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Why Gotrek and Felix don't have a Skill Tree?

Arcani_4_EverArcani_4_Ever Junior MemberPosts: 2,279Registered Users
i was expecting them to be similar to the Green Knight, and be a Max Level sort of Lord/Hero that you get for a short time.

The fact they don't have a Skill Tree, personally makes them weaker IMO. Specially Gotrek.

As he doesn't bring bonuses to units (the least i expect him was to give a big morale buff to everyone)

And most importantly, no Civic Tree, means this army will always come at full cost.

And this game is not the type of game where you can have countless armies, unlike other Total War games.

I feel they are good in the Battlefield. But in Campaign they don't bring anything special and in fact hit your economy quite hard.

Comments

  • 42konyo42konyo Posts: 775Registered Users
    Wish they where legendary heroes, Kroak for example is a great addition to any campaign yet G&F are nothing more than a gimmick on high/VH/Legendary difficulty due to the added supply lines cost, they could even have an upkeep of 1000 each and they'd still be more viable then they are now.
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,241Registered Users
    You can't roll with a LL who only sticks around for 20 turns and can't specialise to buff your troops. It was a bad idea. I love seeing them, but this is just a novelty that results in more of a hindrance than a boon to your playthrough.

    It's a gimmick. A cool gimmick, but not one that fits with the way I like to play this game. Red lines and blue lines of your general's skill tree matter a great deal in a campaign. Gotrek is effectively a lord with nothing but yellow skills and no customisation.
  • 42konyo42konyo Posts: 775Registered Users

    You can't roll with a LL who only sticks around for 20 turns and can't specialise to buff your troops. It was a bad idea. I love seeing them, but this is just a novelty that results in more of a hindrance than a boon to your playthrough.

    It's a gimmick. A cool gimmick, but not one that fits with the way I like to play this game. Red lines and blue lines of your general's skill tree matter a great deal in a campaign. Gotrek is effectively a lord with nothing but yellow skills and no customisation.

    I don't mean any disrespect towards CA with this but there's a lot of things in warhammer 2 that give me the idea that they never play/test/design anything above normal difficulty, there's a lot of design choices that just don't make any sense when you play on hard and double so much when you play on VH/Legendary, things like AI public order bonuses making inciting rebellions near impossible, AI army builds in the late game and rites like the LM rite that spawns a "free" army that adds to supply lines (just like the black arks at launch) just to name a few but there's many many more things that either don't work on higher difficulties or promote a very monotone playstyle, something that older total war titles didn't suffer of in my experience.

    G&F just seems like the latest example of this, it's a nice addition to the game and if you're playing a casual campaign on normal you could probably use them and enjoy them for offering something new, but redline skills are a must have to balance out AI buffs on everything above hard.
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,241Registered Users
    42konyo said:

    You can't roll with a LL who only sticks around for 20 turns and can't specialise to buff your troops. It was a bad idea. I love seeing them, but this is just a novelty that results in more of a hindrance than a boon to your playthrough.

    It's a gimmick. A cool gimmick, but not one that fits with the way I like to play this game. Red lines and blue lines of your general's skill tree matter a great deal in a campaign. Gotrek is effectively a lord with nothing but yellow skills and no customisation.

    I don't mean any disrespect towards CA with this but there's a lot of things in warhammer 2 that give me the idea that they never play/test/design anything above normal difficulty, there's a lot of design choices that just don't make any sense when you play on hard and double so much when you play on VH/Legendary, things like AI public order bonuses making inciting rebellions near impossible, AI army builds in the late game and rites like the LM rite that spawns a "free" army that adds to supply lines (just like the black arks at launch) just to name a few but there's many many more things that either don't work on higher difficulties or promote a very monotone playstyle, something that older total war titles didn't suffer of in my experience.

    G&F just seems like the latest example of this, it's a nice addition to the game and if you're playing a casual campaign on normal you could probably use them and enjoy them for offering something new, but redline skills are a must have to balance out AI buffs on everything above hard.
    If they really playtested the **** out of this stuff, I feel the people doing it didn't have a suitably critical eye. I couldn't agree more about the Warhammer 2 track record. In game 1, it was more excusable with a brand new product. People should know what to expect by now.

    Surely, if you want to playtest something, you need to park the enthusiasm and be the detached player for a while. Then play the bad guy cynic trying to hate on or break things.
  • BronzebeardBronzebeard Posts: 190Registered Users
    G&F just reinforced me when I took Karak 8 Peaks with Belegar. It felt loreful and fun, but now I cant wait for them to leave...
  • Bogdanov89Bogdanov89 Posts: 594Registered Users
    Gotrek should be a hero - he was never a lord.
    Check out the Community Bug Fix Mod on the Steam Workshop.
  • SchepelSchepel Senior Member Posts: 1,502Registered Users
    Really would have liked to play with them, but I can't afford them. Playing the Empire, you can't afford lords that don't have blue upgrades. I can just about make do without the red upgrades on VH, but I need lightning strike and the decreased upkeep very badly.

    I quite agree they should have been heroes rather than lords.
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,376Registered Users

    Gotrek should be a hero - he was never a lord.

    Yep, the only Slayer Lord there is and there shall be is Ungrim.
  • ArsenicArsenic Posts: 4,592Registered Users
    My understanding was that difficulty levels above Hard were nothing more than AI bonuses and player debuffs anyway, so what does it matter if Gotrek and Felix are more hindrance than help?

    Playing on Legendary from what I've seen of it is nothing more than exploiting game flaws as ruthlessly as possible.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • 42konyo42konyo Posts: 775Registered Users
    Arsenic said:

    My understanding was that difficulty levels above Hard were nothing more than AI bonuses and player debuffs anyway, so what does it matter if Gotrek and Felix are more hindrance than help?

    Playing on Legendary from what I've seen of it is nothing more than exploiting game flaws as ruthlessly as possible.

    Not really, it's just that a lot of options/playstyles aren't viable, you're supposed to use every tool available (like block army movement and scouting, I see a lot of people commenting here that they never use hero's besides embedding them in armies) and things like the red skill tree being a must to be on par with the buffed AI units, but exploiting game flaws really isn't necessary unless it's to avoid bugs and things like that.
  • ChristianT82ChristianT82 Posts: 53Registered Users
    they Need inventory not skill tree
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