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Make Markus great again!

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  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Posts: 1,154Registered Users
    i test him against kholek and honestly he can still delete kholak pretty quickly wiyh his abilities as long as you have something to block screen for him. not as week as every one seems to be crying i prttey certain as long as you can keep feral bastilidon away from hm he will kill it very fast he still has over 450 weapon strength that still higher than luthor who is at 2nd place for ranged lords.
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,936Registered Users
    Rheingold said:

    He clearly needed nerfs, I doubt anyone would deny that. But the nerfs are to much. I really wish CA would have more and smaller balance patches instead of the occasional humongous whopper. This is typical of them, overpowered unit, nerf it into the ground....

    I agree.

    CA too often nerf something really hard to the point where it needs multiple patches to be good again.

    If they cut their big nerfs in half it'd be fine. He clearly needed it but probably not so much.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • DeludeDelude Posts: 309Registered Users
    He's. Still. Strong.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Posts: 4,405Registered Users
    edited October 17
    ArneSo said:

    It’s not boring when your main heroe is strong in one small niche.

    He still can kill Aranessa on crab before she gets to him. He can easily do 4k plus damage againsf a large unit before they get in melee. This is **** a lot. Dont act like they made him pee shooter, the guy still hits 475 mostly AP with 120 Bonus vs Large and 2 powerfull sniping abilities and a net


  • TheokolesOfRomeTheokolesOfRome Senior Member The Highlands in me kilt.Posts: 1,485Registered Users
    Markus appears to be fine.

    Amber Bow still does good damage as does his regular shot.

    Precision is a bit of a joke - but it wasn't great beforehand.

    Point is - with a little care he can still delete enemy generals and large monsters.

    Remember - he's the only Lord with the stalk ability. Can make him incredibly hard to find and that is an advantage.
    My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/brightbluejacket1
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  • RheingoldRheingold Posts: 210Registered Users

    Rheingold said:

    He clearly needed nerfs, I doubt anyone would deny that. But the nerfs are to much. I really wish CA would have more and smaller balance patches instead of the occasional humongous whopper. This is typical of them, overpowered unit, nerf it into the ground....

    I agree.

    CA too often nerf something really hard to the point where it needs multiple patches to be good again.

    If they cut their big nerfs in half it'd be fine. He clearly needed it but probably not so much.
    Yeah, I think overall CA have done an incredible job with Warhammer, but the one issue where I reckon they let the team down is the patch frequency. Balance in a game is better served by smaller more frequent patches. Also bug fixes take an inordinate amount of time for them to get to. But they have been pretty clear that they don’t work like that. So I can’t see any improvement which is a pity, cause better patch support would really help the game.
  • ForistaForista Posts: 51Registered Users
    edited October 17
    Now on Vortex his campaign is impossible (not only on Legendary, VH/VH too). On first turn can't do the first battle anymore.

    If you want to make Huntsman better than Markus ok, Markus stay close with the Halbediers and the Huntsman for the buffs. Even the WE Kalara is better than Markus now with her final skills.

    But PLEASE touch the single player campaign too and make Lustria more manageable... at least on the stupid turn 1 on Vortex Campaign.

    AND if you nerf to oblivion his skills, at least make them DO NOT FAIL. I'm tired of shooting big monster when they are alone and still failing; the arrows doesn't impact and vanish on the air if the monster is moving.

    Thanks CA for destroying the goddamn fun and not solving the bugs.
    Post edited by Forista on
  • innerpinnerp Junior Member Posts: 305Registered Users
    hate mp ruining sp. surely they could have just greatly increased the cost of his epic item and removed his net in mp
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,936Registered Users
    Rheingold said:

    Rheingold said:

    He clearly needed nerfs, I doubt anyone would deny that. But the nerfs are to much. I really wish CA would have more and smaller balance patches instead of the occasional humongous whopper. This is typical of them, overpowered unit, nerf it into the ground....

    I agree.

    CA too often nerf something really hard to the point where it needs multiple patches to be good again.

    If they cut their big nerfs in half it'd be fine. He clearly needed it but probably not so much.
    Yeah, I think overall CA have done an incredible job with Warhammer, but the one issue where I reckon they let the team down is the patch frequency. Balance in a game is better served by smaller more frequent patches. Also bug fixes take an inordinate amount of time for them to get to. But they have been pretty clear that they don’t work like that. So I can’t see any improvement which is a pity, cause better patch support would really help the game.
    After looking at it I don't think this nerf is that big. He's still a vastly strong buffer and strong individually.

    While I understand wanting more frequent patches, which would be nice ultimately I want the best end game possible.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • King_ManduKing_Mandu Posts: 31Registered Users

    No matter if you play MP or SP, this is not ok


    GREAT play by the DE player for rushing a squishy character ahead of his forces, let them sit there and be sniped and not move them at all after the initial damage. Just outstanding work!

    I can do the same thing if I ran that Supreme Sorceress up against Tyrion in a melee battle. She'll get deleted in nearly the same amount of time.
  • UagrimUagrim Posts: 702Registered Users
    No two ability combo should be able to delete a lord in such a short amount of time.

    He got nerfed yes, by quiet a bit in fact but that doesn't make him unplayable.

    He still does awesome damage against large targets with stalk and snipe to boot.

    If we go the hole "he should be able to DELETE any monster cause he's a hunter" way.
    We would have so many other issues and LLs that would need to be buffed, people like Mazdamundi should be able to remove most of your opponents army with a single spell.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,936Registered Users

    No matter if you play MP or SP, this is not ok


    GREAT play by the DE player for rushing a squishy character ahead of his forces, let them sit there and be sniped and not move them at all after the initial damage. Just outstanding work!

    I can do the same thing if I ran that Supreme Sorceress up against Tyrion in a melee battle. She'll get deleted in nearly the same amount of time.
    It's poor play by them, but it neatly demonstrates how badly OP Markus was. The DE player lost micro on 1 unit for a few seconds and it got deleted. Tyrion wouldn't kill the Sorceress in melee that quickly, but even if he did it'd still be less valuable than what Markus just does there. From a ranged position at no risk he deletes a character in seconds. That shouldn't happen in TWW with anything less than heavy focus fire.

    As is these nerfs take him from massively powerful to simply powerful.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • hanesdavhanesdav Posts: 824Registered Users
    Amonkhet said:

    Seldkam said:

    ArneSo said:

    @GallowmereWarlock

    Honestly, if someone is so stupid to send his LL as the first charge against Markus...

    I don’t have words for this 😂😂

    Use some tactics dude, protect your Lord when you know Wulfie is out there aiming at you...

    >Markus makes enemy lords irrelevant because they have to hide the whole game.

    >Yep sounds like tactical gameplay to me!
    Here we have Kroak on turn 1 insta-deleting units.
    Don't forget about Doomrockets :)
  • hanesdavhanesdav Posts: 824Registered Users
    zinsncabs said:

    The nerfs are certainly extensive, but are they excessive? Has anyone here actually played Markus post-nerf or are people simply reacting because outrage seems to be the thing to do nowadays?

    I tried him and he is bad even against very big monsters. It is better to use normal missile units.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 2,134Registered Users
    What about Tyrion insta deleting enemie heroes in a melee fight? No complains? No? Great because that’s exactly how he should be, the best duellist in the world.
    Of course he is op, he’s an op character from the lore. Some characters are just incredibly powerful.

    And Markus is the greatest monster killer in the world, so it’s fine when he is a little bit op against monsters.
  • UagrimUagrim Posts: 702Registered Users
    edited October 17
    ArneSo said:

    What about Tyrion insta deleting enemie heroes in a melee fight? No complains? No? Great because that’s exactly how he should be, the best duellist in the world.
    Of course he is op, he’s an op character from the lore. Some characters are just incredibly powerful.

    And Markus is the greatest monster killer in the world, so it’s fine when he is a little bit op against monsters.

    No word on Ungrim Ironfist or Gotrek the greatest slayers and monster hunters of the dwarf race?
    Those two should beat Markuses achivement by quiet a bit whne it comes to it.

    Tyrion also can't kill a character without getting close to them meaning their is a lot more option for counterplay, not to mention even he takes more time to actually kill a target.

    Against the supreme sorceress he would need 7 hits to kill her and that is with her being his PERFECT target. Unlike Markus who she should be one of the worst targets to shoot at when on foot. Not even factoring in Tyrions higher cost.

  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 2,134Registered Users
    edited October 17
    Costs for LLs are something only important in MP not in SP. I couldn’t care less about Costs. I just want my faction leader to be super powerful.

    Markus should be normal against human sized Lords but deadly against large monsters. A bow is a deadly weapon and Markus is a deadly monster hunter.

    I think MP and SP players have just to different opinions about the game... so any kind of discussion is pointless.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,936Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    What about Tyrion insta deleting enemie heroes in a melee fight? No complains? No? Great because that’s exactly how he should be, the best duellist in the world.
    Of course he is op, he’s an op character from the lore. Some characters are just incredibly powerful.

    And Markus is the greatest monster killer in the world, so it’s fine when he is a little bit op against monsters.

    He really isn't. And Tyrion can't delete a character nearly as fast as Markus can.

    He's still objectively one of the most powerful characters ingame. The difference is now he drops a Characters health to half in a couple seconds. He's still hugely powerful.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • UagrimUagrim Posts: 702Registered Users
    Then you must be unhappy with quiet a few faction leaders which aren't super powerful right from the get go, some stay that way for most of the game.

    He is still good, he doesn't have quiet the killing power he had before but if they only wanted to change MP they would have left executioner unchanged, its clear that CA thought he was overtuned even in campaign.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 2,167Registered Users
    After trying out Markus is still really powerful honestly. On paper the nerf seemed to be too strong but he's still very good at his job, meaning killing monsters.
  • AristodemosIIAristodemosII Posts: 111Registered Users
    I'm not sure what this is supposed to be, a "markus is good in lore so make him OP in game or my campaign is ruined", or a "oh no I cant abuse quick battles anymore by sniping my opponents lord in 10 seconds", but both is silly.
    Common sense applies.
  • Maniac3194Maniac3194 Posts: 1Registered Users
    Forista said:

    Now on Vortex his campaign is impossible (not only on Legendary, VH/VH too). On first turn can't do the first battle anymore.

    This is ridiculous I just played his turn 1 legendary/vh campaign and was still able to take the first city on turn one with no units lost.

  • chosen_of_areschosen_of_ares Posts: 8Registered Users
    Markus will always be good because he has an aoe net, but 2 abilities from a “monster killing specialist” should not one shot a runelord on foot. He was way too strong. Now I’d have preferred that one of his abilities simply be removed from mp but ca for some reason doesn’t like that design philosophy.
  • DatHomieSilverSurferDatHomieSilverSurfer Posts: 150Registered Users
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    zinsncabs said:

    Amonkhet said:

    zinsncabs said:

    ArneSo said:

    @zinsncabs

    The main problem is, that CA always nerfs things that are actually okay, just for the sake of balance.

    Balance is something that only matters for competitive MP players.

    No, that's wrong. An imbalanced campaign is a boring campaign.
    I'd be inclined to agree with @Ephraim_Dalton - balance should matter in SP. But again, is he still effective post-nerf or is he garbage now?
    He's been nerfed by more than 50%. Practically all of his abilities and stats have been touched. Thats a massive change.
    I get that. On paper it looks excessive, hell massive even. But have you played him yet? You know, actually taken him out for a drive post-nerf? Is he still effective or is he completely worthless now? That's all I'm asking. I see a lot of outrage, but no actual testimonial from anyone saying I played him pre-nerf and he was awesome, I just played him post-nerf and now he's garbage. Not trying to be combative, just asking if he's still effective and competitive with other LLs.
    Well his campain was kinda...bad at pre-nerf, now its worse.
    Again, can't say I agree. Thanks to his buggy abilities I rarely used him as the centerpiece for battles.
    Buggy abilities, poor starting units, losing most of the empire mechanics and roster when it counts, no access to more than one Elector count unit... now the LL is niche on top of this.

    His skillines arent that great either.
    he gets 4 incredible heroes to stack in his army with massive army wide buffs attached to most of their skill trees. He has buffs that make huntsmen into a massive of mobile artillery... none of which was predicated around his damage dealing.


    the campaign is supposed to be hard, but that's the point. The early game access he gets to high tier empire troops and his ability to recruit them like RoR is ridiculously effective and combined with his heroes is much more potent than you're giving credit. If the campaign is too hard for you, play it on an easier difficulty. Because it's nice having a few campaigns where you're forced to actually prepare and strategize on the campaign map for more than the first 20 turns. I managed to beat it during the port nerf, and never recall actually relying on markus for dealing damage, it was everything else he brought to the table (which is still all there) that made him so fun/excellent to play
  • SteelRoninSteelRonin Junior Member ChilePosts: 654Registered Users
    Markus OP? how?....his rof was like 2 shots per battle as he takes years to aim....lol
  • KirashioKirashio Posts: 11Registered Users
    If your argument for not nerfing him is lore, there are a dozen or so characters who should be receiving ungodly buffs because lorewise they could ragdoll him (and often his entire army too). By lore he is barely a footnote on the grand stage.

    If your argument for not nerfing him is mechanics, he is still the best anti-large ranged killer in the game while also carrying other huge benefits. He is fine.

    If your argument is that "shields shouldn't block arrows", I will first refer you to reality, and I will remind you that mechanically, the shield block chance only applies to attacks from the front, so perhaps your stalk vanguard deployable hunter can attack from other angles.

    If your argument is "just play around him, dodge his projectiles and use tactics", I'll point out that dodging and making tactical moves against him is pretty hard when he can reduce your move speed to zero, from range.

    And finally, if your argument is "multiplayer is irrelevant, only single player matters so being OP is ok", well, the AI is completely incapable of playing around him and his abilities, so congratulations, he still pretty much wrecks them.
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