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Nagash army list

RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 907
edited November 2019 in General Discussion
I know theres already alot of undead already, but I don't think the trilogy will be worthwhile without Nagash. He should definitely have his own faction, and although it would be easy to just blend tomb kings and Vampire counts I don't think that'd be enough.

In my opinion it should have its own playstyle and a uniform aesthetic. The look seems relatively clear looking at the Nagash, the dread abyssals and morghasts:










Annoyingly, Games workshop just released the Ossiarch Bonereapers which fit this look perfectly:


although they suffer a bit from the cartoonish proportions of age of sigmar, I think they look great, but as they're age of sigmar they cant be included.

none the less, a similar-looking army, would in my opinion be great for the game, so if CA were given permission and took the time what would a nagash faction include?

In the end times the undead legions army acted as his army, but was a mix of VC and TK:



Legendary Lords:
-Nagash
- Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night
- Vlad von Carstein, Mortarch of Shadow
- Queen Neferata, Mortarch of Blood
- Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament
- Krell, Mortarch of Despair


Lords:
- Tomb King
- Vampire Lord
- Master Necromancer
- Liche High Preist
- Strigoi Ghoul king

Heroes:
- Banshee
- Necromancer
- Vampire
- Wight King
- Liche Preist
- Tomb Pince
- Tomb Herald
- Nercrotect
- Cairn Wriath

Mounts:
- Zombie Dragon
- Skeletal Steed
- Barded Skeletal Steed
- Hellsteed
- Nightmare
- Barded Nightmare
- Corpse Cart
- Abyssal Terror
- Coven Throne
- Skeleton Chariot
- Khemrian Warsphinx

Infantry:
- Skeleton Warriors
- Skeleton Spearmen
- Skeleton Archers
- Zombies
- Grave Guard
- Grave Guard (Great Weapons)
- Crypt Ghouls
- Cairn Wraiths
- Tomb Guard
- Spirit Host


Monsters:
- Vargheists
- Dire Wolves
- Fell Bats
- Varghulf
- Terrorgheist
- Sepulchral Stalkers
- Carrion
- Tomb Scorpion
- Ushabti
- Khemrian Warsphinx
- Morghast Harbingers
- Necrolyth Colossus
- Hierotitan
- Necrosphinx
- Morghast Archai

Cavalry:

- Black Knights
- Skeleton Horsemen
- Skeleton Horse Archers
- Skeleton Chariots
- Hexwraiths
- Necropolis Knights
- Blood Knights

Vehicles:
- Black Coach
- Corpse Cart
- Mortis Engine
- Screaming Skull Catapult
- Casket of Souls


So that's obviously a massive army list, and to me, egyptian themed units with traditional vampiric undead doesn't seem to work as a look. The other point is that if CA just released this army either at the start of game 3 or just as a DLC it would a bit of a middle finger to those who bought game 1 and the tomb kings dlc.

but if you remove the characteristic vampire count and tomb king units that are already in the game this is what you're left with very little, but I think a good middle ground would be some reskins of existing units so they look more similar to nagash and his units, as well as some units mentioned in the lore:


Legendary Lords:
-Nagash
-Arkhan the Black
-Krell
-Van Damneg the Dread King

Lords:
- Liche King (tomb king reskin)
- Disciples of Nagash (master necromancer reskin)

Heroes:
- Wraith-Wizards (Liche priest reskin)
- Wight King
- Cairn Wriath

Mounts:
- Zombie Dragon
- Skeletal Steed
- Barded Skeletal Steed
- Hellsteed
- Nightmare
- Barded Nightmare
- Abyssal Terror
- Skeleton Chariot

Infantry:
- Skeleton Warriors
- Skeleton Spearmen
- Skeleton Archers
- Zombies
- Guards of Nagashizar (tomb guard reskins)
- Cairn Wraiths
- Spirit Host

Monsters:
- Fell Bats
- Morghast Archai
- Morghast Harbingers
- Bone Golems
- Bone Constructs (similar to Ushabti)

Cavalry:
- Black Knights (reskin)
- Skeleton Horsemen
- Skeleton Horse Archers
- Skeleton Chariots
- Hexwraiths

Vehicles:
- Bolt throwers
- Mortis Engine
- Screaming Skull Catapult
- War Altar of Nagash (simialr to casket of souls)

The caters would also get access to the lore of undeath https: //1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_Magic#Lore_of_Undeath:



This a relatively weak army list I know, lacking in something to make it unique, and some key roles in the army, so maybe it could be bolstered by VC and TK units once you defeat the faction leaders if you own the DLC. I.e. you defeat Vlad or Mannfred, you get vampiric units, defeat Settra and you get TK units. Might be a good way of getting the mortarchs too, defeat them and you get them. Another idea is that it focuses much more on raising specific undead, i.e. undead beastmen, dwarfs, orcs etc once you defeat them in battle.

for those interested, I used PaulH's thread for the units from the lore (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?741202-Warhammer-Information-Thread-Index-Updated-18-01-18)

so any ideas on how to implement Nagash properly, game mechanics or things to add to army lists?
Post edited by RichardNRound on

Comments

  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 9,275
    It usually takes me day or two to pre-order. But this I would purchase instantly.

    I can't wait for character unique dread abyssals.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • MrGloverGloverMrGloverGlover Registered Users Posts: 47
    I wouldn't mind a generic undead army, i.e. without a vampire or Egyptian flavour. I think in order to contribute to the differentiation a little, you could take necromancers off VC (Nobody plays them anyway) and use them here, right?

  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 571
    edited November 2019
    Personally to start I think that Neferata would have to be one of the LLs of the Nagash faction because she has her own units that combine tomb kings and vampire counts. That said, I think a Nagash faction should be an elite-focused undead faction.

    On units we would have to go full end times to start:

    Dread abyssals as main mount and main elite monster.
    Morgashs as monstrous infantry.
    Skeletons of Lahmia as '' cheap '' infantry.
    Vampiric infantry as elite infantry.

    These things would be the basis on which to work and I am ignoring the weapons they use and the quality range of the units.

    It could expand more in one or the other aspects but that would be CA's job.

    And obviously the only lore that the faction would have would be the lore of undead.
  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 907
    Another option I didnt mention is to focus on ethereal units, with a range of ghostly infantry to go long with cairn wraiths and hex wraiths, such as spirit hosts and units similar to the night haunt range from age of sigmar, again I know they couldn't use the exact units:









    I would like to see an army of bone white, black armoured units with blue ethereal effects. I think that would be unique and really appealing army:




  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,008
    brago90 said:

    Personally to start I think that Neferata would have to be one of the LLs of the Nagash faction because she has her own units that combine tomb kings and vampire counts. That said, I think a Nagash faction should be an elite-focused undead faction.

    Not to nitpick, but wasn't the only TK unit she had the Lahmian Guard, basically Tomb Guard?
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • YakintonYakinton Registered Users Posts: 343
    That's a pretty good army you put togheter
  • rothamon81rothamon81 AustriaRegistered Users Posts: 141
    I hope they dont make him that tall. That model looks to be bigger than a bone giant.
  • rothamon81rothamon81 AustriaRegistered Users Posts: 141
    Also, I think him dying on the battlefield should have even worse effects on his army than vampires; maybe even on the campaign map too. I'm interested what kind of mechanic they'll implement to balance him/his campaign.
  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 571
    Arsenic said:

    brago90 said:

    Personally to start I think that Neferata would have to be one of the LLs of the Nagash faction because she has her own units that combine tomb kings and vampire counts. That said, I think a Nagash faction should be an elite-focused undead faction.

    Not to nitpick, but wasn't the only TK unit she had the Lahmian Guard, basically Tomb Guard?
    Yep and enough to expand in a whole series of different skeletons to use as basic infantry for the army.
  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 907

    Also, I think him dying on the battlefield should have even worse effects on his army than vampires; maybe even on the campaign map too. I'm interested what kind of mechanic they'll implement to balance him/his campaign.

    I think that the way he is when he's an enemy should be different than when you play as him. 2 good suggestions ive heard are that you shouldn't be able to start your campaign with nagash, but with one of the other lords like Arkhan or Neferrata having to collect items or do quests to summon him. Another idea was that when he is in a region, random armies of undead pop up around the map nearby.

    He should incredibly powerful, but as you say, if he dies in a battle undead should crumble especially quickly
  • LamentationsLamentations Registered Users Posts: 176
    I would really like to hear more about that “Cry” monster you have listed there.
  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 907

    I would really like to hear more about that “Cry” monster you have listed there.

    Didn't delete crypt horrors completely, I've edited it out
  • YitterbumYitterbum Registered Users Posts: 259
    I like the idea of just having the focus of a Nagashi themed army be on skeletons and ethereal units. The only issue that I see is that they will be severely lacking in high-tier units (i.e. large constructs from TK and Vampire units from VC). Maybe a way to make up for this is to remove crumbling from their units and wider variety of summon-able units to represent Nagash's mastery over necromancy.

    Another issue is that almost all of their units are already in the game bar LL's and a handful of units. If a Nagashi race do get added, then it would have to be some form of free content.


    In terms of an army list, this is what I would expect.

    Potential Legendary Lords:
    - Nagash
    - Neferata (Would be better suited in the VC army list in my opinion. Maybe give her a positive standing with Nagash?)
    - Dieter Helsnicht
    - Walach Harkon (Again, another character that would be better suited in the VC army list)
    - The Nameless

    Lords:
    - Liche King (reskin)
    - Liche High Priest (reskin) (Lore of Death, Lore of Shadows, Necromancy)
    - Master Necromancer

    Heroes:
    - Liche Priest (Lore of Death, Lore Shadows, Necromancy)
    - Necromancer
    - Wight King
    - Cairn Wraith

    Potential Mounts:
    - Zombie Dragon
    - Terrorgheist
    - Barded Skeletal Steed
    - Hellsteed
    - Barded Nightmare
    - Skeleton Chariot
    - Corpse Cart

    Infantry:
    - Zombies
    - Spirit Host
    - Skeleton Warriors
    - Skeleton Spearmen
    - Skeleton Archers
    - Nagashizaar Guards (Grave guard reskin)
    - Nagashizzar Guards w/ Great Weapons (Grave guard reskin)
    - Tomb Guard
    - Tomb Guard w/ Halberds
    - Cairn Wraiths

    Monsters and Constructs:
    - Fell Bats
    - Dire Wolves
    - Simulacra (Would function similar to tree kin)
    - Ushabti
    - Ushabti w/ Great Bows
    - Morghast Archai
    - Morghast Harbingers
    - Bone Golem (Dual weapons) (Necrolith Colossus reskin)
    - Bone Golem w/ Great Bow (Necrolith Colossus reskin)
    - Terrorgheist
    - Incarnate Elemental of Death

    Cavalry and Chariots:
    - Black Knights
    - Black Knights w/ Lances
    - Skeleton Horsemen
    - Skeleton Horse Archers
    - Barrow Kings (Chariots)
    - Corpse Cart (and all the variants)
    - Hexwraiths

    Artillery and War Machines:
    - Bolt Throwers
    - Mortis Engine
    - Screaming Skull Catapult
    - Casket of Souls
  • LabriaLabria Registered Users Posts: 1,332
    New race needs unique units and theme. I am against just random mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count units for Nagash race. This will be just another roque army, not unique new race.
    If we ever get Nagash race in game 3, I prefer Ossiarch Bonereapers army or Old Barrow Legion roster from White Dwarf for Nagash race:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/9pubgh/this_army_existed_heinrich_kemmler_army_of_the
    Dwarfs need Slayer Lord pack: https://imgur.com/x74HxxU
    Liu Chong and He Yi should be playable in 194.
  • kamenhero25kamenhero25 Registered Users Posts: 17
    Labria said:

    New race needs unique units and theme. I am against just random mix of Tomb Kings and Vampire Count units for Nagash race. This will be just another roque army, not unique new race.
    If we ever get Nagash race in game 3, I prefer Ossiarch Bonereapers army or Old Barrow Legion roster from White Dwarf for Nagash race:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/9pubgh/this_army_existed_heinrich_kemmler_army_of_the

    Personally, I've had the same thought about Nagash. The Army of the Lichmaster list was intentionally designed so that you could use the models as stand-ins for both Vampire Count and Tomb King armies so you didn't end up never using them if you didn't have people to play friendly, low seriousness games with. For example, the article mentions that Kemmler's heavy infantry (crude mummies called Entombed) are kit-bashed from Grave Guard and can stand in for Grave Guard or Tomb Guard in a more traditional army book game. That conveniently means that leaning on it for inspiration would fit Nagash's mix forces drawn from both vampiric necromancy and Nehekharan undead really well while also giving it its own flavor. Plus, the army included some very neat stuff like ethereal wizard heroes, tons of ethereal and tortured ghost units, and statues forcibly possessed by enslaved spirits to turn them into weapons. It feels very Nagash. Supplement it with some of the stuff about Nagashizhar from the army books (Bone Throwers, Screaming Skull Catapults, Morghasts, etc) and you could easily make a functional army that feels like more than just a mash up of the Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,259


    Eeewww.....

    Looks like something for 8 year olds.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • rothamon81rothamon81 AustriaRegistered Users Posts: 141

    Also, I think him dying on the battlefield should have even worse effects on his army than vampires; maybe even on the campaign map too. I'm interested what kind of mechanic they'll implement to balance him/his campaign.

    I think that the way he is when he's an enemy should be different than when you play as him. 2 good suggestions ive heard are that you shouldn't be able to start your campaign with nagash, but with one of the other lords like Arkhan or Neferrata having to collect items or do quests to summon him. Another idea was that when he is in a region, random armies of undead pop up around the map nearby.

    He should incredibly powerful, but as you say, if he dies in a battle undead should crumble especially quickly
    I do understand why going the way with summoning him with one of his mortarchs, thing is, if you start a campaign, most interesting thing for me is how each LL makes a difference in early game. I tend to have a main army with LL, and only support lords for different things who I disband very often later, even as undead. Trying to resurrect him would only make sense if if takes you at least until mid game bc why else bother anyway and by then you usually have a 20+ lord running around. Doing this with Neferata or Arkhan or any other named lord would be weird since they have/deserve their own campaign. I wouldn't mind playing a very weak Nagash from start, lets even say like a black coach with him inside it, rolling around a dead guy, sucking souls out from the living as after-battle choice to improve him. But as opposed to other lords, with bigger steps in his skill tree on the might-o-meter.
  • NagashizzarNagashizzar NagahsizzarRegistered Users Posts: 249
    I like it, but as long a we get Nagash.


    Nagash shall come!
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,317
    I would love to see End Times's Nagash. He is crazy stronger than Greater Daemon and so crazy cool model. Also other End Times stuffs too.
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • MiniaArMiniaAr Registered Users Posts: 569
    edited November 2019
    Nagash faction based on barrow legion would be my choice as well.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • wunderb0rwunderb0r Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 659
    OdTengri said:



    Eeewww.....

    Looks like something for 8 year olds.

    write it in your journal
  • Theo91Theo91 Registered Users Posts: 2,001
    I’m not keen. They should finish the BM and GS rosters, scrap amber, rejig the chaos invasion, finish game 3 and then if they have time after that, then work on the 4th iteration of undead in this game
  • RichardNRoundRichardNRound Registered Users Posts: 907
    Theo91 said:

    I’m not keen. They should finish the BM and GS rosters, scrap amber, rejig the chaos invasion, finish game 3 and then if they have time after that, then work on the 4th iteration of undead in this game

    I get where you're coming from, GS need an update and beastmen are really missing some units from their already small army list.

    That being said, they'll want to release race packs for game 3. A nagash faction in nagashizar fits that really well.
  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 571
    Theo91 said:

    I’m not keen. They should finish the BM and GS rosters, scrap amber, rejig the chaos invasion, finish game 3 and then if they have time after that, then work on the 4th iteration of undead in this game

    Well, I assure you that Nagash is race pack meat and one of the firsts we see. In fact, according to how they launch the game it could even be the first DLC we get (not counting the DLC of the blood that they relaunch in each game)
  • Hanzo11Hanzo11 Registered Users Posts: 72
    I'm really hoping Nagash makes it into the series as a playable Legendary lord. It would be a huge missed opportunity if he didn't. I have also wondered how he would be implemented within the game and how much new content would come with him. I completely agree that just making his army a hodgepodge of Vampire count and tomb king units would feel underwhelming, but there aren't all that many units that exist in the lore that haven't already been included within the game. There are dread abyssals, morghasts and spirit hosts but not much else that comes to my mind. The other challenge is considering how confederation would work for his faction. Would he be able to confederate the likes of Manfred, Vlad , Neferata, Arkhan and Harkon? They have all served him as mortarchs and this could be an interesting possibility to introduce their recruitment into his campaign objectives. There is also the question of how strong to make nagash in the early stages of his campaign. Even though his inclusion presents some challenges, I dont feel any of them are too problematic. CA should be able to make some of these aspects fun challenges to tackle as part of his campaign mechanics.
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