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The AI needs to Respect your Area of Influence

SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
edited September 29 in General Discussion
In every Total War game your army has a red sphere of influence around them that traps other armies if they stay within it on turns end, acts as an outline for your ambush area and so forth.

It used to be, that you could not walk through this sphere without attacking the army (in Shogun 2 you were able to block mountain passes or other choke points with your armies and their red spheres).

It's so infuriating in Warhammer 2 that enemy armies can just walk past you like you're not even there (especially when you set up an ambush and it fails and then they go right by you to attack your settlement or something).

The worst example of this is when you raise a settlement and another faction (sometimes the same faction) walks right by you and re-colonises it. Not sure if its the same now but it used to be that the AI doesn't take attrition for settling a province so they get it back for free.

Warhammer 2 is riddled with little issues that we rarely discuss, because they aren't as glaring or game-breaking as something like horde factions and I think this is one of them.

is this something you experience / want back as well? let me know.
Post edited by SeanJeanquoi on

Comments

  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Posts: 612Registered Users
    RESPECT MY AUTHORITY!!!

    Joke aside ye it does feel like the armies can waltz through enemy territories and next to armies a tad too easily.
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  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Posts: 818Registered Users
    That was due to the S2 map having natural chokepoints and roads that were pretty much railroaded the AI's movements. WH has a lot of open terrain and the AI runs around without much logic, so they can sometimes use unorthodox paths and not fall in an expected ambush.
    But I do agree that a failed ambush should still force a fight.
    Don't get me started on Phoenix gates being massive jokes that can be bypassed by laying siege.
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users

    That was due to the S2 map having natural chokepoints and roads that were pretty much railroaded the AI's movements. WH has a lot of open terrain and the AI runs around without much logic, so they can sometimes use unorthodox paths and not fall in an expected ambush.
    But I do agree that a failed ambush should still force a fight.
    Don't get me started on Phoenix gates being massive jokes that can be bypassed by laying siege.

    Wait, how can you bypass them by laying siege?
  • innerpinnerp Junior Member Posts: 301Registered Users

    That was due to the S2 map having natural chokepoints and roads that were pretty much railroaded the AI's movements. WH has a lot of open terrain and the AI runs around without much logic, so they can sometimes use unorthodox paths and not fall in an expected ambush.
    But I do agree that a failed ambush should still force a fight.
    Don't get me started on Phoenix gates being massive jokes that can be bypassed by laying siege.

    Wait, how can you bypass them by laying siege?
    lay siege with one army, walk through with the other.
  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,984Registered Users

    That was due to the S2 map having natural chokepoints and roads that were pretty much railroaded the AI's movements. WH has a lot of open terrain and the AI runs around without much logic, so they can sometimes use unorthodox paths and not fall in an expected ambush.
    But I do agree that a failed ambush should still force a fight.
    Don't get me started on Phoenix gates being massive jokes that can be bypassed by laying siege.

    Wait, how can you bypass them by laying siege?
    If you lay siege to a settlement its zone of control is removed while besieged. I think you can besiege Empire forts and just walk past them, even.
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  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,788Registered Users
    The trick with ambushes is that you have to leave your army right on the edge of where the settlement is in its reinforcement range.

    Enemy army does not know your army is nearby and walks thru the red zone of control until right next to the ambushing army- the ambush fails- now your settlement is within the enemy armies zone of control and they are trapped within the zones of control forced to either attack your army or the settlement.

    Basically, because it is turn-based game and ambushes are based on the actual tile your army is on- not the wider zone of control (since multiple terrain types can be within a zone of control the ambush chance relies on the exact tile your army is sitting on).

    Similarily once a siege starts the settlement/gate/fortress under sieges has its zone of control reduced to the single tile it sits on. This is a bit broken when armies can march past chokepoints and is a bit annoying because there really are very few chokepoints in Warhammer campaign maps, few river crossing, a couple mountains passes, some landing beaches-...
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  • CrajohCrajoh Member Posts: 1,527Registered Users
    I don’t really have an issue with them marching past a castle under siege because after all the occupants are trapped inside.

    I don’t think they should be able to bypass an army though just because they/I have clicked on an adjacent city or weaker army to attack. The first zone of control an army passes into should either initiate or at least have the option to initiate battle.

    I would also love the option to initiate battle, request payment etc on non-allied but not necessarily enemy armies that pass through key choke points. Of course this would be another action required during end turns. But who knows one day TW will allow you to do kingdom admin during end turns in which case no issue
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  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,351Registered Users
    Yes please! No more waltzing through ambushes. No more retreating foes walking right past your reinforcing army. No more retreating to the other side of a river or mountain range either for that matter.

    I wish everyone would respect the sphere of influence in general. I'm tired of telling them "This action does not have my consent!" It's 2019 for heaven's sake! Respect our spheres people!
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,060Registered Users
    It's particularly annoying when dealing with races like Beastmen or Skaven who can do offensive ambushes. I've had a skaven stack waltz past several stacks in order to ambush the weakest at the back.
  • RifugioRifugio Member Posts: 1,026Registered Users
    Crajoh said:

    I don’t really have an issue with them marching past a castle under siege because after all the occupants are trapped inside...."

    To pick up on one of one of your points @Crajoh. I agree for most settlements; However Elven Gates and Empire fortesses (if the battle maps are to be believed), are physically blocking access to the regions beyond. There should be no marching past, unless enemy armies are using the underway, until they fall.
  • RifugioRifugio Member Posts: 1,026Registered Users
    Draxynnic said:

    It's particularly annoying when dealing with races like Beastmen or Skaven who can do offensive ambushes. I've had a skaven stack waltz past several stacks in order to ambush the weakest at the back.

    Offensive ambushes are particulalry powerful for Skaven, particularly galling when you have two armies one waiting in counter ambush and the Skaven detect it, and then pick off the other army.

    Beastmen are far more vulnerable not having settlements to fall back on. So loss of an army can be game over for them.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 21,207Registered Users
    It removes a large part of strategy since it being this way means settlement camping is the best way to deal with invading armies.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,060Registered Users

    It removes a large part of strategy since it being this way means settlement camping is the best way to deal with invading armies.

    Especially ironic since the tutorial tells you to use your zone of influence to block enemies from advancing on your capital.
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Posts: 1,923Registered Users
    The problem arises only when the army in question is issued an 'Attack' order. This type of movement ignores circle of influence (for one reason or another).
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,060Registered Users
    Makes sense. It's largely how it works with the player as well - otherwise having two armies close to one another would mean you couldn't attack either.

    Possibly, though, it needs to be tweaked so that you can only ignore a zone of control if you're attacking something that is within the zone you're passing through.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Posts: 2,494Registered Users
    edited September 29
    I once ran into an issue in an Ikit Claw ME campaign where I attacked Orion's much-weaker army only for him to escape by walking straight though my zone of control.

    Orion was moving toward Karak Izor, and if you know your geography or have played a Belegar campaign, you know that Karak Izor is a dead end - there's only one narrow road to and from it.
    I attacked Orion's much-weaker army with Ikit Claw's army thinking I had him trapped between my army and the garrison at Karak Izor. But Orion somehow managed to retreat by moving though my zone of control, walking all the way around the mountain and ending up on the other side of Karak Izor; well beyond my movement range and far beyond what any army should be able to move under any circumstances.

    Now that instance is more of an issue with how stupid the retreat mechanic can be at times, but it also shows that zone of control can be useless to stop enemy forces from retreating.
  • oliverpmasonoliverpmason Posts: 891Registered Users
    As Gelt, with no mods Crooked Moon run past my Fort. Not underway but marching. No mods, don't know why.
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 1,047Registered Users
    edited September 29
    Good point! Post this is Feedback/Suggestions or Warhammer 2 Support/Bugs/Fixes
  • RifugioRifugio Member Posts: 1,026Registered Users
    @oliverpmason Those Gobboz' is sneaky, but not that sneaky...
  • SeanJeanquoiSeanJeanquoi Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Crossil said:

    That was due to the S2 map having natural chokepoints and roads that were pretty much railroaded the AI's movements. WH has a lot of open terrain and the AI runs around without much logic, so they can sometimes use unorthodox paths and not fall in an expected ambush.
    But I do agree that a failed ambush should still force a fight.
    Don't get me started on Phoenix gates being massive jokes that can be bypassed by laying siege.

    Wait, how can you bypass them by laying siege?
    If you lay siege to a settlement its zone of control is removed while besieged. I think you can besiege Empire forts and just walk past them, even.
    WTF really? that's so bad, I never knew that.
  • CrajohCrajoh Member Posts: 1,527Registered Users
    Rifugio said:

    Crajoh said:

    I don’t really have an issue with them marching past a castle under siege because after all the occupants are trapped inside...."

    To pick up on one of one of your points @Crajoh. I agree for most settlements; However Elven Gates and Empire fortesses (if the battle maps are to be believed), are physically blocking access to the regions beyond. There should be no marching past, unless enemy armies are using the underway, until they fall.
    True, if it is physically blocking then different story. Cheers.


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  • Mech_4Mech_4 Posts: 204Registered Users

    I once ran into an issue in an Ikit Claw ME campaign where I attacked Orion's much-weaker army only for him to escape by walking straight though my zone of control.

    Orion was moving toward Karak Izor, and if you know your geography or have played a Belegar campaign, you know that Karak Izor is a dead end - there's only one narrow road to and from it.
    I attacked Orion's much-weaker army with Ikit Claw's army thinking I had him trapped between my army and the garrison at Karak Izor. But Orion somehow managed to retreat by moving though my zone of control, walking all the way around the mountain and ending up on the other side of Karak Izor; well beyond my movement range and far beyond what any army should be able to move under any circumstances.

    Now that instance is more of an issue with how stupid the retreat mechanic can be at times, but it also shows that zone of control can be useless to stop enemy forces from retreating.

    I have had things like this happen. Mostly around rivers when the enemy army's back is to the river. I move to attack them, they retreat and the retreat point for the army is set across the river so the enemy army walks around the river, over a bridge and back again to the spot further than they should be able to move.
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