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Unit Caps... A step in the right direction but...

OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,253
I think the Unit Caps where a step in the right direction but with certain factions like the Vampire Counts and the Lizardmen the Rare Single Entity restriction seems a bit much...

For Vampire Counts they really don't have to many ways of building their roster.... Partially because they continue to have several units on their roster that are Under Powered or Niche and partially because of their Army Design by Games Workshop. Flyers are also super limited when you consider bats are super cheap.

Lizardmen on the other hand should be able to take advantage of their Feral Bastiladon and other low cost Singe Entity monsters.... While there was never a competitive build that spammed Skinks and Monsters it should be something the Lizardmen are capable of.

Perhaps if instead of a Hard # of units cap on the various categories it was instead a $ Gold limit.

I guess the crux of my thoughts.... are that RSE & Flying slots are in part extra limited because in most factions RSE & Flying are rather "Elite" units.... but not every faction's units are and these restrictions are limiting for them.
Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.


  • WitchbladeWitchblade Registered Users Posts: 577
    I agree a Slann should not count towards the Lizardmen monster limit, just like it doesn't in tournament, and feral bastiladons should only count as 0.5 points towards the monster limit for Lizardmen. They're rarely used as is. Giving up a better monster slot to take a bastiladon makes them even less interesting to take.

    Similarly, I'd count fell bats as 0.5 of a flier slot for VC. Without ranged weapons, VC relies on its bats to shut down archers and VC should be able to mount a strong airforce, as they cannot support their aerial units with ranged firepower like other factions can.
  • DeludeDelude Registered Users Posts: 310
    The flyer problem is easily fixed, make separate limits for infantry size (harpies, bats) and large size (pegs-dragons).

  • OrkLadsOrkLads Registered Users Posts: 1,857
    Don't think gold limits are a good idea as gold is already a limiting factor in this game due to only having 12400 funds.

    The changes should just be faction specific based on need. Trying to create more specific catch-all rules that are consistent across factions will just lead to more problems than it solves due to faction diversity.

    Caps should be changed based on proven needs from the ground up, not theorising from the top-down.

    For Lizardmen, Slann shouldn't count towards the monster cap as a start and then see how it plays out from there. Feral Bastilidons are still a 140 armour monster and bring able to take 6 of them could cause lots of problems for lots of faction.

    For Vampire Counts (NOT COAST), bats should only count for 0.5 of a flyer. They are a faction without any ranged units and so are incapable of contesting the air except with dedicated flying units. Every other faction in the game can pressure and contest the air from the ground with their range which puts VC at a big disadvantage.
  • rymeintrinsecarymeintrinseca Registered Users Posts: 852
    I generally like the caps but it's silly that there are still hidden ones (e.g. build an army with a lot of missile infantry of different types and it satisfies all the advertised caps, but can't be loaded in QB).
  • AerocrasticAerocrastic Registered Users Posts: 463
    Personally I find the caps right now great overall and a good step in the right direction. Although Slann don't count as RSE/SEM in Euro-American tournaments, this is not necessarily true in other regions, and it has also been a topic of debate for some time.

    Vampire Counts having a wealth of weak units and requiring compensation for this is also very much not true when you look at all of their monsters, knights, and infantry being either best in class or just generally very strong. Large rosters having niche units is nothing unusual and nothing bad either. Units that are good in every scenario are rarely actually well balanced. Fell bats are multipurpose but they are like a flying unit of zombies and very powerful in the context of extending the value of your monsters in Air v Air battles. Only High Elves can fight them head on without kiting the air and there are still plenty of ways VC can respond to kite. It's not as if Nehek was actually gutted [Earth Blood, 6(11) WoM 300(600) heal vs Nehek 6(11) WoM 1000(1000) heal]

    Not spamming bats is just something that people will have to get accustomed to by using other units like Vargheists which actually kill things or investing in faster ground units. I for one am pleased to see Hawk Rider/Deck Dropper all air type builds get reigned in because those were toxic as ****, and with regards to Vampire Counts, just learn to play with more patience I guess?

    Less Heavily Armored and Healing Monster Spam
    Less Flier Spam

    Overall a good direction for less toxic play, and note that CA is not trying to make people play tournaments in quick battles, learning tournament rulesets are their own thing and I doubt people want a peak competitive experience (however we define that) in every single battle.
    Imagine for a second that you're a newish-medium experience player and get blasted by 3 healing dinosaurs that you just can't kill for the life of you, or run into a wealth of builds with like 10 fliers as you helplessly get picked apart. People already complain to **** about getting kited on the ground by units that they "can't catch because they're too fast", well how about being kited by an army that's in another freaking plane of existence? As if the skill requirements, game knowledge, and micro weren't already enough of a gate to entry, this further ostracizes the new-medium level players from those performing at the top and while I believe the game should be balanced in the interest of top level play, I do not think the organization of it should be the same as top level play. For a game trying to expand its multiplayer, this is a great, and very healthy step for the game. There is also still the option of playing in multiplayer lobbies with these unit limits all off and setting your own house rules. Nobody is forcing people to play quick battles, and for me, I played close to 100% multiplayer lobby games before my entry into tournaments and had very little issue making the transition which is why I even suggest this in the first place.
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