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This is Why We Can't Have Nice Things

SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,416
Ever since Repanse's reveal, the forums have been soiling themselves, filling up with complaints about how her timeline doesn't match up, or demands that she atleast be sexy if she's included, or people who are terrified that her inclusion means there's no room left for their favourite lord.

It's also hard to ignore the very real group of people who are complaining, just because we're getting another womz in our Vidya games.

And now that we've seen her, it's getting to the point where people are complaining that her armour is (like the real Joan of Arc's armour) 15th century French armour and not 14th century...yes, that's where we've arrived at!

But now problems have come to light. real, genuine problems:

1. Repanse doesn't have her Joan of Arc banner and sword and she seems to lack unique rigging/animations. Animating this could have been useful down the line, for implementing future characters and units that have banners, like Schwartzhelm. (Aslo, I hate using this word but it really is the iconic symbol of Joan of Arc).

2. She's a melee tank, which puts her at odds with what she was on TT and in real life. This is also a role that has already been filled by Louen and Alberic. Repanse could easily have a niche as a support lord, a hybrid lord with some casting abilities, or some anti-magic debuffing abilities (like she had on TT I believe).

3. Like all new stuff every DLC: She's OP, her sword buff is stronger than Gal Maraz...y'know...the Warhammer?!

These are valid critisizms and I really hope CA heeds them and works to make the character more unique and interesting...but here's the thing; for CA to hear those valid critisizms, they're going to have to wade through an ocean of fear, negatively, nitpicks and good old fashioned dumbass misogyny.

Your actions have consequences and if you choose to nitpick everything, to favour getting upset over being constructive, then anything valid or meaningful you have to say will be drowned out, the community becomes less effective at communicating what they want and the chances of you getting what you want become more and more diminished.

This is why CA uses Reddit instead of the forums. This is why we can't have nice things.
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Comments

  • angry_rat_loverangry_rat_lover Registered Users Posts: 1,458
    The banner is the worst one for sure, it hurts!
    Soon
  • WaaaghCheif#7753WaaaghCheif#7753 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,379
    Its a brave man standing up against rhe generalisation strawman.
  • AngloSovereignAngloSovereign Registered Users Posts: 170
    yeah the sword’s a bit much
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,823
    “demands that she atleast be sexy if she's included”

    You mean that she not be ugly.
  • Arthas_Menethil#3421Arthas_Menethil#3421 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,368
    edited November 2019
    She's also missing her shield which I admittedly didn't see at first from the images (TT wise don't know how I missed the shield).
    Though for a quick reference
    5th Edition rules (Red_Dox confirmed it for me).

    PartyElite image of Repanse in TW (probably the best person to take images of video wise since he shows characters and their abilities well).


    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231

    The banner is the worst one for sure, it hurts!

    Yeah where is the giant banner in her off hand.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,566
    "she is the questing knight LL
    louen grail knight LL
    alberic knight of the realm LL
    fey the caster LL "
    quote dahvplays
    pretty much sums her up plus she is on horse, while karl is on griffon. and the anti large bonus is scarier than anti infantry.
    as longs it is less then slayer of kings i am fine

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • Captain_Rex#1635Captain_Rex#1635 Hamburg, Germany Registered Users Posts: 38,054
    I’m happy that she is not ugly, but the banner is a missed opportunity.
    Summon the Elector Counts!
  • SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,416

    Its a brave man standing up against rhe generalisation strawman.

    I created this thread to basically respond to a bunch of people at once. This isn't a strawman, this is an @all message to everyone I've been talking to or seen talking about Repanse over the past few days (this kind of behaviour is persistent through the forums with every new inclusion, every debate on lore, every woman that gets added or is requested to be added).

    Strawman implies that these arguments are fake or this group of people doesn't exist but they do. I'm not accusing you personally or anyone who does not conduct themselves in this way to be guilty of X, Y and Z, I'm just trying to express frustration at this sort of thing, and I'm trying to refocus the conversation around Repanse so we can pluck out the decent arguments and stick to them, while distancing ourselves from the BS.
  • WaaaghCheif#7753WaaaghCheif#7753 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,379
    Sephlock said:

    “demands that she atleast be sexy if she's included”

    You mean that she not be ugly.

    Why yes I would love for Damsels not to have muddy textures, blocky polygons and grey hair.

    But that obviously translates to me wanting Damsels in a bikini.
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231

    Sephlock said:

    “demands that she atleast be sexy if she's included”

    You mean that she not be ugly.

    Why yes I would love for Damsels not to have muddy textures, blocky polygons and grey hair.
    They are supposed to be young maidens not old witches.
  • SephlockSephlock Registered Users Posts: 2,823
    Which is why our evil chauvinism warranted a callout thread.
  • Nico_NI#4726Nico_NI#4726 Registered Users Posts: 470

    "she is the questing knight LL
    louen grail knight LL
    alberic knight of the realm LL
    fey the caster LL "
    quote dahvplays
    pretty much sums her up plus she is on horse, while karl is on griffon. and the anti large bonus is scarier than anti infantry.
    as longs it is less then slayer of kings i am fine

    This is a quite accurate analysis
  • WaaaghCheif#7753WaaaghCheif#7753 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,379
    OdTengri said:

    They are supposed to be young maidens not old witches.

    Inb4 "They are beautiful by Bretonnia standards"
  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231

    OdTengri said:

    They are supposed to be young maidens not old witches.

    Inb4 "They are beautiful by Bretonnia standards"
    Good point... Looks like they have all their teeth...
  • SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,416
    edited November 2019
    @Sephlock @WaaaghCheif @OdTengri

    I agree that the Damsels look terrible, the witch elves too but there is a fine line when discussing them and some people end up going over the deep end and complaining that their breasts are too small and stuff like that. I want them to be better models as well, I just don't want them to be hyper sexualised or anything.

    I think repanse looks great and I'm very glad she's pretty...I'm also very glad she's not overly sexy.
  • saweendra#3399saweendra#3399 Registered Users Posts: 19,566

    OdTengri said:

    They are supposed to be young maidens not old witches.

    Inb4 "They are beautiful by Bretonnia standards"
    please brets have exquisite taste. the artist working on their models must have gotten fired

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc


  • OdTengri#8235OdTengri#8235 Registered Users Posts: 10,231
    Honestly I love that Repanse looks like a boy and uses all the same knight animations that are already in the game... Really blows a hole in the argument that she wouldn't be "Just" another knight.
  • Xenos777Xenos777 Registered Users Posts: 8,038
    It's FLC. Those are made on a budget, we already know that. With what little funds they got from the publisher, I'd say they did a decent job.
  • Neodeinos#5871Neodeinos#5871 Registered Users Posts: 16,106
    Maybe the budget for Repanse went into a unique mechanic for her. Given she is in the vortex I'd expect that for her, she's not going to do the Vortex race so they have to do something.
  • SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,416
    edited November 2019
    Xenos7 said:

    It's FLC. Those are made on a budget, we already know that. With what little funds they got from the publisher, I'd say they did a decent job.

    Sure but then again this DLC was kinda low maintenance for CA in many areas: we already have globodiers, the bloodwrack shrine is a Medusa on a Hag Queen mount and alot of Eshen's units use similar assets/basic rigs that already exist (I'm not trying to sh*t on the DLC though, Snikch and some of the animations look phenomenal and must have been difficult to create).

    We also aren't getting a faction rework this time. Then you look at other free content like the Empire update and you realise that isn't really an excuse.

    As I said in my OP, creating a model with a banner would have been useful later down the line, their workload here is severely reduced and the bar for free content is way higher than this, so where's the excuse?
  • TheGuardianOfMetal#3661TheGuardianOfMetal#3661 Senior Member GermanyRegistered Users Posts: 14,701
    edited November 2019

    Xenos7 said:

    It's FLC. Those are made on a budget, we already know that. With what little funds they got from the publisher, I'd say they did a decent job.

    Sure but then again this DLC was kinda low maintenance for CA in many areas: we already have globodiers, the bloodwrack shrine is a Medusa on a Bag Queen mount and alot of Eshen's units use similar assets/basic rigs that already exist (I'm not trying to sh*t on the DLC though, Snikch and some of the animations look phenomenal and must have been difficult to create).


    We also aren't getting a faction rework this time. Then you look at other free content like the Empire update and you realise that isn't really an excuse.

    As I said in my OP, creating a model with a banner would have been useful later down the line. So with all of this in mind, their workload here is severely reduced and the bar for free content is way higher than this.
    pretty much

    kasunrathnatunga said:"she is the questing knight LL
    louen grail knight LL
    alberic knight of the realm LL
    fey the caster LL "
    quote dahvplays
    pretty much sums her up plus she is on horse, while karl is on griffon. and the anti large bonus is scarier than anti infantry.
    as longs it is less then slayer of kings i am fine



    no it's not fine. Ghal Maraz has been severly UP since game 1. It's GHAL MARAZ, iirc Sigmar in the End Times actually broke the Slayer of Kings. Ghal Maraz has been forged by the Ancestor Gods. in Custom and MP it should be stronger, in Campaign maybe give it a mechanic that can get it to the level of the Widowmaker, where it should be. Hey. That's actually a nice idea... Ghal Maraz and the WIdowmaker could get a mechanic where they can be strengthened via quests



    Karl has griffon, and? DOesn't mean he gets used on it because it makes him a better ranged target. Both on foot and AL is awsted. Both on horse an AL plays a role but Repanse still has a far more substantial buff
    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,416
    neodeinos said:

    Maybe the budget for Repanse went into a unique mechanic for her. Given she is in the vortex I'd expect that for her, she's not going to do the Vortex race so they have to do something.

    I really hope so, I'm holding my breath until we see her campaign. I really don't want us to have to dump her into the "Please fix CA" pile along with Nakai, Beastmen, Wood Elves, Tehenauin and other lords.
  • WaaaghCheif#7753WaaaghCheif#7753 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,379

    (this kind of behaviour is persistent through the forums with every new inclusion, every debate on lore, every woman that gets added or is requested to be added).

    It's part of the internet, free discourse, you are gonna need a thicker skin,there will always be dissidents in whatever community. Don't let a vocal minority discourage you.

    I want them to be better models as well, I just don't want them to be hyper sexualised or anything.

    The frustrating thing for me, and many others in regards to this arguement is;

    I don't want them to be SEXUALISED, I want them to beautiful.

    DAMSELS are arguably bad on a TECHNICAL aspect, blocky textures and polygons. Hard shaded textures. Compare Repanse or even Prophetesses face to the Damsel.

    When I point this out people sperg out comments about Pornhub, sex, bigot at me. When that is beside the point I try to make. Damsels share the same problem that the Steam Tank did, horrible textures (probably a symptom of polycount).

  • Xenos777Xenos777 Registered Users Posts: 8,038

    Xenos7 said:

    It's FLC. Those are made on a budget, we already know that. With what little funds they got from the publisher, I'd say they did a decent job.

    Sure but then again this DLC was kinda low maintenance for CA in many areas: we already have globodiers, the bloodwrack shrine is a Medusa on a Hag Queen mount and alot of Eshen's units use similar assets/basic rigs that already exist (I'm not trying to sh*t on the DLC though, Snikch and some of the animations look phenomenal and must have been difficult to create).

    We also aren't getting a faction rework this time. Then you look at other free content like the Empire update and you realise that isn't really an excuse.

    As I said in my OP, creating a model with a banner would have been useful later down the line, their workload here is severely reduced and the bar for free content is way higher than this, so where's the excuse?
    It still looks like more work than Queen and Crone. That one was really unacceptable. This is run of the mill. They didn't outdo themselves, but I think we can all agree that it's fair for the price.
  • SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,416
    @WaaaghCheif

    This isn't about me it's about the state of the community in general. I'm not personally offended I just think it's childish and counter productive.

    Like I said, I'm not accusing you personally of being at fault if you don't genuinely think that or write about that, I never named names and I'm not going to, those people know who they are.

    I want them to be better models too, I want guys in the game like Alith Anar to look better also, I think this DLC was a step in the right direction: Malice, the Meduca and Repanse all look great, like attractive people. I want them to make some of the older models better and that includes the Witch elves and Damsels.

    Like I said, it's a fine line to walk and some people genuinely want bigger breasts and more fap material. Not saying you do but I have genuinely heard this from people.
  • SeanJeanquoi#3490SeanJeanquoi#3490 Registered Users Posts: 3,416
    @Xenos7

    Totally agree that it's fair, even if you think it's sub par I think it's still fair to get it and pay for the upkeep of the game as a whole, future reworks and all that. I don't think we need a Prophet and the Warlock every week.

    My point wasn't to bash CA for bein lazy, my point was they set the bar higher than this so asking for something relatively small like getting a more unique more functional and more lore friendly Repanse isn't unreasonable given the work they've done in the past and how it could be useful in the future.
  • BabyYetiBabyYeti RussiaRegistered Users Posts: 376

    The banner is the worst one for sure, it hurts!

    To be honest, fight with giant banner in another hand is kinda ridiculous. She is not a regular standard-bearer you know.
  • TheGuardianOfMetal#3661TheGuardianOfMetal#3661 Senior Member GermanyRegistered Users Posts: 14,701
    edited November 2019

    The banner is the worst one for sure, it hurts!

    To be honest, fight with giant banner in another hand is kinda ridiculous. She is not a regular standard-bearer you know.
    no, She's a Special character standard bearer, like Ludwig Schwarzhelm... oh god... i bet if CA ever does Schwarzhelm (which i admitttedly doubt), he likely will be 2h sword or sword n board!

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • angry_rat_loverangry_rat_lover Registered Users Posts: 1,458

    The banner is the worst one for sure, it hurts!

    To be honest, fight with giant banner in another hand is kinda ridiculous. She is not a regular standard-bearer you know.
    But she is a standard-bearer, that is her role...
    Soon
This discussion has been closed.