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Beastmen - Essential missing lords and buffs

FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Registered Users Posts: 529
Hay guys,

I have read the lore about beastmen lords and what not trying to figure out what could help the beastmen very lack luster leadership while staying true to the lore and tabletop. I found a lot of interesting information to both justify buffs and introduce very needed lords to the beastmen roster. Notably the doombull, the centigor, the wargor would really help mix it up and dont make Morghur the automatic competitive pick. So lets go through it, first you have the name of the lord, the lore that justify his abilities and then a list of potential abilities/spells/items that would make them competitive compared to Morghur I believe.

Disclaimer: Those are merely suggestions and are meant to be taken with a grain of salt. The goal is to give the lords the beastmen rightfully deserve with their meagre 4 choices where only 1 of them is viable. Yes they sound overpowered, but take a look at Morghur!

Khazrak

Lore/tabletop Justification

Khazrak was hands down one of, if not the best monster killer in the game, being able to get up to S10 with each successful wounding attack (before saves) generating a new attack (yes, even the new attacks did this).
  • Give him some Anti-large
Explanation: From what I read there it seems Khazrak should have anti-large as he was one of the best at dealing it. It would certainly help him against certain match-up and he would be able to ride a long centigors and actually be useful.

Taurox the Brass Bull, known also as the Slaughterhorn, the Bloodbeast, or as the The Brazen One


Lore/tabletop Justification
Taurox is an unstoppable force; a roaring, snorting engine of destruction virtually impervious to physical harm. Cast in the form of a grotesquely muscled Doombull, Taurox looms over his followers, a mountain of living brass with curving, bladed horns and a gnashing metal maw that constantly drools with gore.

No more would he tire, no more would he have a moment’s respite from the rage that consumed him.
  • Doombull lord
  • Gorebull speed and animations
  • Anti-infantry/Anti-large
  • Physical resist/Ward saves
  • Perfect vigor
  • Very high armor
Explanation: If the gorebull could be a lord, that would be him. Im not advocating for all these abilities as it would certainly be overpowered but they are all loreful and make for a unique lord. Certainly some of them could make their way in. Either way a gorebull lord would be a viable pick other than Morghur.

Malagor the Dark Omen


Lore/tabletop Justification
Malagor the Dark Omen: The Bray Shaman of all Bray Shaman, this Beastmen is not only a powerful sorcerer and a cunning manipulator he also has a pair of black raven wings that enable him to fly.
  • Let him fly
Explanation: Malagor is too vulnerable. If he was flying and he had sufficient speed to kite slower flying lords who ride dragons for instance he would be much more durable. Plus since the beastmen sky-force is pretty weak kiting and casting would be pretty well balanced skill-wise I believe. Anyways, even then, if we could buy his flight or not just like we buy a horse player would still have the choice to have him on foot or not. Even then, I believe he would be more viable in the air than on the ground.

Gorthor the Beastlord, Gorthor the Cruel

Lore/tabletop Justification
The greatest Beastlord to ever live, he united all the Beastmen of the Middle Mountains, pioneered the use of chariots, brought down two provinces of the Empire and in addition to his fighting skills was a tactical and strategic thinker would sometimes be surrounded by a corona of dark energy, which would protect him or strike out at his foes After a particularly violent kill, Gorthor would sometimes fall into a trance and commune with the Chaos Powers. He gripped his huge spear in both hands...it was to risk dismemberment under sharpened hoof.

Impaler: Impaler is a monstrous spear, with brutal barbs placed on iron rings along its entire length. When pulled free, it rends flesh and gouges bone, mangling its victim beyond recognition.[1b]

Skull of Mugrar: This is the skull of the legendary lord of Minotaurs, Mugrar, and is fastened to Gorthor's chariot. It is enchanted with a powerful spell that curses those who would attack its carrier.[1b]

Cloak of the Beastlord: Along among Beastmen, Gorthor does not fear the curse on slaying a Shaman, for he knows that his favour amongst the gods is greater even than theirs. He made the Cloak of the Beastlord from the hides of those Shamans he killed.
  • Footlord
  • Chariot
  • Huge spear = Huge anti-large bonus
  • Dark energy shield
  • Dark energy nuking ability (magic missile/Bombardment)
  • Health Draining ability (barbs/sharpened hoofs)
Explanation: Some kind of mortis engine footlord/chariot with one or two spells à la Count Noctilus's wraith storm and with massive anti-large. Yeah that would certainly challenge Morghur.

Ghorros Warhoof


Lore/tabletop Justification
Ghorros Warhoof, the Sire of a Thousand Young, is a gnarled, ancient Centigor who is forever fighting, rutting or getting drunk.

Wargear

Mansmasher: In battle Ghorros wields a great spiked club, every bit as blunt and unstable as its owner. Though crude, the Mansmasher bears the blessings of dozens of Bray-Shamans, and it has been soaked in the blood of ancient dynasties.

Skull of the Unicorn Lord: Atop his scalp Ghorros wears the broken skull of Arsil, the Prince of Unicorns, who had an unfortunate encounter with Ghorros in a moonlit glade centuries ago. It still harbours some of the protective magic of its former owner.
  • Centigor lord
  • Perfect vigor
  • Armor piercing
  • Anti-infantry
  • High magical resist
  • Drunken stance ward save
Explanation: Finally a lord that could ride with centigors, that in itself would make it a decent pick. We all know how every lords need to be a pony, well we beastmen need that too.

Molokh Slugtongue, also known as the Famine-Fiend, the Barren One, and Lord of the Black Harvest

Lore/tabletop Justification
Slugtongue is the cold talon of winter incarnate, and famine follows in his wake Slugtongue turns the most fecund and fertile valleys into barren and freezing wastes crawling with poisonous vermin. Worse still, he is surrounded by an aura of numbing cold Ravenous living hurricanes of skull-headed locusts whip and tear across the crop-fields, reducing them to shocking ruin in seconds. Rivers of virgin meltwater turn to bile at the sound of his gurgling, phlegm-choked laughter. With a single word, the skies fill with writhing clouds of transparent maggot-things that rain down into freshwater lakes like a living hail. Storehouses full of golden corn and sheaves of barley are opened to reveal nothing more than rotting black sludge, and barrels of fine ale yield nothing more than a thick gruel of infected spittle.

A master of Wild Magic and Shyish, Slugtongue's very presence causes his foes to begin to wither away from his supernatural blight.
  • Footlord
  • Caster lord
  • Frostbite/poison attacks
  • Chilling aura
  • Fear
  • Terror
  • Wild + Death lore mix
Explanation: Bestial surge, Spirit leech, viletide, purple sun, bray scream, doom and darkness, devolve, fate of bjuna.... Enough said!

Moonclaw, also known as the Son of Morrslieb, the Lunatic Prince, and the Child of the Gravid Orb.

Lore/tabletop Justification
His glowing, goat-slit eyes seem to see into another realm, and his erratic gestures leave doppelganger traces in the air. Wherever the Beastmen witness the lambent green-black flames that lick around Moonclaw they fall to their knees in worship. summons the strange two-headed beast, Umbralok, that serves as his steed, and rides at the head of a great army. Few can tolerate the wave of madness that precedes. Moonclaw on these most eldritch of nights, let alone stand resolute when jagged shards of lunar rock hurtle out of the skies to annihilate any who earn Moonclaw's displeasure Though relatively weak in magic, Moonclaw is capable of wielding both Wild Magic and Ulgu(Shadow). He can unleash waves of insanity at his leisure, though he, already insane, is unaffected, as is his mount.
  • Footlord
  • Mount: Umbralok
  • Fear
  • Unique bombardment
  • Wild magic + Shadow magic
  • High Magic resist
Explanation: Probably the weakess of them all, but still, a caster that could quickly stroll around on his mount with wild+shadow could be useful.

Wargors


Lore/tabletop Justification

he "trusted" (as far as Beastman loyalty goes) lieutenants of Beastlord, Wargors are pretty kickass leaders and fighters themselves. Often seen carrying battle standards or leading Bestigor herds, or both. More than just expert fighters, Wargors are ruthless and savage leaders. Rare is the beastman mighty enough to command both loyalty and obedience among his unruly herd.
  • Encourage
  • Frenzy
  • Immune to psychology banner aura
  • Anti-infantry
Explanation: We need that guy against vampires. Its an uphill battle, we need something akin to the grail-reliquae to get a fighting change. Otherwise beastmen troops dont last at all.


Source: https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Beastmen

Comments

  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,455
    I like all the ideas TBH, except giving khazrak AL. More ws would probably make more sense.

    Also anything that makes morghur less important is good. There's nothing I hate more than beastmen using him as a crutch. Not even spirit leech or fireball spam annoyed me more...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 11,383
    Green0 said:

    these proposals would make BM instantly tier 0 and super broken in both QB and tournaments.

    They wouldn't because those are just suggesting to make some lords OP not whole factions, nevertheless some of those suggestions would make some lords too good.
  • Meteor18Meteor18 Registered Users Posts: 159
    Perfect vigor on a fast AP Centigor lord will be problematic. Rather I'd like Ghorros to regain a percentage of vigor (and leadership) every time he kills an enemy. This he'll be fresh as long as he has lowly spearmen to kill, but he won't go toe to toe with Kholeks and Dragons in the late game.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 9,480
    They r the same as chaos, dont bother till they get a specific dlc of their own or whatever updated target at jabby, doombull, ghorgon and a complete rework of beastman

    They r just way outdated now, frikking ungor raiders still need +1 ap on their missile
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  • HolySaintKnightHolySaintKnight Registered Users Posts: 4,448
    Good suggestions. Sure I approve their implementation. This is how we do it guys, we see something good we apply it until something better comes so we apply the better.
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 3,180
    Meteor18 said:

    Perfect vigor on a fast AP Centigor lord will be problematic. Rather I'd like Ghorros to regain a percentage of vigor (and leadership) every time he kills an enemy. This he'll be fresh as long as he has lowly spearmen to kill, but he won't go toe to toe with Kholeks and Dragons in the late game.

    Hmm that would fit rowdy better
    Like every model kill it gains 3 vigour...

    Might be a nerf but i feel it fits better than what we have
    They are happy and energized by killing things, especially weaker things and winning
    They arent discplined to want to fight things stronger foes
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,444
    Beastmen are very fun to play they’re one of my favorite factions. They would be a lot more fun to play if I didn’t feel like I have to bring morghur to have a competitive build.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,389
    Beastmen overall power is currently good. However their lords are always mediocre (Except Morghur).
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • BordigaBordiga Registered Users Posts: 326
    Beastmen need their missing units and probbaly also some of the chaos lores of magic too.

    A new legandary lord would be helpful too.

    Besides that the only unit righ now that may need a buff are bestigors.

    Bestigors were maybe a bit too good at the beginning of wh2 when beastmen were actually kind of OP.

    Although even at that time when they were actually cost effective, a rear charge with a terror causing entity, while being engaged at the front will terror rout them instantly. Thats why I actually think they were fine back then .

    In any case they got tons of nerfs (a lot of them undeserved) making them a pretty lackluster unit right now.

    I struggle to find a match up where they are actually useful, in fact I only pick them vs dwarfs but no because they are really good vs them, I pick them simply because there is not a better option in the roster (infantry unit) to clean most dwarf units.

    I honestly think that at 1050 they are simply overpriced and for that reason a 50 gold reduction is clearly warranted.


    Lastly giving ungor spearmen stalk and vanguard is certainly a good move that I agree with, but the problem is the 50 price increase.

    Ungor spearmen are the basic chaff unit of beastmen, you always need 4 or 5 of them no matter the match up, and for that reason the 50 gold increase has been for all practical purposes a NERF and not a buff.

    Stalk and vangaurd in a chaff unit are not that useful simply beacuse the unit primary purpose is not exactly that.

    I do understand that for lore and consistency reason with other ungors units those traits should be given to ungor spearmen.

    But vanguard and stalk are kind of racial atributtes of low tier beastmen units, so for that reason I believe beatmen units should get it at somekind of discount price, like 25 gold instead of 50.

    So in my opinion ungor spearmen need a 25 gold decrease.

    And finally bray shaman should also get vanguard deploy. Cause they are actually gors, and vanguard is a racial trait of gors.

    Besides, making a full vanguard "in your face army" with with Khazrak as your lord is still hindered by not being able to vanguard deply your caster.

    All opinions my own.

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  • FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Registered Users Posts: 529
    @Vistahm I agree with every things you said. Yes, if beastmen had their missing units it would be a great opportunity to fix broken matchups.

    How come we dont have generic caster lords just like Vampire Coast? These guy even have two weapons variants per magic lore. The favoritism is really **** me off.

    If the Jabberslythe had magic damage it would be a great tool in the vampire matchup. A giant SEM with magic damage to fend of ethereal units. Slap unbreakable on it because of its uther ugliness and we have something great!

    Same goes for the Ghorgon if it was anti-infantry with a touch of magic damage. 🤷‍♂️
  • FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Registered Users Posts: 529
    Resurrection
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