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Luthor Harkon mount price swap

OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,375Registered Users
Luthor Harkon needs to have his base cost reduced by 100 and his mount cost increased by 100. As is he is a neverpick on foot, especially due to his items having shortish range so not really viable when he is on his mount. Doing a price swap would allow the leader of the Vampire coast to be swashbuckling around a bit more.

Comments

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,729Registered Users
  • GriffithxiGriffithxi Posts: 489Registered Users
    OrkLads said:

    Luthor Harkon needs to have his base cost reduced by 100 and his mount cost increased by 100. As is he is a neverpick on foot, especially due to his items having shortish range so not really viable when he is on his mount. Doing a price swap would allow the leader of the Vampire coast to be swashbuckling around a bit more.

    I want to piggy back on this and say that Hellebron on foot could also use the same treatment
    the previous reduction of price for most foot lords was great and I see more now than I used to but some prices still seem off comparatively.

    base cost on foot for
    Karl Franz 1100 with 100 armor and AP
    Aranessa 850 with 20 armor and AP
    Hellebron 1150 with 15 armor and AP
  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Posts: 535Registered Users
    edited November 6
    ^ Compared to Franz, Hellebron has +20% phy res, +10 speed, +5 MA, +10 MD, poison and 20 frikkin BvI. She beats the crap out of him and is heavily underpriced relatively speaking (though it's more that Franz is overpriced).

    https://twwstats.com/unitscards?units=f=0&k=wh_main_emp_cha_karl_franz_0&r=0&v=2078602271960950043&units=f=0&k=wh2_dlc10_def_cha_crone_0&r=0&v=2078602271960950043

    And Aranessa is absurdly good value. Compare her for instance to a runelord, which does a similar job at a similar price... except aranessa is a vastly better combatant.
  • GriffithxiGriffithxi Posts: 489Registered Users
    edited November 6

    ^ Compared to Franz, Hellebron has +20% phy res, +10 speed, +5 MA, +10 MD, poison and 20 frikkin BvI. She beats the crap out of him and is heavily underpriced relatively speaking (though it's more that Franz is overpriced).

    https://twwstats.com/unitscards?units=f=0&k=wh_main_emp_cha_karl_franz_0&r=0&v=2078602271960950043&units=f=0&k=wh2_dlc10_def_cha_crone_0&r=0&v=2078602271960950043

    And Aranessa is absurdly good value. Compare her for instance to a runelord, which does a similar job at a similar price... except aranessa is a vastly better combatant.

    The point of putting aranessa on this list is because it shows the contrast.
    Aranessa is another combatant with low armor 20% physical resist, high bonus vs (35 "frikkin BvL") and armor piercing
    as well as high MA and MD but she only costs 850 base compared to Hellebron 1150 base....
  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Posts: 535Registered Users
    edited November 6
    Yeah, I agree. But there also seemed to be an implication that Franz was good value compared to Hellebron. Basically what I'm saying is (on foot) Aranessa>>Hellebron>>Franz

    Come to think of it Franz would be a great option for the 'mount price swap' because he's awful value on foot but decent on griffon.

  • GriffithxiGriffithxi Posts: 489Registered Users

    Yeah, I agree. But there also seemed to be an implication that Franz was good value compared to Hellebron. Basically what I'm saying is (on foot) Aranessa>>Hellebron>>Franz

    Come to think of it Franz would be a great option for the 'mount price swap' because he's awful value on foot but decent on griffon.

    Franz is serving as the baseline in my comparison not as an example of an ideal. If you say that my baseline needs price reduction then so be it but that would just further the point I am trying to make imo.
  • DeludeDelude Posts: 299Registered Users
    One key difference between Karl and Hellebron is that Karl is actually good.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,729Registered Users
    Delude said:

    One key difference between Karl and Hellebron is that Karl is actually good.

    Hellebron is quite good also though, not karl level but shes definitely good, issue is shes competing for a lord choice with malekith and morathi.
  • DeludeDelude Posts: 299Registered Users

    Delude said:

    One key difference between Karl and Hellebron is that Karl is actually good.

    Hellebron is quite good also though, not karl level but shes definitely good, issue is shes competing for a lord choice with malekith and morathi.
    It's more than just being outcompeted. Supreme Sorc is better than Malekith or Morathi, they both still see play because they bring something different to the table. Hellebron doesn't. She was good vs Dwarfs until the Old Friends were added. Nowadays I use the dreadlady and Lokhir more than her. She's borderline unusable, and trust me, I've tried.

    She costs as much as Morathi but without being able to bring spells or auras, and mounting her removes her phys resist, which is asinine. If her price was lowered and she didn't lose her phys resist when mounted she'd be good. Right now you can meme on grails with her, I guess, if your opponent feels the need to pick them at all (they don't need to) and you don't mind paying the ridiculous price for her, her mount, and her item. And then odds are Louen will just murder her anyway.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,729Registered Users
    Delude said:

    Delude said:

    One key difference between Karl and Hellebron is that Karl is actually good.

    Hellebron is quite good also though, not karl level but shes definitely good, issue is shes competing for a lord choice with malekith and morathi.
    It's more than just being outcompeted. Supreme Sorc is better than Malekith or Morathi, they both still see play because they bring something different to the table. Hellebron doesn't. She was good vs Dwarfs until the Old Friends were added. Nowadays I use the dreadlady and Lokhir more than her. She's borderline unusable, and trust me, I've tried.

    She costs as much as Morathi but without being able to bring spells or auras, and mounting her removes her phys resist, which is asinine. If her price was lowered and she didn't lose her phys resist when mounted she'd be good. Right now you can meme on grails with her, I guess, if your opponent feels the need to pick them at all (they don't need to) and you don't mind paying the ridiculous price for her, her mount, and her item. And then odds are Louen will just murder her anyway.
    Yes she does, she brings superb Melee potential for your units.
  • tank3487tank3487 Member Posts: 1,356Registered Users


    Yes she does, she brings superb Melee potential for your units.

    But you can have superb Melee potential for your units if you take Morathi double OP auras too. And she is more mobile and as result more flexible.
    But IMHO it is more due to problem of Morathi and Malekith being too good, than Helebron bad.
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,729Registered Users
    tank3487 said:


    Yes she does, she brings superb Melee potential for your units.

    But you can have superb Melee potential for your units if you take Morathi double OP auras too. And she is more mobile and as result more flexible.
    But IMHO it is more due to problem of Morathi and Malekith being too good, than Helebron bad.
    Her buffs are beter, and maortis things are hardly OP, well glad to hear you want helebron buffed but i dont agree shes in bad spot liek you think
  • DeludeDelude Posts: 299Registered Users
    tank3487 said:


    Yes she does, she brings superb Melee potential for your units.

    But you can have superb Melee potential for your units if you take Morathi double OP auras too. And she is more mobile and as result more flexible.
    But IMHO it is more due to problem of Morathi and Malekith being too good, than Helebron bad.
    Morathi has to be actively involved in melee combat for Heartrender & the Darksword to work, not nearby, not in the back. Engaged.

    15 armour, no phys resist, what could possibly go wrong? Using her auras is commitment to the strategy of endangering your lord/squishy sorceress by using her to fistfight the enemy. The next person to refer to said auras as OP shall be reprimanded, flogged, lubricated, possibly sodomized, and dragged through the streets.



  • Disposable HeroDisposable Hero Posts: 3,697Registered Users
    I think they are indeed a bit op yeah. :)
  • DeludeDelude Posts: 299Registered Users

    I think they are indeed a bit op yeah. :)

    Now you're just flirting with me.
  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,375Registered Users
    Delude said:

    tank3487 said:


    Yes she does, she brings superb Melee potential for your units.

    But you can have superb Melee potential for your units if you take Morathi double OP auras too. And she is more mobile and as result more flexible.
    But IMHO it is more due to problem of Morathi and Malekith being too good, than Helebron bad.
    Morathi has to be actively involved in melee combat for Heartrender & the Darksword to work, not nearby, not in the back. Engaged.

    15 armour, no phys resist, what could possibly go wrong? Using her auras is commitment to the strategy of endangering your lord/squishy sorceress by using her to fistfight the enemy. The next person to refer to said auras as OP shall be reprimanded, flogged, lubricated, possibly sodomized, and dragged through the streets.



    Nah only 1 of them is active in combat, the other she just needs to be nearby. Which is super easy to do on her pegasus.

    But yea, More likely that malektoh and morathi on their mounts are just under costed rather than she is underpowered on foot. If they are fine though, can just do Mount price swaps for the two of them and buffs for hellebron. And do the same for all other factions underperformers too
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