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Globadiers with a bonus vs Infantry in melee

Beahns18Beahns18 Posts: 5Registered Users
Right now, Death Globe Bombardiers feel a little too niche to be worth bringing. 9/10 times Rattling gunners are simply a better option for most engagements. If you made Death Globe Bombardiers and Poison Wind Globadiers better in melee however, you'd be giving them a distinct role as a melee/ranged infantry hybrid. Both units already have good armor and health per model in comparison to the rest of the roster, all they really need is a boost to their melee damage and attack to make them more useful in close quarters. From a lore perspective, you could make an argument that they cover their blades in warpstone-based mutagens to increase their lethality. In game terms I think this could transfer over to a 5-9 bonus versus infantry. It would makes sense. as an unit with a short ranged weapon like the death globe, should be trained and equipped to finish off enemies from close quarters after the initial volley. But those are just my thoughts.
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Comments

  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,097Registered Users
    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,423Registered Users
    interesting idea. kind of tricky to balance that - either they do or don't want to get into melee, you know what i mean?

    I would kind of prefer to give death globes better armour and ammo and maybe leadership. They'd be more uniquely "tough" in the skaven roster and the ammo would mean they can better recoup their cost.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,622Registered Users
    No, their primary weapon should be made reliable first. They would suck in melee no matter what BvI you gave them because they're such a small unit with little health.

  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,375Registered Users
    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,622Registered Users
    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.

  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,375Registered Users

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,622Registered Users
    edited November 5
    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.

  • OrkLadsOrkLads Posts: 1,375Registered Users

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,160Registered Users
    edited November 6
    comparing to Ratling Gunners, which are overperforming in their own way to argue for a buff isn’t the best idea.

    Bombardiers are a niche unit simply because for Skaven killing infantry is not an issue in 95% of situations. There are also more versatile tools for that such as Rod of Corruption or Doomwheels or Rat Ogres.

    Globadiers are strong vs cav and from 1/2 range vs SEMs too. At max range they’re not the best but what do you expect for only 550g.

    Besides with 100 armor and 36 models they are a bad target for archers where for example Ratlings with 70 armor and 24 models are a good one.
  • Wyvern2Wyvern2 Posts: 1,355Registered Users
    Pwgs are grievously underrated. They melt large units, just suck vs flyers, which doesnt really matter unless youre trying to shoo away deckdroppers or gyros with them, which seems like an unlikely scenario given how weak pwgs are in both of those mus.

    I had a recent game vs indy that you can find on his channel, and despite some really bad micro on my end, the pwgs dished out significant hurt in the time they were alive against his cav and dragons.
    Regularly publish Total War: Warhammer 2 content on my YT channel

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPI93p-X2T4YKD18O16bhPw
  • Beahns18Beahns18 Posts: 5Registered Users
    edited November 6
    Green0 said:

    comparing to Ratling Gunners, which are overperforming in their own way to argue for a buff isn’t the best idea.

    Bombardiers are a niche unit simply because for Skaven killing infantry is not an issue in 95% of situations. There are also more versatile tools for that such as Rod of Corruption or Doomwheels or Rat Ogres.

    Globadiers are strong vs cav and from 1/2 range vs SEMs too. At max range they’re not the best but what do you expect for only 550g.

    Besides with 100 armor and 36 models they are a bad target for archers where for example Ratlings with 70 armor and 24 models are a good one.

    Ratling Gunners are fine, as you said archers counter them very well. Not to mention an extra 30 armor and 12 models is a relatively mute point considering Ratling gunners have 62% greater health per model to compensate for that.

    I think you're missing my point, I know that they CAN be effective. Its just that the situations in which they can be are rare. Most of the time you're simply better off bringing either Ratling gunners, Warplock Jezzails. or even warpfire throwers All I am simply proposing is that they are buffed to be capable melee combatants so that towards the end of a battle, when most units are damaged and have little ammunition left, they can be thrown into combat and still preform well enough (similar to shades), something which none of the weapons teams would be able to do. In campaign this argument is amplified even more. The previously mentioned Weapons teams have the Forbidden workshop to boot while the Globadiers are left in the dust. If nothing else, they deserve a spot in the workshop.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,160Registered Users
    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    comparing to Ratling Gunners, which are overperforming in their own way to argue for a buff isn’t the best idea.

    Bombardiers are a niche unit simply because for Skaven killing infantry is not an issue in 95% of situations. There are also more versatile tools for that such as Rod of Corruption or Doomwheels or Rat Ogres.

    Globadiers are strong vs cav and from 1/2 range vs SEMs too. At max range they’re not the best but what do you expect for only 550g.

    Besides with 100 armor and 36 models they are a bad target for archers where for example Ratlings with 70 armor and 24 models are a good one.

    Ratling Gunners are fine, as you said archers counter them very well. Not to mention an extra 30 armor and 12 models is a relatively mute point considering Ratling gunners have 62% greater health per model to compensate for that.

    I think you're missing my point, I know that they CAN be effective. Its just that the situations in which they can be are rare. Most of the time you're simply better off bringing either Ratling gunners, Warplock Jezzails. or even warpfire throwers All I am simply proposing is that they are buffed to be capable melee combatants so that towards the end of a battle, when most units are damaged and have little ammunition left, they can be thrown into combat and still preform well enough (similar to shades), something which none of the weapons teams would be able to do. In campaign this argument is amplified even more. The previously mentioned Weapons teams have the Forbidden workshop to boot while the Globadiers are left in the dust. If nothing else, they deserve a spot in the workshop.
    Globadiers are fine, they have been massively buffed many patches in a row now. Comparing them with one of the best units in Skaven roster to advocate for a buff is unfair. Every roster has some stronger and weaker units and Globadiers are totally playable.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,054Registered Users
    edited November 6
    Its matter of when the worst skaven unit gets buffed. Death globes r utterly useless and obselete. Death globes make the mundane mediocre poison globes looks like godmode.

    Its laughable this joke of a unit costs $850 lol..... even vamps without range unit would vomit and spit at such a trash being offered to their roster

    Disgustingly bad unit, why would any1 bring this trash of a missile vs anything, like what u gonna use it to hit elite inf? Rat orge gets the job done cheaper lol. Even frikking regular globes overwrite them
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  • eumaieseumaies Senior Member Posts: 4,423Registered Users
    Yeah death globes currently have no value in the roster. But with some updates they could at least have a niche.
  • glosskilosglosskilos Posts: 1,160Registered Users
    The same should apply to warp fire throwers.
  • Beahns18Beahns18 Posts: 5Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    comparing to Ratling Gunners, which are overperforming in their own way to argue for a buff isn’t the best idea.

    Bombardiers are a niche unit simply because for Skaven killing infantry is not an issue in 95% of situations. There are also more versatile tools for that such as Rod of Corruption or Doomwheels or Rat Ogres.

    Globadiers are strong vs cav and from 1/2 range vs SEMs too. At max range they’re not the best but what do you expect for only 550g.

    Besides with 100 armor and 36 models they are a bad target for archers where for example Ratlings with 70 armor and 24 models are a good one.

    Ratling Gunners are fine, as you said archers counter them very well. Not to mention an extra 30 armor and 12 models is a relatively mute point considering Ratling gunners have 62% greater health per model to compensate for that.

    I think you're missing my point, I know that they CAN be effective. Its just that the situations in which they can be are rare. Most of the time you're simply better off bringing either Ratling gunners, Warplock Jezzails. or even warpfire throwers All I am simply proposing is that they are buffed to be capable melee combatants so that towards the end of a battle, when most units are damaged and have little ammunition left, they can be thrown into combat and still preform well enough (similar to shades), something which none of the weapons teams would be able to do. In campaign this argument is amplified even more. The previously mentioned Weapons teams have the Forbidden workshop to boot while the Globadiers are left in the dust. If nothing else, they deserve a spot in the workshop.
    Globadiers are fine, they have been massively buffed many patches in a row now. Comparing them with one of the best units in Skaven roster to advocate for a buff is unfair. Every roster has some stronger and weaker units and Globadiers are totally playable.
    Dude, each unit on a roster is supposed to have its own role, it doesn't matter what I am comparing it to, what does matter is that the very same role that said unit is supposed to have, is made obsolete by another unit of the same exact price point in the same exact class. And as it stands, the overall consensus from the community appears to be that Globadiers/Bombardiers are not worth having in the roster due to how their current role and stats too closely resemble and are outperformed by other similar units.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,160Registered Users
    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    comparing to Ratling Gunners, which are overperforming in their own way to argue for a buff isn’t the best idea.

    Bombardiers are a niche unit simply because for Skaven killing infantry is not an issue in 95% of situations. There are also more versatile tools for that such as Rod of Corruption or Doomwheels or Rat Ogres.

    Globadiers are strong vs cav and from 1/2 range vs SEMs too. At max range they’re not the best but what do you expect for only 550g.

    Besides with 100 armor and 36 models they are a bad target for archers where for example Ratlings with 70 armor and 24 models are a good one.

    Ratling Gunners are fine, as you said archers counter them very well. Not to mention an extra 30 armor and 12 models is a relatively mute point considering Ratling gunners have 62% greater health per model to compensate for that.

    I think you're missing my point, I know that they CAN be effective. Its just that the situations in which they can be are rare. Most of the time you're simply better off bringing either Ratling gunners, Warplock Jezzails. or even warpfire throwers All I am simply proposing is that they are buffed to be capable melee combatants so that towards the end of a battle, when most units are damaged and have little ammunition left, they can be thrown into combat and still preform well enough (similar to shades), something which none of the weapons teams would be able to do. In campaign this argument is amplified even more. The previously mentioned Weapons teams have the Forbidden workshop to boot while the Globadiers are left in the dust. If nothing else, they deserve a spot in the workshop.
    Globadiers are fine, they have been massively buffed many patches in a row now. Comparing them with one of the best units in Skaven roster to advocate for a buff is unfair. Every roster has some stronger and weaker units and Globadiers are totally playable.
    Dude, each unit on a roster is supposed to have its own role, it doesn't matter what I am comparing it to, what does matter is that the very same role that said unit is supposed to have, is made obsolete by another unit of the same exact price point in the same exact class. And as it stands, the overall consensus from the community appears to be that Globadiers/Bombardiers are not worth having in the roster due to how their current role and stats too closely resemble and are outperformed by other similar units.
    there’s so many things wrong with this post I would have to write an essay. Since I doubt you’d change your mind because you seem to have the (wrong) impression that “all units must be viable!” (which they already are, just not the way you want them to be”, I won’t go further.

    You’re wrong though and for that matter the few people who posted in this thread (some of which have also disagreed with you) isn’t a “community consensus”.
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Posts: 1,290Registered Users
    just drop the price by 150 or so, paying 300 gold extra compared to poison wind globadiers is a bit much.
  • Beahns18Beahns18 Posts: 5Registered Users
    Green0 said:

    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    comparing to Ratling Gunners, which are overperforming in their own way to argue for a buff isn’t the best idea.

    Bombardiers are a niche unit simply because for Skaven killing infantry is not an issue in 95% of situations. There are also more versatile tools for that such as Rod of Corruption or Doomwheels or Rat Ogres.

    Globadiers are strong vs cav and from 1/2 range vs SEMs too. At max range they’re not the best but what do you expect for only 550g.

    Besides with 100 armor and 36 models they are a bad target for archers where for example Ratlings with 70 armor and 24 models are a good one.

    Ratling Gunners are fine, as you said archers counter them very well. Not to mention an extra 30 armor and 12 models is a relatively mute point considering Ratling gunners have 62% greater health per model to compensate for that.

    I think you're missing my point, I know that they CAN be effective. Its just that the situations in which they can be are rare. Most of the time you're simply better off bringing either Ratling gunners, Warplock Jezzails. or even warpfire throwers All I am simply proposing is that they are buffed to be capable melee combatants so that towards the end of a battle, when most units are damaged and have little ammunition left, they can be thrown into combat and still preform well enough (similar to shades), something which none of the weapons teams would be able to do. In campaign this argument is amplified even more. The previously mentioned Weapons teams have the Forbidden workshop to boot while the Globadiers are left in the dust. If nothing else, they deserve a spot in the workshop.
    Globadiers are fine, they have been massively buffed many patches in a row now. Comparing them with one of the best units in Skaven roster to advocate for a buff is unfair. Every roster has some stronger and weaker units and Globadiers are totally playable.
    Dude, each unit on a roster is supposed to have its own role, it doesn't matter what I am comparing it to, what does matter is that the very same role that said unit is supposed to have, is made obsolete by another unit of the same exact price point in the same exact class. And as it stands, the overall consensus from the community appears to be that Globadiers/Bombardiers are not worth having in the roster due to how their current role and stats too closely resemble and are outperformed by other similar units.
    there’s so many things wrong with this post I would have to write an essay. Since I doubt you’d change your mind because you seem to have the (wrong) impression that “all units must be viable!” (which they already are, just not the way you want them to be”, I won’t go further.

    You’re wrong though and for that matter the few people who posted in this thread (some of which have also disagreed with you) isn’t a “community consensus”.
    "There *are* so many thing wrong with this post I would have to write an essay". Ah yes, the classic "I don't have any valid counter-arguments to make" ripped straight from a YouTube comment section. And uhhh, no, not at all. You said it yourself " they've been buffed multiple times" why do you think CA would bother buffing or nerfing units at all if they were all viable? And ok why am I wrong? I am building my consensus on more than just this post, but from games that I have seen , Youtubers I have watched and other posts similar to this one.
  • Green0Green0 Posts: 5,160Registered Users
    edited November 6
    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    Beahns18 said:

    Green0 said:

    comparing to Ratling Gunners, which are overperforming in their own way to argue for a buff isn’t the best idea.

    Bombardiers are a niche unit simply because for Skaven killing infantry is not an issue in 95% of situations. There are also more versatile tools for that such as Rod of Corruption or Doomwheels or Rat Ogres.

    Globadiers are strong vs cav and from 1/2 range vs SEMs too. At max range they’re not the best but what do you expect for only 550g.

    Besides with 100 armor and 36 models they are a bad target for archers where for example Ratlings with 70 armor and 24 models are a good one.

    Ratling Gunners are fine, as you said archers counter them very well. Not to mention an extra 30 armor and 12 models is a relatively mute point considering Ratling gunners have 62% greater health per model to compensate for that.

    I think you're missing my point, I know that they CAN be effective. Its just that the situations in which they can be are rare. Most of the time you're simply better off bringing either Ratling gunners, Warplock Jezzails. or even warpfire throwers All I am simply proposing is that they are buffed to be capable melee combatants so that towards the end of a battle, when most units are damaged and have little ammunition left, they can be thrown into combat and still preform well enough (similar to shades), something which none of the weapons teams would be able to do. In campaign this argument is amplified even more. The previously mentioned Weapons teams have the Forbidden workshop to boot while the Globadiers are left in the dust. If nothing else, they deserve a spot in the workshop.
    Globadiers are fine, they have been massively buffed many patches in a row now. Comparing them with one of the best units in Skaven roster to advocate for a buff is unfair. Every roster has some stronger and weaker units and Globadiers are totally playable.
    Dude, each unit on a roster is supposed to have its own role, it doesn't matter what I am comparing it to, what does matter is that the very same role that said unit is supposed to have, is made obsolete by another unit of the same exact price point in the same exact class. And as it stands, the overall consensus from the community appears to be that Globadiers/Bombardiers are not worth having in the roster due to how their current role and stats too closely resemble and are outperformed by other similar units.
    there’s so many things wrong with this post I would have to write an essay. Since I doubt you’d change your mind because you seem to have the (wrong) impression that “all units must be viable!” (which they already are, just not the way you want them to be”, I won’t go further.

    You’re wrong though and for that matter the few people who posted in this thread (some of which have also disagreed with you) isn’t a “community consensus”.
    "There *are* so many thing wrong with this post I would have to write an essay". Ah yes, the classic "I don't have any valid counter-arguments to make" ripped straight from a YouTube comment section. And uhhh, no, not at all. You said it yourself " they've been buffed multiple times" why do you think CA would bother buffing or nerfing units at all if they were all viable? And ok why am I wrong? I am building my consensus on more than just this post, but from games that I have seen , Youtubers I have watched and other posts similar to this one.
    Youtubers play mostly to entertain and are not always right either, you shouldn't carry their word as pure truth. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, and most of them don't engage in high-level tournaments or play so they don't always see all the facets of balancing.

    About Globadiers, essentially the issue is that yes they're a bit average but they are also an AP AL unit for 550g, find me another one in the game for so cheap.

    Regarding comparison with Ratlings, well Ratlings are one of the jewels in the Skaven roster. Hard to be as good as them but since you wanna go that way I can tell you for example Globadiers have more armor (vs archers) and more burst on top of being cheaper of course.

    Your reasoning of "every unit must be viable" by comparing internally with a roster is very flawed. Buff Globadiers enough, and soon Ratlings are bad and you will see threads about "buff Ratlings because Globadiers outperform them". You gotta realize this stuff if you wanna talk about balancing and not randomly advocate for unit buffs.

    In truth, in ANY multiplayer game, there will always be some slightly below average stuff. It's inevitable and impossible for everything to be on the same power level because it's not a physically possible equilibrium. This is not exclusive to Skaven either, by the way. You can find underpowered units everywhere, for example, Chaos has Aspiring Champions, Chaos Warriors Halberds, Marauders GW. All of these units are fairly below average compared to the rest of the roster yet don't necessarily need buffs.

    The important part is that you can still win with Globadiers if you play well and, as a person who has Skaven as his 4th-5th most played faction, I can tell you I would pick them vs specific unit types if I knew my opponent's army in advance, though I agree something like Jezzails is more versatile and a jack of all trades. To name 2 units vs which I think they're better than Jezails, Noble Chariots and Grail Guardians.

    Regarding Bombardiers, I haven't compared them in a while so I can't say if they are worse than Ratlings, but it's also worth mentioning that Ratlings are slightly too strong (but shouldn't be nerfed), so you can hardly compare stuff to them, that's like comparing a Forest Dragon to Kholek (best monster in the game) and arguing the Dragon is UP.

    It seems to me though that Globadiers ignore shields, again have higher armor (more sturdy vs missiles), do splash damage and their projectiles arc slightly so probably sometimes you can throw them over your troops, all of which give them a niche. Currently I see them as useful only vs Chaos though but this is due to nobody picking elite infantry vs Skaven. They also work OK vs large incidentally.
  • ystyst Posts: 6,054Registered Users
    No ones talking about poison globe duh.

    This thread is about death globes, which is pretty much missing $200 worth of value. To be honest tho, even a -$200 cut will still see this unit at 0 pick rate. Skaven simply cant afford anything this trash as they requires an obscene amount of baby sitting.

    Even if those 2 globes r priced the same, ud still pick poison just coz it at least has a role vs large. Death globes r just meh
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  • PussyslayerXDDPussyslayerXDD Posts: 24Registered Users
    More ammo would help a lot in those few matches where you know there s gonna be some heavy infantry, nominally dawi and chaos, but they can hardly pay themseves if you have to shoot at chaff, and given their low range and overall vulnerability to boolets and arrows you dont really have much of a choice about who to bombard.
    They have the potential to do some damage, but is diffcult to babysit them while positioned in the right spot, and even then theyll deplete their ammos super fast, in short:
    -More ammo
    -Lower price

    Or even the famous rework people are asking for, giving them lingering poison or whatever to make them more unique, add em to the forbidden workshop in SP.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,622Registered Users
    edited November 6
    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
    Whatever effect they have on shielded infantry is absolutely irrelevant compared to their absolute incapability to deal with flying units or anything large and fast. I'd rather have units that can shoot down a dragon than units that can melt Chaos Warriors slightly faster. Also, Ratling Gunners hit way more consistently because their shots can't be dodged AND they have a slowdown effect which synergizes well with other units. Bombardiers and Globadiers have nothing. They don't even inflict poison or anything similar.

    Turning them into bombs is bad, it just makes a Skaven backline all the easier to compromise.

    No, speed up their projectiles and give Globadiers and Bombardiers a lingering poison cloud effect that melts armor. Then they might have a point.

  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,959Registered Users
    edited November 7
    Ratling Gunners aren't even supposed to have the range that they have, and globadiers aren't supposed to be good in melee either. The problem is CA sometimes introduces units incorrectly or they create brand new ones from scratch that make others obsolete.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,097Registered Users

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Honestly my suggestion has nothing to do with balancing them and simply adding more "fluff" rules that are fun and flavorful. In TT they would throw, drop and otherwise break their globes in melee, they wearing gas masks where immune to their own weapons. I just thought this could be a fun way to represent that.

    That said, a part of me really dislikes how Poison Wind Globadiers and Plague Censer Bearers are both "bad" picks and that its because CA "creatively" implemented them, as opposed to faithfully.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,729Registered Users
    I do think they need a buff, they hardly used, they might not be far from being balanced but i think -100g is a good start.
  • fireatwill4fireatwill4 Posts: 16Registered Users

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
    Whatever effect they have on shielded infantry is absolutely irrelevant compared to their absolute incapability to deal with flying units or anything large and fast. I'd rather have units that can shoot down a dragon than units that can melt Chaos Warriors slightly faster. Also, Ratling Gunners hit way more consistently because their shots can't be dodged AND they have a slowdown effect which synergizes well with other units. Bombardiers and Globadiers have nothing. They don't even inflict poison or anything similar.

    Turning them into bombs is bad, it just makes a Skaven backline all the easier to compromise.

    No, speed up their projectiles and give Globadiers and Bombardiers a lingering poison cloud effect that melts armor. Then they might have a point.
    That logic is fundamentally flawed on the basis that globadiers are the SKV answer to ironbreakers. They were never conceived as an anti-air unit and shouldn't perform on that role. Imagine if you will trying to employ grenades in an anti-air role it becomes clear the results would be less that satisfactory. A cost reduction would certainly increase their pick rates and make them more attractive.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Posts: 3,097Registered Users

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
    Whatever effect they have on shielded infantry is absolutely irrelevant compared to their absolute incapability to deal with flying units or anything large and fast. I'd rather have units that can shoot down a dragon than units that can melt Chaos Warriors slightly faster. Also, Ratling Gunners hit way more consistently because their shots can't be dodged AND they have a slowdown effect which synergizes well with other units. Bombardiers and Globadiers have nothing. They don't even inflict poison or anything similar.

    Turning them into bombs is bad, it just makes a Skaven backline all the easier to compromise.

    No, speed up their projectiles and give Globadiers and Bombardiers a lingering poison cloud effect that melts armor. Then they might have a point.
    That logic is fundamentally flawed on the basis that globadiers are the SKV answer to ironbreakers. They were never conceived as an anti-air unit and shouldn't perform on that role. Imagine if you will trying to employ grenades in an anti-air role it becomes clear the results would be less that satisfactory. A cost reduction would certainly increase their pick rates and make them more attractive.
    Agreed, I'd rather have the Globadiers be faithful to their TT rules. Ratling Gunner is already a better candidate for an AA gun anyways.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,622Registered Users
    edited November 11

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
    Whatever effect they have on shielded infantry is absolutely irrelevant compared to their absolute incapability to deal with flying units or anything large and fast. I'd rather have units that can shoot down a dragon than units that can melt Chaos Warriors slightly faster. Also, Ratling Gunners hit way more consistently because their shots can't be dodged AND they have a slowdown effect which synergizes well with other units. Bombardiers and Globadiers have nothing. They don't even inflict poison or anything similar.

    Turning them into bombs is bad, it just makes a Skaven backline all the easier to compromise.

    No, speed up their projectiles and give Globadiers and Bombardiers a lingering poison cloud effect that melts armor. Then they might have a point.
    That logic is fundamentally flawed on the basis that globadiers are the SKV answer to ironbreakers. They were never conceived as an anti-air unit and shouldn't perform on that role. Imagine if you will trying to employ grenades in an anti-air role it becomes clear the results would be less that satisfactory. A cost reduction would certainly increase their pick rates and make them more attractive.
    LoL, Ironbreakers, really? Globadiers are near ineffective against any infantry and Ironbreakers are no exception.

    Or do you mean Bombardiers? Guess you aren't playing Skaven that often if you can't tell them apart.

    Also, wrong. Arbitrarily deciding that an AL unit should be completely ineffective against the most abusive form of large monster just because "reeelizzum" or something is horsepoo, plain and simple.
    OdTengri said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
    Whatever effect they have on shielded infantry is absolutely irrelevant compared to their absolute incapability to deal with flying units or anything large and fast. I'd rather have units that can shoot down a dragon than units that can melt Chaos Warriors slightly faster. Also, Ratling Gunners hit way more consistently because their shots can't be dodged AND they have a slowdown effect which synergizes well with other units. Bombardiers and Globadiers have nothing. They don't even inflict poison or anything similar.

    Turning them into bombs is bad, it just makes a Skaven backline all the easier to compromise.

    No, speed up their projectiles and give Globadiers and Bombardiers a lingering poison cloud effect that melts armor. Then they might have a point.
    That logic is fundamentally flawed on the basis that globadiers are the SKV answer to ironbreakers. They were never conceived as an anti-air unit and shouldn't perform on that role. Imagine if you will trying to employ grenades in an anti-air role it becomes clear the results would be less that satisfactory. A cost reduction would certainly increase their pick rates and make them more attractive.
    Agreed, I'd rather have the Globadiers be faithful to their TT rules. Ratling Gunner is already a better candidate for an AA gun anyways.
    Buddy, Ratling Gunners being always the straight better pick than Globadiers is the main issue. Globadiers are completely and utterly useless in any role.

  • fireatwill4fireatwill4 Posts: 16Registered Users

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
    Whatever effect they have on shielded infantry is absolutely irrelevant compared to their absolute incapability to deal with flying units or anything large and fast. I'd rather have units that can shoot down a dragon than units that can melt Chaos Warriors slightly faster. Also, Ratling Gunners hit way more consistently because their shots can't be dodged AND they have a slowdown effect which synergizes well with other units. Bombardiers and Globadiers have nothing. They don't even inflict poison or anything similar.

    Turning them into bombs is bad, it just makes a Skaven backline all the easier to compromise.

    No, speed up their projectiles and give Globadiers and Bombardiers a lingering poison cloud effect that melts armor. Then they might have a point.
    That logic is fundamentally flawed on the basis that globadiers are the SKV answer to ironbreakers. They were never conceived as an anti-air unit and shouldn't perform on that role. Imagine if you will trying to employ grenades in an anti-air role it becomes clear the results would be less that satisfactory. A cost reduction would certainly increase their pick rates and make them more attractive.
    LoL, Ironbreakers, really? Globadiers are near ineffective against any infantry and Ironbreakers are no exception.

    Or do you mean Bombardiers? Guess you aren't playing Skaven that often if you can't tell them apart.

    Also, wrong. Arbitrarily deciding that an AL unit should be completely ineffective against the most abusive form of large monster just because "reeelizzum" or something is horsepoo, plain and simple.
    OdTengri said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OrkLads said:

    OdTengri said:

    Make all Globadiers Explode on Dying like the RoR Phoenix Guard, but animated with their Glass Globes Exploding.

    That would be quite a nice way of balancing them, they would be less reliable and worse units than ratling gunners but if you think your opponent will be able to shut them down they will do damage back. Could make them an interesting choice vs Beastmen, Greenskins, Norsca etc
    Nope, that would do eff-all to help them because they'd still be incapable of hitting anything and so be worthless. And they should definitely not be the Skaven version of Bloated Corpses.
    Death Globe Bombardiers have no problem hitting infantry. Poison Globe Bombardiers can't hit Single entities but they can hit cav okay.
    Death Globe Bombardiers are obsolete. Ratling Gunners are almost always the better alternative and they cost about the same. They should get some lingering gas effect that negatively affects units standing in it, be it damage or debuffs.

    Cav can also dodge Globadiers OK thanks to slow-motion projectiles. O yeah, and since they have to practically stand right next to whatever they want to hit and are mighty slow, they still won't hit anything.
    Death Globe bombardiers do much better against shielded infantry than ratling gunners in my experience. Globadiers are only 550 and they can definitely hit some of the time. + with 100 armour they don't melt to cheap light cav, and can recoup their value on higher tier cav somewhat if shots lands.

    If they both had a Mark of Asuryan effects on death, I think they would be good balanced units. They could be worked into builds as ranged DPS that could be shutdown but at a cost. They will never replace Ratlings Gunners or Jezzails in all use cases, but they aren't supposed to. They could be used on the outside of formations as a first ranged roadblock before the opponent could get to your gun units.
    Whatever effect they have on shielded infantry is absolutely irrelevant compared to their absolute incapability to deal with flying units or anything large and fast. I'd rather have units that can shoot down a dragon than units that can melt Chaos Warriors slightly faster. Also, Ratling Gunners hit way more consistently because their shots can't be dodged AND they have a slowdown effect which synergizes well with other units. Bombardiers and Globadiers have nothing. They don't even inflict poison or anything similar.

    Turning them into bombs is bad, it just makes a Skaven backline all the easier to compromise.

    No, speed up their projectiles and give Globadiers and Bombardiers a lingering poison cloud effect that melts armor. Then they might have a point.
    That logic is fundamentally flawed on the basis that globadiers are the SKV answer to ironbreakers. They were never conceived as an anti-air unit and shouldn't perform on that role. Imagine if you will trying to employ grenades in an anti-air role it becomes clear the results would be less that satisfactory. A cost reduction would certainly increase their pick rates and make them more attractive.
    Agreed, I'd rather have the Globadiers be faithful to their TT rules. Ratling Gunner is already a better candidate for an AA gun anyways.
    Buddy, Ratling Gunners being always the straight better pick than Globadiers is the main issue. Globadiers are completely and utterly useless in any role.
    The poison wind globe was initially concieved as an answer to DWF ironbreakers and employed to that effect primarily around K8P. The death globe was an upgrade they could take, never a separate unit. Neither they have poison but warpstone gas nor have an AoE effect such as death globes which affected models based on a template centered around the area of impact. To pretend that they should be effective against flying units and use that as a basis to demean them is disingenuous. It's much like testing a mortar against a star dragon and considering it bad for underperfoming. Globes of either kind were never designed with fliers in mind and that reflects on its rules on TT.
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