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CA will choose Skweel over Throt IMO

UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
Hello. I've been a lurker since WII's reveal (Chaos Dwarfs, where is the love? is still best thread ever). You all have provided me so much entertainment over the years (especially this week) and due to needing an account for G&R I decided to show some gratitude.


With the current popular theory that the DLC will be the Ratman vs Edgy Elves, Clan Moulder is the most logical choice for fleshing (haha) out the Skaven as they are lacking their most "ICONIC" monster; The Giant Rat. As such Throt the Unclean is the most logical choice for leading the clan, however we all know CA likes to be subversive for better or worse and they LOVE saving money. So who better to accomplish this than Skweel Gwawtooth.

Skweel has four things going for him that I believe CA will find more appealing than my Goi Throt.
I. He is one of 4 remaining 7th Edition Skaven Army Book Characters to choose from and as we saw with Tretch, CA does not view Lord choices above Hero choices (Throt was a LL and Skweel was a LH).

II. He is a Packmaster from Clan Moulder. This means he can be justified leading the Great Clan even if it should be Throt. More importantly here however, is his creation can easily lead to the creation of a Packmaster hero or a Master Moulder/Mutator Lord.

III. He has a natural affinity with Giant rats and other Moulder monsters apart from the Hell Pit Abomination. This makes the special skills easy to plan out and also makes unit choices easier. Giant Rats, Wolf Rats and Brood Horrors (Though I wouldn't mind if this was what a hypothetical Throt got as well). Brood Horrors as well lead to the final point and largest (haha) point.

IV. Animations. CA works on a budget obviously, so who would be easier to animate? A "GENERIC" Ratman with a special whip or an obese ratman with a third arm? The third arm is my main reasoning for this thread. Skweel can use the existing Skaven model like Tretch, but Throt would require a new model just for that third arm.

Another problem with the new model is CA LOVES MOUNTS! So they would want their new Skaven LL on a mount. Skweel would be easy to place on a mount as the Brood Horror would also be given to the Warlord/Master Mutator as per the Forgeworld rules. Skweel could reuse those assets, whereas Throt would need his own unique animation set for the Brood Horror mount.


I of course could be wrong and I hope so. Throt the Unclean is a far more important character in both lore and TT, and as the last DLC proved their mount obsession hopefully has started calming down and I have no real knowledge of how models/animations work, I just tend to be pessimistic. I'm curious as to how this community feels as there are so many conflicting personalities on this Forum.
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Comments

  • SerPusSerPus Posts: 47Registered Users
    CA LOVES MOUNTS! So they would want their new Skaven LL on a mount

    I guess that's why none of the last 3 LLs have any mount.
  • RiskafishRiskafish Posts: 356Registered Users
    They said we getting a fan favourite at Christmas, Thrott is THEE most popular Skaven lord by a large margin.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
    "...and as the last DLC proved their mount obsession hopefully has started calming down" I'm aware.
    Also they gave best Rat Ikit Claw 2 mounts. I don't have faith they'll not give another Rat one
  • angry_rat_loverangry_rat_lover Posts: 794Registered Users
    I actually don’t see any problem with Throt getting a mount? Throt is the leader of Moulder and the 2nd in command of the clan, like Queek and Ikit, no reason to get Skweel instead of Throt.

    besides, the ’’easier to make’’ rule only applies to FLC, not DLC characters.
    Riskafish said:

    They said we getting a fan favourite at Christmas, Thrott is THEE most popular Skaven lord by a large margin.

    That’s Thanquol
    Soon
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
    Riskafish said:

    They said we getting a fan favourite at Christmas, Thrott is THEE most popular Skaven lord by a large margin.

    I agree to a certain extent, but I think they mean with popular with Warhammer Fans. The two big names left are Malus and Thanquol. Throt is definitely popular on these boards, but I'm unsure of his TT popularity because I never played it.

    P.S Your Imrik and Malus posts were amazing, keep up the solid work.
  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,917Registered Users
    If we could, I'd love to see both of them in the same faction, similar to Vlad and Isabella. Or at least Skweel based out of one of Moulder's subordinate clans (I think there's one in the Darklands/Worlds Edge Mountains) like TTT is in Tlaqua. But Skweel is definitely FLC material whilst Throt is going to DLC budget stuff.
    Tomes read: The Great Betrayal, Master of Dragons, Curse of the Phoenix Crown, Trollslayer, Skavenslayer, Daemonslayer, Dragonslayer, Beastslayer, Vampireslayer, Malekith, The Bloody Handed

    It's T. rex, not T-Rex, you filthy casuals.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users

    I actually don’t see any problem with Throt getting a mount? Throt is the leader of Moulder and the 2nd in command of the clan, like Queek and Ikit, no reason to get Skweel instead of Throt.

    My problem with mounts is plenty, but mostly it leads to characters who absolutely should NOT have mounts getting them for no reason like Lokhir, Wulfrik and the Vampire Coast lords recieving them for the "variety". It also leads to the horrific state of foot lords and the unironic response of "just give them mounts".

    Throt on a Brood Horror would IMO remove alot of his uniqueness and would probably lead into Master Mutators all having 5 limbs like Throt and make him nothing. Though that could be paranoia on my part.

    besides, the ’’easier to make’’ rule only applies to FLC, not DLC characters.
    That is true generally, though all Lords thus far have been alterations to existing models, not wholly unique. I'm just not sure they would make a brand new model without making Master Mutators all the same as him, which is just as bad in my eyes.



  • angry_rat_loverangry_rat_lover Posts: 794Registered Users

    I actually don’t see any problem with Throt getting a mount? Throt is the leader of Moulder and the 2nd in command of the clan, like Queek and Ikit, no reason to get Skweel instead of Throt.

    My problem with mounts is plenty, but mostly it leads to characters who absolutely should NOT have mounts getting them for no reason like Lokhir, Wulfrik and the Vampire Coast lords recieving them for the "variety". It also leads to the horrific state of foot lords and the unironic response of "just give them mounts".

    Throt on a Brood Horror would IMO remove alot of his uniqueness and would probably lead into Master Mutators all having 5 limbs like Throt and make him nothing. Though that could be paranoia on my part.

    besides, the ’’easier to make’’ rule only applies to FLC, not DLC characters.
    That is true generally, though all Lords thus far have been alterations to existing models, not wholly unique. I'm just not sure they would make a brand new model without making Master Mutators all the same as him, which is just as bad in my eyes.



    Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly, I dislike mounted lords for this reason, it removes their uniqueness
    Soon
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,429Registered Users
    I'd like to see Throt mounted. He should ride one of his creations into battle just to demonstrate his dominance.

    Myself I'll assume we're getting Throt. There's reasons to be pessimistic but I'll be optimistic and believe in the best. It's also likely given that CA is giving us a fan favourite next.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 1,626Registered Users

    I'd like to see Throt mounted.

    just to demonstrate his dominance.
    Oh my.

    As for pessimism, the thought of slots being wasted on giant rats or wolf rats or both is pessimistic enough.

    I can see one slot, but not two, please Sigmar no.
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,429Registered Users
    As P&W neatly demonstrated slots aren't a resource.

    I could see them doing the 3 rats then Mutated Rogres. Like Stormfiends but without being so ridiculously overdesigned. Ideally a ranged variant and melee one. Throt would then get the Brood Horror as a mount.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
    edited October 19
    Delete Please. Cheers mods.
    Post edited by UberReptilian on
  • _Mad_D0c__Mad_D0c_ Posts: 933Registered Users
    Tgrots 3armed model/animatiin could be reused for some mutants/chaos monsters in game 3.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,429Registered Users
    Also keep in mind the other LL is going to be super easy to do. They can spend time on Throt.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users

    I'd like to see Throt mounted. He should ride one of his creations into battle just to demonstrate his dominance.

    Myself I'll assume we're getting Throt. There's reasons to be pessimistic but I'll be optimistic and believe in the best. It's also likely given that CA is giving us a fan favourite next.

    Admittedly Throt having a mount is not as egregious as Lokhir or Wulfrik, but the problem is he would be rendered nothing with one. How would he be any different from a Master Mutator or Warlord on a Brood Horror?
    Pessimism is useful as it prevents dissapointment or hype for things like no more races or crossover pack this year or the possible no Grim vs Grom pack.
    Sephlock said:



    As for pessimism, the thought of slots being wasted on giant rats or wolf rats or both is pessimistic enough.

    I can see one slot, but not two, please Sigmar no.

    I don't see the problem with that. Giant Rats absolutely must be in or the DLC will be worthless, and Wolf Rats aren't the same thing. The problem would be if they were implemented incorrectly ala Salamanders/Razordons. Correctly they would be very different.
    _Mad_D0c_ said:

    Tgrots 3armed model/animatiin could be reused for some mutants/chaos monsters in game 3.

    Pink/Blue horrors are the only thing I can think off that have the same limb structure, but they are vastly different and I don't think the Throt model would be suitable. Maybe if they can alter the skeleton perhaps.
  • MarkerMarker Posts: 968Registered Users
    Riskafish said:

    They said we getting a fan favourite at Christmas, Thrott is THEE most popular Skaven lord by a large margin.

    I disagree, I believe Thanquol is the most popular, the better lore as well I think. he even saved Clan Moulders Hellpit against Chaos. That is why I believe it will be Malus with Rakarth and Thrott hopefully with Skweel as a Legendary Hero.
    We need a Legendary Hero for the remaining races, we only have two so far, tree if u count Krell.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,375Registered Users
    SerPus said:

    CA LOVES MOUNTS! So they would want their new Skaven LL on a mount

    I guess that's why none of the last 3 LLs have any mount.
    Good to see them listening to sensible criticisms. Last DLC also had much less powercreep.
  • SteamageSteamage Posts: 349Registered Users
    @UberReptilian

    I understand your worries but ca did create komplett new Models and skeleton before.

    I Mean the two lizardman lords are the perfect example.

    Especially nakai.

    But you right and we have to, endure it that we get generic lords like him....

    I hope is not but CA really save in the lord apartment recently.
  • KelefaneKelefane Posts: 1,307Registered Users
    They already gave us Tretch. They'll be giving us big name Skaven going forward. Throt and Thanquol.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users
    Skweel has four things going for him that I believe CA will find more appealing than my Goi Throt.
    I. He is one of 4 remaining 7th Edition Skaven Army Book Characters to choose from and as we saw with Tretch, CA does not view Lord choices above Hero choices (Throt was a LL and Skweel was a LH).

    II. He is a Packmaster from Clan Moulder. This means he can be justified leading the Great Clan even if it should be Throt. More importantly here however, is his creation can easily lead to the creation of a Packmaster hero or a Master Moulder/Mutator Lord.

    III. He has a natural affinity with Giant rats and other Moulder monsters apart from the Hell Pit Abomination. This makes the special skills easy to plan out and also makes unit choices easier. Giant Rats, Wolf Rats and Brood Horrors (Though I wouldn't mind if this was what a hypothetical Throt got as well). Brood Horrors as well lead to the final point and largest (haha) point.

    IV. Animations. CA works on a budget obviously, so who would be easier to animate? A "GENERIC" Ratman with a special whip or an obese ratman with a third arm? The third arm is my main reasoning for this thread. Skweel can use the existing Skaven model like Tretch, but Throt would require a new model just for that third arm.

    Another problem with the new model is CA LOVES MOUNTS! So they would want their new Skaven LL on a mount. Skweel would be easy to place on a mount as the Brood Horror would also be given to the Warlord/Master Mutator as per the Forgeworld rules. Skweel could reuse those assets, whereas Throt would need his own unique animation set for the Brood Horror mount.

    I. Skweel is technically not even a Hero. The rules in the AB say he's treated as a unit champion in all respects.

    II. I doubt they'd reach down past Throt in order put Skweel in charge of Clan Moulder. It'd be like if they put Gor-Rok in charge of Itza instead of Lord Kr- oh wait. Barring that exception though, CA have tended to place the highest ranking respective character in charge of already established factions. Mazdamundi rightly leads Hexoatl instead of Tiktaq'to, Karl Franz leads the Empire instead of Volkmar, Gelt, or Wulfhart, etc. Tretch was only put in charge of Clan Rictus because he's the sole named (thus highest ranking) character from that Clan to have rules in the AB.

    III. If it's a Moulder themed LP, the units they include won't be contingent on if the featured LL is Skweel or Throt. Same goes for whichever Hero/Lord option ends up being added. It's the faction of Clan Moulder that will determine the units, not the LL.

    IV. The budget for LPs is understandably larger than the budget for FLC LLs. It's not like unprecedented animations that can't or have yet to be recycled haven't come before. Skarsnik is a good example; he's the only "dual entity" LL in the game so far. To your point about mounts, LLs on monstrous mounts don't typically have unique or complex animations. They usually just sit there while the mount does all the work.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • FungusHoundFungusHound Posts: 2,282Registered Users
    Skweel in the DLC

    Throt and Ghoritch as the pre-order with a the full hellpit roster.

    Or at least I can dream.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:


    I. Skweel is technically not even a Hero. The rules in the AB say he's treated as a unit champion in all respects.

    Taking a look back at the Skaven Army book the character is actually listed as a "core" unit which is quite interesting. Nonetheless as we saw with Nakai and Kroak they can take a named character and turn them into anything they want.

    II. I doubt they'd reach down past Throt in order put Skweel in charge of Clan Moulder. It'd be like if they put Gor-Rok in charge of Itza instead of Lord Kr- oh wait. Barring that exception though, CA have tended to place the highest ranking respective character in charge of already established factions. Mazdamundi rightly leads Hexoatl instead of Tiktaq'to, Karl Franz leads the Empire instead of Volkmar, Gelt, or Wulfhart, etc. Tretch was only put in charge of Clan Rictus because he's the sole named (thus highest ranking) character from that Clan to have rules in the AB.

    Lord Kroak is the very reason I'm concerned with the Clan Moulder leader. The last DLC proved they don't really care about lore that much (Kroxigor lords; VOMIT) and Kroak should rightfully be the faction leader but the most important lizardmen character is a powerup now. Same thing can apply to Throt and Skweel. It's very easy to make up an excuse to change leadership, "The Council of 13 don't trust the cannibalistic Master Mutator to lead an excursion out of Hellpit". Now Skweel techincally isn't leading Moulder he just represents it.
    P.S Your ideas on Kroak's implementation ages ago were vastly more interesting than what he became.

    III. If it's a Moulder themed LP, the units they include won't be contingent on if the featured LL is Skweel or Throt. Same goes for whichever Hero/Lord option ends up being added. It's the faction of Clan Moulder that will determine the units, not the LL.

    This is true, but I do think the Hero/Lord choice will be decided by who they choose. Packmaster ala Skweel, Master Moulder/Mutator ala Throt. (Though CA give me both please).


    IV. The budget for LPs is understandably larger than the budget for FLC LLs. It's not like unprecedented animations that can't or have yet to be recycled haven't come before. Skarsnik is a good example; he's the only "dual entity" LL in the game so far. To your point about mounts, LLs on monstrous mounts don't typically have unique or complex animations. They usually just sit there while the mount does all the work.

    Skarsnik is an exception. He also utilizes models already created. A Gobbo and a squig created for 2 other dlc units (3 if we count the Night Gobbo lord mount. The mounted lords do sit there doing nothing (another problem with giving him a mount), but adding the model to the mount still requires alteration as CA mentioned with creating Skink lords riding Cold Ones for the Ikit/Tehenhauin DLC. This also creates a fear for me that if Throt is added they will recycle his model for Master Moulder/Mutators leading to Throt being rendered GENERIC.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,716Registered Users
    Why take the underling when you can have the superior who also has a way more interesting model?

  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
    I agree with you there, I feel as if the model would be too unique. Hope I'm wrong though.
  • DatHomieSilverSurferDatHomieSilverSurfer Posts: 125Registered Users
    Sephlock said:

    I'd like to see Throt mounted.

    just to demonstrate his dominance.
    Oh my.

    As for pessimism, the thought of slots being wasted on giant rats or wolf rats or both is pessimistic enough.

    I can see one slot, but not two, please Sigmar no.


    I'm thinking we'll get Giant Rats with Wolf Rats as the RoR Giant Rat unit, similar to what chaos has with their hounds.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users

    Skarsnik is an exception. He also utilizes models already created. A Gobbo and a squig created for 2 other dlc units (3 if we count the Night Gobbo lord mount. The mounted lords do sit there doing nothing (another problem with giving him a mount), but adding the model to the mount still requires alteration as CA mentioned with creating Skink lords riding Cold Ones for the Ikit/Tehenhauin DLC. This also creates a fear for me that if Throt is added they will recycle his model for Master Moulder/Mutators leading to Throt being rendered GENERIC.

    Skarsnik isn't an exception so much as he is a precedent. CA went off the beaten path by making him a dual entity. It hadn't been done before and it hasn't been done since. Needing a unique model and/or animations is not a death sentence. Just because something requires effort doesn't mean it won't happen. We have a Dread Saurian for crying out loud. Besides, what else in this hypothetical pack will soak up resources? Giant Rats and Wolf Rats? Rat Ogre variants? Maybe the Brood Horror could be a little tricky, but it's still just an oversized rat.

    The fact that he didn't have a mount option in the army book means we probably shouldn't assume that mount alteration issues will prevent his inclusion. And if they're going to make a Master Moulder or whatever, it'd be just as easy to base it on a normal Skaven model rather than on Throt, probably easier. You're inventing issues at this point, stop moving the goalposts.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:


    Skarsnik isn't an exception so much as he is a precedent. CA went off the beaten path by making him a dual entity. It hadn't been done before and it hasn't been done since. Needing a unique model and/or animations is not a death sentence. Just because something requires effort doesn't mean it won't happen. We have a Dread Saurian for crying out loud. Besides, what else in this hypothetical pack will soak up resources? Giant Rats and Wolf Rats? Rat Ogre variants? Maybe the Brood Horror could be a little tricky, but it's still just an oversized rat.

    The fact that he didn't have a mount option in the army book means we probably shouldn't assume that mount alteration issues will prevent his inclusion. And if they're going to make a Master Moulder or whatever, it'd be just as easy to base it on a normal Skaven model rather than on Throt, probably easier. You're inventing issues at this point, stop moving the goalposts.

    My goalpost is seeing what the communtiy thinks about this hypothetical LP. I've never stated I think it's cetain just how I feel, though I'm almost certain a Master Moulder/Mutator will be the Lord/Hero. Inventing issues is also something I haven't done. I frame it from the perspective of saving Money. After all, a Sacred Kroxigor is cheaper than a Troglodon and 2 archers is easier than 1 archer and a Hurricanum (not that that's awful or anything). Rat ogre variants depend if they decide to do the Stormfiend variants (please no).


    I don't see Skarsnik as a precedent if it's a one off, though that is a very good example and admittedly I'm incorrect there.

    Resources depend on what the opposing faction would be. If High Elves, than I imagine a Skycutter would soak quite a bit. Of course they could skip it, but I'd rather not have more invented units. Dark Elves would be interesting with what they chose. The Gorgons/Medusa could be difficult but Sepuchral Stalkers would be a fine skeleton.

  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users


    My goalpost is seeing what the communtiy thinks about this hypothetical LP. I've never stated I think it's cetain just how I feel, though I'm almost certain a Master Moulder/Mutator will be the Lord/Hero. Inventing issues is also something I haven't done. I frame it from the perspective of saving Money. After all, a Sacred Kroxigor is cheaper than a Troglodon and 2 archers is easier than 1 archer and a Hurricanum (not that that's awful or anything). Rat ogre variants depend if they decide to do the Stormfiend variants (please no).

    You invented an issue when you said that if it's Throt, you're afraid they'll recycle his model for the Master Moulder/Mutator. The mount thing is also kind of a made up issue since on paper he shouldn't have a mount to begin with.

    Sacred Kroxigor might be cheaper than a Trogldon but a Troglodon would probably have been cheaper than the Dread Saurian.

    I don't see Skarsnik as a precedent if it's a one off, though that is a very good example and admittedly I'm incorrect there.

    That was my point. It's a precedent because it's a one off. Throt could very well be another one off.

    Resources depend on what the opposing faction would be. If High Elves, than I imagine a Skycutter would soak quite a bit. Of course they could skip it, but I'd rather not have more invented units. Dark Elves would be interesting with what they chose. The Gorgons/Medusa could be difficult but Sepuchral Stalkers would be a fine skeleton.

    There's a precedent for that too. PatW included the Salamanders and the Doomflayer, both of which required new rigs and unique animations at the time they were made.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • rafantomasrafantomas Posts: 649Registered Users
    Throt is the best Skaven option, its a given.
  • UberReptilianUberReptilian Posts: 166Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:

    You invented an issue when you said that if it's Throt, you're afraid they'll recycle his model for the Master Moulder/Mutator. The mount thing is also kind of a made up issue since on paper he shouldn't have a mount to begin with.

    Sacred Kroxigor might be cheaper than a Trogldon but a Troglodon would probably have been cheaper than the Dread Saurian.

    Ah OK, the thought process is CA have this weird trend as of late to create "baby" versions of lords as you're aware of, and these tend to stick as close to the LL as possible besides Tehenhauin. Ikit is my prime example as instead of creating a firearm based Arch Warlock akin to the Warlock Engineer TT weapon choices to differentiate them from Ikit, they made them Ikit 2.0. So I evolve that idea into recycle the Throt model to create a bunch of fat, cannibalistic Master Moulder/Mutators. Might be hyperbole, but we'll see, I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

    I'm pleased that we can agree Throt should be mountless, it's one area where the MM Lord could be made very different.
    Since we don't have hard data on production costs we'll have to agree to disagree on the Dread Saurian/Troglodon.
    That was my point. It's a precedent because it's a one off. Throt could very well be another one off.
    The point went right over my small skull. My apologies.
    There's a precedent for that too. PatW included the Salamanders and the Doomflayer, both of which required new rigs and unique animations at the time they were made.
    Doomflayer is definitely true, but in that same DLC they recylced the Salamander for their "Ancient" version.
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