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Should Chaos Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes be units, lords or heroes?

DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior MemberPosts: 400Registered Users
edited October 20 in General Discussion
Give your thoughts

Comments

  • RiskafishRiskafish Posts: 332Registered Users
    They could make it so that your LL can do a quest (ritual) to turn themselves into Daemon Princes once they reach a certain level.

    Greater Daemons are normally named like Nkaari so I imagine Legendary hero or lord would make more sense. I also think that they should be rare due to their immense power which would make them unsuitable as units.
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,579Registered Users
    They were Lord choices in TT so they should be so too in TW.
  • Sir_GodspeedSir_Godspeed Posts: 1,579Registered Users
    There are already Daemon Heralds to serve as Heroes, btw.
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Posts: 2,381Registered Users
    edited October 20
    DoC arymbook
    Lords: Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes
    Heroes: Heralds

    Daemon Princes are a no brainer. Heralds should be Lords/Heroes, since we most likely will get some special char herald like Skulltaker probably as LL anyway.
    Greater Daemons are a bit tricky. In theory they should be rare choices similar to other powerful monsters unlocked by some costly building chain. But they can, and probably will, also function as Lords and special chars like Ku'gath as LLs. The main problem here is their raw power, which just gets bigger as LL or Lord through the skill system. I have nothing against them being powerful, but we all know the real problem with TWW: People will end up packing the best units for their money. To demonstrate with Count Noctilus

    Granted, for the single player experience that is not that much of a problem. Except we all know that the AI sometimes also starts dropping hardcore armies. When I see 4 dragons in a Highelf stack, I probably have to be glad it's only four, but four are already a lot of trouble. Funny coincidence, in my current game I just met a Phoenix zoo

    So when I imagine stacks full of greater Daemons, like for example controlling 8 Bloodthirster [for those who not know: huge armored flying melee murder machines], then I rather hope that CA will install some countermeasures besides the raw upkeep cost.

    Also noteworthy, while the armybook only has "Greater Daemons", which as mentioned will included either way in the DoC race, Storm of Magic had Exalted version for all four variants which were bigger and more powerful.


    "The (horrible) Endtimes" later picked up on that and offered for teh Bloodthirster three versions

    There is no way to know if CA migth take that into account and maybe Exalted greater Daemons might be some building unit, while a regular greater Daemon would be a Lord choice. And without knowing how CA for example might integrate the dependency on magic, or how the first armyroster draft might look [with some units hold pack for at least one rival DLC, like always] it's hard to speculate on things.

    ------Red Dox
    Post edited by Red_Dox on
  • mightygloinmightygloin Posts: 1,368Registered Users
    @Red_Dox man those daemons have some truly sick stats. Hope they don't get nerfed in implementation for some petty gameplay reasons.
  • DaGangsterDaGangster Junior Member Posts: 890Registered Users
    It should be rather obvious they will be lords anything else would be unbalanced or underpowered.

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  • WyvaxWyvax Posts: 1,912Registered Users

    It should be rather obvious they will be lords anything else would be unbalanced or underpowered.

    I'd go so far as to say you'd need to unlock each one like Slann just to avoid an overabundance of them.
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  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Posts: 1,776Registered Users
    Why on Earth would Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons be any thing else than Lord choices?..
  • angry_rat_loverangry_rat_lover Posts: 793Registered Users
    Lordssss
    Soon
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Posts: 951Registered Users
    Red_Dox said:

    DoC arymbook
    Lords: Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes
    Heroes: Heralds

    Daemon Princes are a no brainer. Heralds should be Lords/Heroes, since we most likely will get some special char herald like Skulltaker probably as LL anyway.
    Greater Daemons are a bit tricky. In theory they should be rare choices similar to other powerful monsters unlocked by some costly building chain. But they can, and probably will, also function as Lords and special chars like Ku'gath as LLs. The main problem here is their raw power, which just gets bigger as LL or Lord through the skill system. I have nothing against them being powerful, but we all know the real problem with TWW: People will end up packing the best units for their money. To demonstrate with Count Noctilus

    Granted, for the single player experience that is not that much of a problem. Except we all know that the AI sometimes also starts dropping hardcore armies. When I see 4 dragons in a Highelf stack, I probably have to be glad it's only four, but four are already a lot of trouble. Funny coincidence, in my current game I just met a Phoenix zoo

    So when I imagine stacks full of greater Daemons, like for example controlling 8 Bloodthirster [for those who not know: huge armored flying melee murder machines], then I rather hope that CA will install some countermeasures besides the raw upkeep cost.

    Also noteworthy, while the armybook only has "Greater Daemons", which as mentioned will included either way in the DoC race, Storm of Magic had Exalted version for all four variants which were bigger and more powerful.


    "The (horrible) Endtimes" later picked up on that and offered for teh Bloodthirster three versions

    There is no way to know if CA migth take that into account and maybe Exalted greater Daemons might be some building unit, while a regular greater Daemon would be a Lord choice. And without knowing how CA for example might integrate the dependency on magic, or how the first armyroster draft might look [with some units hold pack for at least one rival DLC, like always] it's hard to speculate on things.

    ------Red Dox

    I'm guessing greater demons would only be lords, it would best represent their role in TT. It would also limit their number, so you would never see doomstacks with 20 greater demons.

    As for the exalted ones, I doubt they will be in as an own thing. Unique greater demons like N'kari, Kugath, Skarbrand or Kairos will fill their role as being even more powerful than normal greater demons though.
  • Ben1990Ben1990 Posts: 49Registered Users
    Red_Dox said:

    DoC arymbook
    Lords: Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes
    Heroes: Heralds

    Daemon Princes are a no brainer. Heralds should be Lords/Heroes, since we most likely will get some special char herald like Skulltaker probably as LL anyway.
    Greater Daemons are a bit tricky. In theory they should be rare choices similar to other powerful monsters unlocked by some costly building chain. But they can, and probably will, also function as Lords and special chars like Ku'gath as LLs. The main problem here is their raw power, which just gets bigger as LL or Lord through the skill system. I have nothing against them being powerful, but we all know the real problem with TWW: People will end up packing the best units for their money. To demonstrate with Count Noctilus

    Granted, for the single player experience that is not that much of a problem. Except we all know that the AI sometimes also starts dropping hardcore armies. When I see 4 dragons in a Highelf stack, I probably have to be glad it's only four, but four are already a lot of trouble. Funny coincidence, in my current game I just met a Phoenix zoo

    So when I imagine stacks full of greater Daemons, like for example controlling 8 Bloodthirster [for those who not know: huge armored flying melee murder machines], then I rather hope that CA will install some countermeasures besides the raw upkeep cost.

    Also noteworthy, while the armybook only has "Greater Daemons", which as mentioned will included either way in the DoC race, Storm of Magic had Exalted version for all four variants which were bigger and more powerful.


    "The (horrible) Endtimes" later picked up on that and offered for teh Bloodthirster three versions

    There is no way to know if CA migth take that into account and maybe Exalted greater Daemons might be some building unit, while a regular greater Daemon would be a Lord choice. And without knowing how CA for example might integrate the dependency on magic, or how the first armyroster draft might look [with some units hold pack for at least one rival DLC, like always] it's hard to speculate on things.

    ------Red Dox

    There is a simple way. Make Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes into hard-capped units like Dread Saurians or a crushing majority of the Tomb Kings roster (especially the constructs) that you can get after building the proper building chain (that and the more you have them the more you get them). Then we have the whole Exalted versions of them. Make the named characters like Be'Lakor, Ka'Bandha and such into Exalted Greater Daemons and Exalted Daemon Princes. Then we have the generic versions of them. The former being more specialized, while the latter weaker but more versatile and can become nearly as powerful as the former with the right bonuses unlocked. Also would act like the generic Tomb Kings as the total amount of them are hard-capped and you can increase the numbers by enacting rituals for that.
  • Aram_theheadAram_thehead Posts: 829Registered Users
    edited October 20
    Daemon princes should be lords. I think it would be better if the player had to make a quest to make one of his lords ascend to daemonhood.

    If I'm not mistaken, one could have greater daemons as both units or lords in TT, so maybe to implement this CA could do 2 greater daemon variants.
    Bloodthirsters = Unit
    Exalted bloodthirster= lord

    I would not hardcap these powerful untis. I would prefer soft caps, that penalize me if I spam them, but don't necessarily prevent me from doing it altogether.
  • Arcani_4_EverArcani_4_Ever Junior Member Posts: 2,277Registered Users
    edited October 21
    They should be exactly what they are in Table Top.

    Lord Characters.

    GW created some versions that could be used as monsters (Korgoraths for Khorne) for example. And i can accept that as a monster unit. But a Bloodthirster should be an Lord Type unit.

    Exalted Bloodthirsters could be used as Heroes or Monsters. But personally i rather keep Lesser Daemon Heralds as the Hero unit and Korgoraths as the Monster Version.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 5,807Registered Users
    Definitely lords.

    I think there is some argument for them appearing as units as well. If you had an army as large as a 20-slot stack on tabletop, even with the smallest unit sizes, you'd probably be able to bring multiple Lord choices, something which the TWW mechanic doesn't really allow. So I think it's reasonable for it to be possible to have multiple Greater Demons in one army.

    Probably worthwhile having a cap on the total number of non-lord Greater Demons available a la Dread Saurians, however.
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 233Registered Users
    no mortal should be placed into the shoes of demons





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