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Saurus Warriors, what about them?

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  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 8,884

    Its more that shielded ones need +25g and +1MD.

    No, they don't.

    Just create builds that can deal with them.
    Feel free to present why you do not feel they deserve a +25g, the 2nd part of your statements is pure nonsense, being able to deal with something is irrelevant to whether its too good or not.
  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,813
    I feel saurus meed a slight nerf rather than buff but im fine where it is

    Lzm and empire units need to be toned down since their roster can do so much now
  • EnergyzedEnergyzed Registered Users Posts: 356



    Lzm and empire units need to be toned down since their roster can do so much now

    Actually the play style against Lizardmen hasnt changed at all with the newest DLC, because all their new units fit on a redundant role with the same counters that Lizardmen had before.

    Lizardmen are a strong faction with many even match ups, but i would claim that they have more unfavourable ones than favourable. And assuming that they are currently on their strongest state, due to the fact that they have recieved 2 DLCs, that current state is not that impressive at all and will naturally get worse as other factions start recieving their full roster.
  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 999
    Delude said:

    ... Concluding it must be the shielded variant that's OP then is pure bias.

    Saurus with shields are still not as good as berserkers, ...

    Mate, no infantry in the whole ass game is as good as berserkers for the cost. None. Not a single one.
    sarcasm?
  • Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 6,260

    Delude said:

    ... Concluding it must be the shielded variant that's OP then is pure bias.

    Saurus with shields are still not as good as berserkers, ...

    Mate, no infantry in the whole ass game is as good as berserkers for the cost. None. Not a single one.
    sarcasm?
    I imagine he's being serious, no infantry is remotely as cost-effective as Norscan Berserkers. Maybe Longbeards. Maybe.
  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 999

    Its more that shielded ones need +25g and +1MD.

    I don't know about whether they need this particular change, but what I wish would happen is that non-shielded units should be a little more offensive minded than the same shielded unit.
  • AWizard_LizardAWizard_Lizard Registered Users Posts: 1,229
    I've said it before and i'll say it again, this whole deal with shield/no shield is beyond silly, to put it mildly, for anything even remotely better to peasants, zombies, skaven slaves. You go to war with your hands full, either with weapon/shield, 2-handed weapon, or 2 weapons. And the TT is the one to blame on that.

    But anyway, being more offensively oriented sounds good for variety, like pseudo dual-weapon. Same should happen with eternal guard and whoever else i might be forgetting. At least those guys actually hold their spears with both hands, it should be shown somehow statwise imo.

    Empire spearmen could remain as a sorta ''militia'' unit i guess. They seem to have a rather different role compared to other unshielded variants.

    Yes i know it's not about balance as such.
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  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,193
    With saurus I will almost always take the shielded variant yes, but this isn’t true for every other unit in the game. For clanrats I’ll take the unshielded variant usually, for example.
  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 999

    With saurus I will almost always take the shielded variant yes, but this isn’t true for every other unit in the game. For clanrats I’ll take the unshielded variant usually, for example.

    I think the issue is the cost of the shield is the same for both units. Which doesn't make sense.
  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Registered Users Posts: 852

    I've said it before and i'll say it again, this whole deal with shield/no shield is beyond silly, to put it mildly, for anything even remotely better to peasants, zombies, skaven slaves. You go to war with your hands full, either with weapon/shield, 2-handed weapon, or 2 weapons. And the TT is the one to blame on that.

    But anyway, being more offensively oriented sounds good for variety, like pseudo dual-weapon. Same should happen with eternal guard and whoever else i might be forgetting. At least those guys actually hold their spears with both hands, it should be shown somehow statwise imo.

    Empire spearmen could remain as a sorta ''militia'' unit i guess. They seem to have a rather different role compared to other unshielded variants.

    Yes i know it's not about balance as such.

    I look at it like a GPU binning process. The stronger infantry can run and fight effectively with a shield on one arm. The weaker ones can't and are 'binned' as the unshielded variant.

    If you look at the size of WH 'one-handed' weapons it's quite plausible that only the strongest could use them with a shield, and the rest would need both hands for the weapon (whether actually dual wielding or just for balance).
  • WojmirVonCarsteinWojmirVonCarstein Registered Users Posts: 999

    I've said it before and i'll say it again, this whole deal with shield/no shield is beyond silly, to put it mildly, for anything even remotely better to peasants, zombies, skaven slaves. You go to war with your hands full, either with weapon/shield, 2-handed weapon, or 2 weapons. And the TT is the one to blame on that.

    But anyway, being more offensively oriented sounds good for variety, like pseudo dual-weapon. Same should happen with eternal guard and whoever else i might be forgetting. At least those guys actually hold their spears with both hands, it should be shown somehow statwise imo.

    Empire spearmen could remain as a sorta ''militia'' unit i guess. They seem to have a rather different role compared to other unshielded variants.

    Yes i know it's not about balance as such.

    Even in TT, you never took a unit with no shield, unless it had some sort of special weapon (two-handed, halberd etc).
  • Meteor18Meteor18 Registered Users Posts: 157

    With saurus I will almost always take the shielded variant yes, but this isn’t true for every other unit in the game. For clanrats I’ll take the unshielded variant usually, for example.

    You pay 14% percent more to upgrade your Clanrats with a shield, for Saurus Warriors it is 6.67%. For example if you have 1500 points of gold in Clanrats and Saurus Warriors, you need 250 gold more to equip your five unit of rats with shield, and 100 to upgrade the two Saurus units.
  • PippingtonPippington Registered Users Posts: 2,075
    edited November 2019

    You go to war with your hands full, either with weapon/shield, 2-handed weapon, or 2 weapons. And the TT is the one to blame on that.

    I think the demands of TW campaign are probably equally to blame. Gotta have enough unit variants to fill up all the settlement tiers on the barracks building, while also holding some units back for DLC...

    I agree with you that 'whoops i forgot my shield' units don't do wonders for my immersion. Ferals too feel like the same thing to me.


    Get on, Kroq-Gar, we're going shopping

  • tzurugbytzurugby Registered Users Posts: 275


    I don't know about whether they need this particular change, but what I wish would happen is that non-shielded units should be a little more offensive minded than the same shielded unit.

    I like this idea all around.... i would love it if, little by little, CA started balancing towards intuitive concepts.

    You have one unit with a shield and one hand on its weapon, it should be more defensive and generally last longer in a fight.

    You have the same unit with no shield and two hands on it's weapon, it should be a lot more vulnerable, but do much more damage (higher Weapon Strength and higher Melee Attack).


    The current state is that there isn't a good reason to pick the unshielded version over the shielded unless you are literally short 50 gold for the build you want.


    As has been noted there are other shielded/unshielded units that have the same issue. I know CA is reticent to make large changes, but small changes in the right direction would here would be awesome.
  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Registered Users Posts: 852
    I don't agree that shieldless versions should be more aggressive. A shield can be used as an offensive weapon - and far more effectively than a bare arm or empty hand.

    The way they have it, so that a one handed weapon with a shield is simply better (but more expensive) than using a one-handed weapon alone, is basically correct.
  • AWizard_LizardAWizard_Lizard Registered Users Posts: 1,229
    edited November 2019

    I don't agree that shieldless versions should be more aggressive. A shield can be used as an offensive weapon - and far more effectively than a bare arm or empty hand.

    The way they have it, so that a one handed weapon with a shield is simply better (but more expensive) than using a one-handed weapon alone, is basically correct.

    The problem isn't that shieldless versions should be more aggressive (that's just some effort to rationalize the absence of a shield, so they may use the weapon with both hands or some mental gymnstics like that)

    The problem is that there are shieldless versions. full stop.

    A quick look to previous total war titles shows us no such thing as shieldless this or that. Now if they had heavy and light versions that would be more appropriate.
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  • another505another505 Registered Users Posts: 1,813
    Energyzed said:



    Lzm and empire units need to be toned down since their roster can do so much now

    Actually the play style against Lizardmen hasnt changed at all with the newest DLC, because all their new units fit on a redundant role with the same counters that Lizardmen had before.

    Lizardmen are a strong faction with many even match ups, but i would claim that they have more unfavourable ones than favourable. And assuming that they are currently on their strongest state, due to the fact that they have recieved 2 DLCs, that current state is not that impressive at all and will naturally get worse as other factions start recieving their full roster.
    I disagree, they got stronger air and "artillery" play with salamander
    they have A LOT of resistance stacking now making boxing viable


    how many factions will receive their full roster? I can see HE and DE maybe, but then most of the game faction especially dlc 1 factions are bare bone and most likely stay that.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 24,550

    I don't agree that shieldless versions should be more aggressive. A shield can be used as an offensive weapon - and far more effectively than a bare arm or empty hand.

    The way they have it, so that a one handed weapon with a shield is simply better (but more expensive) than using a one-handed weapon alone, is basically correct.

    If you have two hands on a spear you can much easier direct it and exert more force into a thrust. Shieldless spearmen at the very least should see an increase in MA and WS over their shielded counterparts.

  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Registered Users Posts: 852

    I don't agree that shieldless versions should be more aggressive. A shield can be used as an offensive weapon - and far more effectively than a bare arm or empty hand.

    The way they have it, so that a one handed weapon with a shield is simply better (but more expensive) than using a one-handed weapon alone, is basically correct.

    If you have two hands on a spear you can much easier direct it and exert more force into a thrust. Shieldless spearmen at the very least should see an increase in MA and WS over their shielded counterparts.
    A reasonable point, though you could argue it's counterbalanced by shields contributing to MA as a second pummeling weapon. But certainly it isn't right that some spears (like bret and empire) attack more effectively with shields.
  • The_real_FAUSTThe_real_FAUST Registered Users Posts: 745
    I beleive in the lore they were unique in using their Shields as weapons in addition to their actual hand weapons
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