brass Bull



    Location: Talabecland OR somewhere in the New World

    New Units: Doombull Lord + maybe new variant of Minotaurs

    Describtion:
    And here we have the Beast to wreck the central portions of the Empire. This means that the Empire will have to deal with 3 warherds at once, 2 in the north and one in Talabecland. This way, every province has a natural enemy other than its fellow elector counts. Nordland and Middenland has Morghur (+Black Pit Orcs, Marienburg and Norsca), Hochland/Ostland has Gorthor, Talabecland has Taurox, Ostermark/Stirland/Averland has the Vampires AND maybe Taurox too, Gelt has the southern Orcs and Wissenland has Skarsnik once he gets going out of the mountains. However, if this is too much, then Taurox could probably just as well join Ghorros Warhoof in a quest in the Southlands or Naggaroth.



    I don't see Moonclaw and Slugtongue.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    Hasn't Gorthor been dead for centuries at the time the game starts?

    Moonclaw could be another possibility. Can't remember if he had any "can't be the army general" rules, and it's not practical for me to check my copy of the army book right now.

    neodeinos said:



    I don't see Moonclaw and Slugtongue.

    Honestly they seem better hero materials to me than faction leaders. Moonclaw could be a green knight type character for the Beastmen and Slugtongue didn't come across as having a specific objective or geographical grounding

  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Posts: 1,361Registered Users
    Moonclaw is best choice for beastmen
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    Vampire Coast

    From one bringer-race of Chaos, to one that brings another kind of Chaos. The Vampire Pirates. The Undead of this category can currently count 4 ship-lords among themselves, which are:
    Arch-Commodore Luthor Harkon in the homeland in Lustria
    Count Noctilus of the Dreadfleet in the Galleon's Graveyard
    Aranessa Saltspite, the not-vampire Queen of Sartosa
    Cylostra Direfin, Captain of the Lamprey in southern Naggaroth

    4 captains, but all generally in the same central parts of the ocean. If there is still content coming for the Vampire Coast, this would mean we could see an additional 2 lords to terrorize the seas with. As for starts, the southern and central seas are already covered, so now it would seem it is time to fill the northern seas around Naggaroth and Norsca. Lets see who's ready to answer that call to booty.

    Factions/Units/Lords possible for addition:

    There is a problem here though. Basically all major characters have been covered, so we're gonna have to start looking into minor ones to fill these potential spots. Note here that its probably pretty unlikely to get any new major content for the VC, but lets theorize. Among named pirates, we find names such as Micah the Bloodied, Vangheist, Valbrand Fireblade and Nanosh. Again here, Im mentioning them in order of increasing likelyhood, which means that Micah and Vangheist probably won't make it in. One of them is a one-armed Norscan slaver and the other is a tale of a failed quest for immortality, resulting in ghosthood. Not much lore or possible content for them. Lets move on to the more likely characters.

    Valbrand Fireblade



    Location: near Norsca

    New Units: Norscan Reavers, Whalers & Slavers + Norscan Pirate Lord

    Describtion:

    Well since Aranessa ended up in the VC roster, might as well throw in a full-blood Norscan as well. Valbrand Fireblade is a jarl leading a fleet of fire-breathing dragonships (would have been cool if we ACTUALLY had fleet battles), hailing from the Graeling Norscans. Dedicated to the Khornate Daemon Prince Surthrond, they spend their time raiding the coasts of Kislev, the Empire and even Naggaroth. As for a homebase, it is rumored that Valbrand sacrifices his captives to a giant pyramid of flaming skulls in the Graeling tundra. For this devotion, Surthrond has granted him a flaming sword. He could probably be given a 1-settlement island province somewhere off Norsca to avoid too much vampiric corruption. His faction though should spread Chaos, just like Morathi does for the Dark Elves (just like Aranessa should spread untainted as well). The ultimate objective for Valbrand could be to summon Surthrond as a hero, described as hafl-giant, half-dragon.

    Nanosh



    Location: possibly near Naggaroth

    New Units: Strigoi Pirate Lord, Strigoi & Ghoul pirates of various kinds

    Describtion:

    Nanosh is a Strigoi Vampire, Captain of the Unternehmung . A ship crewed entirely by Ghoul pirates, having taken it over from previous Captain Schluter. Together, they sail across the seas of blood wrecking coastal towns, looking for booty and... meat for later meals. With Nanosh though its hard to find an appropriate homefortress for him to operate out from. So I would say its just better, with perhaps some modifications to the ship mechanics, making them self-sufficient enough to operate without a base and most importantly, granting ship mechanics to minor lords as well. Just plop him down anywhere and see what happens.


  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    Hypothetical Southern Realms

    As we near the completion of our walkthrough of the races of Warhammer, I think its only fair to cover those that haven't had any representation in WH2 so far. The most glaring example as of this moment are the Southern Realms of Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes. This... subrace of men don't have any playable lords and tbh, is pretty unlikely that they´re ever gonna get any, but still, skipping over these basically means CA will skip most of the Dogs of War content. Which basically means that most of the WH-community would riot. So to prevent that, unlocking a few Southern Lords will most likely solve the issue.

    However, in order to do this, we're gonna need to put aside the unwritten rule of WH2 of no LLs in direct border with eachother. Because lets face it, if that was in effect, all of Estalia, Tilea and the Border Princes would be invalidated immediately by the prescence of Belegar, The Fay, Ikit Claw and Thorgrim. And also, a semi-major redesign of these regions are necessary to make them viable startpositions. More settlements in Tilea, but especially in Estalia and the Border Princes, who definetly have room to spare, will be needed. Lets go through these, region by region, to see what could added in.

    Estalia



    Possible Lords: Lupio Sunscryer of Margritta

    New Units: Order of the Righteous Spear and other Estalian themed units

    Describtion:
    As of this moment, Estalia is basically just an empty placeholder and there's plenty of room to expand upon its geography. First of all, split the penninsula in northern and southern provinces and give the north to a new AI faction called Bilbali. Other settlements could include Vizeaya in the east and maybe Diamenterra in the south.

    As for the southern, playable Margritta, new settlements should include Belmoz in the west and Zaraguz in the northeast. I will cover what happens to Tobaro in the Tilean section. Anyway, this will obviously require some modifications to Khazrak's campaign start, in line with what I proposed in the Beastmen chapter. The objective for LL Lupio Sunscryer will be to unify Estalia and then push east into Tobaro and onwards to Skavenblight, aka Old Tylos.

    Tilea


    Playable Factions: Miragliano (Borgio the Besieger) and Pavona (Lucrezzia Belladona) OR Remas (Asarnil the Dragonlord)

    New Units: As many local Dogs of War regiments as CA can manage

    Describtion:
    Tilea is also a placeholder as of WH2. Its a bit more cramped, but still has potential if handled correctly. What's needed here is also a split of north and south in terms of provinces, each one with a playable faction. In the north, not making Miragliano playable under Borgio the Besieger would be to shoot yourself in the foot in terms of DOW content. Toscania can be added as a minor settlement in the north and Trantio (sorry Marco Colombo) in the south. Trantio could be made into an AI minor faction. Tobaro in the west will be given an AI faction, either as a 1-settlement province or with the addition of Aquilas in the south, thereby functioning as cannonfodder for Ikit Claw.

    As for the south, Luccini can say goodbye to its chances with Aranessa Saltspite just a hop away. Maybe an ai faction with the addition of Monte Castello in the east (3 provinces then). Instead, the southern lord spot is contested between Asarnil the Dragonlord, champion of Remas and Lucrezzia Belladona, the poisonous ruleress of Pavona. Whichever wins out will be added along with Verezzo. All these additions will also serve to enhance Aranessa's ME campaign with more entrenched enemies to fight early on.

    Border Princes:


    Playable Factions: Pick one for yourself

    New Untis: Border Prince appropriate units

    Describtion:

    In-game, the Border Princes are almost large enough to encompass all the settlements shown on this map. Lets go south to north.
    1. Argalis, Vardanos and Lakoras can all be added in safely and be placed under a Bretonnian themed Vardanos faction, led by Duke Guillame the Conqueror.
    2. The region around Achaes and Arnalos can be put under Achaes and its ruler Alesandr the Great (obvious reference). Myrmidens too or otherwise Tilean themed one-settlement province
    3. Khypris is up next, with the region around current settlement Matorca (should be spelled Matorea). Probably Khypris and Mortensholm. Both Khypris and Achaes would need to be Tilean cultured, since they're human, but not imperial. (note that this river should be pushed a bit west in-game to be accurate).
    4. The next principality should be Brovska (which is where Akendorf is in-game), another Bretonnian one. Ruled by Duke Beauchamp, it should extend from Brovska down to Somjek, next to Barak Varr.
    5. The last principality would be Akendorf (needs to be moved northeast close to Karaz-a-Karak), which under Lord Durant would rule the region around the Skull River, taking away in-game Varenka Hills from Barak Varr (which becomes a 1-settlement province probably) and remaking it into Zenares.

    5 border princes instead of 1 giant lifeless confederacy. Note here that I have not mentioned either Lietpold the Black or Gashnag not because they're not major, but because I can't locate their specific realms. They are pretty much guaranteed as lords for the Border Princes should they ever come, but I didn't want to place them without knowing where they actually rule.




  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Next Topic:

    Vampire Counts of WH3

    A race that has been with us from the start and has been given a lot of attention, will now have ours. The Vampire Counts currently have 3 factions and 5 Lords to choose from, which are:

    Manfred von Carstein and Helman Ghorst in Castle Drakenhof
    Vlad and Isabella von Carstein in southwestern Sylvania
    Heinrich Kemmler and the Barrow Legion in the Grey Mountains

    What we see here are 4 choices in Sylvania itself and only 1 outside of it. Assuming for the moment that the double Lord-factions only Count as 1 spot in their roster, this means that the Vampires could recieve an additional 3 start positions in the future. Whether 1 of them comes in a future DLC for WH2 or if it comes all with WH3 can be debated, but I choose to believe that the Vampires won't recieve anything more from WH2. The reason is simple: There are no good materials for Vampire content in the New World other than the pirates. So lets talk about instead what the Vampires can bring come WH3.

    Factions/Units/Lords possible for addition:
    There are a few minor Vampire factions on the map as of this moment in WH2. Straight out, Im not gonna mention Mousillon here because I already talked about it in the Bretonnia section. So, that leaves us with Templehof, the Silver Host, the Necrarch Brotherhood and Strygos. In addition, important characters to mention are Konrad von Carstein, the Red Duke, Abhorash and Neferata. Lets break down these between unlikely and likely to come.

    The Unlikely: Konrad von Carstein, the Red Duke/Templehof, the Silver Host and the Necrarch Brotherhood
    In the end, it boils down to priorities and starting locations. Konrad von Carstein is a mad warlord in Sylvania and that is already crowded enough. Templehof... I mean come on, its cannon fodder for Manfred and Vlad/Isabella. In case of an overhaul of Mousillon, the Red Duke might get moved down to Aquitaine instead, but I can't really see him getting playable literally in the same province as Alberic. And even if he remains in Mousillon, he's surrounded by Louen and Alberic. The Silver Host is basically just cannon fodder for Queen Khalida. The Necrarch Brotherhood is the most likely of these factions, but only if CA really wants to bring in W'soran in an official capacity. However, with Settra and Tiktaq'to pretty close by (and if Numas is coming for the Tomb Kings), I would say that W'soran and the Necrarchs are gonna get sacrificed for the sake of start positions. Besides, W'soran overall has a minor role in the grand scheme of the lore overall.

    The Likely: Abhorash, Strygos and Neferata
    All 3 of these are to some extent expected to make an appearance in WH3. They have very strong lore reasons to be included in the last part of the trilogy, so lets go through them.

    Abhorash



    New Units: Blood Dragon Infantry, Knights of Red Death (ROR), Living Infantry(?) + Blood Knight Hero(?)

    Location: Somewhere in World's Edge Mountains or the Mountains of Mourn


    Describtion:
    Abhorash is almost a contradiction in terms. A Vampire that refuses to prey on innocent living. Back in the beginnings of Nehekhara, he was a Guard Captain for Neferata herself. She seduced him into becoming a vampire and unable to resist the urge for blood, Abhorash slaughtered some of her servants. Having been an honourable man in life, he was deeply ashamed and from then on, he would only prey upon criminals and his actual enemies. He fought with the Vampires in Nehekhara, but after their failure, he exiled himself into the World's Edge Mountains, where he only fed upon the greatest fighters he defeated. Eventually, he came upon a Dragon and he slew it after a battle of an entire night. He drank its blood... and it freed him from Neferata's curse. Eventually, he happened across Bretonnian founder Giles le Breton, whom he fought, but eventually swore alliegance to.

    I think its pretty clear what Abhorash and the Blood Knights should be in WH3. A highly aggressive Vampire faction, but one that's bad at spreading Vampiric corruption. Abhorash himself could probably have a mechanic that he takes slight attrition until he defeats an enemy general, which restores his health, a pretty simple way to simulate his ethics. If we really wanna go advanced here, his ultimate campaign goal could be a monster battle with a massive dragon. After that, his faction shifts culture, if that's possible, into a Bretonnian faction, still simulating Abhorash's honour and lore connection to Giles le Breton. This could be one of the most advanced faction WH3 will ever create.

    Strygos


    Faction Leader: Ushoran or Vorag Bloodytooth

    New Units: Living Strigany Soldiers and more Ghoul variants

    Describtion:

    Like Abhorash, Strygos is a contradiction in vampire terms. Ushoran, Vorag and others have been tolerant over mortals, only feeding upon criminals who deserve it. They protect each other, like Tutankhanut protects his living population. Strigos was destroyed by Neferata and the Strigoi vampires thereby don't get along with their other vampire cousins. Strygos was a human empire that worshipped vampires as gods, so I think its pretty clear what type of faction should come out of the Fortress of Vorag in the southern Dark Lands. A mix of living units, with a distinct Strigany feeling and vampires with a special focus on Ghouls. Strygos done properly will be another hybrid faction, hopefully with buildings that will spread untainted as well as vampiric.

    Neferata


    Location: Silver Pinnacle

    New Units: Morghast, Abyssal Terror, Spirit Host, Lahmian Vampire infantry (?)

    Describtion:

    This is the obligatory one, the Queen of Vampires. Your campaign objective is simple. Conquer your way down the Mountains to Nagashizzar, which should be under the rule of a sentinel faction like with the Sentinels guarding Nagash's Black Pyramid. Once in your possesion, go on a quest for whatever items you need to summon mighty NAGASH! ARISE LORD VOLDEMORT OF UNDEATH, ARISE MY LEGION! That's the reason I didn't mention Nagash in the beginning. Having him as a seperate faction kinda diminishes his importance tbh, you gotta work for him. Other than that, Neferata will be a regular vampire faction with new units, basic vampire stuff. Maybe some advanced infiltration mechanics, since she's the head of the Lahmians.


  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,802Registered Users
    One outside possibility is Walach Harkon in the Blood Keep. I say it as an outside possibility because if I remember correctly it's situated in one of the passes of the Grey Mountains, and CA is probably not going to be introducing new LLs within Game 1's territory unless they also have a start position within the newest map.

    Mind you, given that fluffwise Abhorash killed his dragon a long time ago, Walach in exile somewhere other than the Blood Keep could work for a game 3 (or 2, but I don't think that's going to happen) non-combined map, with his objective being to repeat Abhorash's feat and free himself from needing to drink blood from mortals. Could even implement the Red Duke into the Game 3 map in this fashion, although it might have to be FLC (essentially, a Blood Dragon Erranty War to hunt down a dragon!) given that the Red Duke is already available for multiplayer, although it could be worked as the DLC being for the campaign mechanics.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Posts: 27Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    One outside possibility is Walach Harkon in the Blood Keep. I say it as an outside possibility because if I remember correctly it's situated in one of the passes of the Grey Mountains, and CA is probably not going to be introducing new LLs within Game 1's territory unless they also have a start position within the newest map.

    Mind you, given that fluffwise Abhorash killed his dragon a long time ago, Walach in exile somewhere other than the Blood Keep could work for a game 3 (or 2, but I don't think that's going to happen) non-combined map, with his objective being to repeat Abhorash's feat and free himself from needing to drink blood from mortals. Could even implement the Red Duke into the Game 3 map in this fashion, although it might have to be FLC (essentially, a Blood Dragon Erranty War to hunt down a dragon!) given that the Red Duke is already available for multiplayer, although it could be worked as the DLC being for the campaign mechanics.

    Yeah the Blood Keep is in the Grey mountains close to Reikland and Wissenland, so not the best position with Skarsnik, Karl Franz, Gelt and Belegar all nearby
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