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Achilles, Achaeans, and Aesthetics: The Art of TROY

CA_EllaCA_Ella Registered Users, Moderators, Administrators, CA Staff Mods, CA Staff, Community Team Posts: 336


Join us as we chat with art director Stoyan Stoyanov and game director Maya Georgieva about their roles, the influences and reasoning behind TROY’s unique visual style, and what it’s like making a game about one of the most iconic conflicts in history: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/achilles-achaeans-and-aesthetics-the-art-of-troy/

Comments

  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,271
    Very interesting and insightful read into the thought process behind the "truth behind the myth" approach.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 4,711
    So we're not getting an Achilles that's looking how he is supposed to. Big no for me.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,271
    neodeinos said:

    So we're not getting an Achilles that's looking how he is supposed to. Big no for me.

    I feel like neither of you actually took away the point of the blog post.

    Myth says he has long blonde hair. "Historical" record suggests he may have had short brown hair. CA struck a balance between the two: he has short brown hair in-keeping with his ethnic background, but wears a helmet in battle with a long blonde mane (like a lions). "The truth behind the myth".
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,184
    edited November 2019
    My thoughts:
    - The city of Troy looks great.
    - The Godforged Armour looks fantastic and is much better than Peleus Panoply from trailer. Hopefully AI Achilles would also be able to obtain the armor made by Hephaestus.
    - I still would prefer Achilles to look a little less like a space marine. At least give him long hair or something.
    - I love the campaign aesthetics.

    Completed ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER and THREE KINGDOMS campaigns:
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2
    Alith Anar, Belegar Ironhammer, Count Noctilus, Durthu, Eltharion, Ikit Claw, Karl Franz, Kroq-Gar, Lokhir Fellheart, Louen Leoncoeur, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, Lü Bu, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yue.
  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,958
    Is that the unit cards design?
  • 39821739175248623982173917524862 Registered Users Posts: 950
    I'm not a fan of this truth behind the myth approach at all.
  • BlaeysBlaeys Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 926
    I like the direction they are taking and the more I read, the more interested I become.

    The only decision I still question - and always will - is the exclusion of naval combat. Art from the period and the mythology both show naval combat to varying degrees. For a game centered around a sea - and around a myth that begins with the "face that launched a thousand ships," it is almost heretical to leave out naval combat.
  • nodulousnodulous Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 917
    The British Museum is holding an exhibition in London, Troy: Myth and Reality, from 21st November 2019 to 8th March 2020 if anyone is interested.

    I wonder what the Saga will make of tales of Achilles disguised as a girl trying to avoid the call to war.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041
    edited November 2019

    neodeinos said:

    So we're not getting an Achilles that's looking how he is supposed to. Big no for me.

    I feel like neither of you actually took away the point of the blog post.

    Myth says he has long blonde hair. "Historical" record suggests he may have had short brown hair. CA struck a balance between the two: he has short brown hair in-keeping with his ethnic background, but wears a helmet in battle with a long blonde mane (like a lions). "The truth behind the myth".
    I feel like you don't actually understand what you are attempting to reply to.

    Achilles is a character in greek mythology. Hard to have "Historical" records of a myth. Understand that?
    Which means if you are discussing Achilles, you are discussing him not from "Historical records", but the greek mythology story he is in, known as the lilliad. Which is what the game was inspired by.
    Thus, why people may expect him to be shown as depicted in the material.

    Simple really.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,271
    edited November 2019

    Hard to have "Historical" records of a myth. Understand that?

    Yes, I do. Which is why I put the word "historical" in quotation marks in the first place. "Historical" in this case meaning "descriptions from the long ago past, all of which should be taken with a pound of salt".

    I feel like you don't actually understand what you are attempting to reply to.

    Oh, I understand. You're saying Achilles should appear in the game as he's described according to the myth - Long blonde hair. But the game is attempting to portray the "truth behind the myth", which is what the blog post is trying to explain.

    "...both Achilles and Menelaus are described as “xanthus” – a word that can be translated as “light” or “tawny” when referring to hair or a lion’s pelt. Another reference comes again from the story of Achilles on Skyros, when while disguised as a girl his name was Pyrrha, which literally means “fiery” or “red”. So was Achilles’s hair dark, light, or reddish? Which option is the correct one, or are they all? In TROY, Achilles has dark blonde bordering on chestnut hair. It is very common in the region for people who are blonde in childhood to turn to darker hues over time and become brown or chestnut haired with a reddish tinge. That’s the option we feel fits best to our older Achilles."

    Also, about that thread you linked; Dge1 and others brought up an interesting tidbit about the "Colour controversy", where Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today.

    I mean, people accuse CA of being **** at doing their research because of "historically inaccurate" stuff, but when you actually dig into it, they actually do quite a bit.
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,184
    edited November 2019

    Also, about that thread you linked; Dge1 and others brought up an interesting tidbit about the "Colour controversy", where Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today.

    Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then might have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today. In the same thread there is an example where word xánthai means golden.

    Still, my problem with Achilles (and Hector) is that they look a little too generic (short haired, beardless men). Even if we are not sure what might have been his hair color, it was widely noted that Achilles has long hair (except when he cut them down, when he was mourning Patroclus).

    Completed ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER and THREE KINGDOMS campaigns:
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2
    Alith Anar, Belegar Ironhammer, Count Noctilus, Durthu, Eltharion, Ikit Claw, Karl Franz, Kroq-Gar, Lokhir Fellheart, Louen Leoncoeur, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, Lü Bu, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yue.
  • KalistratKalistrat Junior Member Ukraine/DnipropetrovskRegistered Users Posts: 94
    RafSwi7 said:

    My thoughts:
    - The city of Troy looks great.
    - The Godforged Armour looks fantastic and is much better than Peleus Panoply from trailer. Hopefully AI Achilles would also be able to obtain the armor made by Hephaestus.
    - I still would prefer Achilles to look a little less like a space marine. At least give him long hair or something.
    - I love the campaign aesthetics.


  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,184
    Its fine if they want older Achilles but right know Hector looks way too young compared to his enemy. He was like 15-25 years older than him. Now they look to be in similar age. Hopefully they will address it or least comment on it.

    Completed ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER and THREE KINGDOMS campaigns:
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2
    Alith Anar, Belegar Ironhammer, Count Noctilus, Durthu, Eltharion, Ikit Claw, Karl Franz, Kroq-Gar, Lokhir Fellheart, Louen Leoncoeur, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, Lü Bu, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yue.
  • neodeinosneodeinos Registered Users Posts: 4,711
    CA should've gone into full realism OR full fantasy, not that weird mix of both.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,271
    RafSwi7 said:

    Also, about that thread you linked; Dge1 and others brought up an interesting tidbit about the "Colour controversy", where Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today.

    Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then might have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today. In the same thread there is an example where word xánthai means golden.
    I honestly meant to put a "may" in there. My bad.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041

    Hard to have "Historical" records of a myth. Understand that?

    Yes, I do. Which is why I put the word "historical" in quotation marks in the first place. "Historical" in this case meaning "descriptions from the long ago past, all of which should be taken with a pound of salt".

    I feel like you don't actually understand what you are attempting to reply to.

    Also, about that thread you linked; Dge1 and others brought up an interesting tidbit about the "Colour controversy", where Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today.

    Like @RafSwi7 said Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then might have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today. In the same thread there is an example where word xánthai means golden.

    If you actually had read the thread, instead of cherry picking things, you would have seen that...
    As @Vahouth even said in the thread that the translation of
    xánthai d’ Elénai s’ eís[k]ēn
    oûden áeikes
    Comparing you to golden Helen
    is not at all inappropriate
    So, at this point you are wrong.

    You might like the way CA designed him.
    Even though it doesn't reflect how he was described, however some certainly will not.

    Remember. If you are discussing Achilles, you are discussing him not from "Historical records", but the greek mythology story he is in, known as the lilliad. Which is what the game was inspired by.

    Thus, why people may expect him to be shown as depicted in the material.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041

    Hard to have "Historical" records of a myth. Understand that?

    I feel like you don't actually understand what you are attempting to reply to.


    Also, about that thread you linked; Dge1 and others brought up an interesting tidbit about the "Colour controversy", where Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today.
    Like @RafSwi7 said Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then might have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today. In the same thread there is an example where word xánthai means golden.

    If you actually had read the thread, instead of cherry picking things, you would have seen that...
    As @Vahouth even said in the thread that the translation of
    xánthai d’ Elénai s’ eís[k]ēn
    oûden áeikes
    Comparing you to golden Helen
    is not at all inappropriate
    So, at this point you are wrong.

    You might like the way CA designed him.
    Even though it doesn't reflect how he was described, however some certainly will not.

    Remember. If you are discussing Achilles, you are discussing him not from "Historical records", but the greek mythology story he is in, known as the lilliad. Which is what the game was inspired by.

    Thus, why people may expect him to be shown as depicted in the material.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041
    edited November 2019

    RafSwi7 said:

    Also, about that thread you linked; Dge1 and others brought up an interesting tidbit about the "Colour controversy", where Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today.

    Homer's idea of what "blonde" was was back then might have been very different to our idea of what blonde is today. In the same thread there is an example where word xánthai means golden.
    I honestly meant to put a "may" in there. My bad.
    Its fine, no big deal, everyone makes mistakes.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,271
    edited November 2019

    If you actually had read the thread, instead of cherry picking things, you would have seen that...

    I'm not cherry-picking things, I'm just saying Achilles' appearance could be interpreted in a variety of different ways; there's his traditional blonde in Iliad, there's his fiery red in the story about Skyros, there's his Mediterranean/Levantine complexion that would mean he had dark hair, etc.
    Who knows, his traditional description as being "golden haired" could just as well be a reference to him being semi-divine or his physical beauty than his actual hair color.

    You might like the way CA designed him.
    Even though it doesn't reflect how he was described, however some certainly will not.

    Remember. If you are discussing Achilles, you are discussing him not from "Historical records", but the greek mythology story he is in, known as the lilliad. Which is what the game was inspired by.

    Thus, why people may expect him to be shown as depicted in the material.

    I mean, the game is inspired by the Iliad, but CA has said they're trying to look at the truth behind the myth, and I think their interpretation is a very interesting approach to that. Everything just comes back to that; this is CA's approach/interpretation.
    And refusing to buy the game because a character's hair isn't blonde enough honestly just seems like an overreaction.
    Post edited by Whiskeyjack_5691 on
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041
    edited November 2019

    If you actually had read the thread, instead of cherry picking things, you would have seen that...

    You might like the way CA designed him.
    Even though it doesn't reflect how he was described, however some certainly will not.

    Remember. If you are discussing Achilles, you are discussing him not from "Historical records", but the greek mythology story he is in, known as the lilliad. Which is what the game was inspired by.

    Thus, why people may expect him to be shown as depicted in the material.

    I mean, the game is inspired by the Iliad, but Everything just comes back to that; this is CA's approach/interpretation.
    And refusing to buy the game because a character's hair isn't blonde enough honestly just seems like an overreaction.

    Again, if you had read the thread, instead of cherry picking things you would have understood that this is more than just about his hair color.And you seem to not understand that Achilles isn't just any character, he's literally one of the two protagonists of the lilliad.

    If you'd like I can copy paste the post contents in the next post. However, It seems doubtful you'll read them or take any of it seriously if you already assume its just hair color.

    Also, as I said, You might like the way CA designed him, Even though it doesn't reflect how he was described,

    However some certainly will not.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,271
    edited November 2019


    He is described as having long blonde hair, and would have been in his youth when the trojan war began, young enough to even be disguised as a girl at the court of King Lycomedes , just before the chaos at the first gathering ensues, When Agamemnon in person was in command of the whole army, Achilles was an admiral, being fifteen years old and even had been depicted as beardless in a vase painting showing Achilles bandaging Patroklos wound. Achilles would have only been 23 once the greek army made landfall in troas (the land of troy). And he died a decade later in the last year of the war, which means he would have been 33 at the time of death.

    However, this "pretender" that is featured in-game has black short hair, black facial hair, and an older, grizzled, seasoned, veteran of war look. Not youthful in the slightest. You've even managed to make Achilles and hector look alike.

    Well, the guy has been fighting in the front lines of a war for years; he's bound to be looking a bit grizzled and seasoned after all of that. And as CA themselves said:

    What people often forget is that the Trojan War encompasses a very long period of time.” Maya explains. “In the Iliad, at the funeral of Hector Helen says “This is now the twentieth year from the time when I went from thence and am gone from my native land” – which means that if Achilles was about 14 or 15 when he managed to pass as a girl on Skyros, on the fields of Troy he’d be around 35 – a fully grown man who has spent much of his life wearing heavy bronze armour.”
    As the characters of TROY don’t change their appearance in order to show the passage of time, the team elected to have a mature depiction of Achilles rather than a boyish one – although they made sure to retain the legendary athleticism he’s famed for."


    They're trying to convey a more grounded approach to the story. With Achilles they seem to aiming for a warrior with years of experience under his belt, and - although not a spring chicken anymore - is still in his prime.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,041
    Just to make sure that no one actually believes "its just hair color".

    He is described as having long blonde hair, and would have been in his youth when the trojan war began, young enough to even be disguised as a girl at the court of King Lycomedes , just before the chaos at the first gathering ensues, When Agamemnon in person was in command of the whole army, Achilles was an admiral, being fifteen years old and even had been depicted as beardless in a vase painting showing Achilles bandaging Patroklos wound. Achilles would have only been 23 once the greek army made landfall in troas (the land of troy). And he died a decade later in the last year of the war, which means he would have been 33 at the time of death.



    However, this "pretender" that is featured in-game has black short hair, black facial hair, and an older, grizzled, seasoned, veteran of war look. Not youthful in the slightest. You've even managed to make Achilles and hector look alike.






    It's pathetic.
    A generic mockery of the depiction of Achilles.
    Its sad that even hollywood's Troy had a better rendition of Achilles and Hector, yet you're supposed to be the ones with "years of experience" in historical accuracy. You don't have to get everything perfect, but at least get the centerpieces right.



    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,132
    edited November 2019
    "Which option is the correct one, or are they all? In TROY, Achilles has dark blonde bordering on chestnut hair. It "

    didn't look all that dark blonde bordering chestnut for many here... looked more in the area of "Black"

    and for the in game model as shown... what hair? It seems to be all hidden underneath the helmet (so, no long har), aside of some dark beard stubbles...
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. Moving Balthasar Gelt to Solland was a bad call for a new Starting Position. If they wanted a LL in the Southern Empire it should've been Marius Leitdorf of Averland

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him?

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,184
    edited November 2019


    Well, the guy has been fighting in the front lines of a war for years; he's bound to be looking a bit grizzled and seasoned after all of that. And as CA themselves said:

    What people often forget is that the Trojan War encompasses a very long period of time.” Maya explains. “In the Iliad, at the funeral of Hector Helen says “This is now the twentieth year from the time when I went from thence and am gone from my native land” – which means that if Achilles was about 14 or 15 when he managed to pass as a girl on Skyros, on the fields of Troy he’d be around 35 – a fully grown man who has spent much of his life wearing heavy bronze armour.”
    As the characters of TROY don’t change their appearance in order to show the passage of time, the team elected to have a mature depiction of Achilles rather than a boyish one – although they made sure to retain the legendary athleticism he’s famed for."


    They're trying to convey a more grounded approach to the story. With Achilles they seem to aiming for a warrior with years of experience under his belt, and - although not a spring chicken anymore - is still in his prime.

    With reasons behind Achilles age in Troy revealed, I am little afraid that they will mess up characters ages in Troy. We already have older Achilles and based on trailer we will see younger Hector. If they want 35 years old Achilles, they should have 45-55 years old Hector. I would also mean that Helen should be probably 40-45 years old since she was older than Achilles.

    It makes me worried how they will handle ages of other characters from Trojan War stories. For Helen I am sure they won't design her appearance that will be consistent with Achilles appearance in the game.

    In my opinion they should have chosen one point of Trojan War and on this "date" base appearance and age of all characters.

    I would also say they don't have to be 100% faithful to Iliad, since dates are always a little messed up in mythology but the fact that Achilles should look younger than Hector, Paris or Helen should be presented in the game.


    Completed ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER and THREE KINGDOMS campaigns:
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2
    Alith Anar, Belegar Ironhammer, Count Noctilus, Durthu, Eltharion, Ikit Claw, Karl Franz, Kroq-Gar, Lokhir Fellheart, Louen Leoncoeur, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, Lü Bu, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yue.
  • Whiskeyjack_5691Whiskeyjack_5691 Registered Users Posts: 3,271
    Another little interesting tidbit I noticed; in the reveal trailer and the campaign map reveal trailer (about 1:05) that Achilles is wearing the "Peleus Panoply" armour (CA's nickname for his early game armour at the start of the Trojan War), which has a red mane reminiscent and symbolic of his description of being "fiery" or red-haired in his youth.

    Then later on in the campaign (toward the end of the Trojan War), he earns the "Godforged Armour", which has a golden mane to symbolize his traditional description of being blonde during the war.

    In a funny way, you could actually look at Achilles physical appearance in the game as CA's "truth behind the myth" approach (or "hair under the helmet" Hehehe...).
    He wears light armour and a helmet with a red mane in the early game symbolizing his fiery youth and athleticism at the outset of the war, heavy armour and a helmet with a golden mane in the late game symbolizing him maturing into an experienced warrior and the man who would become immortalized at the end of the war, but underneath it all is just a mortal, dark-haired man from the Mediterranean. Pretty cool take, if you ask me.
  • EfixEfix Registered Users Posts: 269
    Can't wait for the blog trying to salvage Hector look next.... The architecture assets looks very good on the other hands, I hope its the Attila design team working on the layouts.
  • Psycho_VPsycho_V Registered User Registered Users Posts: 513
    Thank you Maya and Stoyan. Some interesting info there.

    The art style is looking great. Will the changing climate be depicted. The climate was cooling and drying.
    After santorini, the whole area from the Med to China was heavily clouded for almost a year.

    The heavy armour is looking more akin to period design


    And Archilles is one unique charater who can be afforded a little creative license.



    The late armour is looking much improved and less stylised Romano-Art Deco, like Microsoft's Ryse:



    As long as the reaminder of the units, culture, artwork is closer to history.

    my2bob




    "Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE!" - (John Donne, 1572 – 1631, Meditation 17)
  • LeftyTwogunsLeftyTwoguns Registered Users Posts: 1
    I think what his face and hair look like is a pretty trivial thing to be obsessed with or for CA to spend an extended period of time on.

    Achilles will be ONE person among thousands or even tens of thousands on a zoomed out battlefield. The details of his face and hair are pointless. What matters is how he stands out from the crowd, his frame and silhouette being immediately recognizable. The god armor they designed for him does exactly that and I'm sure it looks even better with particle effects and all that. The other part of the equation will be his animations so hopefully they go all out on that too.
  • johncagejohncage Registered Users Posts: 256
    edited May 3
    at the end of the day, the mouth breathing common denominator will win out every time. game companies, because the industry is so mainstream nowadays, will never go back to the days of making games appealing to autists/aspergers. you know the kind of people that can actually look at historical sources and understand why one depiction is not as accurate as another. as opposed to "normies" who wouldn't be able to know much less appreciate the difference if you wrote an essay showing them what's wrong.

    troy already looks like fantasy **** from the art they've released so i think it's going to be three kingdoms level of accuracy. ie, semi accurate, with a lot of armor details wrong or missing because they can't be arsed to reference historical sources and cross reference recreations for more than 5 seconds so we get these shoddy lazily done "inspired" designs that are anything but inspired. in fact they resemble the foam toys people used as props in 50s movies. it's bland, it's cliche, you're not doing anything new or interesting.

    now to do something completely accurate down to the rivet positioning? that's doing something truly orginal, considering outside of autismal indie artisy on art station, no professional devs are bothering with that. it's almost like working in a cubical with deadlines rather than working for love and passion literally saps their talent and produces **** rather than gold. or maybe ca is just intentionally picking artists who can't do accurate historical models worth a damn, in which case i must ask, wtf not? there are tons of talent out there who can, hire them instead of the dunderheads you have now who couldn't model accurate armor to save their life. i don't want to be immersed in some early 2000s hollywood fantasy of troy, i want to be in the freaking ancient anatolia, got it?
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