We probably all agree that an Ulric themed Middenland DLC is a must for WH3, but there is one scenario which would be perfect for another empire crossover LP.
If the Middenland LP would be Empire vs DoC we would still need one more Match up between the Empire and the forces of Chaos...
Warriors of Chaos vs The Empire
Tamurkkhan vs Elspeth von Draken
This LP would be based on Tamurkkhan: the Throne of Chaos, a campaign book which describes the Rise and Fall of Tamurkkhan, Champion of Nurgle. This story ended with the final assault on the City of Nuln.
So far about the Lore aspect. The Story and rivalry would be perfect and we can assume that Warriors of Chaos will get a huge rework in WH3 so they would be in a position where they could get DLCs. They are also missing tons of god aligned units and Characters.
Tamurkkhan would add the Nurgle theme for Warriors of Chaos, but what could Elspeth von Draken add? Is she even the most realistic LL candidate out of that campaign book?
In my opinion she definitely is, because she would be a female wizard of death riding a dragon. That would make her Completely unique in the Empire race and is, if we are honest, absolutely badass.
Characters like Emmanuelle von Liebwitz or Theodore Bruckner are no LL material and Jubal Falk is just an Engineer perfect as a LH.
What other things Besides of her character could Elspeth add?
This is based on missing empire units and Heroes as well as content described in Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos:
LL: Elspeth von Draken
LH: Jubal Falk
Lord: Arch Wizard
Hero: Master Engineer (Mechanical steed and Steam Tank Mount)
Possible Units:
- Nuln Ironsides (maybe just RoR)
- Marienburg Land Battle Ship
- Longriffles (Snipers similar to Jezzails)
- Celestial Hurricanum
- Carmine Dragon (maybe just as a Mount)
The Land Battleship is originally from Marienburg but ittook part in the Tamurkkhan Book and would also fit perfectly to the engineering heavy Nuln Theme.
The same goes for the Longriffles which are originally a RoR unit from Hochland. They are not mentioned in the book but they would also fit perfectly to Nuln. Furthermore they would fulfil a new role similar to Jezzails.
With those units and the engineer hero it would finally be possible to field a ranged Gunpowder and technic themed army as the empire, similar to Clan Skryre.
Right now the Empire is missing certain niche units to make such an army Build effective enough.
The Celestial Hurricanum might just be a boring magical chariot, but it’s the last Empire Unit from the Army Book and it would also fit to the wizard theme of that LP.
What do you guys think, would you like such a crossover for Game 3 next to another Ulric themed empire LP?
I‘m not so familiar with WoC, so what Nurgle units could Tamurkkhan bring?
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She breaks so many basic Empire moulds that it's like she's from a different race or game entirely.
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6 · Disagree AgreeTamurkkhan is the Champion of Nurgle, the god of decay, Elsbeth is the most powerful human wizard of the lore of Death...
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0 · Disagree AgreeThat aside it would give the Empire
- Another Caster LL, but Death
- A unique Mount
- Probably Legendary Hero Theodore Bruckner
I personally, think she SHOULDN'T come. Inb4 misogynistic, I do want Valkia, Nefereta, Sisters, Ariel. Elspeth was made by FW, and she is kind off the antithesis to the Empire themes. Some could argue that only makes her unique, hence why she should be included even more, and that's fair.But I won't stand in the way if CA chooses this approach, as long as I get Boris with his units at some point.
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4 · Disagree Agreeand Jubal Falk needs to make it in a = LL version for generic Empire Master Engineer generals.
Hell I'd prefer Von Liebwitz over Von Draken. She'll have a much more interesting gameplay mechanics being completely useless in combat. Von Draken would just be another OP big monster plus caster unit.
As @Commissar_G said, von Draken just breaks too many Empire norms with her dragon to be a feature. If she does get implemented she should be on a timer like The Green Knight, G&F etc. Suits her lore as being a aloner and massively OP.
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0 · Disagree AgreeFor Ulric
#givemoreunitsforbrettonia, my bret dlc
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3 · Disagree AgreeAnother good thing about her as a LL choice is that characters like Toddy are likely to be planted at home within the Empires borders and engaging in the Electoral Politics of their homeland. Elsbeth, Wulfhart and Kurt Helborg are probably the only 3 characters in the running for Empire LL that actually justify a Unique start position abroad, being part of some expedition, crusade or something along those lines.
Elsbeth herself is said to have waged many secret wars behind the scenes against Vampires, chaos etc and in her quest for arcane artifacts and such. She could have a similar campaign to Thorek Ironbrow in that regard as well, since, hopefully, Thorek will have some mechanics based around saving Holds that are in peril and digging through ones that long since fell, to rediscover the traditions and technology of his ancestors.
Vampire Counts
Bretonnia
Lizardmen
Dark Elves
High Elves
Skaven
Greenskins
Dwarfs
Wood Elves
Beastmen
Missing Factions Series
Dogs of War part 1
Dogs of War part 2
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeFalk is like current Ghorst, he should be LH, not LL.
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0 · Disagree AgreeI said this could be another crossover after Middenland.
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1 · Disagree AgreeEhh i’ll pass on Elspeth. Would rather have Helborg, Leitdorf and/or Valten.
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0 · Disagree AgreeVampire Counts
Bretonnia
Lizardmen
Dark Elves
High Elves
Skaven
Greenskins
Dwarfs
Wood Elves
Beastmen
Missing Factions Series
Dogs of War part 1
Dogs of War part 2
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeThe new empire LL needs to start in the new part of the WH3 map. The only options here are Emil Valgeir and Elspeth.
Tamurkkhan wouid be a Perfect basis for a WoC vs Empire Crossover and Elspeth is the only option like I already explained in my post.
The units are mostly connected with the Tamurkkhan book or at least to Nuln so it needs to be a character out of that book.
But in this book she’s the only option. Jubal is just a hero, Bruckner is just a generic dude riding a Demygryph and Emmanuelle is no general leading armies.
Jubal is the Perfect LH, especially when we get the generic Engineer Hero option in this DLC.
Why should we get an engineer LL, an engineer hero option and a Wizard Lord? That’s not how CA works!
Elspeth fits with her lore and she is a grimdark character perfect for the Chaos heavy apocalyptic last game of the trilogy.
She’s something new in all terms and we know that CA picks LLs depending on what they would add to the game.
- her badass lore
- Dragon Mount
- Wizard of Death
- generic Wizard Lord option as a mini-me
- Female
- Can work as an expedition force
- Connected with Nuln
- Rival of Tamurkkhan
She is the best Choice of the remaining options.
I assume we will get the following Empire crossovers in WH3.
1. DoC vs Empire (Emil Valgeir)
2. WoC vs Empire (Elspeth)
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1 · Disagree 1AgreeIf Empire will get 4th Lord pack with non-Ulric/middenland stuff, I prefer Jubal Falk. He can be very interesting Legendary lord. He is a much better presentation of Nurn.
I think Master Engineer will be new generic lord option, Empire already have four generic heroes.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree2. Game 3 is a stand alone game so the Empire probably won’t be part of the map. The Dark Lands and Mountains of Mourn definitely will be on the map.
3. From that argument we should also get a Witch Hunter LL because the Empire doesn’t have that kind of LL. Engineers are Heroes buffing troops, they are no commanders.
My post described pretty well why I think Elspeth is the perfect candidate. This speculation is based on the Tamurkkhan Campaign book with its main factions being Nuln and Warriors of Chaos.
So if Tamurkkhan would be the one half of the LP who would be the other half?
- Emmanuelle
- Bruckner
- Jubal
- Elspeth
Out of those Elspeth is the best option because she is unique and fits perfectly against Tamurkkhan. The Champion of Decay vs a Wizard of Death. That’s a really good matchup. Jubal vs Tamurkkhan would just feel forced...
Just think about how CA picks their LLs. I agree that Jubal would also be unique and theoretical could also work as a LL. But he doesn’t fit for a Matchup against Tamurkkhan. He’s a perfect LH like Henri le Massif or Wulfharts hunters.
And another point besides of all the other pros I listed is also, that Elspeth is a female character. We got Aranessa for the same reason even if Vangheist was a way better LL option.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeWell Jubal might also be a unique character, arguing which one is more unique is about personal taste I think.
I agree that Jubal could work, he could come along nearly the same units like Elspeth since he is also part of the Tamurkkhan book.
CA could make the Master Engineer as a Lord option and keep Wizards as heroes only. It could work, but I just think that Elspeth is a better choice against Tamurkkhan with his Nurgle focus. Death vs Death would be a good matchup. This is just my personal opinion of course.
Even with Elspeth, Nuln or a Nuln expedition could heavily focus on gunpowder and technic stuff.
Well I don’t want this to become another female vs male discussion, but since the empire doesn’t have a female character, it is definitely something CA could consider for their decision making process next to all other pros in favour for Elspeth.
If CA needs to make a decision between 2 really cool and unique characters, the fact that Elspeth is female could be the little cherry on top.
But we’ll both Jubal and Elspeth are good candidates that would work. It’s all depending on which Lord option CA want to add. I never thought Jubal is such a popular character, that’s why I picked Elspeth for my post.
So let’s just say Jubal/Elspeth vs Tamurkkhan. I think the matchup between Nuln and Warriors of Nurgle would be perfect, doesn’t really matter which LL gets the spot in the end.
It would be a perfect way to add the missing non ulrican empire things together with WoC Nurgle stuff.
This way the Empire would have representations for its 3 major Cities, Altdorf, Middenheim and Nuln.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI picked Elspeth but it could of course also be Jubal.
From what I’ve seen here on this forum, most people see Elspeth, Helborg and Emil Valgeir as the most realistic LL candidates. Since Jubal didn’t seem to be quite popular to me and Kurt has no connection with Tamurkkhan or Nuln at all, I picked Elspeth. We don’t have a flying LL for the empire, Gelt only has a boring Pegasus.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeWell the empire has so many cool characters but Valten and Huss have no connection with Nuln or Tamurkkhan at all and that’s basically the point I wanted to make.
The missing non Ulric things for the empire are:
- Ironsides
- Landship
- Hurricanum
- Longriffles
- Engineer
- Wizard Lord
Those things are mostly connected with the Tamurkkhan book and Nuln. That’s why in my opinion Valten, Huss, Kurt and Marius don’t make any sense as a LP candidate.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeFor Tamurkhan an assortment of the missing WoC monsters (Mutalith, Chaos Warshrine, Chimera, etc) would fit well, and you could have Nurgle-specific RoR for each of them.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeJubal LH
Huss LH
Elspeth would be a deeply unique choice, and would offer more interesting campaign mechanics given she is so different from all other Lords, lorewise, playwise and in what she can offer to gameplay.
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0 · Disagree Agreelorewise - Huss and Valten both have been in politically motivated conflicts as far as Empire goes(Valten not really), effectively being on the fringe. The only time any of these three can be added to the game is when they are actually alongside the Empire's armies so that does nothing.
playwise - the only thing people come up with is that she would have magic and gunpowder focus which is what Gelt already has.
gameplay - how is this different from playwise? If you're talking battlefield role then Franz's gryphon is already the flying tank.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeHuss is more usable than valten as a LH
If a a semi ethereal death Wizard lord on a dragon doesn't seem different then no other lord will if you take a simplistic attitude
Emil is just an arch lector
Jubal is Marcus with gunpowder
Helborg a tankier duelist empire general.
Jubal as a hero offers more
Elspeth is a dark character and offers a very different campaign than other empire characters who are more typically 'good'
There's far more scope to her than the others.
Don't get me wrong I want them all. But she's a very dark character with mysterious motives which Ca could do a lot with.
Help the empire and order or go down a darker path. Let the player decide.
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
4 · Disagree Agree