Wood elf match ups

BovineKing

So wood elf player here are they loosing ground with update currently the only factions I feel confident against are vampires, chaos and Bretonnia. That last one is probably gonna change with update. One of the biggest problems I see as wood elves is fast sem is starting to become harder to counter with updates

Lotus_Moon

BovineKing said:

So wood elf player here are they loosing ground with update currently the only factions I feel confident against are vampires, chaos and Bretonnia. That last one is probably gonna change with update. One of the biggest problems I see as wood elves is fast sem is starting to become harder to counter with updates

Nah WE are what i consider in almost the most perfect spot, when it comes to strenghts and weaknasses, decent range of match-ups nothing except bretonnia is too dramatic but even that is not as bad as it used to be. Ill rate you all my WE match ups from 0 to 10 with 0 being auto win and 10 impossible

Bret - 7
BM - 4
Chaos - 5
DE - 3
Dwarfs - 6
Empire - 5
GS - 5
HE - 6
LZM - 5
Norsca - 6
SKV - 7
TK - 6
VC - 5
VP - 4

Average is 5.3.

Now considering that i think LZM/SKV/Emp and TK are slightly overtunned i think that overall thats a quite decent average, some of those match-ups differ depending on perspective also, but overall i think WE's are in quite a good spot

2 trully bad matchups, and 1 really good one is not bad at all, rest are from decent to meh.

BovineKing

idk that I agree with the list just off personal experience its really hard for wood elves to deal with dread saurian it has it’s way with archers. Bretonnia I’ve never had issue with as wood elves. Beastmen is weird cause I never get the standard rush and instead end up fighting mass gors with shields.

Lotus_Moon

BovineKing said:

idk that I agree with the list just off personal experience its really hard for wood elves to deal with dread saurian it has it’s way with archers. Bretonnia I’ve never had issue with as wood elves. Beastmen is weird cause I never get the standard rush and instead end up fighting mass gors with shields.

Its one of the two match-ups dread surian is bad in, vs WE and vs Coast.

Bret on the other hand is very hard for WE but ofcourse personal experience can differ and make you think otherwise, i base my view on about 7000+ games with WE's and its what i find hard to deal with both from playing them and playing those factions against them.

The reason bret might seem not hard is becasue not many players out there can control 7+ cav well and that kind of army is great against WE's.

Wyvern2

Lotus_Moon said:

BovineKing said:

So wood elf player here are they loosing ground with update currently the only factions I feel confident against are vampires, chaos and Bretonnia. That last one is probably gonna change with update. One of the biggest problems I see as wood elves is fast sem is starting to become harder to counter with updates

Nah WE are what i consider in almost the most perfect spot, when it comes to strenghts and weaknasses, decent range of match-ups nothing except bretonnia is too dramatic but even that is not as bad as it used to be. Ill rate you all my WE match ups from 0 to 10 with 0 being auto win and 10 impossible

Bret - 7
BM - 4
Chaos - 5
DE - 3
Dwarfs - 6
Empire - 5
GS - 5
HE - 6
LZM - 5
Norsca - 6
SKV - 7
TK - 6
VC - 5
VP - 4

Average is 5.3.

Now considering that i think LZM/SKV/Emp and TK are slightly overtunned i think that overall thats a quite decent average, some of those match-ups differ depending on perspective also, but overall i think WE's are in quite a good spot

2 trully bad matchups, and 1 really good one is not bad at all, rest are from decent to meh.

Generally agree with your list, but do you really think BM is a 4? I'd think it's closer to a dead even 5. I feel like the matchup boils down to mindgames since both factions have a lot of different approaches, but maybe it's just my limited experience(mostly from the Beastmen side of things to boot)

Lotus_Moon

Wyvern2 said:

Lotus_Moon said:

BovineKing said:

So wood elf player here are they loosing ground with update currently the only factions I feel confident against are vampires, chaos and Bretonnia. That last one is probably gonna change with update. One of the biggest problems I see as wood elves is fast sem is starting to become harder to counter with updates

Nah WE are what i consider in almost the most perfect spot, when it comes to strenghts and weaknasses, decent range of match-ups nothing except bretonnia is too dramatic but even that is not as bad as it used to be. Ill rate you all my WE match ups from 0 to 10 with 0 being auto win and 10 impossible

Bret - 7
BM - 4
Chaos - 5
DE - 3
Dwarfs - 6
Empire - 5
GS - 5
HE - 6
LZM - 5
Norsca - 6
SKV - 7
TK - 6
VC - 5
VP - 4

Average is 5.3.

Now considering that i think LZM/SKV/Emp and TK are slightly overtunned i think that overall thats a quite decent average, some of those match-ups differ depending on perspective also, but overall i think WE's are in quite a good spot

2 trully bad matchups, and 1 really good one is not bad at all, rest are from decent to meh.

Generally agree with your list, but do you really think BM is a 4? I'd think it's closer to a dead even 5. I feel like the matchup boils down to mindgames since both factions have a lot of different approaches, but maybe it's just my limited experience(mostly from the Beastmen side of things to boot)

I didn't want to write WE having no good match-ups so i think bm is closer to 4.5 just rounded it down.

I say WE do have more room for error in army builds.

BovineKing

I still don’t agree with lizardmen this has more to do with alot of they’re new units maybe being under utilized. As far as bretonia I’ve almost always countered cav with my own and poison glade riders the debuff throws cav trade in woodelves favor.

Lotus_Moon

BovineKing said:

I still don’t agree with lizardmen this has more to do with alot of they’re new units maybe being under utilized. As far as bretonia I’ve almost always countered cav with my own and poison glade riders the debuff throws cav trade in woodelves favor.

It does not, grails can kill 3 wild riders each even realm smash wild riders.

BovineKing

Debuff from sisters of thorn boost there damage with a caster they deff win the exchange it deff works.

Pussy_Warrior

BovineKing said:

Debuff from sisters of thorn boost there damage with a caster they deff win the exchange it deff works.

i beaten much better players then me as bret vs WE even in tourneys and I am a rookye bret player, i just bring a lot of cav and run WE over, usually pretty fast games too, so ur argument "i do this i do that" is all good in theory but in practice u gonna get run over by better mobility and hard hitting cav while the very cheap bret infantry tie down ur front line.

BovineKing

I get where your coming from I’m just saying wood elves can rotate out archers altogether in favor of glade riders and more wild riders. So yeah it’s not a normal wood elf strategy. Idk if this is because I’m dead center of the rankings but I find the meta is not reflective of vast majority of players most of the time somebody runs a gimmick that counters what’s expected.

Lotus_Moon

BovineKing said:

Debuff from sisters of thorn boost there damage with a caster they deff win the exchange it deff works.

wild riders + sisters = 2300g and yet 1500g grails, im certain win even with all spelsl active, the PR spell is usless the other jus tmeans less MA...boo hooo... i dont belive they grails loose at all, im very certian they win badly still

We can always play few games so i can try show you why i fidn it hard.

BovineKing

Wasn’t talking about pr spell was talking bout the aoe debuff from sisters in combination with lore beast ap spell. Legit played this out 2 days think the player only had 3 cav units but one grail knight and 2 of the rors i had one sister of thorn and 2 wild riders and 4 poison glade riders backing them who did also to be fair vanguard and kite them into the my wild riders

hanen

BovineKing said:

Wasn’t talking about pr spell was talking bout the aoe debuff from sisters in combination with lore beast ap spell. Legit played this out 2 days think the player only had 3 cav units but one grail knight and 2 of the rors i had one sister of thorn and 2 wild riders and 4 poison glade riders backing them who did also to be fair vanguard and kite them into the my wild riders

Wait what

So your 7 units of cav won vs his 3?

OrkLads

BovineKing said:

Wasn’t talking about pr spell was talking bout the aoe debuff from sisters in combination with lore beast ap spell. Legit played this out 2 days think the player only had 3 cav units but one grail knight and 2 of the rors i had one sister of thorn and 2 wild riders and 4 poison glade riders backing them who did also to be fair vanguard and kite them into the my wild riders

I think this is where you and Lotus will be disagreeing. A good bret player will bring 6+ units of heavy cav vs Wood Elves, which is extremely difficult for them to deal with even if only 2 are Grails.

hanen said:

BovineKing said:

Wasn’t talking about pr spell was talking bout the aoe debuff from sisters in combination with lore beast ap spell. Legit played this out 2 days think the player only had 3 cav units but one grail knight and 2 of the rors i had one sister of thorn and 2 wild riders and 4 poison glade riders backing them who did also to be fair vanguard and kite them into the my wild riders

Wait what

So your 7 units of cav won vs his 3?

Comment deleted.

Lotus_Moon

BovineKing said:

Wasn’t talking about pr spell was talking bout the aoe debuff from sisters in combination with lore beast ap spell. Legit played this out 2 days think the player only had 3 cav units but one grail knight and 2 of the rors i had one sister of thorn and 2 wild riders and 4 poison glade riders backing them who did also to be fair vanguard and kite them into the my wild riders

Which spell did Bret use to support it? because bret have magic also.

But if bret brings only 3 cav thats not really too hard to beat, like i said problems start when brets bring 6+ or 8+ cav, which they pretty much should all the time vs WE

hanen

hanen said:

BovineKing said:

Wasn’t talking about pr spell was talking bout the aoe debuff from sisters in combination with lore beast ap spell. Legit played this out 2 days think the player only had 3 cav units but one grail knight and 2 of the rors i had one sister of thorn and 2 wild riders and 4 poison glade riders backing them who did also to be fair vanguard and kite them into the my wild riders

Wait what

So your 7 units of cav won vs his 3?

Comment deleted.


Comment deleted.

Regarding learning I think its important to question someones reasoning. Step one when it comes down to faction vs faction balance is to disregard bad builds and tactics. I've played the match up many times and its a free win vs someone who doesn't know what he is doing. But vs a good opponent it can be really, really rough.