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Grom+Grim Start Position Reveal?

RiskafishRiskafish Posts: 360Registered Users
The evidence
A faction called Lead-cutterz were added during the Doomsayer update to the northern red rivers in the southlands. This initially looked to just be a way to add more enemy variety for Tictactoe however things have recently changed. In the Empire Undivided the same faction was added to the new Misty Veils province within the Empire in Mortal Empires. This province includes a settlement called the Black Pit.

The Black Pit is significant as a "goblin" settlement and it is right next to the path WAAAGH Grom took before leaving for Ulthalon. What is more, the symbol of the black pit is different than the one in the "eye for an eye" beastmen campaign and is a new faction that is present in both the Vortex and Mortal Empires.

As we all know with other changes in game, they are normally a way of preparing for upcoming content.

Arcani_4_ever also made a excellent post called "Eltharion might start in Tor Elasor" which would put Eltharion within the areas aswell.

Why this could be the starting locations?
The reason why this could work is that Grom would have quicker path to Ulthalon which would allow Eltharion to arrive when Grom is already well on the way to destroying the wayshrines around Ulthalon. This is pretty much what happened in the lore with the final conflict being a "all or nothing" kind of moment.

It also gives High Elves a start position outside Ulthalon and a old world race a start position in a area other than Lustria.

What do you guys reckon?







Comments

  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,919Registered Users
    I mean, it's possible, but Grom wasn't famous so much for fighting the High Elves, but for being an actual threat to Ulthuan itself. So if the playing field between the two is away from Toilet Island, it's a lot less to RP and recreate for the player. In addition, the Black Pit is a major Forest Goblin stronghold, so basing Grom, a regular hill goblin out of there is results in a lost opportunity on the same scale as Grimgor booting Gorfang Rotgut out of his home and the potential LL pool.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,284Registered Users
    What do I reckon? Tor Elasor is a great start position for His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledoran, the Lord of the Dragons.

    Dragon banner shall grace the ramparts of this alabaster fortress.


    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,919Registered Users

    What do I reckon? Tor Elasor is a great start position for His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledoran, the Lord of the Dragons.

    Dragon banner shall grace the ramparts of this alabaster fortress.


    Honest question, assuming that Imrik is like Teclis and doesn't start in his home Kingdom, what do you think would be a good faction name for him? Court of Caledor or House Caledoran doesn't sound right when Caledor itself is a faction on the map.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 1,644Registered Users
    edited October 19
    If they wanted to go for the most fun start positions (as in, the most interesting in terms of how many new matchups it would allow for as HE and Greenskins) they could set the pack AFTER Grom's shenanigans, with the theme being "settling the score" or "round two".

    Supposedly he disappeared, and then Eltharion went to the Badlands. That would give the HE a start near the center or southeast of the map, and Grom could be either where the Leaf Cutterz are (since that seems pretty logical) having fled from Ulthuan.

    Or if they wanted to go full insanity wolf, they could put him by the Dark Elves. I'd really like to do a Greenskins campaign against Elves and Dinosaurs.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • SubjectEighteenSubjectEighteen Posts: 402Registered Users
    Wyvax said:

    What do I reckon? Tor Elasor is a great start position for His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledoran, the Lord of the Dragons.

    Dragon banner shall grace the ramparts of this alabaster fortress.


    Honest question, assuming that Imrik is like Teclis and doesn't start in his home Kingdom, what do you think would be a good faction name for him? Court of Caledor or House Caledoran doesn't sound right when Caledor itself is a faction on the map.
    "Prince Imrik and the Boys"
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 1,644Registered Users
    Does anyone think we may get some news about the upcoming DLC tomorrow or the day after?

    I know we won't SEE any of it, but I was wondering.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,919Registered Users
    Sephlock said:

    Does anyone think we may get some news about the upcoming DLC tomorrow or the day after?

    I know we won't SEE any of it, but I was wondering.

    I wish, but I don't think we'll see any hints for about a months time.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 1,644Registered Users
    Wyvax said:

    Sephlock said:

    Does anyone think we may get some news about the upcoming DLC tomorrow or the day after?

    I know we won't SEE any of it, but I was wondering.

    I wish, but I don't think we'll see any hints for about a months time.
    No... please...
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • LabriaLabria Posts: 511Registered Users
    edited October 19
    Grom should start in Ulthuan. One Greenskins and one Dark Elves Legendardy Lord will make Ulthuan more interesting.
    Black Pit is perfect start position for Snagla Grobspit.
    Post edited by Labria on
  • SteppelordSteppelord Junior Member Posts: 2,186Registered Users
    Wyvax said:

    What do I reckon? Tor Elasor is a great start position for His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledoran, the Lord of the Dragons.

    Dragon banner shall grace the ramparts of this alabaster fortress.


    Honest question, assuming that Imrik is like Teclis and doesn't start in his home Kingdom, what do you think would be a good faction name for him? Court of Caledor or House Caledoran doesn't sound right when Caledor itself is a faction on the map.
    Berk. I hope you get the reference. Hint -- toothless
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    Seems realistic to me. The Southlands are just to empty at the moment.

    But I think Tor Elasor might be to powerful as a starting Position.
    Think that HE Colony in not-South Africa is more likely. Would be a hard start between Queek and Kroq-Gar.
  • RiskafishRiskafish Posts: 360Registered Users
    Sephlock said:

    If they wanted to go for the most fun start positions (as in, the most interesting in terms of how many new matchups it would allow for as HE and Greenskins) they could set the pack AFTER Grom's shenanigans, with the theme being "settling the score" or "round two".

    Supposedly he disappeared, and then Eltharion went to the Badlands. That would give the HE a start near the center or southeast of the map, and Grom could be either where the Leaf Cutterz are (since that seems pretty logical) having fled from Ulthuan.

    Or if they wanted to go full insanity wolf, they could put him by the Dark Elves. I'd really like to do a Greenskins campaign against Elves and Dinosaurs.


    I couldn't agree more. Dinosaurs make any campaign better xD.
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 968Registered Users
    U missed one thing, why would Grom and Eltharion start in the bottom right of the map away from Ultuan and have Grom start in the Empire and Eltharion in Ulthuan I guess. Does not make a whole lot of sense.

    The changes made for Diversity in the map like they did before and might be opportunities for WE Legendary Lords and GS Legendary Lords but I doubt it will be Grom.

    Grom and Eltharion are 99% likely to be added in a Cross over DLC after the coming Updates and DLC.

    I think Grom will start in the Blue Vipers position and Eltharion will start in Ulthuan in the ME campaign.

    U would have Skeggi vs Hexoati, Drowned vs New world colonies and Blue vipers vs Highelves / Lizardman. there are ruins left as well.

    When it comes to the Vortex u might be right, they both could start in the bottom right of the map and would have some sort of race like K8P.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    edited October 19
    @Marker

    I mean why should Markus ever go to Lustria? CA can invent every story they like.

    Something like:

    After Groms failed invasion of Ulthuan he managed to flee from the island and made it to the Southlands. There he took over a local tribe of GS that heard stories about his ambitious and legendary WAAARGH.

    In the same time Eltharion gets send on a routine mission to secure the HE Colonies in the Southlands and protect them against LM and Skaven. But then one sunny day, he met an old enemy that he thought would be long dead. An old Rival. So a normal routine mission turns into some personal task. Finally kill that fat Gobbo. Finish what he started years ago.


    Seems like a nice Story to me.

    Edit:
    A start in Lustria seems unlikely, that area is already to crowded. In the north you have Hexoatl, Markus expedition and the fat opera lady. Blue vipers are just a punching ball with cheap wild orc units.

    Remember that the GS tribes in the Southland are listed under normal GS and not Wild Orcs.

    A start in Ulthuan seems also unlikely. It’s a holy place and the only foreign races starting there should be Deamons or DE.

    Do you really want a campaign where GS basically live in shiny HE Cities, drinking wine and living their best lifes?
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 1,664Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    @Marker

    I mean why should Markus ever go to Lustria? CA can invent every story they like.

    Something like:

    After Groms failed invasion of Ulthuan he managed to flee from the island and made it to the Southlands. There he took over a local tribe of GS that heard stories about his ambitious and legendary WAAARGH.

    In the same time Eltharion gets send on a routine mission to secure the HE Colonies in the Southlands and protect them against LM and Skaven. But then one sunny day, he met an old enemy that he thought would be long dead. An old Rival. So a normal routine mission turns into some personal task. Finally kill that fat Gobbo. Finish what he started years ago.


    Seems like a nice Story to me.

    Edit:
    A start in Lustria seems unlikely, that area is already to crowded. In the north you have Hexoatl, Markus expedition and the fat opera lady. Blue vipers are just a punching ball with cheap wild orc units.

    Remember that the GS tribes in the Southland are listed under normal GS and not Wild Orcs.

    A start in Ulthuan seems also unlikely. It’s a holy place and the only foreign races starting there should be Deamons or DE.

    Do you really want a campaign where GS basically live in shiny HE Cities, drinking wine and living their best lifes?

    What's interesting about the Orcs in the Southlands (the leafcutterz) is that they also added this faction in Black Pit for ME. Why not adding the Black Pit tribe instead ? I think it's because Grom is going to be in this faction. Leafcutterz have Black Pit and the Wrecker's Point which is pretty the area he started to sail to Ulthuan from.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    Oh didn’t realise that it is the same faction in Black pit. Would be a super interesting start position for GS in ME and would also spice up the Empire or even Norsca.
    The Vortex Start would also be nice, just in between TK, LM, Skaven and WE.

    Seems obvious that CA has plans for that faction and the black pit in general.
  • RYANS319RYANS319 Posts: 86Registered Users
    Honestly, I think we are going to get a dynamic start position for Eltharion much like we did for Nakai. Eltharion comes back to find Grom having taken the coast and he has to raise an army to fight them.

    Grom could start anywhere raising an army to seek revenge.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Posts: 1,664Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    Oh didn’t realise that it is the same faction in Black pit. Would be a super interesting start position for GS in ME and would also spice up the Empire or even Norsca.
    The Vortex Start would also be nice, just in between TK, LM, Skaven and WE.

    Seems obvious that CA has plans for that faction and the black pit in general.

    And if it can stops the Empire from steamrolling that'd be great.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    edited October 19
    I agree, dynamic starts are a given in my opinion. Would offer 2 completely different scenarios depending on the LL you choose to play as.

    Everything that stops HE, Empire and LM from Steamrolling is welcome.

    Right now Kroq-Gar is out of Control in the Southlands. He always wipes out all other races in the continent.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,284Registered Users
    edited October 19
    Wyvax said:

    What do I reckon? Tor Elasor is a great start position for His Majesty the Crown Prince Imrik of the House Caledoran, the Lord of the Dragons.

    Dragon banner shall grace the ramparts of this alabaster fortress.


    Honest question, assuming that Imrik is like Teclis and doesn't start in his home Kingdom, what do you think would be a good faction name for him? Court of Caledor or House Caledoran doesn't sound right when Caledor itself is a faction on the map.
    I think it is possible to rename Caledor proper into let's say Princes of Caledor but considering naming pattern that is currently in the game it would disturb Ulthuan a little bit. Then maybe Dragonlords or something like that.
    Sephlock said:

    If they wanted to go for the most fun start positions (as in, the most interesting in terms of how many new matchups it would allow for as HE and Greenskins) they could set the pack AFTER Grom's shenanigans, with the theme being "settling the score" or "round two".

    Supposedly he disappeared, and then Eltharion went to the Badlands. That would give the HE a start near the center or southeast of the map, and Grom could be either where the Leaf Cutterz are (since that seems pretty logical) having fled from Ulthuan.

    Or if they wanted to go full insanity wolf, they could put him by the Dark Elves. I'd really like to do a Greenskins campaign against Elves and Dinosaurs.

    DE vs. GS oh yes, so good!
    Post edited by Maedrethnir on
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    Caledor is just next to Lotherns start Position. It’s basically the punching ball for both Tyrion and Noctilus, so it will never be it’s own faction. Never.
  • LabriaLabria Posts: 511Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    Caledor is just next to Lotherns start Position. It’s basically the punching ball for both Tyrion and Noctilus, so it will never be it’s own faction. Never.

    Everything is possible but I prefer Aslinn or Korhil for FLC. Aslinn can start in southern colonies and Korhil in Chrace. This is more interesting than Imrik in Caledor.

    I thought about one thing. Is it possible to add dragon mount to Aislinn? If yes, we don't need Imrik and Caledor at all. o:)
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,510Registered Users
    @Labria

    Yes everything is possible but some things are simply unlikely. Caledor would be a horrible start position and we know CA good enough to assume, that they won’t put any LLs into that Region.
    So chances for Princess Imrik are very low.

    Chrace as a start would also be to similar to Avelorn and we already have white Lions, so also not the best option.

    That Seahelm Aislinn seems interesting, could work as some kind of “fleet” faction like VCoast. Would be interesting to have an HE horde faction with a focus on foundling colonies. (Like Nakai)
    I‘m sure he could use a Dragon, we already have Lokhir and Luthor Harkon with unloreful mounts so I don’t see a problem here.
  • LabriaLabria Posts: 511Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    @Labria

    Yes everything is possible but some things are simply unlikely. Caledor would be a horrible start position and we know CA good enough to assume, that they won’t put any LLs into that Region.
    So chances for Princess Imrik are very low.

    Chrace as a start would also be to similar to Avelorn and we already have white Lions, so also not the best option.

    That Seahelm Aislinn seems interesting, could work as some kind of “fleet” faction like VCoast. Would be interesting to have an HE horde faction with a focus on foundling colonies. (Like Nakai)
    I‘m sure he could use a Dragon, we already have Lokhir and Luthor Harkon with unloreful mounts so I don’t see a problem here.

    Sure, Aislinn is more interesting choice. Vampire Count horde system is perfect for Aislinn.
    Lokhir and Aislinn are great enemies. They should start close to each other in Vortex. We can have epic fight on sea with dragons.

    I am not sure about his start position in Mortal Empires. Maybe Cothique? If Eltharion will be in Badlands for ME. Grom will still have enemy LL on east side of Ulthuan. Also, Aislinn can expand to Old World. After all, he has enemies in Marienburg.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Posts: 5,284Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    Caledor is just next to Lotherns start Position. It’s basically the punching ball for both Tyrion and Noctilus, so it will never be it’s own faction. Never.

    Never say never. And to be honest he doesn't need to start in Caledor.
    Labria said:

    ArneSo said:

    Caledor is just next to Lotherns start Position. It’s basically the punching ball for both Tyrion and Noctilus, so it will never be it’s own faction. Never.

    Everything is possible but I prefer Aslinn or Korhil for FLC. Aslinn can start in southern colonies and Korhil in Chrace. This is more interesting than Imrik in Caledor.

    I thought about one thing. Is it possible to add dragon mount to Aislinn? If yes, we don't need Imrik and Caledor at all. o:)
    Of course it is possible to add dragon mount to Aislinn but it won't ever work as a substitute for Imrik and Caledor. Both are extremely important to the High Elves. Vital inclusions really.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • SultschiemSultschiem Posts: 1,629Registered Users
    edited October 19
    Sephlock said:

    If they wanted to go for the most fun start positions (as in, the most interesting in terms of how many new matchups it would allow for as HE and Greenskins) they could set the pack AFTER Grom's shenanigans, with the theme being "settling the score" or "round two".

    Supposedly he disappeared, and then Eltharion went to the Badlands. That would give the HE a start near the center or southeast of the map, and Grom could be either where the Leaf Cutterz are (since that seems pretty logical) having fled from Ulthuan.

    Or if they wanted to go full insanity wolf, they could put him by the Dark Elves. I'd really like to do a Greenskins campaign against Elves and Dinosaurs.

    They would have to do that anyway....considering that that happened a while ago
    The year 2420-2425.

    Waaagh Azhag started in the year 2512, thats almost 100 years later.

    My personal favorite idea would have been, that his shaman`s shenanigans with the wards caused him to be sucked into the same realm that teclis entered in "Giantslayer" and only now has he managed to get out....or something like that.
  • rafantomasrafantomas Posts: 649Registered Users
    Grom needs to start in Ulthuan or nearby, it paints that continent in such a beautiful wharghish way.
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