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A Prediction about Future Content for WH1/WH2 races

TheWattmanTheWattman Junior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 476
Hello everyone! I previously did a speculation thread about the remaining content for WH2, but I realized along the way that I had made some errors and thinking down the wrong paths. After having re-examined the state of Total War Warhammer, I have come up with a new projection. In this thread I will dicuss what I think will be the ultimate future for all the WH1 and WH2 races, not including Chaos, once all updates and DLCs have been ironed out. I will be focusing mainly on the factions, lords, units and starting positions left to add and not trying to predict any new mechanics, since that is not really my field. I welcome any thoughts you guys might have on that or what other DLCs you have in mind for the remainder of WH2!


The pattern of updates and DLCs over the last 2 years has been 3 updates, accompanied by a DLC, per year. For 2018, that was the Tomb Kings, Alarielle/Hellebron and Vampire Coast DLCs. For 2019, that was Tehenhauin/Ikit Claw, Wulfhart/Nakai and Darkblade/Snikch. Now, according to the Steam Database as of January 2020, there are 2 unknown DLCs lying in wait for WH2. This leaves me to conclude that we're gonna be getting 2 more DLCs for Warhammer 2, probably around April-May and then September and after that will be the grand release of WH3 around Christmas/Festag 2020. So without further adue, here is my take on what those 2 finishing DLCs will be:

DLC 1 - The Warden & the Warboss


April/May 2020 - Describtion:
The commonly agreed upon DLC. That doesn't mean its gonna be any less awesome. Its the Greenskins update everyone, except me who don't play them lol, has been waiting for. As I said Im not gonna try to predict any new GS mechanics, but I can give you a prediction on the setting. Yvresse is going to get invaded from 3 directions. Grom is gonna start either in the northeastern islands in a direct threat against the capital or in the Badlands to the south. Add to that is the threat from the southwest by Aranessa Saltspite. And from the far west, comes Eltharion himself. Yes, I don't think Eltharion starting in control of all or even parts of Yvresse is going to work very well. Therefore, I have placed him in the High Elf colony of Arnheim in Naggaroth. Your objective as Eltharion will be to secure your immediate surroundings around Arnheim, which will be tough work indeed with Morathi directly to your west. Once she is vanquished, hopefully before she calls upon Malekith to help, must be to race east back to your homelands to save it from pirates and finally Grom. So starting as Eltharion, you are going to have to cut through Morathi and possibly Tretch Craventail, then race across the ocean, either dodging or engaging Count Noctilus along the way, to then break through the Sartosan blockade and finally square off with Grom.

As for the FLC I see two possiblities, either Imrik of Caledor or one of Kouran Darkhand or Tullaris Dreadbringer. For the Dark Elves, I see it mainly as an oppertunity to smash in a 6th lord to complete their roster. I will go further into my reasoning there when I cover the future of the Dark Elves here, but in short, the Dark Elves are very done in their unit roster, there's no more material for DLCs. For Imrik, its mainly because he's a fan-favourite and so we maybe could bring in one or two Caledor-themed units. Then again, Caledor itself is not the greatest of start positions and its not my preferred choice for the 6th HE lord. More on that when I cover the future of the High Elves in more detail.

DLC 2 - The Butcher & the Bold


September 2020 - Describtion:
This DLC is far less clear cut than the previous one. My reasoning on this one is basically "to get stuff out of the way before WH3". Consider this: the Greenskins need an update, which will come with the previous DLC. What other races need updates and/or are not a part of WH2 yet? My answer is Wood Elves, Beastmen and to some extent Dwarfs, Empire and Norsca. Now the devs have said that WH3 will be "Total Chaos", so probably a heavy emphasis, as it should, on the various vessels of Chaos. To me, that's a good reason to to hold off on the Beastmen update until WH3, so they can roar into an environment they thrive in. As for the Dwarfs, WH2's vortex is not ideal for any Dwarf start tbh and the missing Dwarf characters have absolutely ZERO connection to the new world, so they will have to sit WH2 out. That leaves Wood Elves, Empire and Norsca. And consider, how well do the Wood Elves fit into the Dark Lands of WH3? Hardly at all, therefore it would be ideal to do their overhaul before WH3 launches.

Coupled with the overhaul, Araloth, Champion of Queen Ariel, will lead the Wood Elves to the Southlands to take over Oreon's Camp. That leaves Norsca and Empire. And here Im thinking that we should get a good prelude to the Chaos of WH3. Because there is no Chaos-alligned faction in WH2, except Morathi, which is old news at this point. So far, its only been Skaven or Untainted factions. Lets bring 1 Chaos faction to bare and let Norsca shine for just a bit. Egil Styrbjorn will lead his Khorne-worshippers to Ulthuan or Naggaroth and even though Khorne hates magic, Norsca needs more lords than just a Chieftain, so give them a Seer. Lastly, Reiksmarshall Kurt Helborg brings in Sudenburg for the Empire. I know Snikch is literally in the next settlement over, but they can easily be moved up to Bel Aliad instead to give just a bit of room to maneuver. Plus give me a better start than this for Empire on Vortex.

What do you think guys, does this sound like a good road map?

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Comments

  • IamNotArobotIamNotArobot Registered Users Posts: 2,992
    Maybe beastmen vs wood elves fot better than norsca. Norsca is kinda complete except for more LLs.
    *Justice and CONFEDERATION for the Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast!
    *Exclusive DLCs for Tomb Kings, Vampire Coast, BM, CW and WE! #DLCsAreRacesToo
    *Remaster all WH1 and WH2 faction icons for WH3!
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  • ZekerathZekerath Registered Users Posts: 490

    Maybe beastmen vs wood elves fot better than norsca. Norsca is kinda complete except for more LLs.

    I mean really, Ariel and Morghur could have been released at the same time, they are (im)mortal enemies of each other. Would have been thematic. But that ship sailed long ago.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,016
    If it needs to be filthy Grim vs. Grom LP then Imrik should get his own DLC in Game3. FLC can go to Aislinn who fits nicely alongside the Lothern Skycutter. Or Finubar, he fits nicely with everything on the list.

    The High Elves should get two generic Lords as compensation for QnC. Add Merwyrm, War Lions and voila! Mistwalkers and Knights of Tor Gaval should be RoR.


    The Sisters of Twilight are mandatory LL pick for the Wood Elves.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • makar55makar55 Registered Users Posts: 2,398
    I hope your predictions will come true.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 476

    Maybe beastmen vs wood elves fot better than norsca. Norsca is kinda complete except for more LLs.

    Zekerath said:

    I mean really, Ariel and Morghur could have been released at the same time, they are (im)mortal enemies of each other. Would have been thematic. But that ship sailed long ago.

    I choose Norsca partially because it might be a lot to ask for two major race updates in one deal.

    The High Elves should get two generic Lords as compensation for QnC. Add Merwyrm, War Lions and voila! Mistwalkers and Knights of Tor Gaval should be RoR.

    The Sisters of Twilight are mandatory LL pick for the Wood Elves.

    Do you mean it should be a generic Griffon Cavalry and Tor Gaval should be ROR? And if CA overcomes the animation problem with the twins, sure, just gotta find a good start for them. Maybe they should be heroes though rather than lords?
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 3,757
    While I mostly agree with your prediction there’s a couple of things I don’t agree with.

    1. I don’t think we’re going to get a 2020 release for Warhammer 3. I think it’s going to be 2021. Reason being is that CA stated that Total War Troy won’t be getting a release date this month or next. This leads me to conclude that we’ll be getting a release date in March, April or May with the actual release being a few more months after that. Likely July, August or September. I don’t find it likely that CA releases two titles so close to each other. It’s something they’ve never done before. We don’t even have an announcement or hardly any information at all on WH3 either and I won’t expect that to come until after Troy is released.

    2. The Dwarves do have a presence though. There’s the Spine of Sotek Dwarves. There’s the Greybeard Prospectors. There’s Karak Zorn. If I had to put money on the 2nd LP, I think it’s going to be Throt the Unclean vs Joseph Bugman with an Empire LL as FLC. This would more or less complete the Skaven roster and give the Dwarves and the Empire their fifth LL. It’s also a classic rivalry between these two races that hasn’t been explored yet.

    3. I don’t believe that DLC races will be touched until after Game 3 releases. Based on CA’s comments, it doesn’t sound like the DLC races are in their plans for now but they are open to it later down the road.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • TimpeyoTimpeyo Registered Users Posts: 1,721
    I'd quite like a SK v Dwarf LP The Creator and The Mutated, with Throt v ether Makaisson or Burloksson and Bugman as LH as a special kind off Spellcaster that throws different barrels off bugmans to units for buffs instead off spells.

    Theres a few units I'd love to see mostly brood horror and Thunderbarge and seeing as they would both be experimenters would be nice to see CA create there own monstrous unit/War engine taking inspiration from old models e.g maybe a flying rat creature for moulder and a special tanky machine for dwarfs




  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 5,843
    If the WEs get a DLC it would be an incredible dissapointment to get Araloth, who is just a LL Glade Lord. Paid LLs should be more unique if the options are available. Sisters of Twilight would be the highest pick I think for paid, and Ariel and Drycha would come before Araloth I think too.

    Also a Norscan matchup is a bit strange for them, and Norsca have an undivided motif so and I belive Egil is Khorne (he also doesn't add anything, Norsca is short a caster LL, it has a melee focussed human in Wulfrik).

    Also on the HEs would go for Eltharion, Archmage, Annointed, Lions, Skycutter, Merwyrm myself.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 476
    Bonutz619 said:

    While I mostly agree with your prediction there’s a couple of things I don’t agree with.

    1. I don’t think we’re going to get a 2020 release for Warhammer 3. I think it’s going to be 2021. Reason being is that CA stated that Total War Troy won’t be getting a release date this month or next. This leads me to conclude that we’ll be getting a release date in March, April or May with the actual release being a few more months after that. Likely July, August or September. I don’t find it likely that CA releases two titles so close to each other. It’s something they’ve never done before. We don’t even have an announcement or hardly any information at all on WH3 either and I won’t expect that to come until after Troy is released.

    2. The Dwarves do have a presence though. There’s the Spine of Sotek Dwarves. There’s the Greybeard Prospectors. There’s Karak Zorn. If I had to put money on the 2nd LP, I think it’s going to be Throt the Unclean vs Joseph Bugman with an Empire LL as FLC. This would more or less complete the Skaven roster and give the Dwarves and the Empire their fifth LL. It’s also a classic rivalry between these two races that hasn’t been explored yet.

    Timpeyo said:

    I'd quite like a SK v Dwarf LP The Creator and The Mutated, with Throt v ether Makaisson or Burloksson and Bugman as LH as a special kind off Spellcaster that throws different barrels off bugmans to units for buffs instead off spells.

    Theres a few units I'd love to see mostly brood horror and Thunderbarge and seeing as they would both be experimenters would be nice to see CA create there own monstrous unit/War engine taking inspiration from old models e.g maybe a flying rat creature for moulder and a special tanky machine for dwarfs

    1. Britannia and Three Kingdoms released literally one year apart (May 2018/2019). Queen & the Crone was released in the same month as Britannia. Prophet & the Warlock was only 1 1/2 month old when Three Kingdoms released. The 2 DLCs of TK released so far has been within a month of a Warhammer DLC. So that's pretty close together. If the pattern hold, we'll have Troy by May 2020. But granted, there might be more delay after that for WH3.

    2. Josef is a good option for Dwarfs, but those positions are so isolated from each other that they couldn't offer much to a mountain-dwelling campaign. Besides, there are so few Greenskins for Bugman to smash. Throt is a good one too, they might go for him if they wanna cram all the major Skaven tribes before WH3. But then again, its relatively likely that Hell Pit could be on the WH3 map, so he could be a Skaven front-face for WH3.

  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,969
    The two DLCs in the steamdb are probably DLC+FLC, which means rather one coming up and not already a second in the pipeline. There is also the MWNL possibility for a FLC upcoming next (even if last year there was no MWNL and we don't know if it is happening this year).
    So in general, I would be careful with predicting at least three DLCs this year. I don't say it is impossible, but as long as CA does not contradict me, I have the feeling that game#2 is nearing it's end as soon as the missing High Elves DLC appeared and greenskins got their rework, one way or the other.


    Which brings us directly to your idea of Norsca VS Woodelves. I start with this

    and point out that no plans so far, means probably we are absolutely in the clear for the ticking game#2 clock, since those plans would have probably been on the roadmap way before if we take into account the whole Nakai/Gor-Rok thing and comments. For those unfamiliar,


    And while I would enjoy a Skeggi LL in the game#2 meantime, I can't actually believe in a DLC here because it's basically still Chaos. Chaos will get it's rework most likely in game#3. When DoC have arrived and their mechanics are getting finalized and only polished further. Norsca now would not change much, if you have to overhaul their shrines for example as soon as you have new daemons to bind into. Or adding Seer Lords now, while still no god dedication and god specific magic lores. That's just placeholder work now and doing the job again later, instead of doing it in one clean swoop directly later.

    Woodelves could need a rework for their mechanics, maybe some buffs and their Queen Butterfly as new LL. But, is there time for it? Again would the question come up when game#3 will be announced/released. It might also be smarter to hold them back for game#3. Think about it, game#3 might offer new mechanics in general, like game#2 did compared to game#2. Everyone might need a rework then. So delaying Woodelves also up to that point and then give them a proper job then would be better, even if in the meantime the complaining baout them continues. In that case would I have also been fine with delaying greenskins into game#3, to get them really up to speed, but since crossover DLCs are a thing now, I can see the allure of going Grom during game#2 and give greenskins a rework along the lines. Which also might prove useful to stem the current Ordertide, when greenskin settlements all around Empire & Dwarfs would get a powerlevel over 9000 for the time being ^^

    ------Red Dox
  • BonutzBonutz Registered Users Posts: 3,757
    edited January 2020

    Bonutz619 said:

    While I mostly agree with your prediction there’s a couple of things I don’t agree with.

    1. I don’t think we’re going to get a 2020 release for Warhammer 3. I think it’s going to be 2021. Reason being is that CA stated that Total War Troy won’t be getting a release date this month or next. This leads me to conclude that we’ll be getting a release date in March, April or May with the actual release being a few more months after that. Likely July, August or September. I don’t find it likely that CA releases two titles so close to each other. It’s something they’ve never done before. We don’t even have an announcement or hardly any information at all on WH3 either and I won’t expect that to come until after Troy is released.

    2. The Dwarves do have a presence though. There’s the Spine of Sotek Dwarves. There’s the Greybeard Prospectors. There’s Karak Zorn. If I had to put money on the 2nd LP, I think it’s going to be Throt the Unclean vs Joseph Bugman with an Empire LL as FLC. This would more or less complete the Skaven roster and give the Dwarves and the Empire their fifth LL. It’s also a classic rivalry between these two races that hasn’t been explored yet.

    Timpeyo said:

    I'd quite like a SK v Dwarf LP The Creator and The Mutated, with Throt v ether Makaisson or Burloksson and Bugman as LH as a special kind off Spellcaster that throws different barrels off bugmans to units for buffs instead off spells.

    Theres a few units I'd love to see mostly brood horror and Thunderbarge and seeing as they would both be experimenters would be nice to see CA create there own monstrous unit/War engine taking inspiration from old models e.g maybe a flying rat creature for moulder and a special tanky machine for dwarfs

    1. Britannia and Three Kingdoms released literally one year apart (May 2018/2019). Queen & the Crone was released in the same month as Britannia. Prophet & the Warlock was only 1 1/2 month old when Three Kingdoms released. The 2 DLCs of TK released so far has been within a month of a Warhammer DLC. So that's pretty close together. If the pattern hold, we'll have Troy by May 2020. But granted, there might be more delay after that for WH3.

    2. Josef is a good option for Dwarfs, but those positions are so isolated from each other that they couldn't offer much to a mountain-dwelling campaign. Besides, there are so few Greenskins for Bugman to smash. Throt is a good one too, they might go for him if they wanna cram all the major Skaven tribes before WH3. But then again, its relatively likely that Hell Pit could be on the WH3 map, so he could be a Skaven front-face for WH3.

    Yes but those are DLC’s, not full on standalone titles. CA has never released standalone titles back to back. Don’t get me wrong, I would LOVE a festag release for WH3 but just considering how long CA likes to market for a standalone title and considering how they’ve never released titles back to back, I just don’t find it very likely. But I hope I’m wrong.
    I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I’m all out of bubblegum.
  • 55JoNNo55JoNNo Registered Users Posts: 1,402
    I would revise down the number of unique (graphically) units you have coming for each faction. They are quite creatively economical, The last 3 packs have added the below:

    Prophet & The Warlock

    Skaven: Warlock Master (Lord version of Ikit), Jezzails, Gatling Gun, Doomflayer (reused crew model) (mount for LL & Lord)

    Lizardmen: Red Crested Skin Chief (Lord version of Tehen), Red Crested Skinks (reused skink model), Salamander Hunting Pack, Ancient Salamander (bigger salamander), Ripperdactyls (unique) (mount for LL and Lord), Ancient Stegadon (Engine of the Gods) (reused stegadon), Bastiladon (Ark of Sotek) (reused bastiladon)


    Hunter & The Beast

    Empire: Huntsman General (Lord version of Wulfhart), Archers, Huntsmen (reskinned archers), War Wagon, War Wagon (Mortar) (variant)

    Lizardmen: Ancient Kroxigor (Lord version of Nakai) ,Feral Dread Saurian (unique to the max), Dread Saurian (Howdah) (variant) , Razordon Hunting Pack (reskinned Salamander) , Sacred Kroxigors (new animation set for existing Kroxigor)

    Shadow & The Blade

    Skaven: Master Assassin (Lord version of Snikch), Eshin Sorcerer (unique Hero), Eshin Triads (unique), Poisoned-Wind Mortar (reused asset for crew), Warp-Grinder Weapon Teams (reused asset for crew)

    Dark Elves: High Beastmaster (First unique lord not tied to their LL- makes me suspicious that Rakarth is planned), Master (unique hero), Scourgerunner Chariot (reused assets), Bloodwrack Medusa (unique monster), Bloodwrack Shrine (unique monster, reused shrine).


    Looking at that you can see that they tend to get value from reusing some core assets, or tweaking them slightly. If they do introduce an entirely new unit, they usually make a variant. I'm not complaining , just pointing out the usual content for the price. For this reason I think we would see something like.

    Warden & the Waagh!

    High Elves:

    Eltharion (harder to work out - but I feel like they won't add White Lions due to Ithilmar Chariot) (Will be able to mount a Sky Cutter)
    - Archmage (unique lord not tied to Eltharion - hello Belannaer...)
    - Lothern Sea Helm (hero)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (archers) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (bolt thrower) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sea ??? / Yvresse Spire Guard - (Will use same model as crews the Sky Cutters), filling a niche - medium tier sword and shield with javelins or higher tier sword and shield.

    Greenskins:

    Grom (will be able to mount a pump wagon)
    - Great Orc Shaman (lord not tied to Grom, there is already a Nightgoblin Warboss which is too close. Grom had ol' Blacktoof an Orc Shaman help him invade Yvresse)
    - Orc Big Boss (hero)
    - Pump Wagon (Grom will be able to use one as his top tier mount) (will be crewed by Goblins not snotlings)
    - Pump Wagon (Spear Chukka) (will be crewed by Goblins not snotlings)
    - Spear Chukka (same crew as pump wagon)
    - Stone Trolls (modified / reskinned Trolls / new animation set)

    Change is on the way...


  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 476
    Goatforce said:

    If the WEs get a DLC it would be an incredible dissapointment to get Araloth, who is just a LL Glade Lord. Paid LLs should be more unique if the options are available. Sisters of Twilight would be the highest pick I think for paid, and Ariel and Drycha would come before Araloth I think too.

    Also a Norscan matchup is a bit strange for them, and Norsca have an undivided motif so and I belive Egil is Khorne (he also doesn't add anything, Norsca is short a caster LL, it has a melee focussed human in Wulfrik).

    Also on the HEs would go for Eltharion, Archmage, Annointed, Lions, Skycutter, Merwyrm myself.

    I would say the twins fit better as heroes and I have other positions in mind for Ariel and Drycha, which I will cover when I go through the Wood Elves in detail. And Egil is the High Jarl of the Skaelings, one of the major Norscan tribes, which is on the Vortex & ME maps both. A Norscan incursion into Ulthuan/northern Naggaroth seem reasonable to me atleast.

    Also, which is lord and hero to you, the Archmage & the Annointed?
    goliath55 said:

    Warden & the Waagh!

    High Elves:

    Eltharion (harder to work out - but I feel like they won't add White Lions due to Ithilmar Chariot) (Will be able to mount a Sky Cutter)
    - Archmage (unique lord not tied to Eltharion - hello Belannaer...)
    - Lothern Sea Helm (hero)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (archers) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (bolt thrower) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sea ??? / Yvresse Spire Guard - (Will use same model as crews the Sky Cutters), filling a niche - medium tier sword and shield with javelins or higher tier sword and shield.

    You do have a point the previous DLCs, but that seems more a roster appropriate for a Sea Lord Aislinn DLC besides the Archmage. And the War Lions are not just the chariots, its the independent pack/monster versions of them too.
  • 55JoNNo55JoNNo Registered Users Posts: 1,402

    Goatforce said:

    If the WEs get a DLC it would be an incredible dissapointment to get Araloth, who is just a LL Glade Lord. Paid LLs should be more unique if the options are available. Sisters of Twilight would be the highest pick I think for paid, and Ariel and Drycha would come before Araloth I think too.

    Also a Norscan matchup is a bit strange for them, and Norsca have an undivided motif so and I belive Egil is Khorne (he also doesn't add anything, Norsca is short a caster LL, it has a melee focussed human in Wulfrik).

    Also on the HEs would go for Eltharion, Archmage, Annointed, Lions, Skycutter, Merwyrm myself.

    I would say the twins fit better as heroes and I have other positions in mind for Ariel and Drycha, which I will cover when I go through the Wood Elves in detail. And Egil is the High Jarl of the Skaelings, one of the major Norscan tribes, which is on the Vortex & ME maps both. A Norscan incursion into Ulthuan/northern Naggaroth seem reasonable to me atleast.

    Also, which is lord and hero to you, the Archmage & the Annointed?
    goliath55 said:

    Warden & the Waagh!

    High Elves:

    Eltharion (harder to work out - but I feel like they won't add White Lions due to Ithilmar Chariot) (Will be able to mount a Sky Cutter)
    - Archmage (unique lord not tied to Eltharion - hello Belannaer...)
    - Lothern Sea Helm (hero)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (archers) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (bolt thrower) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sea ??? / Yvresse Spire Guard - (Will use same model as crews the Sky Cutters), filling a niche - medium tier sword and shield with javelins or higher tier sword and shield.

    You do have a point the previous DLCs, but that seems more a roster appropriate for a Sea Lord Aislinn DLC besides the Archmage. And the War Lions are not just the chariots, its the independent pack/monster versions of them too.
    True... I think the issue is there aren't really any missing HE units strongly themed to Yvresse. The Skycutter seems like a better fit than White Lions which are more exclusively linked to Chrace. Of all of them, I could see the Skycutter being linked:

    "Princes of Yvresse dislike fighting from the skies, for their homeland is swathed in a mist that makes flying a very dangerous proposition indeed. However, there were always those to flout convention - the Knights of Tor Gaval were one such group, and had trained their entire lives to fight atop winged steeds amongst Yvresse's thick mists. Some rode griffons, others eagles - a few had even purchased skycutters from the navy of Lothern. Thanks to the challenges of training in their murky homeland, the Knights of Tor Gaval were rightly said to be amongst the most talented of wingmen in all Ulthuan"

    It could be that they get some kind of Griffon Knight unit instead.
    Change is on the way...


  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 476
    goliath55 said:



    True... I think the issue is there aren't really any missing HE units strongly themed to Yvresse. The Skycutter seems like a better fit than White Lions which are more exclusively linked to Chrace. Of all of them, I could see the Skycutter being linked:

    "Princes of Yvresse dislike fighting from the skies, for their homeland is swathed in a mist that makes flying a very dangerous proposition indeed. However, there were always those to flout convention - the Knights of Tor Gaval were one such group, and had trained their entire lives to fight atop winged steeds amongst Yvresse's thick mists. Some rode griffons, others eagles - a few had even purchased skycutters from the navy of Lothern. Thanks to the challenges of training in their murky homeland, the Knights of Tor Gaval were rightly said to be amongst the most talented of wingmen in all Ulthuan"

    It could be that they get some kind of Griffon Knight unit instead.

    Well a Chrace DLC is never gonna come on its own, not enough specific content so you gotta mix stuff in, like they just did with Clan Eshin and the Warp Grinders
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,016

    Maybe beastmen vs wood elves fot better than norsca. Norsca is kinda complete except for more LLs.

    Zekerath said:

    I mean really, Ariel and Morghur could have been released at the same time, they are (im)mortal enemies of each other. Would have been thematic. But that ship sailed long ago.

    I choose Norsca partially because it might be a lot to ask for two major race updates in one deal.

    The High Elves should get two generic Lords as compensation for QnC. Add Merwyrm, War Lions and voila! Mistwalkers and Knights of Tor Gaval should be RoR.

    The Sisters of Twilight are mandatory LL pick for the Wood Elves.

    Do you mean it should be a generic Griffon Cavalry and Tor Gaval should be ROR? And if CA overcomes the animation problem with the twins, sure, just gotta find a good start for them. Maybe they should be heroes though rather than lords?
    No, Griffon riders should be limited to RoR akin to Raven Heralds.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 4,063

    Britannia and Three Kingdoms released literally one year apart

    3K got delayed twice, so apparently that wasn't the plan.
  • 10101010 Registered Users Posts: 246

    Hello everyone! I previously did a speculation thread about the remaining content for WH2, but I realized along the way that I had made some errors and thinking down the wrong paths. After having re-examined the state of Total War Warhammer, I have come up with a new projection. In this thread I will dicuss what I think will be the ultimate future for all the WH1 and WH2 races, not including Chaos, once all updates and DLCs have been ironed out. I will be focusing mainly on the factions, lords, units and starting positions left to add and not trying to predict any new mechanics, since that is not really my field. I welcome any thoughts you guys might have on that or what other DLCs you have in mind for the remainder of WH2!


    The pattern of updates and DLCs over the last 2 years has been 3 updates, accompanied by a DLC, per year. For 2018, that was the Tomb Kings, Alarielle/Hellebron and Vampire Coast DLCs. For 2019, that was Tehenhauin/Ikit Claw, Wulfhart/Nakai and Darkblade/Snikch. Now, according to the Steam Database as of January 2020, there are 2 unknown DLCs lying in wait for WH2. This leaves me to conclude that we're gonna be getting 2 more DLCs for Warhammer 2, probably around April-May and then September and after that will be the grand release of WH3 around Christmas/Festag 2020. So without further adue, here is my take on what those 2 finishing DLCs will be:

    DLC 1 - The Warden & the Warboss


    April/May 2020 - Describtion:
    The commonly agreed upon DLC. That doesn't mean its gonna be any less awesome. Its the Greenskins update everyone, except me who don't play them lol, has been waiting for. As I said Im not gonna try to predict any new GS mechanics, but I can give you a prediction on the setting. Yvresse is going to get invaded from 3 directions. Grom is gonna start either in the northeastern islands in a direct threat against the capital or in the Badlands to the south. Add to that is the threat from the southwest by Aranessa Saltspite. And from the far west, comes Eltharion himself. Yes, I don't think Eltharion starting in control of all or even parts of Yvresse is going to work very well. Therefore, I have placed him in the High Elf colony of Arnheim in Naggaroth. Your objective as Eltharion will be to secure your immediate surroundings around Arnheim, which will be tough work indeed with Morathi directly to your west. Once she is vanquished, hopefully before she calls upon Malekith to help, must be to race east back to your homelands to save it from pirates and finally Grom. So starting as Eltharion, you are going to have to cut through Morathi and possibly Tretch Craventail, then race across the ocean, either dodging or engaging Count Noctilus along the way, to then break through the Sartosan blockade and finally square off with Grom.

    As for the FLC I see two possiblities, either Imrik of Caledor or one of Kouran Darkhand or Tullaris Dreadbringer. For the Dark Elves, I see it mainly as an oppertunity to smash in a 6th lord to complete their roster. I will go further into my reasoning there when I cover the future of the Dark Elves here, but in short, the Dark Elves are very done in their unit roster, there's no more material for DLCs. For Imrik, its mainly because he's a fan-favourite and so we maybe could bring in one or two Caledor-themed units. Then again, Caledor itself is not the greatest of start positions and its not my preferred choice for the 6th HE lord. More on that when I cover the future of the High Elves in more detail.

    DLC 2 - The Butcher & the Bold


    September 2020 - Describtion:
    This DLC is far less clear cut than the previous one. My reasoning on this one is basically "to get stuff out of the way before WH3". Consider this: the Greenskins need an update, which will come with the previous DLC. What other races need updates and/or are not a part of WH2 yet? My answer is Wood Elves, Beastmen and to some extent Dwarfs, Empire and Norsca. Now the devs have said that WH3 will be "Total Chaos", so probably a heavy emphasis, as it should, on the various vessels of Chaos. To me, that's a good reason to to hold off on the Beastmen update until WH3, so they can roar into an environment they thrive in. As for the Dwarfs, WH2's vortex is not ideal for any Dwarf start tbh and the missing Dwarf characters have absolutely ZERO connection to the new world, so they will have to sit WH2 out. That leaves Wood Elves, Empire and Norsca. And consider, how well do the Wood Elves fit into the Dark Lands of WH3? Hardly at all, therefore it would be ideal to do their overhaul before WH3 launches.

    Coupled with the overhaul, Araloth, Champion of Queen Ariel, will lead the Wood Elves to the Southlands to take over Oreon's Camp. That leaves Norsca and Empire. And here Im thinking that we should get a good prelude to the Chaos of WH3. Because there is no Chaos-alligned faction in WH2, except Morathi, which is old news at this point. So far, its only been Skaven or Untainted factions. Lets bring 1 Chaos faction to bare and let Norsca shine for just a bit. Egil Styrbjorn will lead his Khorne-worshippers to Ulthuan or Naggaroth and even though Khorne hates magic, Norsca needs more lords than just a Chieftain, so give them a Seer. Lastly, Reiksmarshall Kurt Helborg brings in Sudenburg for the Empire. I know Snikch is literally in the next settlement over, but they can easily be moved up to Bel Aliad instead to give just a bit of room to maneuver. Plus give me a better start than this for Empire on Vortex.

    What do you think guys, does this sound like a good road map?

    + 1
  • EarthDragonEarthDragon Registered Users Posts: 649

    If it needs to be filthy Grim vs. Grom LP then Imrik should get his own DLC in Game3. FLC can go to Aislinn who fits nicely alongside the Lothern Skycutter. Or Finubar, he fits nicely with everything on the list.

    The High Elves should get two generic Lords as compensation for QnC. Add Merwyrm, War Lions and voila! Mistwalkers and Knights of Tor Gaval should be RoR.


    The Sisters of Twilight are mandatory LL pick for the Wood Elves.

    For someone who constantly plugs for High Elf content, you sure do dismiss the fact that Finubar is very much a bureaucrat and sends others out to lead his armies, namely Tyrion and Korhil. So why would they give us a Legendary Lord that never goes to war himself? In particular when they haven't even released his other favored general
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,016

    If it needs to be filthy Grim vs. Grom LP then Imrik should get his own DLC in Game3. FLC can go to Aislinn who fits nicely alongside the Lothern Skycutter. Or Finubar, he fits nicely with everything on the list.

    The High Elves should get two generic Lords as compensation for QnC. Add Merwyrm, War Lions and voila! Mistwalkers and Knights of Tor Gaval should be RoR.


    The Sisters of Twilight are mandatory LL pick for the Wood Elves.

    For someone who constantly plugs for High Elf content, you sure do dismiss the fact that Finubar is very much a bureaucrat and sends others out to lead his armies, namely Tyrion and Korhil. So why would they give us a Legendary Lord that never goes to war himself? In particular when they haven't even released his other favored general
    And he can have intrigue intensive campaign. According to 8ed HE armybook Finubar was present in many battles. Did he lead them? Probably not, but this can be represented by having Korhil LH by his side. Korhil is first and foremost Finubar's bodyguard after all.

    Personally I'm not a fan of Finubar, far from it in fact, but he is a viable alternative to Aislinn.
    animacja-sygn-3.gif


  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,933
    Finubar can and has led armies, it's just that when it comes to High Elf Princes, he's nothing special in that department.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 5,843

    Goatforce said:

    If the WEs get a DLC it would be an incredible dissapointment to get Araloth, who is just a LL Glade Lord. Paid LLs should be more unique if the options are available. Sisters of Twilight would be the highest pick I think for paid, and Ariel and Drycha would come before Araloth I think too.

    Also a Norscan matchup is a bit strange for them, and Norsca have an undivided motif so and I belive Egil is Khorne (he also doesn't add anything, Norsca is short a caster LL, it has a melee focussed human in Wulfrik).

    Also on the HEs would go for Eltharion, Archmage, Annointed, Lions, Skycutter, Merwyrm myself.

    I would say the twins fit better as heroes and I have other positions in mind for Ariel and Drycha, which I will cover when I go through the Wood Elves in detail. And Egil is the High Jarl of the Skaelings, one of the major Norscan tribes, which is on the Vortex & ME maps both. A Norscan incursion into Ulthuan/northern Naggaroth seem reasonable to me atleast.

    Also, which is lord and hero to you, the Archmage & the Annointed?
    goliath55 said:

    Warden & the Waagh!

    High Elves:

    Eltharion (harder to work out - but I feel like they won't add White Lions due to Ithilmar Chariot) (Will be able to mount a Sky Cutter)
    - Archmage (unique lord not tied to Eltharion - hello Belannaer...)
    - Lothern Sea Helm (hero)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (archers) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sky Cutter (bolt thrower) (will reuse Eagle and Chariot assets)
    - Lothern Sea ??? / Yvresse Spire Guard - (Will use same model as crews the Sky Cutters), filling a niche - medium tier sword and shield with javelins or higher tier sword and shield.

    You do have a point the previous DLCs, but that seems more a roster appropriate for a Sea Lord Aislinn DLC besides the Archmage. And the War Lions are not just the chariots, its the independent pack/monster versions of them too.
    Araloth just seems like an incredibly dull option to me - Sisters, Ariel and Drycha just seem to bring more to the table and I doubt WEs will get more than 5 (in fact 4 would be lucky most likely).

    Yes, but, as I recall is Khorne aligned and Norsca's mechanics are built around choosing alignment. Even if I am wrong on that he brings little to them that they don't already have - Norsca needs a caster first and foremost (in fact a caster LL and Lord is all they really need imo).

    Both are Lords, I am not sure why we need 1 Lord and 1 Hero rather than just 2 characters. Personally am very meh on HE remaining hero options anyway, and I find Archmage to be essential (as well as a greater range of magic for all elves), and Annointed to be the most interesting remaining character after that.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 476

    For someone who constantly plugs for High Elf content, you sure do dismiss the fact that Finubar is very much a bureaucrat and sends others out to lead his armies, namely Tyrion and Korhil. So why would they give us a Legendary Lord that never goes to war himself? In particular when they haven't even released his other favored general

    And he can have intrigue intensive campaign. According to 8ed HE armybook Finubar was present in many battles. Did he lead them? Probably not, but this can be represented by having Korhil LH by his side. Korhil is first and foremost Finubar's bodyguard after all.

    Personally I'm not a fan of Finubar, far from it in fact, but he is a viable alternative to Aislinn.

    Draxynnic said:

    Finubar can and has led armies, it's just that when it comes to High Elf Princes, he's nothing special in that department.

    I agree, Finubar would not bring anything unique. If anything he would have been the starting lord for Lothern at release, but with Tyrion in charge, Finubar's got no chance

  • saweendrasaweendra Registered Users Posts: 10,892
    edited January 2020

    If it needs to be filthy Grim vs. Grom LP then Imrik should get his own DLC in Game3. FLC can go to Aislinn who fits nicely alongside the Lothern Skycutter. Or Finubar, he fits nicely with everything on the list.

    The High Elves should get two generic Lords as compensation for QnC. Add Merwyrm, War Lions and voila! Mistwalkers and Knights of Tor Gaval should

    If it needs to be filthy Grim vs. Grom LP then Imrik should get his own DLC in Game3. FLC can go to Aislinn who fits nicely alongside the Lothern Skycutter. Or Finubar, he fits nicely with everything on the list.

    The High Elves should get two generic Lords as compensation for QnC. Add Merwyrm, War Lions and voila! Mistwalkers and Knights of Tor Gaval should be RoR.


    The Sisters of Twilight are mandatory LL pick for the Wood Elves.

    For someone who constantly plugs for High Elf content, you sure do dismiss the fact that Finubar is very much a bureaucrat and sends others out to lead his armies, namely Tyrion and Korhil. So why would they give us a Legendary Lord that never goes to war himself? In particular when they haven't even released his other favored general
    And he can have intrigue intensive campaign. According to 8ed HE armybook Finubar was present in many battles. Did he lead them? Probably not, but this can be represented by having Korhil LH by his side. Korhil is first and foremost Finubar's bodyguard after all.

    Personally I'm not a fan of Finubar, far from it in fact, but he is a viable alternative to Aislinn.
    I really like him as a flc lord. He has much potential, just like imrik has much potential as dlc. he has anti large weapon, with magic protection he survived flames if asurian so he could likly get a Phoenix mount. He has theme of sea farer, diplomat, he is the Phoenix king so there is no reason why he couldn't order rest of the elves around. Why not the mute Phoenix guard leader mostly becuase i don't like him he creeps me out. And i feel for finubar i mean we need a chance to rewrite the end times as we fit in game 3.

    Only reason i pick him over aisilinn is between imrik and alith anar aisilin roles are covered.

    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 476
    Goatforce said:

    Araloth just seems like an incredibly dull option to me - Sisters, Ariel and Drycha just seem to bring more to the table and I doubt WEs will get more than 5 (in fact 4 would be lucky most likely).

    Yes, but, as I recall is Khorne aligned and Norsca's mechanics are built around choosing alignment. Even if I am wrong on that he brings little to them that they don't already have - Norsca needs a caster first and foremost (in fact a caster LL and Lord is all they really need imo).

    I can see that standpoint, a Glade Lord might not be terribly exciting. Lets just say I chose him here if the Wood Elves are getting a spot/overhaul for game 2 instead of 3. It just didn't feel right to plop Drycha or Ariel into a very obscure Southlands reference rather than say Laurelorn or the Haunted Forest. Otherwise, I'd be content to skip him completely in favour of those others.

    I don't think I know of a major Norsca-specific named caster sadly. They're all Marauder chiefs & kings
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 5,843

    Goatforce said:

    Araloth just seems like an incredibly dull option to me - Sisters, Ariel and Drycha just seem to bring more to the table and I doubt WEs will get more than 5 (in fact 4 would be lucky most likely).

    Yes, but, as I recall is Khorne aligned and Norsca's mechanics are built around choosing alignment. Even if I am wrong on that he brings little to them that they don't already have - Norsca needs a caster first and foremost (in fact a caster LL and Lord is all they really need imo).

    I can see that standpoint, a Glade Lord might not be terribly exciting. Lets just say I chose him here if the Wood Elves are getting a spot/overhaul for game 2 instead of 3. It just didn't feel right to plop Drycha or Ariel into a very obscure Southlands reference rather than say Laurelorn or the Haunted Forest. Otherwise, I'd be content to skip him completely in favour of those others.

    I don't think I know of a major Norsca-specific named caster sadly. They're all Marauder chiefs & kings
    Assuming CA aren't planning on adding the Kurgan as their own race (meaning they will be Norsca clones anyway) Sayl the Faithless can fit the bill as a caster LL - he is both hated and highly manipulative so a "after being kicked out of his tribe he managed to assume power over a Norscan tribe" would be sufficient for him. They could also "Cylostra" a fimit Matriarch as a caster LL - which I think would be ok for a minor race like Norsca, although there may be some old named characters from when Fimir was its own race they could use.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,933
    Now, to actually comment on the topic, which I neglected to do despite having thoughts in mind...

    Like Red Dox said, two DLCs in the steamdb doesn't necessarily mean that there are two lord packs incoming. One might be the FLC coming alongside the DLC, or the second might be preliminary work going into the Game 3 preorder, which might not be a lord pack.

    Personally, in terms of generic characters, I'm hoping that CA recognises that High Elves missed out on a generic lord last time and releases the Archmage and the Annointed. If it is just one, though, the Archmage wins, hands down.

    I don't think there's much chance of a fifth hero due to apparent interface limits, noting that different lores of magic have a separate interface element. Interestingly, this has been done for Plague Priests and Eshin Sorcerers, so Skaven technically only have three of the four slots filled, so a hypothetical Dragon Mage could still go in the "mage" slot.

    In terms of new greenskin units... I'm hoping Grom comes with troll variants. Between troll meat being the source of his strength, and trolls being a monster that is present on Ulthuan and thus could be recruited "on site", it feels like a good fit.

    If, hypothetically, there was to be a second Lord Pack...

    If any of the Chaos factions were to get another look before TWW3, I'd probably go with Beastmen. Partly because BM versus WE is so iconic, but partially because from the 7E and 8E fluff, the Beastmen are probably the Chaos race least likely to benefit from new Chaos material in game 3, such as god-specific lores (which the lost access to in tabletop with the 7E book). That doesn't mean they won't be benefiting from work being done - for instance, the Ghorgon rig could be a prototype for the Keeper of Secrets rig - but they don't need actual demons or god-specific magic lores, unlike WoC and arguably even Norsca.

    Dwarfs could also be a possibility.
  • TheWattmanTheWattman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 476
    Goatforce said:

    Assuming CA aren't planning on adding the Kurgan as their own race (meaning they will be Norsca clones anyway) Sayl the Faithless can fit the bill as a caster LL - he is both hated and highly manipulative so a "after being kicked out of his tribe he managed to assume power over a Norscan tribe" would be sufficient for him. They could also "Cylostra" a fimit Matriarch as a caster LL - which I think would be ok for a minor race like Norsca, although there may be some old named characters from when Fimir was its own race they could use.

    A seperate Fimir faction would be pretty sweet indeed. Interesting concept with Sayl, we'll have to see just how extensive game 3 will be with all the Chaos tribes.
    Draxynnic said:

    If, hypothetically, there was to be a second Lord Pack...

    If any of the Chaos factions were to get another look before TWW3, I'd probably go with Beastmen. Partly because BM versus WE is so iconic, but partially because from the 7E and 8E fluff, the Beastmen are probably the Chaos race least likely to benefit from new Chaos material in game 3, such as god-specific lores (which the lost access to in tabletop with the 7E book). That doesn't mean they won't be benefiting from work being done - for instance, the Ghorgon rig could be a prototype for the Keeper of Secrets rig - but they don't need actual demons or god-specific magic lores, unlike WoC and arguably even Norsca.

    Fair point. I did consider a Beastmen rework for the last DLC after the Greenskins, but it felt a little out of place. Plus, the Lords I have in mind for the Beastmen are more connected with the Old World. That being said, I used to think an FLC bringing in Ghorros Warhoof into Naggaroth would be a good way to go with some Beastmen action, but not the major rework.
  • SerPusSerPus Registered Users Posts: 4,063


    That leaves Wood Elves, Empire and Norsca

    For what, exactly? I get it that WE fans want a rework and a new LL, but there is no need for a Lord Pack to make it happen. As for Norsca, they aren't missing anything because it's not even a real faction.

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