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Bretonnians after their rework are even stronger than any reworked faction berofe or after them

ArkessArkess Posts: 2Registered Users
edited October 29 in Balancing Discussions
The rework of bretonnian lords not only dismissed their drawbacks, like a weak economy or castle defences, but made even stronger their advantages like a free horde armies and free additional lords.
As usual, i'm conquering as much regions as needed to summon Chaos, around 32-40 turn. As the Bretonnia, Chaos spawns at 23-27 turn, eliminating half of the New World factions, but i don't worry about this, because of Leo can solo any stack in the game (with the mage, even without Sword of Khaine, he easily kills 3500 skavens with 2 abominations without HP losses).
I've played on Very hard, pure vanilla without any mods.

So, what do we have in total:
- best economy in the game;
- most powerful lords, with perfect stats and infinite vigour;
- autoresolve on the side of lords, and Bretonnia has a lot of them;
- lords can easily reach 2 vows from start;
- free lady-mages from start instead of high-tier hero-mages, they support main stacks and give a good perks each another;
- free and unlimited confederation without any drawbacks (you can confederate 4 or 5 factions instantly, when decide to do that, and game will reward you with 20-turn order buff);
- armouries with +2 armour to ALL troops, that sounds not so powerful, while you are don't have 20 armouries and your absolutely free hobos don't have 60+ armor;
- FREE peasants everywhere, they're outnumbering other horde factions like a skaven or VC - and you can easily recruit 12 units of peasants per turn from the pool.

What, on my opinion, can we do with that?
1. Make infinite vigour more difficult to achieve. I think that you're underestimating importance of infinite vigour - it is a legal cheat.
2. Cut an industry profit, making peasant cap slightly more restraining factor;
3. Give a timeout (4-5 turns) to confederations and prevent confederation buff stacking;
4. Restrict easy gain of vows for lords;
5. Create a softcap for lords quantity, for example, 1 lord per 2 full provinces - and give +15% for army maintenance for each lord if this cap is exceeded;
6. Slightly nerf duration of Leo's active skills, it is too much endurance for a fast flying lord;
7. Slightly reduce auto-resolve weight of lords.
P.S. Sry for english, it is not my native.
Post edited by Arkess on


  • JustSurpriseMeJustSurpriseMe Posts: 15Registered Users
    edited October 29
    1. Mostly disagree. It is somewhat annoying how completing the Questing vow is more difficult than the Grail vow due to the specific conditions, but perfect Vigor for a Grail vow makes sense in the lore.
    2. Fully agree.
    3. Hard disagree. This is already a thing with the research you have to do for confederations. If you choose to do all the research before you start confederating, you have already self imposed a timeout.
    4. If vows become too hard, Bret is crippled-vows already are a restriction no other faction has.
    5. Please no. Bretonnia having no supply lines is fun and they are the only faction I don't feel the need to doom stack with because of he lack if supply lines.
    6. Probably fair, but changing active skills gets into multiplayer too, so that would have to be compensated for.
    7. Sounds good.

    Also, I'm pretty sure the high or dark elves can easily get a better econ via their agents.

  • securetsecuret Posts: 14Registered Users
    JustSurpriseMe idk if they can get an better econ, but just look at it he finished campaign in 48 turns, don't think you can do this with HE or DE. Although I never tried.
  • JustSurpriseMeJustSurpriseMe Posts: 15Registered Users
    securet said:

    JustSurpriseMe idk if they can get an better econ, but just look at it he finished campaign in 48 turns, don't think you can do this with HE or DE. Although I never tried.

    Yes and that is very impressive, but remember that Bretonnia has their special victory condition where you win a final battle that I think is faster than other races' short victory if you rush it.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,666Registered Users
    Lol best econ in the game!
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • Hanzo11Hanzo11 Posts: 22Registered Users
    I have never played a Brettonia campaign so I cant really weigh in on that part , but I'm currently playing a Heinrich campaign and I discovered how strong Louen is. He alone defeated an entire garrison of one of my minor cities. That in itself is pretty ridiculous for a lone unit ,but due to his abilities and items he ended the battle with no loss to his health. I dont know a great deal about the balance of brettonia but I know they have some weak points due to their reliance on cavalry but that seemed OP for a general. I had several further battles with brettonia after this and everytime I faced Louen it would require me to focus him down with tarpits of infantry and constantly using magic to buff my heros and general to ware him down. This still took an absurdly long time to kill him . All the while his high mobility makes him difficult to keep pinned down. My saving grace was that the AI makes baffling decisions and it had Louen charging headlong by himself into one of my flanks far from any friendly support. Otherwise taking him out wouldn't have happened. In singleplayer there are work arounds to something like this and ways to exploit the AIs crap decisions, but I could definitely see Louen being a total pain in multiplayer when controlled by a competent player. There are probably ways to deal with him that I haven't figured out but it still caught me off guard.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,666Registered Users
    edited November 2

    Lol best econ in the game!

    HE has a much much much much much much much better economy. So does dwarfs and DEs.

    Dwarfs heroes also can get perfect vigour. All of them. Not only that they can get regen on ALL of them. And has better garrisons.

    Bretonnia has by far the easiest win condition in ME (the others are way to grindy imo so rather than nerfing bretonnia make the others faster).
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,666Registered Users
    edited November 2
    And soloing armies with lords could use a nerf for sure but this has nothing to do with bretonnia but rather all races.

    I have long suggested a max cap on resistances at 70% rsther than 90% (makes a huge diff on effective hp)

    10 000 hp at 70% resist
    Effective hp to kill hero = 33 333

    10 000 hp at 90% resist
    Effective hp to kill hero = 100 000
    Post edited by Tennisgolfboll on
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
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