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That is what happens to factions with very limited support options and 2 useless heroes.
Mediocre faction tbh, u would expect them to be somewhat upper middle. Gotten significantly worse after the massive wrath rune nerf into some stupid slow rune, then add in the longbeards and miners nerfs. If thats not enough they hit it with missile cap as well lol, the only other faction other than liz that actually gotten worse as time passes. I mean factions improve over time, dwfs goes the opposite lol...
Thane use to have ld and att aura, it was a really nice trio with thorgrim. Pretty much the only golden age era where u see thorgrim in the field. Heck even the old steam gyro r stronger, skolder guards r so viable before as well. This faction just keeps getting worse dunno wth CAs doing with them.
Charge and flame items for 2 years going into 3 yrs for thane, would seriously love a Ducks response on the design perspective of it. Charge and flame rofl, and no, they arent joking somehow some member of the dev team deem it soooo appropriate, so much so they remove a ld and att aura in favor of it.
U do know $ is NOT us dollars right, nor does it ever represent ANY currency? u a primary school drop out or something? prolly also not advance enough to know its a string symbol for programmers
nope you're totally wrong, not surprising from you since you're wrong so often though.
To be honest it was a pretty useless post from your side, most people know exactly what he meant.
Lets not completely deviate from the point he's making here.
Namely that the runelord without abilities is overpriced.
The runesmith isn't much better of costing 50 more then a thane naked for less stats and no one ever brings a thane as a serious option.
Dwarf Lords and Heroes have had the issues for a long time. And the problem comes down to that the runelord/smith is the only one with usable battlefield utility. And even then only two of the three are even useful since armour is just hard countered by AP anyway and if your opponent doesn't bring that he misspicked.
U do know $ is NOT us dollars right, nor does it ever represent ANY currency? u a primary school drop out or something? prolly also not advance enough to know its a string symbol for programmers
nope you're totally wrong, not surprising from you since you're wrong so often though.
To be honest it was a pretty useless post from your side, most people know exactly what he meant.
When he cant win he just find the most pointless thing to argue about
How about we change the Master Rune of Wrath to inflict Rampage? I think then it will serve its purpose in terms of anti-chariot play and it'll be even better at drawing large units into slayers without the boring 'net and trollhammer' killbutton effect (which isn't OP IMO, just distasteful and boring). Seems more thematic too than a slow, which to me really doesn't make any sense mechanistically. It should be short duration though to avoid it forcing a caster lord or missile unit into instant death in melee.
Then make a separate Rune of Ruin: functions like one of Mazdamundi's Ruination of Cities beams emanating straight out from the rune caster in a chosen direction.
Rune of Fortification: gives a unit charge defence vs. all and 100% knockback resistance.
Rune of Wind: functions like a larger windblast emanating from the caster that deals no damage but knocks over all infantry and staggers all larger units.
I think these are much more fun and dynamic ways to address the dwarf mobility/chariot issue than nets and slows.
I like all your creative ideas.
but do you really really think the ranged killer units of dwarfs and Skaven are so different in power that one faction is fine with tons of nets and slows and the other somehow merits this constant withering complaining about one 30s slow? Honestly a unit of miners is also a 30s slow and often a more useful one.
The double standards just blow my mind. Constantly.
If you check my posts, you'll see I'm against any and all nets and many slows, not just the Dwarf one. They're lazy gameplay design. I also consider Skaven top tier and was against their extra slows and nets from this patch and the one before it. However, none of that has any bearing on the discussion for Dwarfs, so accusing me of double standards is just a personal attack that avoids the arguments.
It should also be said that comparing runelords utility to other lords that cost 1000-2000 gold more and are in completely different rosters is not quite right.
So base Runelords costs about 850 gold and fully kitted one costs about 2400 gold. Base Supreme Sorceress Lord costs 450. Base Goblin Great Shaman cost 300. Teclis with just Regrowth, Net, Potion and Arcane Conduit costs 1188.
So which Lords are you talking about that cost 1850-2850 base and 3400-4400 fully kitted are being compared to Runelord? Or just because Runelord is often taken naked with Rune of Wrath that costs about 1k in total - because other abilities are waste of gold - you thought he is cheap?
Likewise base Runesmith with just the Rune of Wrath costs 630 while for 492 gold you can grab a Life Wizard with Regrowth to heal your Karl Franz or another single entity to generate tremendous value.
You do know that with the price difference compared to sorceress you get: +396 HP (roughly 13% more) +110 armor (!) +1 MA +10 MD + 55 WS
Compared to Goblin Great Shaman +495 HP +95 armor +20 LD +16 MA +14 MD +60 WS
Bottom line, i don't think they are fully comparable and Runelord should indeed be more expensive than these in regards to their significantly better stats.
Wether or not they need a price decrease i'll leave unsaid, but i think this should be noted.
How about we change the Master Rune of Wrath to inflict Rampage? I think then it will serve its purpose in terms of anti-chariot play and it'll be even better at drawing large units into slayers without the boring 'net and trollhammer' killbutton effect (which isn't OP IMO, just distasteful and boring). Seems more thematic too than a slow, which to me really doesn't make any sense mechanistically. It should be short duration though to avoid it forcing a caster lord or missile unit into instant death in melee.
Then make a separate Rune of Ruin: functions like one of Mazdamundi's Ruination of Cities beams emanating straight out from the rune caster in a chosen direction.
Rune of Fortification: gives a unit charge defence vs. all and 100% knockback resistance.
Rune of Wind: functions like a larger windblast emanating from the caster that deals no damage but knocks over all infantry and staggers all larger units.
I think these are much more fun and dynamic ways to address the dwarf mobility/chariot issue than nets and slows.
I like all your creative ideas.
but do you really really think the ranged killer units of dwarfs and Skaven are so different in power that one faction is fine with tons of nets and slows and the other somehow merits this constant withering complaining about one 30s slow? Honestly a unit of miners is also a 30s slow and often a more useful one.
The double standards just blow my mind. Constantly.
If you check my posts, you'll see I'm against any and all nets and many slows, not just the Dwarf one. They're lazy gameplay design. I also consider Skaven top tier and was against their extra slows and nets from this patch and the one before it. However, none of that has any bearing on the discussion for Dwarfs, so accusing me of double standards is just a personal attack that avoids the arguments.
It should also be said that comparing runelords utility to other lords that cost 1000-2000 gold more and are in completely different rosters is not quite right.
So base Runelords costs about 850 gold and fully kitted one costs about 2400 gold. Base Supreme Sorceress Lord costs 450. Base Goblin Great Shaman cost 300. Teclis with just Regrowth, Net, Potion and Arcane Conduit costs 1188.
So which Lords are you talking about that cost 1850-2850 base and 3400-4400 fully kitted are being compared to Runelord? Or just because Runelord is often taken naked with Rune of Wrath that costs about 1k in total - because other abilities are waste of gold - you thought he is cheap?
Likewise base Runesmith with just the Rune of Wrath costs 630 while for 492 gold you can grab a Life Wizard with Regrowth to heal your Karl Franz or another single entity to generate tremendous value.
You do know that with the price difference compared to sorceress you get: +396 HP (roughly 13% more) +110 armor (!) +1 MA +10 MD + 55 WS
Compared to Goblin Great Shaman +495 HP +95 armor +20 LD +16 MA +14 MD +60 WS
Bottom line, i don't think they are fully comparable and Runelord should indeed be more expensive than these in regards to their significantly better stats.
Wether or not they need a price decrease i'll leave unsaid, but i think this should be noted.
I believe the pretty clear reference point of the dwarf thane has already been demonstrated.
Basically that should be the peg and the his item should cost what they’re worth. But ca doesn’t work that way.
How about we change the Master Rune of Wrath to inflict Rampage? I think then it will serve its purpose in terms of anti-chariot play and it'll be even better at drawing large units into slayers without the boring 'net and trollhammer' killbutton effect (which isn't OP IMO, just distasteful and boring). Seems more thematic too than a slow, which to me really doesn't make any sense mechanistically. It should be short duration though to avoid it forcing a caster lord or missile unit into instant death in melee.
Then make a separate Rune of Ruin: functions like one of Mazdamundi's Ruination of Cities beams emanating straight out from the rune caster in a chosen direction.
Rune of Fortification: gives a unit charge defence vs. all and 100% knockback resistance.
Rune of Wind: functions like a larger windblast emanating from the caster that deals no damage but knocks over all infantry and staggers all larger units.
I think these are much more fun and dynamic ways to address the dwarf mobility/chariot issue than nets and slows.
I like all your creative ideas.
but do you really really think the ranged killer units of dwarfs and Skaven are so different in power that one faction is fine with tons of nets and slows and the other somehow merits this constant withering complaining about one 30s slow? Honestly a unit of miners is also a 30s slow and often a more useful one.
The double standards just blow my mind. Constantly.
If you check my posts, you'll see I'm against any and all nets and many slows, not just the Dwarf one. They're lazy gameplay design. I also consider Skaven top tier and was against their extra slows and nets from this patch and the one before it. However, none of that has any bearing on the discussion for Dwarfs, so accusing me of double standards is just a personal attack that avoids the arguments.
It should also be said that comparing runelords utility to other lords that cost 1000-2000 gold more and are in completely different rosters is not quite right.
So base Runelords costs about 850 gold and fully kitted one costs about 2400 gold. Base Supreme Sorceress Lord costs 450. Base Goblin Great Shaman cost 300. Teclis with just Regrowth, Net, Potion and Arcane Conduit costs 1188.
So which Lords are you talking about that cost 1850-2850 base and 3400-4400 fully kitted are being compared to Runelord? Or just because Runelord is often taken naked with Rune of Wrath that costs about 1k in total - because other abilities are waste of gold - you thought he is cheap?
Likewise base Runesmith with just the Rune of Wrath costs 630 while for 492 gold you can grab a Life Wizard with Regrowth to heal your Karl Franz or another single entity to generate tremendous value.
You do know that with the price difference compared to sorceress you get: +396 HP (roughly 13% more) +110 armor (!) +1 MA +10 MD + 55 WS
Compared to Goblin Great Shaman +495 HP +95 armor +20 LD +16 MA +14 MD +60 WS
Bottom line, i don't think they are fully comparable and Runelord should indeed be more expensive than these in regards to their significantly better stats.
Wether or not they need a price decrease i'll leave unsaid, but i think this should be noted.
Archlektor 550g Runelord 850g
+210 hp +25 armour +1 speed (?) +10 MA
-15 MD -40 WS -10 CB
300 Gold difference that's the rune premium.
Any of the above are still cheaper when put on a horse, but their utility and survivability go up x2.
U do know $ is NOT us dollars right, nor does it ever represent ANY currency? u a primary school drop out or something? prolly also not advance enough to know its a string symbol for programmers
nope you're totally wrong, not surprising from you since you're wrong so often though.
To be honest it was a pretty useless post from your side, most people know exactly what he meant.
It was actually a nice joke, i admit i cracked up a bit, then cracked further after reading the answer to his post
Now lads stop eating each other and let's not derail.
How about we change the Master Rune of Wrath to inflict Rampage? I think then it will serve its purpose in terms of anti-chariot play and it'll be even better at drawing large units into slayers without the boring 'net and trollhammer' killbutton effect (which isn't OP IMO, just distasteful and boring). Seems more thematic too than a slow, which to me really doesn't make any sense mechanistically. It should be short duration though to avoid it forcing a caster lord or missile unit into instant death in melee.
Then make a separate Rune of Ruin: functions like one of Mazdamundi's Ruination of Cities beams emanating straight out from the rune caster in a chosen direction.
Rune of Fortification: gives a unit charge defence vs. all and 100% knockback resistance.
Rune of Wind: functions like a larger windblast emanating from the caster that deals no damage but knocks over all infantry and staggers all larger units.
I think these are much more fun and dynamic ways to address the dwarf mobility/chariot issue than nets and slows.
I like all your creative ideas.
but do you really really think the ranged killer units of dwarfs and Skaven are so different in power that one faction is fine with tons of nets and slows and the other somehow merits this constant withering complaining about one 30s slow? Honestly a unit of miners is also a 30s slow and often a more useful one.
The double standards just blow my mind. Constantly.
If you check my posts, you'll see I'm against any and all nets and many slows, not just the Dwarf one. They're lazy gameplay design. I also consider Skaven top tier and was against their extra slows and nets from this patch and the one before it. However, none of that has any bearing on the discussion for Dwarfs, so accusing me of double standards is just a personal attack that avoids the arguments.
It should also be said that comparing runelords utility to other lords that cost 1000-2000 gold more and are in completely different rosters is not quite right.
So base Runelords costs about 850 gold and fully kitted one costs about 2400 gold. Base Supreme Sorceress Lord costs 450. Base Goblin Great Shaman cost 300. Teclis with just Regrowth, Net, Potion and Arcane Conduit costs 1188.
So which Lords are you talking about that cost 1850-2850 base and 3400-4400 fully kitted are being compared to Runelord? Or just because Runelord is often taken naked with Rune of Wrath that costs about 1k in total - because other abilities are waste of gold - you thought he is cheap?
Likewise base Runesmith with just the Rune of Wrath costs 630 while for 492 gold you can grab a Life Wizard with Regrowth to heal your Karl Franz or another single entity to generate tremendous value.
You do know that with the price difference compared to sorceress you get: +396 HP (roughly 13% more) +110 armor (!) +1 MA +10 MD + 55 WS
Compared to Goblin Great Shaman +495 HP +95 armor +20 LD +16 MA +14 MD +60 WS
Bottom line, i don't think they are fully comparable and Runelord should indeed be more expensive than these in regards to their significantly better stats.
Wether or not they need a price decrease i'll leave unsaid, but i think this should be noted.
You also know that all other characters can be put on a mount which gives them ton of advantages. Runelord is still the slowest of them and he's not a melee fighter, just a beatstick.
Comments
Thane use to have ld and att aura, it was a really nice trio with thorgrim. Pretty much the only golden age era where u see thorgrim in the field. Heck even the old steam gyro r stronger, skolder guards r so viable before as well. This faction just keeps getting worse dunno wth CAs doing with them.
Charge and flame items for 2 years going into 3 yrs for thane, would seriously love a Ducks response on the design perspective of it. Charge and flame rofl, and no, they arent joking somehow some member of the dev team deem it soooo appropriate, so much so they remove a ld and att aura in favor of it.
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- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
3 · Disagree AgreeNamely that the runelord without abilities is overpriced.
The runesmith isn't much better of costing 50 more then a thane naked for less stats and no one ever brings a thane as a serious option.
Dwarf Lords and Heroes have had the issues for a long time. And the problem comes down to that the runelord/smith is the only one with usable battlefield utility. And even then only two of the three are even useful since armour is just hard countered by AP anyway and if your opponent doesn't bring that he misspicked.
- Report
3 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree+396 HP (roughly 13% more)
+110 armor (!)
+1 MA
+10 MD
+ 55 WS
Compared to Goblin Great Shaman
+495 HP
+95 armor
+20 LD
+16 MA
+14 MD
+60 WS
Bottom line, i don't think they are fully comparable and Runelord should indeed be more expensive than these in regards to their significantly better stats.
Wether or not they need a price decrease i'll leave unsaid, but i think this should be noted.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeBasically that should be the peg and the his item should cost what they’re worth. But ca doesn’t work that way.
- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeRunelord 850g
+210 hp
+25 armour
+1 speed (?)
+10 MA
-15 MD
-40 WS
-10 CB
300 Gold difference that's the rune premium.
Any of the above are still cheaper when put on a horse, but their utility and survivability go up x2.
- Report
3 · Disagree AgreeNow lads stop eating each other and let's not derail. You also know that all other characters can be put on a mount which gives them ton of advantages. Runelord is still the slowest of them and he's not a melee fighter, just a beatstick.
- Report
0 · Disagree Agree