Why is Nakai's income so bad?

Laytenb2122

I've been playing as Nakai on Vortex and my income is pure garbage. Even though my vassal owns something like 15-20 settlements, I've only been getting 3-4K a turn. Hopefully there will be a fix soon because Nakai is really fun and fixing this issue would make him even better.

Alexronchetti

Hmm you see, his income is not bad at all, its just that his campaign is not about being a tax collector like most factions.

Thats usually the case with horde gameplay, you start slow and build up your horde, once it is strong enough you just go hammer down against your foes to accumulate that sweet sweet gold/favour/whatever currency.

Dont worry about running your armies on a deficit because that is horde life, its how its suppose to be, soon enough in campaign you will be able to make more money than you can spent anyway so it ceases to be a problem at all.

Lord_Distamorfin#1941

It's a symptom of the poor Lizardmen economy in general. It's difficult to have more than one full army without owning at least 2-3 full provinces. Stack Horde economy on top of that and it gets pretty bad. As Nakai, just shake down your vassal for money every turn and that should help.

Seldkam

What a lot of people don't use is the vassal. They don't do anything except build economy, so if you give them some time, they can gift you massive sums of money...

Mr_Finley7#4571

I regularly asked my vassals and military allies for massive amounts of money and that has kept me in the black, between Lothern, Hexoatl and your vassal you can get 10k every five turns

SaurianDruid#4682

Hordes have terrible economy by design. You're supposed to be constantly crushing enemies and taking new territories to maintain your armies. The income from the vassal is just to give you some breathing room.

Forista#7907

I'm fine with the Horde bad income if I don't have to protect any territory... but with the Vassal System I have to. And while I try to protect a lot of provinces with a single stack, I catch the trait "Insane" and it can't be erased on Nakai. After 130 turns I haven't touched Nakai again and it bothers me a lot because I love it, I'm waiting for it to be fixed.

Alexronchetti

Forista said:

I'm fine with the Horde bad income if I don't have to protect any territory... but with the Vassal System I have to. And while I try to protect a lot of provinces with a single stack, I catch the trait "Insane" and it can't be erased on Nakai. After 130 turns I haven't touched Nakai again and it bothers me a lot because I love it, I'm waiting for it to be fixed.

You dont really need to defend your vassal at all, only if you want to, they are just placeholders for ruins and you should not base your economy on them. Just keep bashing your enemies, chances are you can take their provinces way faster than they can take from your vassal. If you really want to help them, i suppose you can spent favour to use the rite that gives them an army, but frankly, the resource is better spent to buy yourself some nice blessed units to make your horde even stronger.

I'm currently playing a Nakai campaign. Turn 122, i got 50k and a deficit of -1000 per turn. I can just sit around for 50 turns. 50 TURNS!!! Lustria is united by all lizardmen factions and my vassals sprinkled around and im currently sailing towards the southlands to help my boys Tik and Kroq.

The way i see it, there is no need to fix things that are not broken.

Forista#7907

Alexronchetti said:

The way i see it, there is no need to fix things that are not broken.

Nice strategy, but still problems in there;

-The Insane trait still permanent.

-People complain over and over again on the WE Amber system. For me, the Amber system works very well: the WE are broken AF and the Athel Loren income it’s PRETTY huge, you can make stacks with only that. Nakai have the “Amber problem” and at the same time the income is far far worse than WE... also, the auto resolve or the battles are far difficult for different stacks than the WE and the Waywatcher spam.

Sorry, but I think Nakai need some love by now. At least, the Insane trait it’s necessary to be fixed.

Also sorry for my English, thanks.

Alexronchetti

Forista said:

Alexronchetti said:

The way i see it, there is no need to fix things that are not broken.

Nice strategy, but still problems in there;

-The Insane trait still permanent.

-People complain over and over again on the WE Amber system. For me, the Amber system works very well: the WE are broken AF and the Athel Loren income it’s PRETTY huge, you can make stacks with only that. Nakai have the “amber problem” and at the same time the income is far far worse than WE... also, the auto resolve or the battles are far difficult for different stacks than the WE and the Waywatcher spam.

Sorry, but I think Nakai need some love by now. At least, the Insane trait it’s necessary to me fixed.

Also sorry for my English, thanks.

Im with you on this, WE are in a nice spot, Amber mechanic never hampered me from steamrolling the game with them, since they are so good at the field. The roster is also pretty much done except from a few lords and some unit variations, but that is mostly flavour (not against their implementation, of course! Give me more content and take my money!)

I still dont agree with you about Nakai, i actually think his campaign is one of the easiest, but to each their own, i guess...

Captain_Rex#1635

Nakais income is bad huh?

I mean he’s a horde so what’s the point?
I actually never had any problems with money. His units are super strong and even with a 15 unit stack you destroy every skaven fullstack without problems.

I got my second army around turn 80 but actually never really needed it.

His gameplay is different, you just need your vassal with many regions. Then you can use that ability to get 50% more vassal income.
Super easy.

In the end I got like 2k per turn, had 50k in the bank and 2 super elite armies.

Alexronchetti

ArneSo said:

Nakais income is bad huh?

I mean he’s a horde so what’s the point?
I actually never had any problems with money. His units are super strong and even with a 15 unit stack you destroy every skaven fullstack without problems.

I got my second army around turn 80 but actually never really needed it.

His gameplay is different, you just need your vassal with many regions. Then you can use that ability to get 50% more vassal income.
Super easy.

In the end I got like 2k per turn, had 50k in the bank and 2 super elite armies.

Exactly, lizardmen are just so strong against skaven or empire troops, you can easily rout or even destroy 2 enemy stacks with your 1 horde. So far i've had no reason to build a second stack yet.

endurstonehelm#6102

Around turn 80 on normal, I have 4 armies with full stacks, and two armies with just a lord. My vassal has 40+ settlements, and gives me 9k or so every 5 turns.

Helhound#7332

Yea Nakai as a horde being able to generate income outside of battle at all is a considerable change of pace compared to other Hordes. And with that spammable tax bump it can be quite a bit of money.

Furthermore, he can field an entire stack of Sacred Kroxigors for almost free. And early on too. A full stack of Sacred Kroxigors led by Nakai can and will blow through absolutely everything you will fight in the campaign with almost no resistance. You'll have beaten Nakai's campaign by turn 50.

Nakai's problem is not that he's too weak. It's that the added Vassal mechanics do nothing to change the fact he's not much fun to play. A steam roll from start to finish, with an annoyingly useless vassal system tacked on. His temple system is a great step in the right direction though. And tieing recruitment to one major horde is just streamlining the right way to play all hordes in the game anyway, so that's my personal favorite change.

Alexronchetti

Fear_The_Wolf said:

Yea Nakai as a horde being able to generate income outside of battle at all is a considerable change of pace compared to other Hordes. And with that spammable tax bump it can be quite a bit of money.

Furthermore, he can field an entire stack of Sacred Kroxigors for almost free. And early on too. A full stack of Sacred Kroxigors led by Nakai can and will blow through absolutely everything you will fight in the campaign with almost no resistance. You'll have beaten Nakai's campaign by turn 50.

Nakai's problem is not that he's too weak. It's that the added Vassal mechanics do nothing to change the fact he's not much fun to play. A steam roll from start to finish, with an annoyingly useless vassal system tacked on. His temple system is a great step in the right direction though. And tieing recruitment to one major horde is just streamlining the right way to play all hordes in the game anyway, so that's my personal favorite change.

Well, at least there is a vassal holding the settlement, otherwise his campaign would be similar to WoC, where every faction is a little bit too happy about colonisation. If WoC had a vassal system like Nakai, i would sacrifice 1000 sigmarites to the chaos gods. But alas, it is what it is, at least for now.

Helhound#7332

Alexronchetti said:

Fear_The_Wolf said:

Yea Nakai as a horde being able to generate income outside of battle at all is a considerable change of pace compared to other Hordes. And with that spammable tax bump it can be quite a bit of money.

Furthermore, he can field an entire stack of Sacred Kroxigors for almost free. And early on too. A full stack of Sacred Kroxigors led by Nakai can and will blow through absolutely everything you will fight in the campaign with almost no resistance. You'll have beaten Nakai's campaign by turn 50.

Nakai's problem is not that he's too weak. It's that the added Vassal mechanics do nothing to change the fact he's not much fun to play. A steam roll from start to finish, with an annoyingly useless vassal system tacked on. His temple system is a great step in the right direction though. And tieing recruitment to one major horde is just streamlining the right way to play all hordes in the game anyway, so that's my personal favorite change.

Well, at least there is a vassal holding the settlement, otherwise his campaign would be similar to WoC, where every faction is a little bit too happy about colonisation. If WoC had a vassal system like Nakai, i would sacrifice 1000 sigmarites to the chaos gods. But alas, it is what it is, at least for now.

**** the Vassal system for WoC, install a scorched earth principle to the process. Establishment of shrines to Chaos make it cost an outright excessive amount to recolonize that increases with the presence of Chaos corruption. That way the only feasible way to recolonize would be to lower the Chaos corruption present and give the razed settlement time to recover.

Yes, I get this would make razed settlements player side more difficult to manage. No, I don't consider this a bad thing.

Alexronchetti

Fear_The_Wolf said:

Alexronchetti said:

Fear_The_Wolf said:

Yea Nakai as a horde being able to generate income outside of battle at all is a considerable change of pace compared to other Hordes. And with that spammable tax bump it can be quite a bit of money.

Furthermore, he can field an entire stack of Sacred Kroxigors for almost free. And early on too. A full stack of Sacred Kroxigors led by Nakai can and will blow through absolutely everything you will fight in the campaign with almost no resistance. You'll have beaten Nakai's campaign by turn 50.

Nakai's problem is not that he's too weak. It's that the added Vassal mechanics do nothing to change the fact he's not much fun to play. A steam roll from start to finish, with an annoyingly useless vassal system tacked on. His temple system is a great step in the right direction though. And tieing recruitment to one major horde is just streamlining the right way to play all hordes in the game anyway, so that's my personal favorite change.

Well, at least there is a vassal holding the settlement, otherwise his campaign would be similar to WoC, where every faction is a little bit too happy about colonisation. If WoC had a vassal system like Nakai, i would sacrifice 1000 sigmarites to the chaos gods. But alas, it is what it is, at least for now.

**** the Vassal system for WoC, install a scorched earth principle to the process. Establishment of shrines to Chaos make it cost an outright excessive amount to recolonize that increases with the presence of Chaos corruption. That way the only feasible way to recolonize would be to lower the Chaos corruption present and give the razed settlement time to recover.

Yes, I get this would make razed settlements player side more difficult to manage. No, I don't consider this a bad thing.

Calm down my friend, i agree with you, the WoC needs something to address this issue. All i meant was, they need something to help them with the recolonizing spree of other factions and i would be so glad to have it, even if it was a vassal system as Nakai have.

In fact, i really like the idea of chaos corrupting the land and making recolonization of razed settlements harder or costly, even for the player, it can add more challenge to any order factions facing them, as it would become a very pressing matter to defeat chaos as soon as possible, since they could corrupt your land and make it inhabitable for a very long time.

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Helhound#7332

GingerRoeBro said:

Yeah, competitively (head to head) campaign nakai is the literal worst.

By the time he gets a second full stack I've gotten 6......

And all you got to do is manage to beat his army once (which isnt that hard) and you wipe his entire horde out.

Oh I'd argue the opposite. In a Head to Head campaign its always the Horde faction closest to the enemy that has the advantage. Had a dude play Kroq-Gar specifically so that I couldn't just turn one rush his ass. Even then I just set up ambushes to prevent his expansion. I've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

For Nakai, anyone in Lustria in a head to head is food. Full stack of Kroxigors in the first 20 turns, you arent stopping that by then. In ME, yea Nakai is pretty much useless.