Categories
- 166.2K All Categories
- 769 Official Updates
- 68 News and Announcements
- 10.6K Total War: Three Kingdoms
- 7.9K General Discussion
- 112 Community Content
- 199 Community Mods
- 59 Multiplayer
- 2.3K Three Kingdoms Support Forum
- 317 Total War Saga
- 238 A Total War Saga: TROY
- 834 A Total War Saga: Fall of the Samurai
- 1.9K A Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia
- 68.4K Total War: WARHAMMER
- 43K General Discussion
- 557 Community Content
- 1.5K Community Mods
- 2.2K Multiplayer
- 5.5K Balancing
- 5.5K Balancing Discussions
- 12 Balancing Results (Moderated)
- 4K Feedback & Suggestions
- 207 PTE Beta Feedback
- 11.7K Total War: WARHAMMER Support
- 384 WARHAMMER Support Forum
- 6.8K WARHAMMER II Support Forum
- 2.6K Total War: ROME II
- 37.8K General Discussion
- 50 Community Content
- 64 Multiplayer
- 883 Rome II Support
- 180 Rise of the Republic Support
- 292 Beta Feedback
- 269 Ancestral Update Support
- 162 Power and Politics Support
- 11.1K Total War: ATTILA
- 6.6K General Discussion
- 674 Community Mods
- 170 Assembly Kit
- 278 Multiplayer
- 3.5K Total War: ATTILA Support
- 2K Gameplay Issues
- 1.2K Crashes & Performance
- 105 Multiplayer
- 180 Mac & Linux Support
- 1.5K Total War Community Content
- 1.3K Community Content
- 200 TEd Tips and Tutorials
- 87.6K Total War Eras
- 81 SHOGUN: Total War
- 8.6K Total War: SHOGUN 2
- 264 MEDIEVAL: Total War
- 1.5K Medieval II: Total War
- 1.5K Empire: Total War
- 1.6K Napoleon: Total War
- 1.4K Rome: Total War
- 7K Total War Eras Multiplayer
- 748 Total War Eras Community Mods
- 27.6K Total War Eras Support
- 11.8K Off Topic
- 2.4K Total War General Chat
- 3.3K Off Topic General
- 179 New Players
- 1.6K Rants and Raves
- 2.2K Technology
- 615 The Graveyard
Missing units and other possible stuff
Red_Dox
Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 3,348
WARNING: EXTREMELY PICTURE HEAVY TOPIC!
So might take some time, until stuff is fired up depending on your own internet connection.
FYI: I only really consider 4th edition and later stuff. The 3rd edition and earlier *can* deliver some stuff for CA to add, but it basically was another world back then. 4th edition rather formed the actual worldmap, got rid of halfelves or halforcs and other stuff, refined the lore and pushed the first real armybooks. So don't even get started with "but my precious 3rd edition army entry is not covered" posts
Everything that probably was worth saving from 3rd, had probably already transfered into 4th+.
If you see for already listed races units from the old GW HP or other articles which might not be considered but should be worth a mentioning, do mention them. And if possible use a source so I can look it over myself. And yes, I know that thanks to GWs homepage purge back in the days, it really is troublesome in some cases
Also noteworthy that while we already had some "unit champions/stuff" becoming own units (like Nastyskulkers or Ancient Kroxigors), I will probably not list everything that exists in that form. Partly since I probably not see them really as important possible new units, partly while I actually might just gloss over them and not recognize "own unit" potential. I have some expertise in some races, mainly of course what I played myself in TT so it might be understandable that if for example I don't like elves in general, I don't see any nuance with them and my expertise there is limited. If you see some potential stuff and can explain why it would be good for the TWW roster addition do point me in the right direction and I might list it. A example that peeked my eye during Dark Elves digging were "Bloodshade Champion" for Shades. But we have Shades, so I actually dismiss them for now and don't see a special "Bloodshade" unit. If you know better, please do elaborate.
And no, I will not list special characters here since this is specific for units. If you want possible LLs then good news, I had done that part over the years already.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/187169/possible-future-ll-speculation-list/p1
Beasts of Chaos [Beastmen]
Armybook (7th)
Forgeworld
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
Bretonnia
Chaos Dwarfs [game#3]
for those interested in what to expect, 2ndmap has done a good visualization.
Daemons of Chaos [game#3]
for those interested in what to expect, 2ndmap has done a good visualization.
As a sidenote he has also done
Kislev: https://i.imgur.com/IJngOZb.jpg [kinda miss here some warmachines from first glance]
Dogs Of War: https://i.imgur.com/1NQKGPx.jpg
So might take some time, until stuff is fired up depending on your own internet connection.
FYI: I only really consider 4th edition and later stuff. The 3rd edition and earlier *can* deliver some stuff for CA to add, but it basically was another world back then. 4th edition rather formed the actual worldmap, got rid of halfelves or halforcs and other stuff, refined the lore and pushed the first real armybooks. So don't even get started with "but my precious 3rd edition army entry is not covered" posts
Everything that probably was worth saving from 3rd, had probably already transfered into 4th+.If you see for already listed races units from the old GW HP or other articles which might not be considered but should be worth a mentioning, do mention them. And if possible use a source so I can look it over myself. And yes, I know that thanks to GWs homepage purge back in the days, it really is troublesome in some cases
Also noteworthy that while we already had some "unit champions/stuff" becoming own units (like Nastyskulkers or Ancient Kroxigors), I will probably not list everything that exists in that form. Partly since I probably not see them really as important possible new units, partly while I actually might just gloss over them and not recognize "own unit" potential. I have some expertise in some races, mainly of course what I played myself in TT so it might be understandable that if for example I don't like elves in general, I don't see any nuance with them and my expertise there is limited. If you see some potential stuff and can explain why it would be good for the TWW roster addition do point me in the right direction and I might list it. A example that peeked my eye during Dark Elves digging were "Bloodshade Champion" for Shades. But we have Shades, so I actually dismiss them for now and don't see a special "Bloodshade" unit. If you know better, please do elaborate.
And no, I will not list special characters here since this is specific for units. If you want possible LLs then good news, I had done that part over the years already.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/187169/possible-future-ll-speculation-list/p1
Beasts of Chaos [Beastmen]
Armybook (7th)
- [Lord]Doombull
- [Lord]Great Bray Shaman
as with other races, since wizard "Lords" are rare in TWW and there is no wizard level diversity, not that big of a deal. - [Hero]Wargor
- [Core]Tuskgor chariot
- [Rare]Ghorgon
- [Rare]Jabberslythe
Forgeworld
- Preyton
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/preyton.pdf
Even if not a real Beastmen unit, they still fit good to the chaos beasts hiding in the woods - Giant Chaos Spawn
Forgeworld:http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/warhammerchaospawn.pdf
Storm of Magic: https://i.imgur.com/9wMI0BP.png - Giant Spined Chaos Beast
Forgeworld: http://kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/warhammerchaosbeast.pdf
Storm of Magic: https://i.imgur.com/VkqPxsG.png - Bonegrinder Giant
As a Giant using race, the bigger Bonegrinder would be an idea. - Incarnate Elemental of Beasts
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/beast-elemental.pdf
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
- Marked Beastmen [armybook 6th]
In 6th edition armybook, some Beastmen could get marks of the four gods and Bestigors would then split into Khorngors, Pestigors, Tzaangors and Slaangors. In the 7th edition armybook there were no marks at all. In 8th edition "The (horrible) Endtimes", GW brought marks for Beastmen back for following units
-Beastlord
-Doombull
-Great bray-Shaman
-Wargor
-Gorebull
-Gor herd
-Ungor herd
-Ungor Raiders
-Tuskgor Chariots
-Minotaurs
-Centigors
-Bestigor herd
-Razorgor chariot
So it would not be unreasonable for CA to add marked Beastmen (like the special Bestigors) if they may have a harder focus on the four chaos gods in game#3. - Chaos Trolls [armybook 6th]
- Chaos Ogres [armybook 6th]
Trolls & Ogres were included in the 6th edition armybook, but then written out by the 7th, since they pushed plastic Minotaurs then. - Dragon Ogres & Shaggoth [armybook 6th]
Also written out with 7th, and rather used for WoC then. - Banebeast
Prior to the 6th armybook, there was a early armylist for test purposes in WD. The Warlord was called Banebeast back then (and the Shaggoth a Dragon Ogre Drake). Sometimes people stumble upon the name and expect something different, but this is really not something missing
Bretonnia
Chaos Dwarfs [game#3]
for those interested in what to expect, 2ndmap has done a good visualization.
Daemons of Chaos [game#3]
for those interested in what to expect, 2ndmap has done a good visualization.
As a sidenote he has also done
Kislev: https://i.imgur.com/IJngOZb.jpg [kinda miss here some warmachines from first glance]
Dogs Of War: https://i.imgur.com/1NQKGPx.jpg
Speculative future LL compilation (work in Progress)
Missing units and other possible stuff (work in Progress)
Missing units and other possible stuff (work in Progress)
Post edited by Red_Dox on
Comments
Armybook (8th)
is in the game but they were able to use all 8 lores of magic + Dark Magic. So currently missing would be a variant for: Lore of Light, Metal, Life and Heavens.
[Lord]High Beastmaster[Hero]Masteringame but missing the same magic lore options as the Lord variant.
[Special]Scourgerunner Chariot[Rare]Bloodwreck Medusa[Rare]Bloodwreck ShrineForgeworld
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/magma-dragon.pdf
would be the only thing coming to mind. And since D-Elves have a feral black Dragon, not really much sense to use another dragon imo.
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
http://rosters.mysteria.cz/ostatni/download/SoC - Cult of Slaanesh.pdf
So while it is unlikely to use Daemons or Chaos Warriors for D-Elves in general, Morathis faction name and her chaos spreading are pointing already in that direction. I would assume when game#3 arrives, with DoC and Chaos rework, Morathi could get an rework herself and maybe go Cult of Slaanesh or use at least some Daemon/Warrior troops similar to Arkhan & Alarielle with their limited access to other races troops.
Since they have already Feral Manticores and Black Dragons, not much sense to also add Chimeras imo.
Dwarfs
Armybook (8th)
[Other stuff]
I usually would not consider that, since it is rather an upgrade item for Miners but since the similar Skaven Warp-Grinder made it into a own unit...
Just an upgrade for the champion, but same counted for the Trollhammer torpedo. But I actually do not see a real TWW role for them with pistols.
Forgeworld
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Shard_Dragon
I am no fan of dwarfs getting monsters, since it is not their style. But the lore here especially mentions dwarfs binding them with collars so it might be possible to do for CA...
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
Replaced with the Master Engineer in 7th+8th.
Probably redundant since we have already Runelords & Runesmiths.
They worked pretty similar to Nightgoblin Fanatics. I am unsure if CA can implement these as "working" individuals until they get triggered th then swirl around and die/vanish. Same problem that the O&G Mangler Squig basically has.
Could probably work as a warmachine even if not tied to fabled Malakai
As with the two entries above, they were part of the SoC "Slayer Army of Karak Kadrin" list. It would actually be a good idea to make a DLC centered around that and including the missing armybook Slayer chars, but sadly Ungrim Ironfist is already in the game and I don't know if we need now Garagrim or Malakai to step up for this when a Runelord or Master Engineer LL might be more interesting for overall diversity.
Here we have an rare example of a old 3rd edition relic, that gets a homage in a 6th edition WD campaign. Gameplay wise for TWW, we can just look to the Skaven Warpfire Thrower and see how easy it could work. BUT of course the 8th edition Irondrakes kinda already have that role so, probably redundant.
Warhammer Online:Age of Reckoning -> Oathbearers
The (horrible) Endtimes -> Everguard
Both are basically glorified Hammerer Regiments of Renown, which should not become spammable units. But since Hunter & Beast featured Kroxigors with "powerfists", CA could do something similar here if they feel it would be needed.
Back in the old days the Norsca armylist for more "Viking-Norse" included generic Norse Dwarf additions. Since we know that some Norse dwarfholds still exist, like Kraka Drak even implemented in the Old World for TWW, there could be made an efford to make them a bit more unique. The WFRP "Stone and Steel" has some rudimentary lore for them. Or at worst, we could get a special Kraka Drak building allowing a limited ammount of Mammoths for use. Even a single Mammoth RoR unit here, would already be a good nod toward older lore and Norse Dwarfs.
High Elves
Archmage can be lvl 4 wizard, Loremaster is stuck at level 2. Archmage can take various mounts, Loremaster none. So the Loremaster seems rather redundant for TWW purposes and was by CA rightfully pushed down to just be a hero instead of a Lord.
Currently missing six lores: Beast, Metal, Fire, Heaven, Shadows, Death
And yes, I still think that the whole idea of that flying melee chariot is stupid.
Forgeworld
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/merwyrm.pdf
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane_Phoenix
The Monstrous Arcanum came before the latest HE armybook. So when HE got Fire & Frost Phoenixes, there probably is no real need to add another.
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
I would not bet on it, but since we have already so much feral stuff running around...
Lizardmen
Missing units and other possible stuff (work in Progress)
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
5 · 5Likefor those interested in what to expect, 2ndmap has done a good visualization.
Orcs & Goblins
Armybook (8th)
- [Lord] Goblin Warboss
- [Lord]Savage Orc Warboss
- [Lord]Blackorc Warboss
- [Lord]Orc Great Shaman
- [Lord]Savage Orc Great Shaman
- [Lord]Night Goblin Great Shaman
- [Hero]Night Goblin Big Boss
- [Hero]Orc Big Boss
- [Hero]Savage Orc Big Boss
- [Hero]Black Orc Boss
- [Mount]Goblin Warboss on gigantic Spider
- [Mount] Goblin Great Shaman on Arachnarok with shrine
- [Mount]Wolf chariot
- [Mount]Boar chariot
- [Special]Snotlings
- [Special]Snotling Pump Wagon
- [Special]Goblin Spear Chukka
- [Rare]Mangler Squigs
- [Rare]River Trolls
- [Rare]Stone Trolls
[Other stuff]We desperatly need some Orc Big Boss Heroes...
CA does not do swarms, so not gonna happen.
Due to their very special TT rules (behaving mostly like Fanatics) I doubt they will get considered.
Trolls that are harder to hit in melee and don't care about "water" terrain
Got Magic resistance and armor save.
Due to low strength and the spider better used in melee anyway, a rather useless tabletop option.
It is a upgrade option for a savage orc regiment and more of a gimmick. But since Goblin Nasty Skulkers were a upgrade option for Goblin regiments and were utilized to work as a standalone, I am kinda sure a Wildorc Big Stabba unit who runs arounds to inflict heavy impact dmg on monsters/armoured stuff sounds not that crazy.
In TT, a lord/hero could join another lord/hero and so the 2+ could form a unit of their own. Combined with the gigantic Spider mount, sneaky Goblins could form a monstrous cav unit consisting only of heroes/lords. Which was still affordable, since Goblin chars were kinda cheap. Since 8th edition had pushed monstrous cav units for other armybooks (O&G was the first of the edition so GW was playing it a bit save the first books), the whole idea to make a regular unit out of them is not that far fetched. Would probably have been the next thing in the new edition/armybook if the world would still exist.
There are some other units who are also not included in the current roster with "all" weapon options. I mean I get it, it costs charlemagnes, it would boost the O&G armyroster beyond normal standards and maybe for balance purpose it is not necessary to have everyone with everything. However, for a "themed" army purpose with greenskin diversity it might be nice to have the option to pick what I would like for optical pleasure.
-Goblins with handweapon & shield
-Night Goblins with spears
-Orcs with spears
-Savage Orcs with spears
-Black Orcs with spears/shields&handweapon
because for real, if we have Chaos Warriors and Chosen running wild with every weapon option, surely Black Orcs could also get a bit of love.
You hear sometimes asked about but for those that do not know: it was a unit upgrade that just made your NG unit tougher. So while we have a unit upgrade like Nasty Skulkers become a own thing and Netters were a thing with clubbers in the past, I see no real use for them as a own unit. At all. in these day and age and especially with TWW on my mind.
So while I would be happy that every orcish Lord choice could get a Wyvern mount through skillpoint(s), I rather would not see Feral Wyverns. Greenskins do not dominate the skys and they can't just call Feral Wyvern to their aide, since those things are not as intelligent as Dragons for example.
So if there would be a need to boost "flying" numbers, I would go as far and even allow every orcish hero to gather up a Wyvern mount (which they could not in TT). That would mean with time and effort a greenskin stack could include 2-3 Wyvern Riders who would give the desired flying units. But it is not just a easy late tier recruiting unit, and pure Goblin armies do not even get a chance in the first place. As it should be.
Forgeworld
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/rogue-idol.pdf
The hard armored version of a Giant (without the randomness in TT). Since TWW giant is not a rng unit, the Idol loses a part of its selling point.
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/GRTH.pdf
Not that different from a Giant, but with Troll regeneration.
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/colossal-squig.pdf
Way cheaper then a giant, does not suffer from random attacks, fits real nice into Goblin WAAAGHs and has the certain Goblin unstability with eating also own troops
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/SquigGobba.pdf
A giant squig who rapid spits squigs on the enemy. Short range, like a Empire Hellblaster or dwarf organ gun. Yeah, keep our Spear Chukkas. Give us Squig Gobba warmachines!
As a Giant using race, the bigger Bonegrinder would be an idea.
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
That changed with the 6th armybook, were GW cut them down to Goblins & Nightgoblins [because "duh, we don't sell seperate Forest goblin regiments anymore and do not want to make a new plastic kit since everybody just used Nightgoblins anyway], which sticked until 8th edition. So even if 7th & 8th edition did bring new Forest Goblin miniatures to replace the old (Spider Riders, Arachnarok) they did not revive as "own" subculture, even if you kinda could still build themed armies around that if your were willing. Since the 8th edition still had the options to mount the Goblin Warboss on the gigantic spider or the Goblin Great Shaman on the Arachnarok, we can still argue that they are around. CA could basically just do what GW did not, and give them a proper treatment.
-a own Lord/Hero lineup. Which could be arranged around a themed DLC with a own LL.
-adding the already mentioned monstrous beast Spider cav as new unit.
-adding regular Forest Goblin regiment options, maybe with poison attack due to their spider symbiosis and/or
some special rules for dealing with forests (like Woodelves). Since it is their natural habitat.
-utilizing the mentioned missing Arachnarok Web-Flinger as own warmachine with whatever rules?
Got written out in 6th edition and were not really missed.
are a thing of the past. Like the already mentioned Clubbers&Netters. Since 6th edition we have squig herds instead of several Squighunter teams. And in TWW we do not even have the Nightgoblins with prodders, clubbers and whatever to chase the Squigs in the right direction. So I see no use for them, at all.
We also know of two more goblin related species, namely Hobgoblins (Chaos Dwarfs) and Gnoblars (Ogre Kingdoms). Both are more distant cousins and do not have any relevance for true Orcs&Goblin armies. The treacherous Hobgoblins are also to be killed on sight if you feel in the right mood. Noteworthy: Hobgoblins ≠ Gnoblars.
For "Storm of Magic", GW rolled up rules for "greater Cave Squigs" (like Gobbla) to be a own herd due to monster binding scrolls (so everyone could use them and buy miniatures). The main disgust for many people was even stronger squigs cheaper on the table without herders or their rampage explosion rules. Since TWW squigherds also have no herders to begin with, at least that would not be a problem and we could "go bigger" and deadlier with a Greater Cave Squig Herd.
similar to above Squigherd, the "Storm of Magic" also allowed everyone to pay the price to use magical bound feral spiders. While for greenskins rather useless in case of regular ones or Arachnaroks, which we could better use in their ridden variants, the Gigantic Spiders however as feral Monstrous Beast unit could work (even if I would also rather see a ridden cavalry version here). Still something that would work well in a Forest Goblin themed army.
For TWW probably not the best choice but the idea of it might get maybe incorporated with Forgeworlds Rogue Idol?
http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1440/01/1440018146742.pdf
Known better from 40k
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/Ork-Squiggoth
which also has a bigger version
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-CA/Ork-Gargantuan-Squiggoth
But some things explain themselves with other stuff. Giant Trolls -> River Hag. Effigies of the gods -> Rogue Idol, etc. and we have already so much possible stuff that we do not need to hunt down various lore references to find something to add, like with other races
Skaven
Armybook (7th)
- [Lord]Verminlord
- [Hero]Chieftain
- [Mount]War Litter
- [Mount]Giant Pox Rat
- [Core]Giant Rats
- [Core]Rat Swarms
[Other stuff]Since they are greater Daemons of the Horned Rat (which basically is a lesser Chaos god), my guesswork would be that they might be implemented once Daemons of Chaos are in the game (and CA had decided how to deal with greater Daemons Lord or Rare-choice wise).
Since CA does not do swarms, never gonna happen.
Poisonwind MortarWarp-Grinderare a mount option for Plague Priests or Warlords. They probably could also work as a monstrous cavalry option, since the 8th edition was walking the "mostrous cav" path.
Forgeworld
Like exalted greater Daemons of Chaos, the bigger more imba variant: http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/exalted-Vermin-Lord.pdf
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/brood-horror.pdf
Kinda lack the rules of those things as mounts for mighty Warlords, but as the picture should make it clear, there was a option for that as well as just the monster as standalone
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/wolf-rats.pdf
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
[Lord]Clan Eshin Sorceror; [Lord]Master Assassin; [Rare]Triad [Storm of Chaos 6th]Let's be honest here, Rat Ogres are there so Trolls are just not really something Skaven would need. So for TWW highly unlikely.
We saw them also during "Storm of Chaos" as part of the WoC.
Probably obsolete since 7th edition brought the Abomination and we have the A-Bomb in TWW
Special siege weapon from the "Blood in the Badlands" campaign book.
Kinda obsolete since Skaven got the Plagueclaw Catapult in 7th edition.
Three (3) Ratling guns on a single R-Ogre, and now try to imagine a "regular sized" monstrous infantry unit with that kind of firepower while still maintaining the monstrous infantry melee capabilities for TWW. Insanity. Even if CA would do what GW never did and nerfed them a lot, the balancing would still be a mess. Better not to walk that path at all. And since TWW is not THE Endtimes, but a CA created Endtimes, hopefully they will be left out. Like most other Endtimes stuff.
which might be a bit unlikely as active warmachines.
The Empire
Missing units and other possible stuff (work in Progress)
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
5 · 5LikeArmybook (8th)
Lore of Nehekhara, Light, Death
Since CA does not really do banners and his army role without that is kinda a Tomb Prince, nothing to miss here.
CA does not do swarms, so not gonna happen.
Forgeworld
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Khemric_Titan
Sadly no official miniature.
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
Before the Undead split and the way more refined Tomb Kings lore Mummy units were a thing. While today we rather have the Tomb Kings/Princes and Tomb Guard instead.
I don't know an artwork, and there never was an actual miniature, but since 40k vamped its Necrons around that time into Space Khemri and they had those...
As with all Endtimes units, better keep them out of TWW.
Artwork from Warhammer Online. Not sure if a Necroserpent variant or rather some new construct.
Vampire Counts
Armybook (8th)
Both Bat Swarms and Spirit Hosts are swarms. CA so far does not do swarm units.
Forgeworld
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/mourngul.pdf
Both of those choices were put into the Vampire Coast roster. That makes it unlikely for them being future Count DLC items, but FLC crossover is not out of the window (even if now unlikely).
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
As we see, the armybook list rather field some mortal troops to support their counts, while the SoC list rather has similar troops but undead. In theory we could use the armybook list for Vlad/Isabella, which were the more generous rulers and the SoC list for Mannfred for whom it was intended. We could argue that allowed crossbows/archers would be a wildcard, but we could borrow a page from the Tomb Kings here and rather limit the use of those troops by limitation chained to bsupporting buildings.
Feral Undead Dragons specificly for them, sounds reasonable. The Bloodline itself can focus on better magical support or even more powerful spells then generic vampires.
The idea of mortal heroes (probably mostly humans) for them sounds neat. Their shadow dealings in espionage could also be represented similar to Clan Eshins newest gameplay mechanic. Probably a bit less assassination & sabotage but to some degrees both are not that different. If we argue that a Lahmian Bloodline build would only come through Neferata herself some future day, then for Neferata there is also the "crossover" use of some Tomb King troops possible (similar to Arkhan).
There can probably be done more here, since newer editions have for example add the Blood Knights as cav. We could argue for Blood Knights as a foot unit, which probably could work but might need also some limitations so you don't drown the battlefield in vampires instead of resurrected dead. The Graveguard being able to get bows would certainly also give them a unique unit.
The Charnel Guard with slightly better Ghouls is fine. The Crypt Horrors from later editions, could get a similar tweak to have a slightly better unit here. The Strigany mortals will not make that much of a difference but fit right in. could maybe exploited into some other weapon categories too, but while it might fit to the Old Strigos Empire tales, it might take away the unique nature of the von Carstein Sylvanian regiments.
Redundant. Replaced in later editions with the Wight King.
Redundant. Just regular Vampires these days.
Carin Wraith Hero still exists in 8th edition. And we can argue that the Hex Wraiths, do the job as cav. So why not a regular "ghost" regiment? I mean, ghost swarms will not happen since swarms. But such a foot-Wraith unit is certainly not impossible, especially since Vampire Coast got Syreens.
The later Undead split, shoved Carrions into the Tomb Kings roster. But, the "ghost Rider" got lost in the process. If for example we brought back the before mentioned Wraiths, we could maybe thinks of some other ghostly flying creature they are attached too. Or some other corpse. Or we let them rest, since Vargheists are a good flying substitute these days.
Were written out since they would now form the Tomb Kings Lords/Heroes. We could argue that some northern human tribes still would have some mummies around who could be ressurected, but I see no essential role for them in a modern VC army.
Redundant these days through Grave Guard.
Probably redundant since we have the Corpse Cart these days.
I actually don't really see them as useful as regular units between Black Knights, Hex Wraiths & Blood Knights. As a RoR unit working similar to Bretonnia Grail Knights/Guardians, I would all be for it.
For the campaign Kemmler got his own magic lore and a own armylist instead of just using the Vampire Counts 6th armybook. I think chances that Kemmler will get a major overhaul for this stuff are pretty small, and most stuff might be redundant for a true VC army but here we go.
As with all Endtimes units, better keep them out of TWW.
Warriors of Chaos
Armybook (8th)
For everyone not knowing already, CA has only put "WoC Undivided" in the current DLC. Pretty much everything related to the four gods, is currently missing. As we all assume for the simple reason to come later. Probably in game#3, with a overhaul to the WoC in general (or possible DLC for DLC?). If you do know nothing about the four major dark gods
What most Chaos Lords want to achieve: Daemonhood and immortality. Since the mortal Chaoswarriors are better lead by mortals, it is imho OK that he is missing. Especially since LLs basically are the playable Overlords and a DP would probably only bow for Archaon and not the rest. Also, the WoC DP was massivly overpowered in 8th edition TT (sadly way better then the Daemon DP counterpart who had less equipment and less special rules). Gamebreaking bad! So it might be a good thing that he is not included. Especially since he will be a better "generic" Lord choice for the Daemons of Chaos race, who also might come in game#3.
Of course these three would all come with their own magic lore specified to their god. Probably when the same Magic lores arrive with the DoC in game#3.
Really old miniatures, and since Trolls are the better Monstrous Infantry, probably obsolete. However Forgeworld had a newer limited miniature once.
Came with 8th edition to the armybook, most likeley as a "we have not sold enough during Storm of Magic" approach. For Total War Warhammer probably obsolete, since the feral Manticore fulfills the role.
[Other stuff]
How CA will implement god allegiance, we have to wait and see. The Norsca DLC with shrines could have been a prototype for that. In the end, we have to wait and see if marked troops rather will be new units to be added or if the current roster can get "upgraded" for various gods. That would probably also decide if the troops rather get different looks based on their gods (various helmets, shields, weapons)
or rather a different paintscheme at best
Forgeworld
The mammoth is now rather in Norscas armyroster and probably it is better that way. The WoC could utilize other monsters if they need something hulky, while Norsca is kinda depended on the mammoth.
Forgeworld:http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/warhammerchaospawn.pdf
Storm of Magic: https://i.imgur.com/9wMI0BP.png
Forgeworld: http://kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/warhammerchaosbeast.pdf
Storm of Magic: https://i.imgur.com/VkqPxsG.png
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/toad-dragon.pdf
Useable as feral monster or mount?
If they exist Nurgle marked, there probably could also exist the otehr three variants.
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/ettin.pdf
Doubtful, since we have already Giants.
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/siege-giant.pdf
As a Giant using race, the bigger Bonegrinder would be an idea.
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/bile-trolls.pdf
Nurgle Trolls. Would not be a stretch to assume there might then also be other "god marked" Troll variants. Even if I can not even imagine how a Slaanesh Troll might look or what he does in combat...
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/dreadmaw.pdf
It is a special character for AoS, that rides on a Khorne Dragon. But the idea of god-marked Dragons is something which never was touched in WHFB afaik (except Galrauch who is a Tzeentch follower). So it might be a possibility, even if we have the generic dragons.
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
As a special siege unit worth an idea but I think the concept of them could also work for a regular unit flaying around the battlefield if needed more troops for the roster.
new ogre-sized Nurgle warriors (but did not count as monstrous infantry) to go along with special char Gutrot Spume. As with basically all Endtimes stuff, it might be better to leave them out...
and they ride on the Nurgle drones. Daemons of Chaos will get their drones, since they existed already then in WHFB. But they did not yet transfer over to the WoC then. Since the WoC armybook already covers mortal troops on demonic mounts as units and for characters, the drones would be just the next step in the evolution of the next armybook/update. Except that the world was destroyed with "The (horrible) Endtimes". I actually would like to see the drones in the WoC roster as mounts. I doubt you have to be a Blightking/Blightlord to ride them, normal warriors should be able to do the trick (like with Juggernauts).
Same as with Blightkings, those two were boosted to Ogre size and stats (but did still not count as monstrous infantry) to do more melee dmg then regular Khorne Warriors. But without actual being MI, they got majorly screwd by 8th edition rules. Which of course GW did not care for, since that was their "final sale" before AoS and it was all about money anyway. As with other Endtimes stuff, we could live without them. Which might actually also be a better choice since Slaanesh & Tzeentch have no counterparts (also not in AoS afaik). So better no one gets those troops instead of just half the gods.
The Lord might rather be replaced through later editions Shaggoth.
If there would be an actual need for a even bigger Dragon.
Wood Elves
Armybook (8th)
Already ingame but missing the magical lores of Fire, Metal, Heaven, Light, and Death
Forgeworld
http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/beast-elemental.pdf
White Dwarf/Citadel Journal/others
Since Fimirs were pushed into Norsca, I see nothing wrong with shipping Zoats towards the tree hippies.
Kinda replaced through the Shadowdancer, but if CA wants to go for a Wardancer hero without being a wiizard, this can come up.
The CJ had also some other stuff, but some is just weird and some is outdated, so I see only those two as actual options
Missing units and other possible stuff (work in Progress)
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
3 · 3Like"I shivered at the sight of her - her beauty far beyond that of mortal man. But her soul glowed with an inner darkness that chilled my very core."
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
2 · 2Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · LikePersonally, I don't like the use of the word 'missing', as that implies it's by error rather than design, whereas an awful lot of those things mentioned have been purposely left out or perhaps updated. I see TWW as a kind of '9th edition', so even 8th edition TT units should be able to be cut (especially some of the weaker ones in lore terms) and replaced without huge outcry, especially for units barely used in TT circles.
Hopefully (entirely my opinion) this means no lion chariot or the flying bolt thrower thing for HE and these can be swapped out for improved and more thematic units, but IMO CA shouldn't be 100% restricted by GW's past mistakes when it's a good opportunity to fix them.
For example, IMO the minotaur general (Doombull) for Beastmen makes little sense for me; the upgraded Gorebull is the damage dealer its role was intended to be.
Anyway, good list and for sure people can choose their favourites and hope for them - but don't think CA is doing any disservice by omitting the odd unit or character.
For example, to me, HE would hugely benefit from lord-level mages, which were a TT staple and fit their theme perfectly. At the moment, they are arguably weaker than the likes of DE and Empire when it comes to powerful generic caster generals, which really doesn't fit. But others may disagree with that and see it as an improvement. So let's hear it, civilly.
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
2 · 2LikeThey are a valid Skaven unit choice and they should be included.
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
3 · 3LikeOr would adding anything to Vampire Coast be too disgusting to you guys?
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · LikeI'd suggest that the Incarnate Elemental of Beasts from the Monstrous Arcanum bests fits the Beastmen
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · LikeIt’s not a shame. When we’re picking single lines out of army books and white dwarf supplements from decades ago to compile a list, I see that as a testament to TWW, not a negative.
Red Dox has pulled together a great list of potential units, but we shouldn’t expect them all or consider them ‘missing’ IMO.
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · LikeI don't think everything in Monstrous Arcanum needs to be shoehorned into a race - we should really only be adding something if there is a strong connection to that race. For instance, Perytons are not just listed as having Kinship with Beastmen, but their fluff also suggests that perytons were ultimately created by Beastmen shamans corrupting Great Stags. Conversely, Wyverns are also listed as having "Kinship" with Beastmen, but with all their fluff pointing towards the greenskin relationship, I wouldn't pack wyverns into Beastmen, even if there are probably times in Warhammer's history where it's happened.
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · LikeIn general towards the question if something is really "missing" or not, that is imo not that difficult. For example the whole god specific stuff form WoC is indeed missing. It is clear that stuff will come later, around game#3 with DoC impacting the game and that leaving everything out to just have WoC Undivided for game#1 since a lot of people bitched about no playable Chaos at all was a distinctive choice. Still, despite a logical explaination why, it is not there. If I steal 5 bucks out of your pocket they will be missing also, no matter if you think you lost them or someone would have stolen them or actually know Who and Why it got stolen
Topic Vampire Coast and "missing" stuff, that actually will be a tricky collection since CA already made a whole lot up compared to the meager armylist. I probably will prefer first dealing with the actual 15 armybook races + Chaos Dwarfs before I would dabble with Norsca & Zombie Pirates. Top of my mind there is esepcially for the pirates also not that much stuff. Ghost Sea Giant does not even ring a bell. Was that some obscure lore reference?
I would assume they miss more then just the Skycutter but I have not even started on them or other races, so for now there is just nothing to see there. Some day in the future, if I not get hit by a bus after winning the lottery, hopefully every race should be covered as best as I see fit. Kinda had that rather planned in for Woodelves, but could probably also work for BoC. Might add in the next round I fiddle there.
------Red Dox
Missing units and other possible stuff (work in Progress)
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
1 · 1LikeLooking at the Coast's army list the only thing "missing" would be the Syreen hero choice and, arguably, you could say some more versions of Rotting Leviathan.
Norsca didn't even touch the CJ list so suffice to say it isn't really a source to rely on. But Flayerkin and Curd'd Ettin fit.
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · LikeI'd still rather have a Preyton, Jabber, Ghorgon, Marked Chaos Beastmen, and everything from their last armybook more... But I'd take it before the Spinebeast or Giant Chaos Spawn.
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · LikeFimir Meargh - Wizard Lord
Wolf Jarl - Wereskin Lord
Valkyrie - Defensive Hero
Curs'd Ettin
Bearstruck (Berserkers?)
Valkyries
- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like- Spam
- Abuse
- Report
0 · Like