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I want balanced armies!

ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 13,338
I‘m really tired of fighting HE super Doomstacks so I‘m looking for a nice unit Caps mod based on TT rules. I love to have balanced armies with only some elite units as a little extra. It’s just sad that all those basic frontline units just get worthless around turn 50...

Which mod is the best to use here?

Thanks in advance guys.
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Comments

  • MasariusMasarius Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,000
    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.
    Till shade is gone,
    till water is gone,
    into the Shadow with the teeth bared,
    screaming defiance with the last breath,
    to spit into Sightblinder's eye on the Last Day
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 13,338
    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    Well a Doomstack is something like:
    6 Phoenix Guard
    4 Swordmasters
    4 Dragon princes
    2 Dragons
    2 Phoenixes

    That’s a standard HE army around turn 50. gets really boring to fight against those units because you are forced to spam elite units as well. I always like to have realistic armies, with some basic units flavoured with some elites here and there.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 13,338
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • CelebareCelebare Registered Users Posts: 66
    edited December 2019
    I agree it's a great mod
    ArneSo said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    Well a Doomstack is something like:
    6 Phoenix Guard
    4 Swordmasters
    4 Dragon princes
    2 Dragons
    2 Phoenixes

    That’s a standard HE army around turn 50. gets really boring to fight against those units because you are forced to spam elite units as well. I always like to have realistic armies, with some basic units flavoured with some elites here and there.
    The worst spam I had was
    6 dragons
    6 sisters of avelorn
    And phoenix guard for the rest.

    Around turn 60 if you destroy the HE starting stack the AI keep sending them.
  • Ares354Ares354 Registered Users Posts: 3,553
    Main problem with this game is CA didint catch Lore well, how race fight, their strong point and weakness.

    Elite unit should be elite, like Chaosen, should be 40 to 50 man unit, Grail Knight 12-15 etc. Units like Gobos should be around 180-200 and so on.

    Doomstacks are thing because low tier units arent viable after 50-75 turn. But in lore, elites are few, cannot be mass, like in this game. State troops, or marauders or choas warrior should be core of any army, for entire campaign.

    Imho Third Age mod catch that well, elite units are very good, few, expensive, long time to recruit. Vanilla TWW dont have it. You can spam Demis with Empire after your city is big enough, and its just bad.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 13,338
    Ares354 said:

    Main problem with this game is CA didint catch Lore well, how race fight, their strong point and weakness.

    Elite unit should be elite, like Chaosen, should be 40 to 50 man unit, Grail Knight 12-15 etc. Units like Gobos should be around 180-200 and so on.

    Doomstacks are thing because low tier units arent viable after 50-75 turn. But in lore, elites are few, cannot be mass, like in this game. State troops, or marauders or choas warrior should be core of any army, for entire campaign.

    Imho Third Age mod catch that well, elite units are very good, few, expensive, long time to recruit. Vanilla TWW dont have it. You can spam Demis with Empire after your city is big enough, and its just bad.

    CA already fixed that problem with the manpower system in ToB. But then they removed it for 3K... hope it will come back in WH3. Especially with those existing TT rules and it’s point system, it’s just stupid that total war warhammer is just a stupid elite spam.... basic core units get useless after the first 20 turns.

    A major problem is also the horrible supply line mechanic which completely destroys the game. This forces the player and the AI to use less armies but with better troops. Removing it would make the game more realistic and probably solve the problem. Just look at TK or Bretonia AI armies which are mostly balanced.

    Skaven should play like a swarm race. More armies but mostly cheap units. Really hope that CA will fix this for the final game.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,015
    What, you don't find it fun fighting against five Phoenix Guard, five chariots, five LSG, and four Phoenix(Phoenii?) led by Tyrion??

    I can honestly say after the fifth time of fighting against precisely the same stack, I find it as fun as I ever have. Sometimes they even freshen it up by replacing Tyrion with Alastar.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • misterZmisterZ Registered Users Posts: 354
    Ares354 said:

    Main problem with this game is CA didint catch Lore well, how race fight, their strong point and weakness.

    Elite unit should be elite, like Chaosen, should be 40 to 50 man unit, Grail Knight 12-15 etc. Units like Gobos should be around 180-200 and so on.

    Doomstacks are thing because low tier units arent viable after 50-75 turn. But in lore, elites are few, cannot be mass, like in this game. State troops, or marauders or choas warrior should be core of any army, for entire campaign.

    Imho Third Age mod catch that well, elite units are very good, few, expensive, long time to recruit. Vanilla TWW dont have it. You can spam Demis with Empire after your city is big enough, and its just bad.

    It's not like in table top Clanrats was better then empire state troops... Gw don't know lore as well
  • LaindeshLaindesh Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,713
    ArneSo said:

    I‘m really tired of fighting HE super Doomstacks so I‘m looking for a nice unit Caps mod based on TT rules. I love to have balanced armies with only some elite units as a little extra. It’s just sad that all those basic frontline units just get worthless around turn 50...

    Which mod is the best to use here?

    Thanks in advance guys.

    another mod: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1723390103

    It's based on multiplayer balance rather than tabletop fluff
  • Jman5Jman5 Registered Users Posts: 833
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1723390103

    I think this is the best cap mod. It's a cost-based one like you have in custom/multiplayer battles. Player is capped at 18k, AI is capped at 23k.

    My favorite little feature about this mod is that values are labeled on the unit card. With so many units in Warhammer 2, it can be hard to know every unit for every faction. With this addition you can hover over a unit, look at its cost and immediately know where it ranks. This is something I desperately wish CA would roll into Vanilla because it would be incredibly helpful for newer players.
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,592
    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.



    I would still argue, they exist.

    ------Red Dox

  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 13,338
    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.

    What these few people object to is that on Legendary difficulty, the AI gets top tier armies relatively quickly (because ... you know ... the difficulty is 'legendary').

    This OP is the first poster to actively request a mod in order to make legendary easier ... some might think they could instead lower the game difficulty ... but I couldn't possibly comment.
    First, I never play on legendary only H - VH.

    The difficult level should not influence the quality of units, it should only affect how aggressive the AI is toward the player and how many Armies the AI can effort.

    So the difficult level doesn’t influence the units, only the number of armies.

    I don’t mind challenges, I actually like them. But fighting endless waves of unrealistic monster/elite spam armies simply isn’t fun. It’s just annoying. It’s annoying because it forces me to spam elite doomstacks as well.

    I prefer to use realistic armies. I love my basic core units like State Troops, Corsairs or simple spearmen. They are the bread and butter of every army. Elites should just be an extra on top.

    But right now I’m forced to spam elites as well to have a chance against the AI because basic troops don’t work.

    Using elite armies for me is immersion breaking. Spamming Phoenix Guards would be like spamming Pretorian Guards in Rome 2. Some people seem to like armies like this, but I don’t. I’m happy with 1-2 dragons in my Army, no need for more.
  • Frank9945671Frank9945671 Registered Users Posts: 175
    edited December 2019
    ArneSo said:


    First, I never play on legendary only H - VH.

    The difficult level should not influence the quality of units, it should only affect how aggressive the AI is toward the player and how many Armies the AI can effort.

    So the difficult level doesn’t influence the units, only the number of armies.

    I don’t mind challenges, I actually like them. But fighting endless waves of unrealistic monster/elite spam armies simply isn’t fun. It’s just annoying. It’s annoying because it forces me to spam elite doomstacks as well.

    I prefer to use realistic armies. I love my basic core units like State Troops, Corsairs or simple spearmen. They are the bread and butter of every army. Elites should just be an extra on top.

    But right now I’m forced to spam elites as well to have a chance against the AI because basic troops don’t work.

    Using elite armies for me is immersion breaking. Spamming Phoenix Guards would be like spamming Pretorian Guards in Rome 2. Some people seem to like armies like this, but I don’t. I’m happy with 1-2 dragons in my Army, no need for more.

    Sounds like you never played TW game as well. In late game you must use high tier units in every TW game, you know? Also, no one forcing you to make 20 dragons amry or what are you trying to say... Also, 5-6 phoenix guards is not a doomstack. You guys already done enough and now we have totally passive and useless VC factions. And whats the point? You want to play legendary, but you cannot because of buffs for AI or what? That's really weird, just go to normal. You want to spam by tier1 units in late game, but you cannot, because TW games are not about that, they never was and now you complain. So, yeah, maybe CA should release some unit caps option for campaign as well, which may works like TK's recruitment system, but forcing everyone to use tier1 trash till end of the game just stupid.

    "I’m happy with 1-2 dragons" - and why you can't use just 2 dragons per army? Dude, I played over 3k hours in TWW and I never had more than 4 dragons in army and that was really rare thing for me(maybe one army in entire campaign), because armies should be balanced you know and on VH\Legendary you don't have enought money to make 20 dragons army and if you will do that you gonna lose, because you can't fight everyone with just one ridiculously army. I guess many of you never played 400-500 turns campaign and you just spamming with that mysterious "doomstacks" problem which not exist in TW. Also, screenshots of RedDox are not a doomstacks examples, you know? That's just kind of fine late game army and you can win this on VH battles, especially against AI. Or you wanna fight just against tier1 spearmen for centuries?
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 13,338

    ArneSo said:


    First, I never play on legendary only H - VH.

    The difficult level should not influence the quality of units, it should only affect how aggressive the AI is toward the player and how many Armies the AI can effort.

    So the difficult level doesn’t influence the units, only the number of armies.

    I don’t mind challenges, I actually like them. But fighting endless waves of unrealistic monster/elite spam armies simply isn’t fun. It’s just annoying. It’s annoying because it forces me to spam elite doomstacks as well.

    I prefer to use realistic armies. I love my basic core units like State Troops, Corsairs or simple spearmen. They are the bread and butter of every army. Elites should just be an extra on top.

    But right now I’m forced to spam elites as well to have a chance against the AI because basic troops don’t work.

    Using elite armies for me is immersion breaking. Spamming Phoenix Guards would be like spamming Pretorian Guards in Rome 2. Some people seem to like armies like this, but I don’t. I’m happy with 1-2 dragons in my Army, no need for more.

    Sounds like you never played TW game as well. In late game you must use high tier units in every TW game, you know? Also, no one forcing you to make 20 dragons amry or what are you trying to say... Also, 5-6 phoenix guards is not a doomstack. You guys already done enough and now we have totally passive and useless VC factions. And whats the point? You want to play legendary, but you cannot because of buffs for AI or what? That's really weird, just go to normal. You want to spam by tier1 units in late game, but you cannot, because TW games are not about that, they never was and now you complain. So, yeah, maybe CA should release some unit caps option for campaign as well, which may works like TK's recruitment system, but forcing everyone to use tier1 trash till end of the game just stupid.

    "I’m happy with 1-2 dragons" - and why you can't use just 2 dragons per army? Dude, I played over 3k hours in TWW and I never had more than 4 dragons in army and that was really rare thing for me(maybe one army in entire campaign), because armies should be balanced you know and on VH\Legendary you don't have enought money to make 20 dragons army and if you will do that you gonna lose, because you can't fight everyone with just one ridiculously army.
    I played everything since Rome 1. 😂

    Not really in Rome 2, Attila and especially in ToB or 3K you can still use realistic armies.

    In Rome 2 for example normal Hoplites or standard Legionaries were useful for the whole campaign.

    I don’t talk about forcing everyone to use tier 1 trash. But the AI used only elite armies from turn 50 so the player needs to do the same to have a chance.
  • Frank9945671Frank9945671 Registered Users Posts: 175
    ArneSo said:


    In Rome 2 for example normal Hoplites or standard Legionaries were useful for the whole campaign.

    They are absolute garbage, man. If you using them as main force in late game that means something wrong, you know? Also, AI in Rome 2 stupid as brick. When I played some sieges in Rome2, AI just tried to take victory point and fully ignore player troops. So, probably, not good example.
    I prefer Medieval 2
    . Anyway, this game have a lot of real problems and this "doomstacks" myths not in the list.
  • Jman5Jman5 Registered Users Posts: 833
    HoneyBun said:

    Red_Dox said:

    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.



    I would still argue, they exist.

    ------Red Dox

    And you'd lose.

    We've been over this, a lot.

    Those are elite end game stacks. But they're not 'doomstacks' and, despite the OP, the AI isn't spamming them on turn 20.

    This is TW. By end game both AI and player are going to be using top tier troops. Having 5 tier 2 units at the relevant part of a campaign in a stack is not 'spamming'. Having 5 of the same tier 5 units in an end game stack at the end is not 'spamming'.

    The concept of 'doomstacks' was invented on this forum as a piece of forum-hyperbole. You are better than this, you know that by the time the player is facing a stack like that, the player's stack is more likely to count as a 'doomstack' than any created by the AI.

    Artificially forcing the use of tier 1 units in late game is a fantasy desired by only a handful. Those who wish it can achieve it by mods.

    The *better* argument is to criticise supply lines or the 20 unit limit applying universally to *all* races. But trying to prove 'doomstacks' is a lost cause.
    You have done this repeatedly, but please stop insisting that your viewpoint is the majority view when you have absolutely no evidence this is the case. It's a fallacious argument. (ex: I and most people think X is true and only people on the fringe think Y). Have you done robust community polling? If not then speak for yourself and don't pretend the rest of the community agrees with you.

    Also where did "we" go over this and decide what a doomstack is? While this forum has had plenty of discussions on doomstacks, I've never seen the definition clearly laid out. I even asked for people's opinion on what constitutes a doomstack back in September, but only got 1 brief reply.

    You seem to be trying to make some sort of subtle distinction between "doomstacks" and "endgame stacks" that seems pointlessly arbitrary to me. I would argue that the easiest way to define a "doomstack" is a single army that has a base value over a certain amount (based on custom battle values). The "well roundedness" of an army does not preclude it from being a doomstack. If anything, that would make it even more powerful than a single unit type army.
    The concept of 'doomstacks' was invented on this forum as a piece of forum-hyperbole. You are better than this, you know that by the time the player is facing a stack like that, the player's stack is more likely to count as a 'doomstack' than any created by the AI.

    I can't speak to its point of origin. Total War series is an old series afterall. However I have seen doomstack in other games like Starcraft to refer to single powerful armies. In that case it wasn't so much about using a single expensive unit type, but a small core of unit types with heavy reliance on some of the more expensive types. This is why I think army value should be the main defining factor of a doomstack rather than the diversity of units.
    Artificially forcing the use of tier 1 units in late game is a fantasy desired by only a handful. Those who wish it can achieve it by mods.

    This game is full of "artificial" rules that force player choice. 20 unit army limits is an artificial restriction. 40 units on the field at any one time is an artificial restriction. Unit costs is an artificial restriction. The tech progression system is an artificial restriction. I could just as easily argue that having to "tech up" to unlock units is an arbitrary restriction.

    So I don't know how you can be for any of these artificial rules, but against anything more. If you truly wanted to optimize "player choice" you would make units free, all units available on turn 1, and army sizes as big as you want. If you're not in favor of all of this than you are in favor of restricting player choice for the sake of fun/balance.

    So here is what I think. I think the best total war game would be one that provides important roles for all unit types at all points in the game. I think a tier 1 unit should have some value in the late game. I think making the game nothing but a progression system where 2/3 of a unit roster are rendered obsolete by turn 50 is a tragedy for a strategy game. There are so many cool tier 1-3 units. It's a shame that you have to actively weaken yourself to use them.

    You seem to view having to use tier 1 units in the late game as some sort of punishment. I see it as a triumph for player choice, army diversity, and strategy.
  • HarconnHarconn Registered Users Posts: 937
    AI really should balance its armies. Balance means on the one hand a comprehensible mix of melee/ranged/cav/monsters/arty units but on the other hand also: 70-80% CORE RACE UNITS (even in late-game).

    Really, I could puke (and sometimes I quit campaign out of rage) when I see those totally unbalanced, crazy AI armies IN MASSES. It is not only a HE problem, but I will use them as example: It is neither fun to fight (repeatedly) against armies with 5 dragons / 5 units of swordmasters nor does it make any sense. An army (even an elite one) consists of 70% core units (archers, spearmen, silver helmets). Futhermore it's unloreful. Dragons/SM are rare units, they don't come in masses. I have no problems if human players can create their armies like they prefer them. But AI armies should be balanced. I like to play my campaign respecting tabletop rules / lore, but even before turn 100 I can't build loreful armies anymore, because all AI factions are goin crazy, building doomstack armies. It's a real problem and (with the meanwhile solved turn times) the reason I quit campaign play.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

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  • NyumusNyumus Registered Users Posts: 219
    Red_Dox said:

    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.



    I would still argue, they exist.

    ------Red Dox

    Those are not doomstacks. Come on guys, this again??
    A doomstacks is a Stack of only really powerfull units, stacked over and over without variation. Ex: Noctilus like tô have an 16 Necroflex Colossus army, himself and 3 heroes (this happened in some of my games). THIS os a doomstack.

    Those screenshots are late game stacks, and honestly? A group of T2 - T3 DE with Darkshards with Shields, a good lord (that buffs your troops) a Spellcaster, and some Leveled folder, you could totally took those on and win (I have done It myself, I guarantee myself as a DE and a TK player).

    Now, If you want to have a Low qualitaty troops for the AI, Just use mods. But stop spreading missinformation about what is or not a doomstack.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 13,338
    Nyumus said:

    Red_Dox said:

    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.



    I would still argue, they exist.

    ------Red Dox

    Those are not doomstacks. Come on guys, this again??
    A doomstacks is a Stack of only really powerfull units, stacked over and over without variation. Ex: Noctilus like tô have an 16 Necroflex Colossus army, himself and 3 heroes (this happened in some of my games). THIS os a doomstack.

    Those screenshots are late game stacks, and honestly? A group of T2 - T3 DE with Darkshards with Shields, a good lord (that buffs your troops) a Spellcaster, and some Leveled folder, you could totally took those on and win (I have done It myself, I guarantee myself as a DE and a TK player).

    Now, If you want to have a Low qualitaty troops for the AI, Just use mods. But stop spreading missinformation about what is or not a doomstack.
    No those are definitely doomstacks. They are unbalanced and just ridiculously annoying. Just look at the HE army. All these units are super elite... to win against such an army you need to use elite only armies as well. So units like Corsairs or normal state troops get useless.

    Late game armies should still be realistic armies. More rare and elite units, but the core should remain basic troops.

  • sk00ba5t3v3sk00ba5t3v3 Registered Users Posts: 14
    Those are not doomstacks.
  • vova514vova514 Registered Users Posts: 31
    I never noticed it before,but i am having a first campaign with Dark Elves and doomstacks are definitely a thing.
    The high elves armies are entirely composed of phoenix guard ,swordmasters ,sisters, dragon princes and dragons(occasionally phoneixes).if those are not doomstacks ,i dont know what are.
    playing on normal by the way.
  • Frank9945671Frank9945671 Registered Users Posts: 175
    vova514 said:

    I never noticed it before,but i am having a first campaign with Dark Elves and doomstacks are definitely a thing.
    The high elves armies are entirely composed of phoenix guard ,swordmasters ,sisters, dragon princes and dragons(occasionally phoneixes).if those are not doomstacks ,i dont know what are.
    playing on normal by the way.

    Oookay.. Another point of view... I played some legendary Morathi ME campaign with vh battles few days ago and saw some well mixed HE stacks of phoenix guards, sisters, swordmasters, phoenixes, etc and you know what? This is fine, I'm glad AI can recruit something to face a player. That was really interesting experience. Battles was hard and really fun and yes, I took Ulthuan under mine control in the end. Not a big deal. After that I met 64 settlements Empire abomination at turn 146 and this is not fine.
  • Madscientist16180Madscientist16180 Registered Users Posts: 4
    Nyumus said:

    Red_Dox said:

    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.



    I would still argue, they exist.

    ------Red Dox

    Those are not doomstacks. Come on guys, this again??
    A doomstacks is a Stack of only really powerfull units, stacked over and over without variation. Ex: Noctilus like tô have an 16 Necroflex Colossus army, himself and 3 heroes (this happened in some of my games). THIS os a doomstack.

    Those screenshots are late game stacks, and honestly? A group of T2 - T3 DE with Darkshards with Shields, a good lord (that buffs your troops) a Spellcaster, and some Leveled folder, you could totally took those on and win (I have done It myself, I guarantee myself as a DE and a TK player).

    Now, If you want to have a Low qualitaty troops for the AI, Just use mods. But stop spreading missinformation about what is or not a doomstack.
    I'm of the same mind as you.
    While those are powerful stacks, they are in no way unbeatable for a "lesser tiered" army that is used to full efficiency.
    I play mostly DE myself, and my darkshards with shields stay relevant for a very long time, still use them in the late game. Fielding low tier army allows to field more, which can easily outset the fact that AI send "doomstacks" after the player. Maybe the supply line mechanics could be reviewed in that regard, so that fielding low tier units truly give you a good advantage on numbers. But that is as far as i'd go, "Mayby the supply..."
  • vova514vova514 Registered Users Posts: 31

    vova514 said:

    I never noticed it before,but i am having a first campaign with Dark Elves and doomstacks are definitely a thing.
    The high elves armies are entirely composed of phoenix guard ,swordmasters ,sisters, dragon princes and dragons(occasionally phoneixes).if those are not doomstacks ,i dont know what are.
    playing on normal by the way.

    Oookay.. Another point of view... I played some legendary Morathi ME campaign with vh battles few days ago and saw some well mixed HE stacks of phoenix guards, sisters, swordmasters, phoenixes, etc and you know what? This is fine, I'm glad AI can recruit something to face a player. That was really interesting experience. Battles was hard and really fun and yes, I took Ulthuan under mine control in the end. Not a big deal. After that I met 64 settlements Empire abomination at turn 146 and this is not fine.
    it's not fun when all enemy armies are all the same.it forces me to build the same army for each lord myself.and yes darkshards are pretty good even in late game,but what about corsairs?witch elves?they get slaughtered by swordmasters and friends ,and i would like to face armies where these units are relevant too
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,262
    edited December 2019
    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.

    What these few people object to is that on Legendary difficulty, the AI gets top tier armies relatively quickly (because ... you know ... the difficulty is 'legendary').

    This OP is the first poster to actively request a mod in order to make legendary easier ... some might think they could instead lower the game difficulty ... but I couldn't possibly comment.

    I play on Hard campaign difficulty most of the time and I see stacks like that starting around turn 60 or so all the time.

    I play this game frequently and intensively. Doomstacks are most certainly a thing.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,262
    Also doom stacks are not just "19 dragons"...

    When the AI can produce troops like in half the time you can with regularity - that's a doom stack. Facing armies of the same 2-3 units of t4/5 stuff when you're limited to t3 or maybe a SINGLE army of higher tier stuff to the enemy's 4 of them... that's still a doom stack. I sure as hell can't pump armies like that by turn 50. Well, unless I'm playing Dwarfs.
  • NyumusNyumus Registered Users Posts: 219
    ArneSo said:

    Nyumus said:

    Red_Dox said:

    HoneyBun said:

    Masarius said:

    May you post a screenshot of doomstacks, because I barely see any in my plays.

    Usually the armies are a solid mix.

    We've had this debate, 'doomstacks' are a myth.



    I would still argue, they exist.

    ------Red Dox

    Those are not doomstacks. Come on guys, this again??
    A doomstacks is a Stack of only really powerfull units, stacked over and over without variation. Ex: Noctilus like tô have an 16 Necroflex Colossus army, himself and 3 heroes (this happened in some of my games). THIS os a doomstack.

    Those screenshots are late game stacks, and honestly? A group of T2 - T3 DE with Darkshards with Shields, a good lord (that buffs your troops) a Spellcaster, and some Leveled folder, you could totally took those on and win (I have done It myself, I guarantee myself as a DE and a TK player).

    Now, If you want to have a Low qualitaty troops for the AI, Just use mods. But stop spreading missinformation about what is or not a doomstack.
    No those are definitely doomstacks. They are unbalanced and just ridiculously annoying. Just look at the HE army. All these units are super elite... to win against such an army you need to use elite only armies as well. So units like Corsairs or normal state troops get useless.

    Late game armies should still be realistic armies. More rare and elite units, but the core should remain basic troops.

    No, they are not.
    How are they unbalenced? Lets look até the First army of that picture:
    -They have Anti-Large (PG), Anti-Infantry (Swordmasters), Archers (SoA), Cavalry (DP) and some aerial supremacy to make over the lack of cavalry. The only thing they lack trully is a Spellcaster.
    Só what, because they are all high tier units, this is now a doomstack? Stop It. It is an Elite Stack, not a doomstack. Start learning the difference there guys.
    Also, by turn 50-60 the player should be more than able to create the same kind of army.
    And the only reason the AI get só many armies os because of the bonuses they recieve tô economy on higher difficulties. So If you guys don't like them, 2 options:
    -Mod It out.
    -Reduce the difficulty (I never get It why people got hurt when someone say to them to play on lower difficulties).
    Otherwise, stop crying saying It is a bad thing and spreading the missinformation, because again, those are NOT DOOMSTACKS.
  • NyumusNyumus Registered Users Posts: 219
    Itharus said:

    Also doom stacks are not just "19 dragons"...

    When the AI can produce troops like in half the time you can with regularity - that's a doom stack. Facing armies of the same 2-3 units of t4/5 stuff when you're limited to t3 or maybe a SINGLE army of higher tier stuff to the enemy's 4 of them... that's still a doom stack. I sure as hell can't pump armies like that by turn 50. Well, unless I'm playing Dwarfs.

    Then maybe It is a user problem. Because I can pump out armies like that by turn 50-60, and the player doesn't need multiple armies because we think better than the AI. Like I said before, they pump lots of armies because they got economy buffs (upkeep and recruit cost reduction) the higher the difficulty, higher the buff.
    You find It hard to play like that? Reduce difficulty and move on. There is no Shame in that, the important is having Fun after all.
    But stop saying that balanced high tier armies are doomstacks, because they até not. They are what makes the late game challenging tô the player. A **** 10 Mammoth, 8 Chariots + Lord + Mage is a doomstack. The rogue armies half Forest Dragon, half treeman is a doomstack. The Lizardmen Rite tô summon am entire army of Dinos is a doomstack.
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