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MUST WATCH ! Gotrek is complete and utter garbage and unusable

Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428
edited October 2019 in General Discussion
Must Watch

CA please fix this is just stupid beyond belief

Link removed as it contains language inappropriate for the forums. You'll need to find this on Legend of Total War's youtube site
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Comments

  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,366
    Meh.

    To be honest I didn't care at first -> Read one of the books -> Got into them -> Am okay with whatever.

    I do agree that they could use some tweaking, and I feel like they should both have been heroes, but it isn't the end of the world.

    No news on the Festag DLC? That IS the end of the world.

    Please, CA... please...
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • RiskafishRiskafish Registered Users Posts: 559
    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 923
    I agree with this video. Gotrek and Felix should be just legendary heroes with own skill trees.
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
  • JycceJycce Registered Users Posts: 262
    Just give Gotrek the possibility to be a general or a hero and everything will be solved.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 19,333
    So are they "unusable" or are they just bad? Which one?
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • WeisskreuzWeisskreuz Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 728
    I'm fine with them not having a skilltree as long as they are not a permanent addition, the AI will just waste skillpoints.

    That said Gotrek should be a hero, it makes no sense at all that he is a lord. Same with Isabella.
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,366
    Riskafish said:

    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.

    Would they have Vlad and Isabella style buffs when together?
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428
    edited October 2019

    So are they "unusable" or are they just bad? Which one?


    Hey i would like to use them but i never will. As far as im concerned gotrek is a waste of space for all reasons as discussed in the video

    You get a 15% extra upkeep penalty for a temporary lord who cant be levelled up. You would be far better off levellin up your own lords for future use instead of wasting that experience on gotrek


    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 19,333

    So are they "unusable" or are they just bad? Which one?


    Hey i would like to use them but i never will. As far as im concerned gotrek is a waste of space for all reasons as discussed in the video

    You get a 15% extra upkeep penalty for a temporary lord who cant be levelled up. You would be far better off levellin up your own lords for future use instead of wasting that experience on gotrek
    You did use it.. It's in your title.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • 42konyo42konyo Registered Users Posts: 783
    Thanks to the mod for referencing the source of the deleted video, these kind of threads are really annoying if just the video get's removed with a generic remark saying it's not suited for the site, at least now the rest of us know what the OP is talking about.
  • hanesdavhanesdav Registered Users Posts: 907
    They are completely useless in campaign. They are only good at weakening player's economy and losing against high level Lords and Heroes. Even if Gotrek is a hero as well 20 turns is not much. Disbanding two units to get them is also bad. Im my opinion developers should make very hard quest battle and Gotrek with Felix should be the reward gained forever.
  • MerciiMercii Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 904
    I was thinking about this and the only reason I could think of for Gotrek being a lord was that the Devs might mechanically need a general for the Gotrek and Felix "faction" when they are not working for the player or another faction.

    A simple way this was implemented might have been to make Gotrek that general. The reason I'm thinking this is because normally a faction can't exist with no Lords or regions . A faction cannot normally have just heroes.


    I'm not sure what the solution to this would be, but surely (If that is the reason) they could make a temporary horde general on the map (Called "Gotrek and Felix") that automatically disbands when you hire them, or some other workaround.

    There is no practical, or Lore reason I can think of for Gotrek to be a Lord, so I'm guessing it must be a mechanical reason, because this was the easiest way to implement him.
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Registered Users Posts: 1,795
    edited October 2019

    So are they "unusable" or are they just bad? Which one?


    Hey i would like to use them but i never will. As far as im concerned gotrek is a waste of space for all reasons as discussed in the video

    You get a 15% extra upkeep penalty for a temporary lord who cant be levelled up. You would be far better off levellin up your own lords for future use instead of wasting that experience on gotrek



    I agree that Gotrek is a rubbish LL. He has no skill points to allocate. It's a no-brainer.

    Btw, the language in Legend's vid is profane on occasion. I have no problem with that, but it breaks the forum rules.
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
    Grom comes. Elves quake. Grom comes. Dragons wake.
  • Firkraag888Firkraag888 Registered Users Posts: 1,428
    hanesdav said:

    They are completely useless in campaign. They are only good at weakening player's economy and losing against high level Lords and Heroes. Even if Gotrek is a hero as well 20 turns is not much. Disbanding two units to get them is also bad. Im my opinion developers should make very hard quest battle and Gotrek with Felix should be the reward gained forever.


    Excactly
  • BorealBoreal Registered Users Posts: 893
    Riskafish said:

    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.

    No that way you wouldn't be able to get them together
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 3,058
    Heh. Legend's poking the hornet's nest again.

    He's right though. Gotrek and Felix would be more fun (and more practical) if you used them as heroes inside your army. That's would be more like mercenaries, which is what CA was aiming for I believe.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,229
    Riskafish said:

    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.

    It's "Gotrek AND Felix" not Gotrek, Felix. It's a package deal.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 19,333
    Fossoway said:

    Heh. Legend's poking the hornet's nest again.

    He's right though. Gotrek and Felix would be more fun (and more practical) if you used them as heroes inside your army. That's would be more like mercenaries, which is what CA was aiming for I believe.

    That'd be practical. Powerful heroes that come at level 40 right off the bat.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 2,878
    Fossoway said:

    Heh. Legend's poking the hornet's nest again.

    He's right though. Gotrek and Felix would be more fun (and more practical) if you used them as heroes inside your army. That's would be more like mercenaries, which is what CA was aiming for I believe.

    Would not say he´s poking anything in this specific instance tbh, he´s spot on telling it how he see it and tbh his reasons are logical beyond approach, CA botched it up with the inclusion of these two fan favorites, witch is really sad considering they got the Legendary entity witch is known as Brian Blessed to voice Gotrek, i really hope that they acknowledge that their take on the two heroes did miss the mark and remade them as proper heroes with skill tree´s and al G&F deserve that tbh.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 8,337
    The rise in G&F discontent correlates well with their increased availability.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 19,333
    RikRiorik said:

    The rise in G&F discontent correlates well with their increased availability.

    Indeed. These flaws weren't exactly hard to spot.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Registered Users Posts: 818
    Gotrek should be a hero.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 8,337
    It is almost like the development process started with ”the Green Knight was a somewhat controversial implementation that was disliked by a lot of people”.

    ...

    ”How can we make sure to refine that kind of implementation to make sure next to no one likes it”?


    I could begrudingly accept the bare bones of the Green Knight variant because I don’t actually mind how the Green Knight functions, perhaps owing to my disinterest in the Bretonnians overall. Just removing Gotrek’s Lord status would do so much for the suckage to dissipate. But the Lord status, limited time and seemingly randomness of use and no skills all taken together are a bit much.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 2,878
    RikRiorik said:

    It is almost like the development process started with ”the Green Knight was a somewhat controversial implementation that was disliked by a lot of people”.

    ...

    ”How can we make sure to refine that kind of implementation to make sure next to no one likes it”?


    I could begrudingly accept the bare bones of the Green Knight variant because I don’t actually mind how the Green Knight functions, perhaps owing to my disinterest in the Bretonnians overall. Just removing Gotrek’s Lord status would do so much for the suckage to dissipate. But the Lord status, limited time and seemingly randomness of use and no skills all taken together are a bit much.

    I would personally prefer to see them implemented like Kroak with proper skill trees and all, maybe have them interact with Thanquol via mechanics/quest´s when our lord and Savior "The Magnificent-Omnipotent One" arrives, for now i would accept if they made them permanent and gave them skill trees, their current implementation is just bad to say the least.
  • ChesterMcGirrChesterMcGirr Registered Users Posts: 657

    Riskafish said:

    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.

    It's "Gotrek AND Felix" not Gotrek, Felix. It's a package deal.
    I suggested elsewhere that Gotrek and Felix should have been put in as a single unit (a la Skarsnik and Gobbla) as a legendary hero. You would get double bang for your buck and it would be easy to justify adding them to one of your armies.

    PS Gobbla's 'ungry!
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 8,726
    CA seems to have learned little from the critisism about the green knight.

    Somehow they implemented Gotrek worse than that. Makes no sense.

    Good video by legend.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • FossowayFossoway Registered Users Posts: 3,058

    Riskafish said:

    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.

    It's "Gotrek AND Felix" not Gotrek, Felix. It's a package deal.
    I suggested elsewhere that Gotrek and Felix should have been put in as a single unit (a la Skarsnik and Gobbla) as a legendary hero. You would get double bang for your buck and it would be easy to justify adding them to one of your armies.

    PS Gobbla's 'ungry!
    It would also look clunky. Did you notice how odd it looks when Skarsnik and Gobbla turn around? I'd prefer G&F stays as separate units personally.
  • AkiAmazAkiAmaz Registered Users Posts: 337
    G & F. Meh. I was never that bothered to start.

    Anyhow, a good video and well pointed out by the OP.

    The edit to redirect to the site is well done.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Registered Users Posts: 2,331
    edited October 2019

    Riskafish said:

    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.

    It's "Gotrek AND Felix" not Gotrek, Felix. It's a package deal.
    I suggested elsewhere that Gotrek and Felix should have been put in as a single unit (a la Skarsnik and Gobbla) as a legendary hero. You would get double bang for your buck and it would be easy to justify adding them to one of your armies.

    PS Gobbla's 'ungry!
    Hell no, that would be the worst ever implementation ever, glad they are seperate.How are you going to stat two wildly different fighters?

    But they could be still tied to each other, so when you pick one you are forced to pick the other too. I too wish they seperated Skarsnik and Gobbla like this, they are also supposed to be pretty different in combat; one is a goblin with AL weapon, other is a huge Squig which is a large entity, anti-infantry and supposed to be faster.

    CA seems to have learned little from the critisism about the green knight.

    Somehow they implemented Gotrek worse than that. Makes no sense.

    Good video by legend.

    FLC bullet is hard to dodge even for Gotrek.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,229
    edited October 2019

    Riskafish said:

    They could make Gotrex a Dwarf Hero and Felix a Empire Hero. The it would be a reward for people who are playing co-op campaigns.

    It's "Gotrek AND Felix" not Gotrek, Felix. It's a package deal.
    I suggested elsewhere that Gotrek and Felix should have been put in as a single unit (a la Skarsnik and Gobbla) as a legendary hero. You would get double bang for your buck and it would be easy to justify adding them to one of your armies.

    PS Gobbla's 'ungry!
    Felix is a fair bit more of an individual compared to Gobbla...

    Skarsnik and Gobbla were 1 model

    Gotrek and Felix:



    2
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
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