Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

TILEA army list from official sources

DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior MemberPosts: 398Registered Users


I made this list as I hope for Tilea as a faction and because I don’t think anyone else is going to make one. First:
  • Tilea provides a rich and flavorful army with a new playstyle, predominantly based around pike and shot (with crossbows), with highly mobile artillery units and hard hitting infantry (gladiators).
  • Since CA has stated that they want to focus on official armies, all of the below units are Games Workshop official.
  • Some of these units are from the dogs of war army books. The dogs of war have a ton of units and TIlea does not – only makes sense to implement most of them for Tilea. Thus, the only Tilean Dogs of War units not on this list are The Alcatani Fellowship and Leopold's Leopard Company, as they are both pike units and the Tilean army hardly need 4 units of pikes.
  • The cult of of Morr and most units associated with it should be in the Tilean roster, including Knighs of Morr. The cult of Morr has its chapter house in Tilea and is generally bigger here than in the Empire.

Legendary lords

Borgio the Besieger

Borgio, Prince of Miragliano, nicknamed “The Besieger” because of his unsurpassed expertise in siege warfare, is the deceased ruler of Miragliano and was once one of the greatest Mercenary General of his age.



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Borgio_the_Besieger

Lorenzo Lupo

Lorenzo Lupo, Prince of Lucinni is the current ruler of the city-state of Luccini and a descedant of that city's ancient founders. Lorenzo wears armour of the old-fashioned style and fights on foot in the manner of his ancestors. This is a strange eccentricity of his and would be considered quaint and maybe even ridiculous by his rivals if he wasn't so good a general and didn't beat them so regularly. Instead, his reputation for bravery and fighting hand-to-hand in the front rank of his troops has earned him the respect and awe of his enemies.



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lorenzo_Lupo

Albertalli

General Albertalli was the leader of the Tilean mercenary regiments that fought alongside General Pavian at Krasicyno--during which Albertalli's countrymen held the line for three hours straight and later led the charge against the Kurgan line at Mazhorod in 2522 IC. He is described as a dark-haired man with swarthy skin, his moustache waxed in an elaborate upward curl.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Albertalli

Bibino Ortichino

The third son of a Tilean prince, Bibino "The Count" Ortichino lost his inheritance when his promised parcel of land was claimed by an Estalian margrave as hostage ransom. After receiving the news, Bibino found and killed the Estalian, then fled to Sartosa to avoid reprisals. Bibino's crew followed him eastward to the Border Princes, where ancient Nehekharan gold was rumoured to be buried

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Bibino_Ortichino

Legendary heroes

Leonardo da Miragliano

Leonardo is neither a general nor a wizard. He is a scientist, and his genius is illuminated by the light of reason and method, not superstition! Therefore, Leonardo does not have magic items. Instead, he has Scientific Items, reflecting his expertise as an inventor and investigator. These items are not affected by anything that normally affects or negates magic items



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Leonardo_da_Miragliano

Marco Colombo

in: Dogs of War Characters, Tilean Characters, M, C Marco Colombo English EDIT COMMENTS (2) SHARE Marco Colombo Miniature 2 Marco Columbo Marco Colombo is best known as the explorer who "discovered" Lustria, although it was really discovered years before by the Norse.Marco is an expert huntsman with the crossbow, who enjoys chasing big game and gigantic monsters on his tropical expeditions. Marco is armed with a crossbow which he can use while mounted and may move and shoot from the saddle. Marco has a special high-power telescope which he uses at sea. It is so powerful that he can use it to spy out hidden enemy troops lurking in cover or in the midst of a regiment



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Marco_Colombo

Lucrezzia Belladonna

The most beautiful woman in all of Tilea, and some say even the whole of the Old World, is Lucrezzia Belladonna. She is also the most dangerous to know! Lucrezzia is a renowned sorceress and rumoured to be an arch poisoner, mistress of many assassins!



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Lucrezzia_Belladonna

Heroes

Pit King

(From Mordheim tabletob & Town Cryer Issue 2) The Pit King is the leader of the warband. He is a very renowned warrior; a spectacular fighter used to pleasing the baying crowd with his martial display and bloody triumphs. He has managed to buy or free enough fellow pit fighters to start a warband of his own. He’s the smartest and toughest pit fighter around and will fight anybody who puts his position in danger. He is held in a mixture of awe and fear by his fellows and his loyalty to his men is undisputed

Priest of Morr

The Priests Of Morr Are As Feared On The Battlefield As They Are Among The Populace. Few Empire Warriors Openly Welcome The Messengers Of Lord Of Dreams, Yet Their Fear Is Nothing Compared To The Aura Of Dread The Priests Of Morr Can Project Upon The Enemies Of Mankind.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cult_of_Morr

Melee cavalry

Freelance Knights/Freelancers

(From White Dwarf 331 & Mordheim tabletob) Just as Warriors of lower social orders can become Mercenaries, Squires or Nobles may offer their skills for hire by becoming a Free Lance. Essentially, Free Lances are either titled aristocrats with a taste for adventure or expert cavalrymen from the lower orders who offer to place themselves on the front line of battle.



Knights Encarmine

The Knights Encarmine are a flamboyant, foppish band of warriors founded by rich dilettante Frederici Tolscano of Tilea in 2310 IC. The Order is exclusively comprised entirely of the rich and privileged. Each member of the order maintains a brilliant suit of red plate armour topped by a tricolor plumage of green, white and red. As the paint coating the armour chips away easily, the suit must be constantly repainted after each action in order to maintain appearances. Members of the Knights Encarmine eschew the "lowly" shield, as it is a "commoner's defence" to hide behind a metallic barrier in battle. Instead, the Knights Encarmine practice a secretive two sword combat technique pioneered in Tilea. One sword acts as a deflection tool, while the other strikes the deathblow.



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Knights_Encarmine

Knights of Magritta

The Knights of Magritta are a secret society with members throughout the Old World, but strongest in Tilea and the Empire.



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Knights_of_Magritta

Knights of Morr

The Black Guard of Morr which chapter house is located in TIlea inspires feelings of fear and dread in both friends and foes alike. The combination of their all-enclosing black, obsidian plate armour and their vow of silence makes their presence unsettling, and many whisper that they are really Undead spirits bound into the service of the Cult of Morr by its priests.



https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Knights_of_Morr

Venators (ROR Voland's Venators)

(From Dogs of war 5th edition) Venators are a famous band of Dogs of War mercenaries whose reputation as the best cavalrymen in all of Tilea exceeds that of even veteran knights of the Empire or some say, even Bretonnia itself. These brass armored band of renegades, exiles, and disposed son's of nobles and lords are expert cavalrymen

Flying War Machines

Ornithopter

(From Spears of the Maiden) Originally invented by Daddallo of Verezzo, Ornithopters are a unique form of Tilean motivation. While the original model was built from bedsheets and salvaged bits of furniture, over the years these contraptions have become more and more elaborate with flapping canvas wings powered by foot stirrups, leaving the pilot’s arms free



Birdmen (ROR Birdmen of Catrazza)

(From Spears of the Maiden & Dogs of war 5th edition) Perhaps the most unusual type of mercenary in Tilea is the Catrazzan Birdman, who glides through the sky on a pedalpowered Ornithopter whilst shooting at enemies with his crossbows. Following the example of the famous inventor Daddallo, these dedicated warriors are among some of the best shots in all of Tilea, well-versed in the principles of modern science and engineering.

Missile infantry

Besiegers (ROR Braganza's Besiegers)

(Dogs of war 5th edition) Braganza's Besiegers are a famous band of Dogs of War mercenaries that hails from the Tilean city-state of Miragliano, trained and maintained as heavily armored Crossbowmen. These veteran crossbowmen are typically equipped with thick plate Armour that protects the Besiegers from most harms, allowing them to fight against their foe's both in range and melee combat. The mercenary company uses a certain type of shield called a Pavise, which acts as a carriable shield either strapped into the Besiegers back, to protect the crossbowen while they reload, or stacked them up in a line to act as a make-shift barricade



Crossbowmen/Marksmen (ROR Marksmen of Miragliano)

(From White Dwarf 331 & Dogs of war white dwarf supplement) The crossbow has always been the favoured weapon in Tilea because its long range allows troops to shoot from high positions on the ramparts and across moats and ditches into the enemy hordes. Crossbow bolts are powerful enough to pierce armour and inflict mortal wounds on tough and determined opponents.



Pursuers

(From Mordheim Tabletop) Pursuers are a special martial type of pit fighter often used for ‘warm-up fights’ before the main show. These men are usually lightly armed with spears, nets and javelins with which they harry their enemies in a hit and run style of warfare. This style of fighting dates back to ancient times in Tilea when gladiators, as they were known in the Tilean tongue, would fight in massive stone arenas to huge crowds of citizens baying for blood.

Melee infantry

Republican Guard (ROR Ricco's Republican Guard)

(From Spears of the Maiden & Dogs of war 5th edition) Unique to the City-State of Remas, the Republican Guard are the guardians and soldiers of the Senate. Backed by the tax money taken from powerful merchants, the Republican Guard are equipped with the finest armour and weapons money can buy. Traditionally each Republican Guard also wears scarves of the finest red silk to represent the bloodied bandages of those Republican Guard injured or lost in battle. It has become fashionable for the adoring ladies of Remas to donate these scarves as a sign of their gratitude for the services of the Republican Guard. The Republican Guard patrol the most important areas of the city of Remas, but they are also tasked with enforcing the will of the Triumvirate



Pikemen/Tilean Pike (ROR Cornetto's pikes)

(From Spears of the Maiden & Dogs of war white dwarf supplement) The Pikemen (picchieri in Tilean) are the characteristic Tilean mercenaries - their twenty-foot long heavy polearms are the bane of cavalry units everywhere. There are numerous famous Pikemen mercenary companies throughout Tilea that sometimes wander off to distant lands in search of better pay. Pikemen usually see themselves as an elite among other infantry troops, an attitude which can sometimes lead to drunken brawls in taverns frequented by mercenaries.



Duellists (ROR Vespero's vendetta)

(From Warhammer Fantasy RPG 4th ED & Dogs of war white dwarf supplement) Duellists are famous for their fighting prowess, either with hand-to-hand weapons such as swords or with missile weapons. The Duellist's favourite weapons are the fencing sword and the duelling pistol, a primitive and unreliable gunpowder weapon, whose propensity to explode does not endear it to sane people.



Deepwatch

(From Warhammer Fantasy RPD 2nd ED -- Warhammer Companion) The Deepwatch are both the first and last line of defence between Tobaro and the threats it faces from below. The city authorities paint service in the Deepwatch as glamorous, a life of heroics and adventure in the tunnels beneath the city.

Pit fighters

(From Mordheim tabletob & Town Cryer Issue 2) Pit fighters are close combat specialists armed with a variety of weapons and armour. Usually they are fairly heavily armoured and equipped with sword and shield, although sometimes they will be skilled in the use of two-handed weapons.



https://www.hong-crewet.dk/Mordheim/Warbands/Pit_Fighters.pdf

Ogre pit fighters

(From Mordheim tabletob & Town Cryer Issue 2) Ogres are large brutish creatures standing some ten feet tall, and all of it is bone and muscle. It is unsurprising then that they are one of the most brutal and feared of all pit fighters. These massive, savage fighters are often called upon to fight such fearsome beasts as captured Trolls in some of the most incredible bouts held at the pits

https://www.hong-crewet.dk/Mordheim/Warbands/Pit_Fighters.pdf

Legionaires (ROR Pirazzo's lost legion)

(From Dogs of war 5th edition) I’l like to see these unit as a sword unit. Pirazzo's Lost Legion is all that remains of a expeditions sent to Lustria by the Merchants of Tobaro. The regiments in Tobaro were amongst the most reckless poverty-stricken youths of the city. The promise of untold wealth to be found in the jungles of Lustria was a temptation none could resist and they joined by the droves to be part of this magnificent expeditions



Henchmen

(From Old World Armoury) Gold goes a long way, but rude and careless leaders, irregular pay, and an unusual amount of danger can all factor into how a henchman perceives his boss and whether or not he’ll abandon his employer in a tight spot. Many GMs may wing loyalty, roleplaying the henchman’s attitude in response to the PCs. Should basically be a connon fodder unit.

https://www.hong-crewet.dk/Mordheim/Warbands/Pit_Fighters.pdf

The Black Guard (of Morr)

Black guard are greatswords In all respects, committed to fighting in the name of Morr.

War machines

War Altar of Morr

(From White Dwarf September 2013) War Altars Of Morr Are Often Constructed Around Icons From The Gardens Of Morr, Which Are Then Used To Bind Those Whom Morr Most Despises: The Undead. As A Focal Point For The Devotion Of His Followers, The War Altar Is Anathema To The Undead And Those Who Seek To Steal The Souls Under His Protection.

Artillery

Galloper Guns (Bronzino's Galloper Guns)

(From Dogs of war 5th edition) First serving under the leadership of the Tilean Merchant Prince Borgio "the Besieger", the Galloper Guns were in fact, lightweight cannons removed from their mountings on the galleys of Remnas and fixed onto specially made carriages, allowing for rapid deployment during the heat of battle



Ballista

(From Spears of the Maiden) Horse drawn to keep with the mobility.





Scorpio

(From Spears of the Maiden) Horse drawn to keep with the mobility.



Cannon

(from Dogs of war white dwarf supplement) Since Dogs of War armies are always on the move, they cannot afford to carry and maintain the massive Great Cannons typical of the Empire. For this reason, lighter, easy to move, small caliber guns are a treasured element.

«1

Comments

  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users
    Technically Borgio isn't dead at the time the campaign supposedly launches. On the other hand, both Leonardo da Miragliano and Marco Colombo are long dead at this point so I wouldn't expect to see either of them included in a potential Race.

    Lucrezzia is also listed as a Lord character by all sources and has just as much justification to lead an army than any of the other characters you mentioned. In fact she'd provide a bit of variety, being a caster, compared to the 4 "melee-general" archetype characters in your list.

    I'm on mobile at the moment, so I'll do a more in depth analysis of this list when I get back to my PC.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior Member Posts: 398Registered Users
    Ol_Nessie said:

    Technically Borgio isn't dead at the time the campaign supposedly launches. On the other hand, both Leonardo da Miragliano and Marco Colombo are long dead at this point so I wouldn't expect to see either of them included in a potential Race.

    Lucrezzia is also listed as a Lord character by all sources and has just as much justification to lead an army than any of the other characters you mentioned. In fact she'd provide a bit of variety, being a caster, compared to the 4 "melee-general" archetype characters in your list.

    I'm on mobile at the moment, so I'll do a more in depth analysis of this list when I get back to my PC.

    That may be but they both have rules in the Dogs of War army book as well as miniatures so I wouldn't say it's far fetched to include them.

    Yes, Lucrezzia would be a caster.



  • AsamuAsamu Posts: 581Registered Users
    Missing units that were in the TT list:
    paymaster (Hero)
    Hireling Wizard/Wizard Lord (Hero/lord)
    Mercenary captain/General (hero/general)
    Paymaster's Bodyguard - semi-elite/elite halberd unit (elite for humans; they had better stats than greatswords, just worse armour), they were better than empire halberds on TT and had options for shields and heavy armour.
    Light cavalry - Pretty much the same as Mtd yeomen on TT, but with better leadership.

    The roster was actually pretty complete on TT, with as many options as most of the fully developed armies before counting all the regiments of renown.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Posts: 402Registered Users
    Where is the point of a special Tilean army? DoW pretty explicitly states that they rely on mercenary armies. So the Dogs already are the tilean army in a sense. With some additional stuff the DoW would just have more to offer.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users
    DerPhonix said:

    Ol_Nessie said:

    Technically Borgio isn't dead at the time the campaign supposedly launches. On the other hand, both Leonardo da Miragliano and Marco Colombo are long dead at this point so I wouldn't expect to see either of them included in a potential Race.

    Lucrezzia is also listed as a Lord character by all sources and has just as much justification to lead an army than any of the other characters you mentioned. In fact she'd provide a bit of variety, being a caster, compared to the 4 "melee-general" archetype characters in your list.

    I'm on mobile at the moment, so I'll do a more in depth analysis of this list when I get back to my PC.

    That may be but they both have rules in the Dogs of War army book as well as miniatures so I wouldn't say it's far fetched to include them.
    Yes, they did have rules and minis but TT was designed so you could set your battles in a wide variety of settings and time periods. GW published a wide variety of scenarios such as the War of Vengeance, the Sundering, the Great War Against Chaos, etc. so that players could reenact "historical" events. TW:WH on the other hand is very firmly set in the final 20 or so years of the setting, starting in the year of Karl Franz's coronation in 2502. Marco Colombo had been dead for nearly 1,000 years at that point and Leonardo had been dead for over 400. For other characters, particularly the undead, it makes sense sometimes to resurrect them since the rules governing their lifespans are much more fluid, but mortal humans with no particular supernatural advantage should remain dead.

    On the whole though, I agree with much of your list. I too condone extrapolating regular units from some of the RoRs such as Siege Marksmen from Braganza's Besiegers and Legionnaires from Pirazzo's Lost Legion (though I'd advocate them keeping their pikes and crossbows). I especially like the use of more colorful names for some of the generic units such as Freelancers as opposed to the dull "Heavy Cavalry" of the WD DoW list, and Marksmen instead of crossbowmen.

    That's not to say I don't have critiques. I'd hesitate to include many varieties of Knights in their army. Firstly, it'd make them play very similar to either the Empire or Bretonnia when CA should be doing everything they can to emphasize the differences between those two and another race of European-ish men. Secondly, since Tilea does rely quite heavily on mercenaries it should be quite rare to find Knights in the army since, apart from the obvious exceptions of Voland's Venators and the like, as landed and wealthy nobles Knights don't often have to take up mercenary work.

    I'd also advocate replacing the "Republican Guard" in your list with the Paymaster's Bodyguard as the latter are supported in the more offical DoW WD list. Ricco's Republican Guard could still be the RoR. In a similar vein and in regards to your comments on the Alcatani Fellowship and Leopold's Leopard Company, I don't see why we can't have our cake and eat it; Tilean Pikemen had the option to take heavy armor and as such would be represented as two different units should they be implemented in TW:WH. Therefore the Alcatani Fellowship could be the RoR for standard Pikemen and Leopold's Leopard Company could be the RoR for Armored Pikemen (since LLC were also equipped with heavy armor).
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,390Registered Users
    edited November 10
    List looks awesome! Can’t wait for DoW and Southern Realms. CA has a good base with that list and can still dig out some units from the lore.

    We should also keep in mind that CA can add Amazon, Albion, Halfling and Araby units, like they did with Fimir for Norsca.
    Post edited by ArneSo on
  • FrostPawFrostPaw Junior Member Posts: 1,064Registered Users
    Nice list, I have no issue with Tilea being added, however I'd prefer to see Kislev for game 3 inclusion sooner.
  • AsamuAsamu Posts: 581Registered Users
    edited November 10

    Where is the point of a special Tilean army? DoW pretty explicitly states that they rely on mercenary armies. So the Dogs already are the tilean army in a sense. With some additional stuff the DoW would just have more to offer.

    Yes, their armies were mercenaries, but the majority of their mercenaries were from Tilea itself.
    Dogs of War is just a catch all term for mercenary companies around the WH world, most of which were hired as parts of Tilean armies, which is why the roster was a mostly human units, like a basic empire roster, and some mercenary non-human units (Ogres, Marauders, Halflings, Dwarfs).
    The Dogs of War army book (and white dwarf supplements for it) was a collection of the core Tilean roster and a bunch of renowned mercenary companies, which were mostly hired/sold by Tilean merchant princes.

    They can't really call the faction "Dogs of War" on the campaign map - the factions on the map would probably be named after the Tilean cities or specific regiments of renown; the ones hiring the armies. And because the core roster and legendary lords are Tilean, it makes more sense to refer to the potential total war faction as such.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,390Registered Users
    Pretty much what @Asamu said.

    DoW would just serve as source material. The faction would still be some sorts of city states or Expeditions. The mercenary aspect should only be represented in the unit roster in my opinion.

    So as Borgio in ME, you play the City State of Miragliano and not just a warband of mercenaries.
  • RiskafishRiskafish Posts: 322Registered Users
    Great work

    Ornithopter picture had me laughing aswell :D
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users
    Asamu said:

    They can't really call the faction "Dogs of War" on the campaign map - the factions on the map would probably be named after the Tilean cities or specific regiments of renown; the ones hiring the armies. And because the core roster and legendary lords are Tilean, it makes more sense to refer to the potential total war faction as such.

    ArneSo said:

    DoW would just serve as source material. The faction would still be some sorts of city states or Expeditions. The mercenary aspect should only be represented in the unit roster in my opinion.

    Well CA is in a bit of a pickle then since the Tilean cities aren't on either the Vortex map or the suspected territory of WH3's standalone campaign. They will have to divine a solution which permits them to exist on the standalone campaign for whichever game they're sold for (either as the preorder bonus on WH2 or a core race/campaign pack for WH3). In that respect, I think some kind of expeditionary focus would be entirely appropriate for the character of this potential race and would emphasize the mercenary aspect further, instead of diminishing it.


    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • CrossilCrossil Posts: 4,468Registered Users
    edited November 10
    Ol_Nessie said:

    Asamu said:

    They can't really call the faction "Dogs of War" on the campaign map - the factions on the map would probably be named after the Tilean cities or specific regiments of renown; the ones hiring the armies. And because the core roster and legendary lords are Tilean, it makes more sense to refer to the potential total war faction as such.

    ArneSo said:

    DoW would just serve as source material. The faction would still be some sorts of city states or Expeditions. The mercenary aspect should only be represented in the unit roster in my opinion.

    Well CA is in a bit of a pickle then since the Tilean cities aren't on either the Vortex map or the suspected territory of WH3's standalone campaign. They will have to divine a solution which permits them to exist on the standalone campaign for whichever game they're sold for (either as the preorder bonus on WH2 or a core race/campaign pack for WH3). In that respect, I think some kind of expeditionary focus would be entirely appropriate for the character of this potential race and would emphasize the mercenary aspect further, instead of diminishing it.


    Jaego Roth and Morgan Bernhardt in the New World. Jaego sailed there with his Grand Alliance to fight Noctilus(going to Nehekhara and Araby at least) and Morgan campaigned into Nehekhara to take on the Dread King.

    Put Borgio and Lucrezzia somewhere in New World Colonies or elsewhere and done.
    UNLEASH THE EVERCHARIOT
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,390Registered Users
    @Ol_Nessie
    Well if we look at Khalida it makes also no sense to have a faction called „court of Lybaras“ not starting in Lybaras, but on the other side of the world.

    It worked for her so I don’t see a problem with a faction called „Miragliano“ or „Mercenaries of Miragliano“ starting somewhere in the Darklands for the „vortex“ campaign. Pigbarter or The Sentinels would be a good start position. Just explain that Borgio went on another expedition into the dark lands in the intro and that’s it.

    For the combined campaign we should at least get one DoW faction in the Old world. Miragliano as a major capital is the best option.
  • DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior Member Posts: 398Registered Users

    Where is the point of a special Tilean army? DoW pretty explicitly states that they rely on mercenary armies. So the Dogs already are the tilean army in a sense. With some additional stuff the DoW would just have more to offer.

    The way I look at it is that we could have both Tilea and Dogs of War as factions. The Dogs of War army could be anywhere and fight for anything depending on who pays. Whereas the TIlean army is the standard for TIlea.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,173Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    @Ol_Nessie
    Well if we look at Khalida it makes also no sense to have a faction called „court of Lybaras“ not starting in Lybaras, but on the other side of the world.

    It worked for her so I don’t see a problem with a faction called „Miragliano“ or „Mercenaries of Miragliano“ starting somewhere in the Darklands for the „vortex“ campaign. Pigbarter or The Sentinels would be a good start position. Just explain that Borgio went on another expedition into the dark lands in the intro and that’s it.

    For the combined campaign we should at least get one DoW faction in the Old world. Miragliano as a major capital is the best option.

    Well it makes sense if you consider that Lybaras isn't on the Vortex map. Though I have no problem with Borgio returning to Miragliano for ME. But that still leaves the remainder of the LLs far removed from Tilea on both ME and whichever standalone campaign they play on. And with it being nearly impossible to accurately place any of the potential LLs (depending on who they pick) on either WH2 or WH3's standalones, they will have to lean into the mercenary aspect of the race regardless, as opposed to shying away from it.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • AsamuAsamu Posts: 581Registered Users
    edited November 10
    Ol_Nessie said:

    Asamu said:

    They can't really call the faction "Dogs of War" on the campaign map - the factions on the map would probably be named after the Tilean cities or specific regiments of renown; the ones hiring the armies. And because the core roster and legendary lords are Tilean, it makes more sense to refer to the potential total war faction as such.

    ArneSo said:

    DoW would just serve as source material. The faction would still be some sorts of city states or Expeditions. The mercenary aspect should only be represented in the unit roster in my opinion.

    Well CA is in a bit of a pickle then since the Tilean cities aren't on either the Vortex map or the suspected territory of WH3's standalone campaign. They will have to divine a solution which permits them to exist on the standalone campaign for whichever game they're sold for (either as the preorder bonus on WH2 or a core race/campaign pack for WH3). In that respect, I think some kind of expeditionary focus would be entirely appropriate for the character of this potential race and would emphasize the mercenary aspect further, instead of diminishing it.
    Who says that map of the darklands is what the WH3 campaign will actually be on? If it's only the darklands, it'd be a bit limiting in terms of faction diversity. They could very easily scale down the old world a bit, extending the map to include Skavenblight and the empire in its entirety, along with most or all of Norsca; just chopping off Bretonnia and some of the southlands.

    I'd actually be surprised if it doesn't include a sizeable chunk of the old world, because the empire is such a huge part of the game. It could very easily include Tilea, though with the armies being comprised of mercenaries, there's an excuse to put them almost anywhere anyway. Many of the rogue armies are named after regiments of renown from the Dogs of War book.

    CA did say at one point that they'd like to do Dogs of War, IIRC, and there was that slip of the tongue during one of their streams, so it's not at all out of the realm of possibility like Araby, which they've pretty much confirmed is not happening. Also, while not a "core" faction, it is an actual full fledged faction on tabletop.

    By the original plan that was leaked, the WH3 map was probably planned as the old world at release, with the Dark Lands and Mountains of mourn being added on later, because Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres were planned as DLC factions. The odds are pretty high that things have changed, but pretty much everything at this point is speculation.
  • bolero567bolero567 Posts: 14Registered Users

    Where is the point of a special Tilean army? DoW pretty explicitly states that they rely on mercenary armies. So the Dogs already are the tilean army in a sense. With some additional stuff the DoW would just have more to offer.

    Same reason Chaos Warriors and Norsca were split: too many potential units for a single total war faction + obvious geographic subtheme to plan a spin-off DLC. Though I personally would like a "Southern Realms" DLC with more Border Princes and Estalian units as well as Tilean. Borgio/Lucrezzia/Lorenzo for Tilea, Lietpold and Gashnag for Border Princes and an OC creative assembly Lord for Estalia. Perhaps based on Don Quixote, or similar Iberian themed character.

    I imagine there'd be some crossover with a Dogs of War roster, given both the Southern Realms and Dogs of War units would mostly be available to other factions anyway as mercenary units. Araby/Albion/Amazons could get a couple of units each for a Dogs of War roster, plus non southern realms units from the tabletop army list, plus who knows what? CA wouldn't have much trouble coming up with a complete roster for a standalone Dogs of War DLC.

    An accompanying minicampaign included with the Southern Realms DLC would be the icing on the cake.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Posts: 402Registered Users
    Asamu said:

    Where is the point of a special Tilean army? DoW pretty explicitly states that they rely on mercenary armies. So the Dogs already are the tilean army in a sense. With some additional stuff the DoW would just have more to offer.

    Yes, their armies were mercenaries, but the majority of their mercenaries were from Tilea itself.
    Dogs of War is just a catch all term for mercenary companies around the WH world, most of which were hired as parts of Tilean armies, which is why the roster was a mostly human units, like a basic empire roster, and some mercenary non-human units (Ogres, Marauders, Halflings, Dwarfs).
    The Dogs of War army book (and white dwarf supplements for it) was a collection of the core Tilean roster and a bunch of renowned mercenary companies, which were mostly hired/sold by Tilean merchant princes.

    They can't really call the faction "Dogs of War" on the campaign map - the factions on the map would probably be named after the Tilean cities or specific regiments of renown; the ones hiring the armies. And because the core roster and legendary lords are Tilean, it makes more sense to refer to the potential total war faction as such.
    Then why Tilea and not Southern Realms or something similar (which could include Marienburg)? I mean they are all very similar in the way they operate. Small states which mostly rely on mercenaries and sometimes simple hired thugs for their military activities.
    DerPhonix said:

    Where is the point of a special Tilean army? DoW pretty explicitly states that they rely on mercenary armies. So the Dogs already are the tilean army in a sense. With some additional stuff the DoW would just have more to offer.

    The way I look at it is that we could have both Tilea and Dogs of War as factions. The Dogs of War army could be anywhere and fight for anything depending on who pays. Whereas the TIlean army is the standard for TIlea.
    DerPhonix said:

    Where is the point of a special Tilean army? DoW pretty explicitly states that they rely on mercenary armies. So the Dogs already are the tilean army in a sense. With some additional stuff the DoW would just have more to offer.

    The way I look at it is that we could have both Tilea and Dogs of War as factions. The Dogs of War army could be anywhere and fight for anything depending on who pays. Whereas the TIlean army is the standard for TIlea.
    But there isn't a tilean army. The city states seem to entirely rely on mercs, in an adaptation of renaissance Italy. They also seem to just hire whoever is available and thus tilean Dogs don't seem to be more popular with tilean employers. Oh, also Mercenaries from all over the world move there for the numerous employment opportunities.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,390Registered Users
    @LennoxPoodle
    Marienburg has absolutely nothing to do with Southern Realms or DoW.
    It was part of the empire and still uses the same military like the empire.

    Lorewise it is inspired by trade cities like Amsterdam or Hamburg.

    Southern Realms are a fantasy version of Renaissance Italy and Spain.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,122Registered Users, Moderators
    I'd have expected more Myrmidian stuff, myself, but this is pretty good. Though Lucrezia should be a Legendary Lord.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -The "Spam" flag is not a "disagree" flag. Have a care.
    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior Member Posts: 398Registered Users

    But there isn't a tilean army. The city states seem to entirely rely on mercs, in an adaptation of renaissance Italy. They also seem to just hire whoever is available and thus tilean Dogs don't seem to be more popular with tilean employers. Oh, also Mercenaries from all over the world move there for the numerous employment opportunities.

    I see what you're saying but the Dogs of War is not the Tilean army either, in the sense that it only fights for Tilean masters. As I understand it, the Dogs of war is as much a Tilean army as it is the army of Marienburg, Cathay or whoever hires them. That's why I would like to see both Dogs of War and Tilea as playable factions with their own army.

    TIlea could have their own indigenous Tilean units and then a mercenary mechanic in which they can hire from a pool of non-indigenous units.
  • DerPhonixDerPhonix Senior Member Posts: 398Registered Users
    Canuovea said:

    I'd have expected more Myrmidian stuff, myself, but this is pretty good. Though Lucrezia should be a Legendary Lord.

    I contemplated adding Myrmidian based units but seeing that it is more or less the state religion of Estalia, I optet not to. Morr seems to be the most dominant religion in Tilea as far as I could see.
  • AurawallAurawall Posts: 24Registered Users
    A cool roster. A bit thin on high tier elites but cool.

    Although I don't really see Tilea as officially playable. I see the Dogs of War mercenaries as horde armies being the ones with Legendary Lords. Tilea would just use a DoW roster/buildings and be a settlement faction.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Posts: 402Registered Users
    Aurawall said:

    A cool roster. A bit thin on high tier elites but cool.

    Although I don't really see Tilea as officially playable. I see the Dogs of War mercenaries as horde armies being the ones with Legendary Lords. Tilea would just use a DoW roster/buildings and be a settlement faction.

    Regarding that point, I'm actually on board with the others here. The factions should be southern realms with their army being the dogs of war.
    The lack of elites doesn't seem to be much of a problem btw. If I look at them, I see a lot of lower and generics (let's say based on the WD supplent, the Amazons and maybe a few things mentioned inonstrous Arcanum and other lore sources, fulfilling almost every role) making up the lower tier - so to speak - whilst all the higher end stuff is almost exclusively made up from RoR's. These are much more numerous than for any other factions and thus likely up to the task, especially if the gameplay is more about raising and disbanding armies based on need. Even better, only being capable of fielding anything high tier once would give them a very unique feel.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 2,819Registered Users
    I'm a little underwhelmed, but am pleased to learn ornithopters are a thing in the lore, that's interesting. There's potential in the Galloper Guns (or baliistae equivalent), Birdmen of Catrazzo, and ornithopters, to give Tilea (or the DoW, however you want to go about it) some unique flavor and mechanics.

    Hopefully, should CA ever decided to tackle the Southern Realms seriously, they'll play up that aspect.
  • AurawallAurawall Posts: 24Registered Users

    Aurawall said:

    A cool roster. A bit thin on high tier elites but cool.

    Although I don't really see Tilea as officially playable. I see the Dogs of War mercenaries as horde armies being the ones with Legendary Lords. Tilea would just use a DoW roster/buildings and be a settlement faction.

    Regarding that point, I'm actually on board with the others here. The factions should be southern realms with their army being the dogs of war.
    The lack of elites doesn't seem to be much of a problem btw. If I look at them, I see a lot of lower and generics (let's say based on the WD supplent, the Amazons and maybe a few things mentioned inonstrous Arcanum and other lore sources, fulfilling almost every role) making up the lower tier - so to speak - whilst all the higher end stuff is almost exclusively made up from RoR's. These are much more numerous than for any other factions and thus likely up to the task, especially if the gameplay is more about raising and disbanding armies based on need. Even better, only being capable of fielding anything high tier once would give them a very unique feel.
    I do put some worry into it. Warhammer is a setting of excess in strength and weakness. All three settings...both settings. All factions need an overwhelming strength of some kind to be lore believable.

    All the factions need either some sort of high tier unit or units that holds them together or a core system the whole faction revolves around. This is especially true for human faction who have no "inherent racial bonuses". Empire, Warriors of Chaos, and Bretonnia have their strengths written out. The other humans save maybe Cathay are undefined how they counter "high end invasions". Dogs of War RoR seem nice and super cool but they don't seem like the type or number enough to halt a chaos invasion or full on waaagh. CA needs to figure that out.
  • LennoxPoodleLennoxPoodle Posts: 402Registered Users
    Aurawall said:

    Aurawall said:

    A cool roster. A bit thin on high tier elites but cool.

    Although I don't really see Tilea as officially playable. I see the Dogs of War mercenaries as horde armies being the ones with Legendary Lords. Tilea would just use a DoW roster/buildings and be a settlement faction.

    Regarding that point, I'm actually on board with the others here. The factions should be southern realms with their army being the dogs of war.
    The lack of elites doesn't seem to be much of a problem btw. If I look at them, I see a lot of lower and generics (let's say based on the WD supplent, the Amazons and maybe a few things mentioned inonstrous Arcanum and other lore sources, fulfilling almost every role) making up the lower tier - so to speak - whilst all the higher end stuff is almost exclusively made up from RoR's. These are much more numerous than for any other factions and thus likely up to the task, especially if the gameplay is more about raising and disbanding armies based on need. Even better, only being capable of fielding anything high tier once would give them a very unique feel.
    I do put some worry into it. Warhammer is a setting of excess in strength and weakness. All three settings...both settings. All factions need an overwhelming strength of some kind to be lore believable.

    All the factions need either some sort of high tier unit or units that holds them together or a core system the whole faction revolves around. This is especially true for human faction who have no "inherent racial bonuses". Empire, Warriors of Chaos, and Bretonnia have their strengths written out. The other humans save maybe Cathay are undefined how they counter "high end invasions". Dogs of War RoR seem nice and super cool but they don't seem like the type or number enough to halt a chaos invasion or full on waaagh. CA needs to figure that out.
    If there aren't enough RoR to fill the elite of your army, than the solution is pretty obvious: Introduce more of them. If CA goes through other sources such as the lore, FW (Guard of Manaan for example) or things like shadow of the horned rat they could could come up with a basis for as much regiments as possible. Heck, for the campaign they could build a RoR generator which tweaks existing units (possibly not only DoW ones).
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 2,819Registered Users
    edited November 11
    I'm personally very skeptical that RoR, no matter how many, can really substitute for high tier and show piece units. Those sorts of units are often a major selling point for a race. Go back and look at the various race trailers in both WH2 and WH1 and notice how prominently those sorts of units feature.

    I am not convinced that a bunch of RoR, who mostly are just conventional infantry/cavalry/monsters from existing races with a new paint job, are going to have a very broad appeal. Certainly if that's the way a DoW army turns out in TW I won't be buying them. Maybe some people think Albion Giants are somehow cooler than regular giants, but I am not among them and I suspect I'm not alone.
  • ArneSoArneSo Posts: 1,390Registered Users
    I mean just because we don’t know about super elite units for DoW right now doesn’t mean there are none.
    Just look back at the Vampire coast. Everyone just expected a few zombies with ruffles and that’s it. Now look at the masterpiece CA created with using several sources and digging deep in the lore.
    They could do the same for DoW without stretching the lore.

    Just remember how op pike units in Rome 2 were. DoW will be the only race in the game using pikes. If pikes work similar like back in Rome 2, they will be super powerful against everything that Fights in melee. So even tier2 pike units would win against tier4 monsters.

    That will also be the major focus of the DoW and southern realms forces. A core of heavy armoured pikemen, supported by crossbows and arty. Then use some basic cav and magic, supported by amazons flankers and hart hitting Ogres and you have a unique and super powerful army.

  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Posts: 2,819Registered Users
    ArneSo said:

    That will also be the major focus of the DoW and southern realms forces. A core of heavy armoured pikemen, supported by crossbows and arty. Then use some basic cav and magic, supported by amazons flankers and hart hitting Ogres and you have a unique and super powerful army.

    The only parts of your description that sound unique are pikes and amazons. You even describe a chunk of their army as "basic." Ogres are not much of a selling point when they will have their own entire roster. Artillery and crossbows are nothing to write home about.

    I'm not sure that "hey, you get to have access to this mechanic from older TW games we didn't implement until now" and "scantily clad ladies" are gonna sell copies.
Sign In or Register to comment.