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Depth guard all glass, no cannon

BJ3056BJ3056 Posts: 34Registered Users
I’ve mired my way through previous discussions and players saying they are just fine only see them in the optimum match ups and don’t want to listen to players who say they have very few and almost no optimum match ups.

I do believe they perform well with supporting units to take the blows.

I believe they need better stats because the norscan berserker ROR can beat them 7/10 match ups. At 150 less cost but also couldn’t ask for a much more fitting unit to display their niche prowess. They hit their healing cap way soon which means they have no MD to even keep them on the field. Their blood drinker (when it outpaces the current combat or IoN) slams into that health wall well before the battle is over because they don’t mow chaff down. It’s like using a scissors to cut a lawn. It might work but the scissors take dmg, hit their heal cap, and break.

Or two units of flagellants taking them to pound town.

One said they could be every unit in the green skins roster except Blacks. Well So, the next most expensive units is 900. 300 less than the cheaper DG.

Bringing their cost down would be another way to improve them. Leave everything the same just drop their cost by 100 maybe 150 if they want them to shine

Quotes such as “they are a flanking unit, that’s where they perform”. Yeah every unit performs better on the flank. A unit of zombies might bring down a chosen model with a rear charge. That’s not an argument.

They don’t have enough health and MD to stay in combat for them to hack units and they don’t barrel through units like a berserker unit either. I imagine Abraham Lincoln vampire slayer when they units enter the fray. Absolutely brutal when they reach combat. But a few rounds of silver bullets will truly break their glass hides.

I ask they be made more brutal or more durable. Truly glass cannon or anchor. But this lukewarm spot isn’t working. And makes me want to spit them out of my roster. They are so cool that I don’t want to. But pick a side.
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Comments

  • ystyst Posts: 6,073Registered Users
    edited October 21
    Pretty much sums up trash guard. Still holds the #1 worst elite inf spot in game, I dont even get those garnage chaff killer nonsensical excuse, they struggle like crazy hard just dealing with 3x swordsman, pretty much got rekt by them lol.

    Its just an extremely bad unit, 0 reason to ever bring them when a hulk + halberd zombies costs LESS than trash guard. The trash guard halberd is even more shocking, I dont think theres any worse infantry in game than them

    All glass 0 cannon, theres literally not a single reason why any1 would ever pick them, I would rather buy 3x bloated corpse before ever considering brining a single trash guard. They have like almost 3,000 less hp than chosen -30 less armor, no silver shield, -29 less def lol... I dont even know what to compare them with, its just too rubbish.

    They have absolutely no role in the roster whatsoever, hulks & mourngul totally overwrites them completely and r the go-to unit for replacement
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  • Lord_DistamorfinLord_Distamorfin Posts: 438Registered Users
    Anyone remember what their stats were when they first appeared? I know they were pretty good in their first showing before they got nerfed into the ground.
  • FossowayFossoway Posts: 2,225Registered Users
    Gotta disagree here. Every units may perform better on the flanks, but Depth Guards are probably the best flankers in the game. That's the whole point of them, they kill fast but don't take hits. If you're charging them head first into battle, then you're doing it wrong and shouldn't be surprised if they get wrecked.

    They are a risk vs reward unit, and a main priority target if you're playing against VCoast. Easy to pick apart by focus fire or multiple squad of enemies, but ignore them or leave them unchallenged and they'll absolutely destroy your team, raking hundreds of kills in the process.

    Depth Guards with Halberds are kinda in a weird spot, I'll give you that, but the dual weapon variant is godlike if used properly.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,073Registered Users
    edited October 21
    Seriously u would throw $1200 away just for flanking duties? Who the heck even come up with this nonsense, come on, any unit can flank. Im not buying it for a second any1 would use $1200 trash guard to flank when u got stalking mourngul at $1000 who get the job done better

    Buying trashguard in the first place is already playing the game wrong tbh

    Anyone remember what their stats were when they first appeared? I know they were pretty good in their first showing before they got nerfed into the ground.

    There were at least something like 30% stronger which prolly would suit the $1200 price tag. Worst elite inf in game, executioners steamroll them like stray dogs on roadkill for the exact same price.

    Theres no unit like them, thats what makes them so damn useless, nothing more than an asurdly overglorified corsairs. Unit like trash guard have no place in this game, no shield, insanely low hp, seriously bad stats, ppl gotta remember they r 45 models, executioners r frikking 75, that 67% more
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  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,388Registered Users
    Everchosen Statline was:

    - HP 4950
    - Armour 100
    - LD 65
    - MA 64
    - MD 39
    - WS 64
    - CB 30

    So compared to now they had:

    - +45 HP
    - +10 Armour
    - +5 LD
    - +15 MA
    - +8 MD
    - +5 CB

    Now and apparently these guys were soloing chosen when they first came out, which does seem kind of bs considering they aren't dedicated AP. But they were definitely overnerfed, imo they should get back the 10 armour, the 5 LD, 5 MA, 3 MD. This would make them less vulnerable to arrows, less likelynrp crumble, better damage output and defence.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,073Registered Users
    edited October 21
    Such trash stats cant justify $1200 tbh. Like jeebus, they r more expensive than blk orks lol....

    Their main problem lies in their armament. Sword and shield r holding/defensive. Great wep r obviously ap smashing. That leaves u the 3rd kind, dual wield which r very, very dps oriented. These guys arent.

    No way in hell should these guys ever costs more than blk orks and put into the same league as executioners, seriously $50 more ure paying for chosens. They r even +$100 more expensive than hammerers, like come onnnnn
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  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Posts: 4,113Registered Users
    yst said:

    Such trash stats cant justify $1200 tbh.

    Like jeebus, they r more expensive than blk orks lol....

    That's actually a good point. These guys are at cream of the crop price tag but are capable of about 3/4ths that value in the best of cases. I'd like them to get a bit more of their melee prowess back, that would likely help a lot.
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  • ystyst Posts: 6,073Registered Users
    edited October 21
    Swordmasters, exe 75 models $1250 $1200
    Chosens, blk orks 60 models $1250, $1150
    Trash guards 45 models $1200 (LOL)

    Pretty much implies they r elitier than chosens or put swordmasters to shame. In reality swordmasters obliterate and butchered half of these trash guards before charge bonus fades lol
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  • ViktorTWWforumViktorTWWforum Posts: 1,082Registered Users
    OrkLads said:

    Everchosen Statline was:

    - HP 4950
    - Armour 100
    - LD 65
    - MA 64
    - MD 39
    - WS 64
    - CB 30

    So compared to now they had:

    - +45 HP
    - +10 Armour
    - +5 LD
    - +15 MA
    - +8 MD
    - +5 CB

    Now and apparently these guys were soloing chosen when they first came out, which does seem kind of bs considering they aren't dedicated AP. But they were definitely overnerfed, imo they should get back the 10 armour, the 5 LD, 5 MA, 3 MD. This would make them less vulnerable to arrows, less likelynrp crumble, better damage output and defence.

    Soloing Chosen ? Arent you overboard ? As I remember they were outstanding vs VC in one game were they trashed Grave Guard like babies, but even than it was match were Aerocrastic crushed Halberd variant with his then-newly-buffed Mammoth. Nerfs were neede but slightly overboard.
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,388Registered Users

    OrkLads said:

    Everchosen Statline was:

    - HP 4950
    - Armour 100
    - LD 65
    - MA 64
    - MD 39
    - WS 64
    - CB 30

    So compared to now they had:

    - +45 HP
    - +10 Armour
    - +5 LD
    - +15 MA
    - +8 MD
    - +5 CB

    Now and apparently these guys were soloing chosen when they first came out, which does seem kind of bs considering they aren't dedicated AP. But they were definitely overnerfed, imo they should get back the 10 armour, the 5 LD, 5 MA, 3 MD. This would make them less vulnerable to arrows, less likelynrp crumble, better damage output and defence.

    Soloing Chosen ? Arent you overboard ? As I remember they were outstanding vs VC in one game were they trashed Grave Guard like babies, but even than it was match were Aerocrastic crushed Halberd variant with his then-newly-buffed Mammoth. Nerfs were neede but slightly overboard.
    Just repeating what players were saying at the time, this was done in testing not what was shown in Everchosen.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 1,297Registered Users
    yst said:

    Pretty much sums up trash guard. Still holds the #1 worst elite inf spot in game, I dont even get those garnage chaff killer nonsensical excuse, they struggle like crazy hard just dealing with 3x swordsman, pretty much got rekt by them lol.

    Its just an extremely bad unit, 0 reason to ever bring them when a hulk + halberd zombies costs LESS than trash guard. The trash guard halberd is even more shocking, I dont think theres any worse infantry in game than them

    All glass 0 cannon, theres literally not a single reason why any1 would ever pick them, I would rather buy 3x bloated corpse before ever considering brining a single trash guard. They have like almost 3,000 less hp than chosen -30 less armor, no silver shield, -29 less def lol... I dont even know what to compare them with, its just too rubbish.

    They have absolutely no role in the roster whatsoever, hulks & mourngul totally overwrites them completely and r the go-to unit for replacement

    everytime you say trashguard I will give you a like, I love it.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 1,297Registered Users
    edited October 21
    I wonder how they would go if you increased their armour to 110, after all they are essentially bloodknights; it makes sense to have heavy armour. It would make their regen more valuable and they would become exponentially better vs chaff and basic archers.
    yst said:

    Swordmasters, exe 75 models $1250 $1200
    Chosens, blk orks 60 models $1250, $1150
    Trash guards 45 models $1200 (LOL)

    Pretty much implies they r elitier than chosens or put swordmasters to shame. In reality swordmasters obliterate and butchered half of these trash guards before charge bonus fades lol

    but I think this is the point of the unit, they should lose hard to elite AP infantry, especially anti infantry specialists. Trashguard should be more of a crazy chaff destroyer and tank unit. At least that's what I think CA designed them as.
  • Aventus_MaximusAventus_Maximus Posts: 244Registered Users
    Loupi_ said:

    I wonder how they would go if you increased their armour to 110, after all they are essentially bloodknights; it makes sense to have heavy armour. It would make their regen more valuable and they would become exponentially better vs chaff and basic archers.


    yst said:

    Swordmasters, exe 75 models $1250 $1200
    Chosens, blk orks 60 models $1250, $1150
    Trash guards 45 models $1200 (LOL)

    Pretty much implies they r elitier than chosens or put swordmasters to shame. In reality swordmasters obliterate and butchered half of these trash guards before charge bonus fades lol

    but I think this is the point of the unit, they should lose hard to elite AP infantry, especially anti infantry specialists. Trashguard should be more of a crazy chaff destroyer and tank unit. At least that's what I think CA designed them as.
    Well that is certainly how the've come over in single player…. especially in 1 vs 1 situations with Bretonnia where you already needed half of your knights to deal with those crabs and walking shipwrecks…. there healing mechanic kicking back in around 30% just when you thought they where finished… but this is pre nerf i'm talking about.

    the nerf is maybe better perceived when taking the entire pirate coast line into mind





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  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,684Registered Users
    Overpriced
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • SarmatiansSarmatians Posts: 3,248Registered Users
    OrkLads said:

    Everchosen Statline was:

    - HP 4950
    - Armour 100
    - LD 65
    - MA 64
    - MD 39
    - WS 64
    - CB 30

    So compared to now they had:

    - +45 HP
    - +10 Armour
    - +5 LD
    - +15 MA
    - +8 MD
    - +5 CB

    Now and apparently these guys were soloing chosen when they first came out, which does seem kind of bs considering they aren't dedicated AP. But they were definitely overnerfed, imo they should get back the 10 armour, the 5 LD, 5 MA, 3 MD. This would make them less vulnerable to arrows, less likelynrp crumble, better damage output and defence.

    Just be careful about throwing around buffs like that because of hunger. Win more -> heal more -> win even more ->...

    That is why they were winning against chosen. When Chosen fight them, they need to kill not just 1 unit, but potentiall 1.6 units of Depth Guard. That is excluding any chaff or neheks. So, you need to kill them quickly as any delay leads to a positive loop for depth guard. So, buff them too much, and you get again into position where they kill elites.

    They seem to envisaged as holding infantry, and they perform that role rather well. Support them and they will hold for a very long time and they are basically impervious to chaff, which just offers them a chance to heal up.
    So, they need to be vulnerable to elite infantry.
  • AerocrasticAerocrastic Posts: 383Registered Users

    Anyone remember what their stats were when they first appeared? I know they were pretty good in their first showing before they got nerfed into the ground.

    60 something 40 something
    RoR was 70/60ish

    This version was far, far too powerful.


    I don't want to talk about this too much since these kinds of discussions tend not to go anywhere, but factions with units that vary from the usual core of their roster tend to be overpriced. Let me throw some examples out there.

    Skaven- Not Elite, Not Armored (typically)
    Doomwheel-> compare its DPS to other chariot-like units and single entity chariots, it's overpriced by at least 150, but with 100 armor and terror it is useful to the roster.
    Stormvermin-> stats are worth maybe 900? Costs 1050. 90 Armor isn't really that heavy, and 60 leadership is also quite crap for a unit this expensive too, but it beats the heck out of units cheaper than it and can be supported to help trade even (sounds familiar?)

    Empire- Infantry not Elite, Cavalry heavily armored
    Greatswords-> Pretty mediocre for 900 as a specialist anti infantry unit. Beats chaos warriors with great weapons narrowly at 850, but this unit is universally useful and more resistant to large units than greatswords are. 95 Armor is great for them since all other infantry is 30 or 0
    Reiksguard-> Empire knights but a little bit tankier. Blazing Suns are more cost effective for only 50 more and much more lethal, however when Empire plays defensively, having a defensive cavalry that has decent damage output becomes more useful. This unit is probably only worth 1000 or 1050 but at 1150 they're still useful to the Empire.

    Lizardmen- Tanky infantry, heavily armored monsters, medium mobility
    Skink Cohort-> worst infantry in its class by stats, but is pretty fast. This is like a half hound unit for Lizardmen and otherwise is a meat shield for the monsters. Men at Arms (250) beat these at 300, clanrats do too, spearmen do too. Great for chasing down/pressuring missile units or adding width to your army. These two usually go hand in hand.


    I'm not saying that Depth Guard aren't bad for their cost: they are, but you have to consider how useful certain units are to their respective rosters when considering cost. My main hesitation to buffing them is that the relative lack of strength of this unit is not contributing to the failure of the roster. If we buff Depth Guard, then let's buff Stormvermin (both types), Reiksguard, Skink Cohort, Doomwheels, etc etc.

    Go this route and every faction will be the same. This is why going across factions and rosters there is no fair comparison. Chaos and Vampire Coast are such wildly different rosters that comparing Chosen to Depth Guard makes absolutely no sense. Skaven and Vampirates are most alike each other right now, but even between the two of them there are still many differences. Vermintide can't be overcast for a unit of Night Runner Slingers for starters.

    To give the OP credit where due, they really don't fit in with a loreful description and are a bit unwieldy, but in the hands of experienced players they are very problematic to deal with and can be difficult to isolate due to summons and chaff infantry all over the place. It's a unit that supports an army but isn't the star of it. Design-wise, this is probably the most balanced role for them. I guess I might propose adding more buffs to them in campaign through red skill tree options so that they can become a doom stack worthy unit, but otherwise this is something that really requires a scalpel. CA totally f-ed up the balance of their faction from the start, so you have to be careful with these things where they are.
  • ParmigianoParmigiano Posts: 750Registered Users
    60 each unit solves it, CA thought they were cav.
  • BJ3056BJ3056 Posts: 34Registered Users
    That’s why I’m thinking they either need to be a glass cannon or anchor. Definitely not both. Keep the low health and low MD but make it so when they hit its devastating. The way you’d need to beat them is charge them down or missile them to death like chosen.

    Or go the anchor route. Make them an infantry anchor. Only armored infantry in the VCoa roster. Fulfill an iron breaker like role. Steady damage as they hold buying time for the missiles and artillery to do work.

    This Luke warm stuff ain’t happening. They already are an attempt to copy norscan berserkers so make them the super human vampire berserkers they should be.

    Best scenario, DG are glass cannon, DGal are anchor. This gives the roster nice push and pull.

    I don’t buy the all the rosters will be the same stick.
    Mankind has nothing like a dragon. Undead don’t route, the monster variance in the game alone assures that the factions have clearly defined uniqueness along with their strengths and weaknesses.

    I think that justice needs to be done just for the design and care that went into these units. It’s not the same as taking a zombie skin (With more piratey clothes and putting a musket in its hands.

    I think the factions should really shadow an undead wood elves theme. Lore wise they ambush at sea. They isolate themselves. They are missile centric with some glass cannon melee

    the wood elves use trees and eternal guard to hold the line while the VCoa use crabs and depth guard. Many similarities yet entirely different approaches to similar playstyles
  • PussyslayerXDDPussyslayerXDD Posts: 24Registered Users
    Since Vcoast has plenty of tools to deal with elite and precious target (just pump em full of lead) i'd like to see GG pushed into the ultimate elite anti-chaff unit, but still easily counterable by focused fire or armored AI, what about increasing their splash damage to clear chaff and low armored units in general faster?

    The halberd version is just depressing to look at, overpriced and useless, their ror version it's really a wasted slot and would take the crown for worse unit in the roster if it wasnt for the hand grenade bats.

    If i recall, they smashed easily withces and withces ror and also beat sisters of slaughter, so at least they have a niche against DE if anything, since those seems to be a popular pick against VC.

    If no changes to stats were made, the safest and easiest route would be a price decrease of 100 or more, still a questionable choice to pick them, but at least a cheaper one.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,781Registered Users
    What makes them good is that bringing elites vs VP is a very stupid idea, and they specialise at killing non elites.

    If you want buffa to them you need to done down some of the VP guns.

    Halberd are a separate issue and could use a direct buff or -50g
  • ZeblaskyZeblasky Posts: 441Registered Users
    Depth Guard indeed feel on the up side. The only place where DG feels powerful enough is versus Vampire Counts funnily enough, and only the version with halberds. VC infantry does not really threaten them, no things to shoot at them and DG with halberds are just brutal versus monsters. They are also fine versus Brettonia, but that's pretty much it.

    I'd say there are a few small problems with Depth guard, that together make them not a good unit.
    1) Base version stats are not that impressive and Halberd version is extremely specialised in AL role.
    2) Their armor and heath make them very suseptible even to basic archer fire. If they get focused down by ranged, no matter how many summons protect them, they go down fast. Only Nehek can save them for a time.

    I do disagree though that DG reach healing cap very quicky. Sometimes sure, when you have to use Nehek again and again, but it's not really an issue. But, even if we consider what roster are they in, after the recent Deckhands pretty severe nerf DP definetly deserve a small buff.

    I'd start with +10 armor to all versions, 2-3 MD to the base version and rebalance the halberd version a bit to have less AL but a bit better MA and AP damage
  • ystyst Posts: 6,073Registered Users
    Loupi_ said:


    everytime you say trashguard I will give you a like, I love it.

    So fitting isnt it, i really cant call them anything else, its like its a huge part of their personality now. Sometime things just click nicely, this is one of those

    Cant imagine these trash guards costing more than bestigors and blk orks, that just ridiculous. Their performance is no where near that.

    60 each unit solves it, CA thought they were cav.

    That would immediately solve this horrifically bad unit. Its frikking insane they have lower model than chosens, who owns them so, so, so frikking bad
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  • DeludeDelude Posts: 299Registered Users
    Seldkam said:

    yst said:

    Such trash stats cant justify $1200 tbh.

    Like jeebus, they r more expensive than blk orks lol....

    That's actually a good point. These guys are at cream of the crop price tag but are capable of about 3/4ths that value in the best of cases. I'd like them to get a bit more of their melee prowess back, that would likely help a lot.
    yst said:

    Swordmasters, exe 75 models $1250 $1200
    Chosens, blk orks 60 models $1250, $1150
    Trash guards 45 models $1200 (LOL)

    Pretty much implies they r elitier than chosens or put swordmasters to shame. In reality swordmasters obliterate and butchered half of these trash guards before charge bonus fades lol

    Chaos, DE, and GS are factions designed around strong infantry. VP are designed around guns and artillery. 1200g does not buy you the same value of infantry in these comparisons, unless you want to give Chaos access to handguns. (You don't).

    That said, Depth Guard are pretty mediocre. Their job is to kill chaff, not elites. Their MA and damage are both stellar, it's their MD or armour that could be touched up. Maybe just +10 armour to make them more resilient vs chaff and arrows.
  • hanenhanen Posts: 348Registered Users
    I think +10 armor for both variants and maybe +5 CB on the normal ones would be a good start.

    I do think giving Coast access to lore of vampires was a bad idea. It makes it hard to balance units properly because the value they could get from invocation of nehek.
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Posts: 1,358Registered Users
    Zeblasky said:

    The only place where DG feels powerful enough is versus Vampire Counts funnily enough, and only the version with halberds.

    Nope. They suck vs VC too. As VC you either have banshees(easy counter to halberds). Cairns. Black Coach(easy counter to halberds). Dragons or TGs(both cycle and breaths deal with them). Or cavalry(while basic black knights are not enough, lances devastate them). Vargulfs are not bad vs halberds with support too. Oh and of course there is always posibility of Mortis.
    Do not forget how expensive they are.

    I hate to play vs Coast due to air easy Lord snipe. Stupidly OP fire Colosus that are good vs all VC units and Crabs(not SEM, but Monster cav ones). Deph guard are my least issue.
  • another505another505 Posts: 1,007Registered Users
    Yaa no to some of the radical buffs

    Even after the nerfs to vp they are still very strong. Shows how stupidly op the faction was. I still think their gun accuracy need a nerf
  • GriffithxiGriffithxi Posts: 490Registered Users
    edited October 22
    Fossoway said:

    Gotta disagree here. Every units may perform better on the flanks, but Depth Guards are probably the best flankers in the game. That's the whole point of them, they kill fast but don't take hits. If you're charging them head first into battle, then you're doing it wrong and shouldn't be surprised if they get wrecked.

    They are a risk vs reward unit, and a main priority target if you're playing against VCoast. Easy to pick apart by focus fire or multiple squad of enemies, but ignore them or leave them unchallenged and they'll absolutely destroy your team, raking hundreds of kills in the process.

    Depth Guards with Halberds are kinda in a weird spot, I'll give you that, but the dual weapon variant is godlike if used properly.

    I disagree because an armored low model count unit that will likely be one of the most expensive units on the field means flanking gets you shot in the side or back with clean shots from ap missile units (or just crossbows with their improved ap now) and since its high cost low model low health its done if you expose it to direct fire like that.
  • ZeblaskyZeblasky Posts: 441Registered Users
    tank3487 said:


    Nope. They suck vs VC too. As VC you either have banshees(easy counter to halberds). Cairns. Black Coach(easy counter to halberds). Dragons or TGs(both cycle and breaths deal with them). Or cavalry(while basic black knights are not enough, lances devastate them). Vargulfs are not bad vs halberds with support too. Oh and of course there is always posibility of Mortis.
    Do not forget how expensive they are.

    I hate to play vs Coast due to air easy Lord snipe. Stupidly OP fire Colosus that are good vs all VC units and Crabs(not SEM, but Monster cav ones). Deph guard are my least issue.

    Get 2 Colossus, surround in a blob with chaff and Depth guard with Halberds, wait 5 minutes, profit. A VC you just can't kill high priority targets surrounded with DG halberds.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Posts: 4,113Registered Users
    Delude said:

    Seldkam said:

    yst said:

    Such trash stats cant justify $1200 tbh.

    Like jeebus, they r more expensive than blk orks lol....

    That's actually a good point. These guys are at cream of the crop price tag but are capable of about 3/4ths that value in the best of cases. I'd like them to get a bit more of their melee prowess back, that would likely help a lot.
    yst said:

    Swordmasters, exe 75 models $1250 $1200
    Chosens, blk orks 60 models $1250, $1150
    Trash guards 45 models $1200 (LOL)

    Pretty much implies they r elitier than chosens or put swordmasters to shame. In reality swordmasters obliterate and butchered half of these trash guards before charge bonus fades lol

    Chaos, DE, and GS are factions designed around strong infantry. VP are designed around guns and artillery. 1200g does not buy you the same value of infantry in these comparisons, unless you want to give Chaos access to handguns. (You don't).

    That said, Depth Guard are pretty mediocre. Their job is to kill chaff, not elites. Their MA and damage are both stellar, it's their MD or armour that could be touched up. Maybe just +10 armour to make them more resilient vs chaff and arrows.
    Don't put words in my mouth. All I said was they could get a bit of melee prowess back, that's all. I'm surprised you're not responding to the people bringing up their previous Op stats to look at.
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  • DeludeDelude Posts: 299Registered Users
    Seldkam said:

    Delude said:

    Seldkam said:

    yst said:

    Such trash stats cant justify $1200 tbh.

    Like jeebus, they r more expensive than blk orks lol....

    That's actually a good point. These guys are at cream of the crop price tag but are capable of about 3/4ths that value in the best of cases. I'd like them to get a bit more of their melee prowess back, that would likely help a lot.
    yst said:

    Swordmasters, exe 75 models $1250 $1200
    Chosens, blk orks 60 models $1250, $1150
    Trash guards 45 models $1200 (LOL)

    Pretty much implies they r elitier than chosens or put swordmasters to shame. In reality swordmasters obliterate and butchered half of these trash guards before charge bonus fades lol

    Chaos, DE, and GS are factions designed around strong infantry. VP are designed around guns and artillery. 1200g does not buy you the same value of infantry in these comparisons, unless you want to give Chaos access to handguns. (You don't).

    That said, Depth Guard are pretty mediocre. Their job is to kill chaff, not elites. Their MA and damage are both stellar, it's their MD or armour that could be touched up. Maybe just +10 armour to make them more resilient vs chaff and arrows.
    Don't put words in my mouth. All I said was they could get a bit of melee prowess back, that's all. I'm surprised you're not responding to the people bringing up their previous Op stats to look at.
    Nowhere did I. You were comparing their value. Look at your post. "3/4". No. They don't get equal inf value.
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