Liu Chong's Principality of Chen and Cao Cao's early territory.

Jerroser

After playing through a game with Liu Chong learning a bit about his history, I became a little curious about the exact territory he controlled and how it was placed in relation to Cao Cao's position early on. As a lot of the historical maps I can find seem to put Cao Cao in control of the whole area with no indication of what Liu Chong controlled.

The best map I can find is this one which would be just after his assassination as it is only listed as 190s but I assume is where things where around 197AD.


But even one the time laps maps I've seen that starts from 190 doesn't appear to list him on the map at all.

nephlite

He is almost forgotten, so it is hard to know how powerful his real forces were.
There are many heroes who are forgotten because of just lost record.

Misaka_Complex

Liu Chong controlled Chen, Cao Cao controlled ChenLiu and Xu Chang (YingChuan in the game). Since there is no ChenLiu in the game and some of the historical commandaries such as XiaoPei are missing it's very unclear.

Jerroser

I see, so Liu Chong's lands were roughly around the commandary of Chen where Cao Cao originally started and Cao Cao's starting lands where likely just above that area? But its hard to determine the exact size due to a a lack of accurate records.

It's something I found especially strange given that in the MoH start Liu Chong seems to control quite a large area. So would it be safe to assume that in reality his actual princedom of Chen was closer in size to what he gets in the main campaign start or did it get dramatically reduced in size between 182 and 190?

Misaka_Complex

Jerroser said:

I see, so Liu Chong's lands were roughly around the commandary of Chen where Cao Cao originally started and Cao Cao's starting lands where likely just above that area? But its hard to determine the exact size due to a a lack of accurate records.

It's something I found especially strange given that in the MoH start Liu Chong seems to control quite a large area. So would it be safe to assume that in reality his actual princedom of Chen was closer in size to what he gets in the main campaign start or did it get dramatically reduced in size between 182 and 190?

As you mentioned, there are no precise records indicating the size of the lands so we don't know if during 190 Cao Cao's ChenLiu was bigger than Liu Chong's Chen, but we do know that once Cao Cao took XuChang (YingChuan in the game) and held on to ChenLiu, his territory combined was bigger than Liu Chong' even before taking Tao Qian's lands. .

decourcy2

At the end of 190 Cao Cao was appointed governor of Dong.

Misaka_Complex

decourcy2 said:

At the end of 190 Cao Cao was appointed governor of Dong.

Yes but that would directly interfere with the game's decision to put Huang Shao there. Historically the Yellow Turbans were long defeated and were irrelevant by the time of 190 AD but hey that's not what CA thinks.

Cai_Yun

If I recall, Liu Chong has mostly been forgotten in history since he died almost immediately following the YTR. It's hard to say where exactly his historical base was. I know he was adapted out of the RTK novels, which says a lot about his impact.