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Random stuttering in battles and campaign

elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15

I can run this game quite smoothly and consistently at mostly 60fps with high settings (with some ultra sprinkled in) and ultra unit sizes on my rzyen 7 3700x and 5700 xt. That said, even when dropping down to large unit sizes, or keeping ultra unit sizes and dropping down to the same settings I had on my previous r7 1700 and gtx 970, I get constant stuttering in any battle and some on the campaign map. I've examined every possible fix on the internet I could find or execute with no results. There doesn't SEEM to be a bottleneck or heating issue when examining graphs. But I'm getting constant stutters from what seems to be frame time issues regardless. There's been only two times where stuttering was at an absolute minimum if there at all. In a battle where I barely moved the camera at all, and never held shift to move it quickly, and another time when I dumped down to large units, no AA, no sharpening, and low fog (I think, but for sure no AA and no sharpening). I can run the Ultra preset in the Skaven battle bench at Ultra settings and maintain pretty much 60fps all the way till the end where it drops into about the 40s so long as ryzen master is open and auto overclocked, and my GPU is auto overclocked with radeon software. Otherwise it dips into the low mid 50s in the middle of the bench and into the mid high 30s at the end of the bench. But I'm not super keen on constantly having my CPU overclocked at all, especially considering ryzen master has to always be on for the settings to remain and I don't particularly want to mess with it in the BIOS. Utilization seems normal, not OCed CPU hovers around 20-30%. GPU seems to hover around 40-50%. Vsync is always on, otherwise theres literally no smoothness at all. WIndowed mode as well. Sometimes unlimited vram is on, sometimes I try it off, doesn't seem to make a difference.

Its really annoying. I know this game can run smoothly with high/ultra settings, it shows that it can, but it has random stuttering that seems mostly connected to camera movement, but I'm not sure. All my testing has been done with the same custom battle, two dark elf armies roughly the same size, maybe 1200ish characters on each side. Sometimes it stutters when units get into combat, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it stutters when zoomed in, sometimes it doesn't. Lots of spell effects cause no noticeable FPS drops or stuttering either. I've also tried setting game to High Priority through task manager, stuttering still happens according to graphs but I don't seem to feel it as much but I don't want to have to set that EVERY time I go to play this game.

Finally, DX12 makes it perform worse not better, so I never use it.

I'm about at the end of my patience with this nonsense, any help or advice would be extremely appreciated.

PS. The stuttering does NOT seem to exist in other games. I think I caught it happening in the witcher 3 some, but no other game I've tested has shown stuttering anywhere like Warhammer 2. It's clear that the 5700 xt is a powerful GPU, but apparently not with this game.

Comments

  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    edited December 2019
    Apologies, I’m at work and can’t provide some of that information.

    Build:
    CPU: ryzen 7 3700x
    GPU:Sapphire pulse 5700 xt
    RAM: 16gb Corsair vengeance 3200mz
    SSD: Western Digital 1tb
    MOBO: Asus Tuf-gaming X570 plus

    Description is above...

    Reproduction:
    Two opposing dark elf armies custom battle on tower of hoeth map. Can provide specific units later. Otherwise it makes no difference, game stutter in any battle, less so in campaign map but it’s still there. Skaven benchmark doesn’t seem to show stuttering and gives me seemingly better performance. (Till the last few seconds anyway, but I’d prefer a normal consistent FPS drop than a 1 second brief stutter that happens completely randomly but frequently enough to be bothersome.

    Additionally, I’ve had full display shut offs playing on the new black ark landing map. Game will try to reload the visuals and see just awful amounts of artefacts, missing textures, missing landscapes missing UI textures.

    To reproduce that, from the attackers viewpoint, moving the camera to the top right on the map and facing north west seems to cause it, I’ve reproduced it at least 3 times. Have to restart pc each time.

    Also, sometimes when changing graphics the game will have trouble loading and display will shut off and will usually reload, but it’s similar to the above black ark issue, but without me needing to restart the computer. This is rarer but it has happened, most recently after reducing unit size to large and loading the custom battle with two DE armies.

    Attempted solutions:
    Over clocking GPU
    Over clocking CPU
    Enabled XMP for 3200hz from ram
    Over clocking both together
    Disabling most Radeon settings
    Enabling Radeon chill and disabling/enabling vsync
    Using Radeon enhanced sync, both with and without vsync
    Setting process to high priority
    Disabling cores
    Disabling simultaneous multi threading
    Adjusting in game graphical settings (more stutters at ultra preset but still seems like it wants to run smoothly, skaven benchmark gives a 50+average vsync on and 70+vsync off).
    Windowed mode mostly.
    Also tried full screen, better performance overall in windowed it seems, no stuttering change.
    Reducing unit size, turning off AA, reducing fog.
    Went so far as to run mostly medium settings with ultra unit size, still stutters.
    Tried high power performance, and AMD high power performance.
    Checked for correct and up to date chipset
    Updated BIOS
    Using Adrenalin 2020, 19.12.2
    Have reinstalled with DDU as well.
    Tested other total war games for stutter, Attila and three kingdoms, both have stuttering. TK has it at high preset ultra unit sizes. Attila has it the worse at high quality and quality settings.
    Tried other games, Witcher 3 sometimes had stutter, other games do not. Vermintide 2 runs 60fps wonderfully at high settings consistently.


    Will be able to provide more info this afternoon.
  • Atunis2Atunis2 Registered Users Posts: 28
    edited December 2019
    I have similar issues with my system since the latest patch and I also do not have any idea where the performance decrease is comming from. My CPU and GPU utilization are also nowhere near the limit.

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/256109/performance-decrease-with-the-potion-of-speed-patch#latest

    I would be interested to know how your skaven benchmark looks like with your High/ultra settings simply to make results camperable.

    The stutterung is defenitly connected the camera movement but from my experience this has always been problem since WH I. A few month ago I had some smaller frame drops at the end of the benchmark but only 5 fps or something for just 1 or 2 seconds and with current patch it drops like 20 fps for 10 seconds...The overall ingame performance is also much worse than before.

    But yeah this seems to be a part of WH and I have never got any reply by ca support to performance relatet issues over the last years. We can only hope performance will improve again with later patches before it goes down again afterwards -.-
    i7 6700k~4,6Ghz RTX 2080 16GB Ram SSD Win 10
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    I ran the skaven benchmark last night and while I can’t remember the specifics right now I know that I never went under 30 at the end of it. I’ll absolutely get back to you this afternoon when I get home from work.

    If you go to the website game-debate, and put in your system specs for the 2080, it’ll show it’s only about 31% above above the line for performance for Warhammer 2. I think at 1080p is the line it presents you the number will look like 131%. My 5700 xt is about 115%. So it’s not an insane difference. I’m not sure whether my precious 970 suffered the stuttering as I wasn’t looking for it really, I’m hyper focused on issues currently since I JUST got this new rig. But our systems are similar enough that comparisons should be easy to understand. My point on the game-debate site however is that it appears the GPU is a bottleneck for the system, but reducing the graphics or overclocking does not seem to reduce the amount of stuttering to an unnoticeable degree.
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    Okay, I've got photos and DxDiag for you and CA.

    This is the Ultra preset test, only turned on Vsync, with Radeon's frame time graph and fps margin (which I don't think is ever quite accurate)


    Apologies I think I cut off the fps/frame time margin here.

    This is the high preset, again, only turned on Vsync, this turns off AA and puts unit size to large



    Finally I have my desired settings, that I think I should be able to play smoothly for the most part, and that I've been playing most with. I've gone back and forth between Ultra and High textures, and back and forth on unlimited memory. Would like to run SSAO as well, but I'm not sure that I can if I want consistent frames (which I don't get anyway).




    Blood is also on for each bench

    The stutter I'm experiencing is best reported in the frame time, however its more difficult to gauge in the skaven benchmark, I can't see the stuttering despite it being reported apparently, but it is apparent in actual gameplay. Those larger spikes may also be from my exiting of the application, or ending of the battle and load screen. Typically it jumps to ~33ms, where it needs 16 for smooth 60 and no stutter. I'm not entirely convinced its due to the graphical options, if that were the case, FPS would simply drop and stay low at certain points, and go back up as I either zoom out or move around. Which is why it is unusual that camera movement seems my biggest cause of the stutters.
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    Quick update again, I just unplugged my secondary monitor and that SEEMS to have reduced a lot of the stuttering. I can't confirm it yet, but it's not even a proper monitor, its actually an old emerson 32 inch flatscreen tv. I think it could be causing problems. I'm also going to try turning off radeon's software so its not even running in the background.
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    edited December 2019
    Turning off the second monitor doesn't work, further tests didn't change anything. Couldn't turn off radeon settings either if I wanted to launch a battle. Tried setting the radeon settings to have "Wait for Vertical Refresh Always on" set to "On" and the next battle after that appeared smoother, but radeon setting still recorded the same stutters I've been getting. I'll probably keep playing with wait for vsync on for a while and see how it feels. Really wish CA would do hotfixes for performance, instead of waiting for DLC for any updating,



    This is my issue, and the graph of the stuttering. This is what I see happen every time I play, jumps to 33ish ms frame time. Never just consistent lag from lots going on, just the stuttering. There has bee only two times this didn't happen in the same custom battle test. Once for no apparently reason, just got lucky and it ran smooth, couldn't replicate it. The second when AA was off, sharpening off, and unit size large. Think those were the big things I turned down. Rest was high settings.
  • Atunis2Atunis2 Registered Users Posts: 28
    edited December 2019
    Very interesting...2 completely different systems AMD and Intel/Nvidia and 100% the same problem.

    Tested on 1440p:




    I have done the same test again with 1080p and received exactly the same results. Fps drops heavily from solid 60 to 40 while CPU and GPU is not over 60% utilisation. So this is defenitly not system related issue.


    elvincino said:



    Finally I have my desired settings, that I think I should be able to play smoothly for the most part, and that I've been playing most with. I've gone back and forth between Ultra and High textures, and back and forth on unlimited memory. Would like to run SSAO as well, but I'm not sure that I can if I want consistent frames (which I don't get anyway).



    The problem is that these frame drops happen much more often in normal battles what makes the game constantly lagging. And I'm afraid you will not be able to solve this by changing the settings.
    It seems CA made some changes in graphics and now we have this huge performance loss...again.

    Just a few month ago I could play a 2000+ battle with constant 60fps with higher settings and now its lagging even in much smaller battles.

    Could we have any support feedback to this issue please?
    Post edited by Atunis2 on
    i7 6700k~4,6Ghz RTX 2080 16GB Ram SSD Win 10
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    Yes, even by reducing unit size and turning off AA there’s still times that I’ll experience the stutter. So it happens regardless it seems. It’s completely inconsistent in my experience.
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    Was able to tune a couple things that make things feel a little smoother... However I also put shadows down to medium which seems to have had a large impact too. There seems to be issues with the PCIE 4 on mobos such as my x570 and others that support it. Turning those down to 3 seems to have helped. Additionally, 5700 xt doesn't seem to work well with DOCP/XMP profiles enabled. So I actually had to downclock my RAM down to its stock usage, this also seemed to help. It continues to stutter on occasion but it feels much more stable.

    Unfortunately going through all this absolute bull crap to get this thing a little more optimized has really burned me. I have until about January 30 to return the card to amazon for a refund and am going to be considering it highly through the next month and get a 2070 super or something. I know people have had problems with their RTX cards as well, but I've more history with nivida cards and am somewhat more confident in their stability. All the tiny things I've had to adjust and time I've had to spend on forums and not on games has been really frustrating.
  • wisedudewisedude Registered Users Posts: 47
    edited December 2019
    elvincino said:

    Was able to tune a couple things that make things feel a little smoother... However I also put shadows down to medium which seems to have had a large impact too. There seems to be issues with the PCIE 4 on mobos such as my x570 and others that support it. Turning those down to 3 seems to have helped. Additionally, 5700 xt doesn't seem to work well with DOCP/XMP profiles enabled. So I actually had to downclock my RAM down to its stock usage, this also seemed to help. It continues to stutter on occasion but it feels much more stable.

    Unfortunately going through all this absolute bull crap to get this thing a little more optimized has really burned me. I have until about January 30 to return the card to amazon for a refund and am going to be considering it highly through the next month and get a 2070 super or something. I know people have had problems with their RTX cards as well, but I've more history with nivida cards and am somewhat more confident in their stability. All the tiny things I've had to adjust and time I've had to spend on forums and not on games has been really frustrating.

    video of the issue.Same thing happens when to armies attack each other in the campaign map when in close up.Issue seems to be tied to battle difficulty for some reason.Mainly happens in mortal empires but I can be wrong.

    My rig:1080ti/9900k/16gb 3200mhz/970 evo

    https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/22864350

    Some other things I noticed:Certain factions for example have erratic/jittery/jump camera movement in campaign map while other don't.When choosing the empire(karl for example) and you move the camera around you can feel the camera is jittery/jumpy while if you choose malekith its mostly smooth.Is it area specific?

    Also noticed in battles if you move the camera around while you're hovering back and forth between spells this causes micro stutters.
    Post edited by wisedude on
  • Atunis2Atunis2 Registered Users Posts: 28
    @elvincino

    I found this:

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/256109/performance-decrease-with-the-potion-of-speed-patch#latest
    elvincino said:

    .

    Unfortunately going through all this absolute bull crap to get this thing a little more optimized has really burned me. I have until about January 30 to return the card to amazon for a refund and am going to be considering it highly through the next month and get a 2070 super or something. I know people have had problems with their RTX cards as well, but I've more history with nivida cards and am somewhat more confident in their stability. All the tiny things I've had to adjust and time I've had to spend on forums and not on games has been really frustrating.

    Why would you do that? The bad performance people experience is not related to your GPU. The game engine seems currently badly optimised / broken.
    I was is the same situation in 2018 not sure after which DLC... CA changed something on the graphics and suddendly I hab very bad performance on my gtx1070. I upgraded with a very expensive 1080ti and still had the same bad performance. I send the card back and didn't touch the game for over 6 month until the prophet and the warlock came out. Bought a 2080 and for several month I had a really great performance with nearly all ultra settings.
    And now her we go again > performance is suddenly crap. CA does this strange "optimization" since WHI and I assure your changing your GPU will currently not do anything until they fix performance again...
    i7 6700k~4,6Ghz RTX 2080 16GB Ram SSD Win 10
  • DarthMarkoDarthMarko Registered Users Posts: 22
    Agree. I hope when they release 3080ti, we will get rid of bn and have 60fps on full 4k resolution.

    P.S.

    SSAO shimmer is still present
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    Atunis2 said:

    @elvincino

    I found this:

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/256109/performance-decrease-with-the-potion-of-speed-patch#latest

    elvincino said:

    .

    Unfortunately going through all this absolute bull crap to get this thing a little more optimized has really burned me. I have until about January 30 to return the card to amazon for a refund and am going to be considering it highly through the next month and get a 2070 super or something. I know people have had problems with their RTX cards as well, but I've more history with nivida cards and am somewhat more confident in their stability. All the tiny things I've had to adjust and time I've had to spend on forums and not on games has been really frustrating.

    Why would you do that? The bad performance people experience is not related to your GPU. The game engine seems currently badly optimised / broken.
    I was is the same situation in 2018 not sure after which DLC... CA changed something on the graphics and suddendly I hab very bad performance on my gtx1070. I upgraded with a very expensive 1080ti and still had the same bad performance. I send the card back and didn't touch the game for over 6 month until the prophet and the warlock came out. Bought a 2080 and for several month I had a really great performance with nearly all ultra settings.
    And now her we go again > performance is suddenly crap. CA does this strange "optimization" since WHI and I assure your changing your GPU will currently not do anything until they fix performance again...
    I didn’t have stuttering like this on my 970 a couple weeks ago before I upgraded. Total war is just one of the worst offenders. I’ve had several other games have stuttering that by no means should; wasteland 2, pillars of eternity 2, the Witcher 3, shadow run dragonfall(I think that’s its name?), three kingdoms performs great in benchmark, poorly in game like Warhammer 2. I’m fed up with the card and I know nvidia is reliable. I shouldn’t have had to downclock my RAM and turn off PCIE 4 to 3. Even if I don’t get perfect performance in Warhammer 2 with a 2070s I’ll at least probably eliminate the stuttering in games that aren’t even graphically demanding.

    I’ve done an obsessive amount of research on the card and this isn’t unusual. I’m more comfortable replacing it with a 2070 super where I know 80% of my time won’t be spent troubleshooting and optimizing stupid software settings.
  • Atunis2Atunis2 Registered Users Posts: 28
    elvincino said:

    .

    I didn’t have stuttering like this on my 970 a couple weeks ago before I upgraded. Total war is just one of the worst offenders. I’ve had several other games have stuttering that by no means should; wasteland 2, pillars of eternity 2, the Witcher 3, shadow run dragonfall(I think that’s its name?), three kingdoms performs great in benchmark, poorly in game like Warhammer 2. I’m fed up with the card and I know nvidia is reliable. I shouldn’t have had to downclock my RAM and turn off PCIE 4 to 3. Even if I don’t get perfect performance in Warhammer 2 with a 2070s I’ll at least probably eliminate the stuttering in games that aren’t even graphically demanding.


    Well I would maintain regarding the WH performance a "couple of weeks ago" was before the patch...but if you alos have probs with other games you might really change the card.

    I would be very interested to see if your skaven bench will improve afterwards.





    i7 6700k~4,6Ghz RTX 2080 16GB Ram SSD Win 10
  • wisedudewisedude Registered Users Posts: 47
    Do you guys also get this type of stutter when hovering mouse over spell? Seems to only happen after some time after 2 armies clash.Could be the CD of the spells?

    Looking for ppl with similar stutter

    I'm on dx11.Do you also happen to have this?
  • elvincinoelvincino Registered Users Posts: 15
    Got my 2070 super installed, benchmarks are pretty much the same as the 5700 xt (no surprise there really) but the same custom battle I tested last ran completely perfect at High settings, Ultra unit sizes, FXAA, SSAO off. I could probably even turn some settings up even. NO stuttering whatsoever. Problem solved, was the 5700 xt.
  • wisedudewisedude Registered Users Posts: 47
    elvincino said:

    Got my 2070 super installed, benchmarks are pretty much the same as the 5700 xt (no surprise there really) but the same custom battle I tested last ran completely perfect at High settings, Ultra unit sizes, FXAA, SSAO off. I could probably even turn some settings up even. NO stuttering whatsoever. Problem solved, was the 5700 xt.

    Was the stutter constant? or when doing certain things?
  • peacefull76peacefull76 Registered Users Posts: 2
    I don’t know if this is going to help in any ways but I have the game on mac and although the game runs smoothly ~60fps, as soon as I move my mouse, not even the camera, just moving the cursor around, the game freezes for as long as the mouse is in movement and it resumes as if nothing happened when I let go.

    I have a logitech g600 mmo mouse and tried unplugging it to play with the touch pad of my macbook pro and much to my surprise, the stutter is completely gone!

    I know this may not be a solution for desktop but that may be a hint as to a potential solution since switching mouse fixed the issue for me. (I just can’t enjoy this on a touch pad which is why I hope I can find a way to circumvent the « no gaming mouse thing »)

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