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Proving Grounds Beta

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  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 6,178
    I see the fun police is out in full force again.......The glory!


    "Yum Yum"
  • AmonkhetAmonkhet Registered Users Posts: 6,880
    edited March 2020

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    The more I play PG, the more I'm convinced its entirely built to favour certain good-aligned factions, greenskins and skaven.

    You are just trolling now.
    ****. Every advantage tomb kings had, has been given now to most other races. Same for Vampire Coast. Only Vampire Counts benefits slightly through free skeleton warriors/zombies with no army limit.

    Go skaven, you'll field more units faster, more armies, with better gear and items, better 'coves' and far superior firepower and frontlines. You'll even have a better economy.

    The advantage playing as tomb kings was supposed to have (as much as playing as any faction's advantage) was meant to be free units and easier access to magic items. Other factions can now outnumber Tomb Kings and can produce their own cheaper, easier to access and just as good magic items.

    Until TK get a redesign to be in-line with other factions in PG and until Coast's economy is brought in line to be as good as other factions through their glaring flaw, then PG seems pointless.
    So it's harder therefore it's pointless?

    Sounds good to me. My main problem with TK was how ridonkulously easy they were.
    TK weren't the easiest faction. Empire, Dwarves, Greenskins, Beastmen, Skaven, etc are all much much easier.

    Basically they are twice as slow and boring now.
    Albion would make the perfect Total War Warhammer 3 pre-order; with Hengus the Druid and Bran MacKerog as Legendary Lords.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 27,629
    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    Amonkhet said:

    The more I play PG, the more I'm convinced its entirely built to favour certain good-aligned factions, greenskins and skaven.

    You are just trolling now.
    ****. Every advantage tomb kings had, has been given now to most other races. Same for Vampire Coast. Only Vampire Counts benefits slightly through free skeleton warriors/zombies with no army limit.

    Go skaven, you'll field more units faster, more armies, with better gear and items, better 'coves' and far superior firepower and frontlines. You'll even have a better economy.

    The advantage playing as tomb kings was supposed to have (as much as playing as any faction's advantage) was meant to be free units and easier access to magic items. Other factions can now outnumber Tomb Kings and can produce their own cheaper, easier to access and just as good magic items.

    Until TK get a redesign to be in-line with other factions in PG and until Coast's economy is brought in line to be as good as other factions through their glaring flaw, then PG seems pointless.
    So it's harder therefore it's pointless?

    Sounds good to me. My main problem with TK was how ridonkulously easy they were.
    TK weren't the easiest faction. Empire, Dwarves, Greenskins, Beastmen, Skaven, etc are all much much easier.

    Basically they are twice as slow and boring now.
    I never said they were the easiest?

    When they came out I lost interest in a campaign as soon as I had my doom stack, the whole free elite armies thing makes it super easy. Free armies also makes it completely logical to doomstack.

    If they're hard now that sounds like a good time to give them another go.
    Hyped for TWW3.

    CA! Cathay has the most potential of any race in TWW by far. More A+ material to design a race from than any other. You can make Cathay the best race in TWW history. I bolieve in you!
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,138
    Amonkhet said:

    The more I play PG, the more I'm convinced its entirely built to favour certain good-aligned factions, greenskins and skaven.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight it favors doubling the costs of crappy units for factions with already bad economies...

    How in the world do you plan to justify the belief that it favors Greenskins and Skaven?

    Have you even played them?

    It favors Skarsnik right now in the early and mid game, so I'll grant you that, that's about it though. In the end it's still goblins v phoenix guard and shades n what not... lol.

    As for good factions... that's been that way for a couple of patches now. Ordertide has been a thing for months.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945
    edited March 2020

    It's Warhammer. If you want to turn a character into a combat god you should be able to. That's half the appeal of the setting.

    That's utter bull. On the TT if you fielded a "combat god" level character you paid for it heavily by having to make do with a much smaller army at the same time.

    Until this is in some way implemented here, I have no interested in "combat gods" whatsoever, they just further serve to cheapen the experience.
    The lore is full of characters who essentially solo armies themselves.

    The Sword of Khaine is basically one big "Use this to make your character OP" button. If you're talking "Optimal" the most optimal thing to do is download cheats and auto-win. If you do that though you can't blame the game for allowing you to cheat, you've got to blame yourself for cheating. This is similar; if using the big red "Make my character overpowered" button isn't fun then at some point that's on you.
    Even Aenarion with the sword of Khaine couldnt solo a single chaos doomstack. He dueled (with the sword of khaine and on a dragon) greater daemons (1v1). That was his limit.

    That Tyrion can solo 4 stacks of chosen, chaos knights, aspiring champions etc led by Kholek, Archaon, Sigvald and a Lord of Change is so lorebreaking it is nothing but a travesty.

    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • KatechonKatechon Registered Users Posts: 10
    Very mixed feelings about proving grounds so far.

    Played all major factions except tomb kings on vh difficulty (100-200 turns).

    Firstly, i would like to say that i love new campaign balance. Its not only about that ordertide is over, but now you can get a lot of diffrent outcomes, which is at it should be. For example, in diffrent campaigns i have seen dwarfs being totally wiped out by greenskins or becoming a powerhouse, same for dark elves or even Lothern. Finally, Reikland is no longer becoming a major power every campaign and rolfstomping everyone, same for Couronne. Vampires AI are way more agressive, but they are far from being too powerful (as it was in the past).

    So this is a huge positive thing for me. But i dont know if its really tied to proving grounds as a presented idea of how campaign should work. What i mean is, those balance changes could be implemented with keeping supply lines and its economy.

    So now about things i dont like - and this is the whole idea of "slower" campaign or in other words - "everything costs a lot more."

    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).



  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565
    edited March 2020
    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.

  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.

  • BlacksphemyBlacksphemy Registered Users Posts: 589

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    I for sure claim to be part of the group that exerted the pressure necessary for CA to start looking deeper into campaign balance. Do you think if everyone had sung the praises of TWWH and acted as if everything was OK that would have happened?

    Also, I read "balance and unpredictability of the game has improved" and then feel the urgent need to remind you of the goddamn ORDERTIDE that's in full swing in vanilla. Even CA's simulations tell them that order factions have a 100% chance of winning the campaign by turn 300. It's solely the player's actions that make any difference, but it also means playing any order faction is pointless. Unpredictability my shoe.

  • BlacksphemyBlacksphemy Registered Users Posts: 589

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    I for sure claim to be part of the group that exerted the pressure necessary for CA to start looking deeper into campaign balance. Do you think if everyone had sung the praises of TWWH and acted as if everything was OK that would have happened?

    Also, I read "balance and unpredictability of the game has improved" and then feel the urgent need to remind you of the goddamn ORDERTIDE that's in full swing in vanilla. Even CA's simulations tell them that order factions have a 100% chance of winning the campaign by turn 300. It's solely the player's actions that make any difference, but it also means playing any order faction is pointless. Unpredictability my shoe.
    I recommend under armour shoes like mine as they are quite predictably excellent but I apologize that I wasn't quite clear before: PG is an improvement over vanilla in large part because it ends ordertide not that vanilla is better currently or more unpredictable. And no, as a parent and a professional I'll tell you that's complaints and moaning make me only slightly more likely to act. Well thought out and clear requests made by pleasant reasonable people are much more likely to make me act, and leaves everyone feeling better at the end of the day.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Lol WHTW is the best total war game by far.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    We dont know that any PG change will go live.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Lol WHTW is the best total war game by far.
    Until they fix the campaign layer it's not even close.

  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945
    edited March 2020

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Lol WHTW is the best total war game by far.
    Until they fix the campaign layer it's not even close.
    Well guess the joke is on you then for spending time on boring and lame game. The rest of us are having a blast! Best TW ever!!
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Lol WHTW is the best total war game by far.
    Until they fix the campaign layer it's not even close.
    Well guess the joke is on you then for spending time on boring and lame game. The rest of us are having a blast! Best TW ever!!
    Ah, so you're a whale. Thankfully there are people who are not so easily entertained and who pressure CA into improving the game.

  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945
    edited March 2020

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Lol WHTW is the best total war game by far.
    Until they fix the campaign layer it's not even close.
    Well guess the joke is on you then for spending time on boring and lame game. The rest of us are having a blast! Best TW ever!!
    Ah, so you're a whale. Thankfully there are people who are not so easily entertained and who pressure CA into improving the game.
    You sound completely delusional. You havent pressured CA into anything!
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • MikhaelHMikhaelH Member Registered Users Posts: 174
    Well guess the joke is on you then for spending time on boring and lame game. The rest of us are having a blast! Best TW ever!!


    TWWH2 is the best tw ever... sure. But has an atrociously imbalanced campaign atm and a rather shallow design objective. These can both be true.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 10,945
    ksh said:

    Well guess the joke is on you then for spending time on boring and lame game. The rest of us are having a blast! Best TW ever!!


    TWWH2 is the best tw ever... sure. But has an atrociously imbalanced campaign atm and a rather shallow design objective. These can both be true.
    Couldnt agree more!
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Lol WHTW is the best total war game by far.
    Until they fix the campaign layer it's not even close.
    Well guess the joke is on you then for spending time on boring and lame game. The rest of us are having a blast! Best TW ever!!
    Ah, so you're a whale. Thankfully there are people who are not so easily entertained and who pressure CA into improving the game.
    You sound completely delusional. You havent pressured CA into anything!
    Learn to read.

  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 13,138
    Why do 90% of threads wind up in people fighting either VanillaGorilla or Emphraim Dalton?
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 27,629

    It's Warhammer. If you want to turn a character into a combat god you should be able to. That's half the appeal of the setting.

    That's utter bull. On the TT if you fielded a "combat god" level character you paid for it heavily by having to make do with a much smaller army at the same time.

    Until this is in some way implemented here, I have no interested in "combat gods" whatsoever, they just further serve to cheapen the experience.
    The lore is full of characters who essentially solo armies themselves.

    The Sword of Khaine is basically one big "Use this to make your character OP" button. If you're talking "Optimal" the most optimal thing to do is download cheats and auto-win. If you do that though you can't blame the game for allowing you to cheat, you've got to blame yourself for cheating. This is similar; if using the big red "Make my character overpowered" button isn't fun then at some point that's on you.
    Even Aenarion with the sword of Khaine couldnt solo a single chaos doomstack. He dueled (with the sword of khaine and on a dragon) greater daemons (1v1). That was his limit.

    That Tyrion can solo 4 stacks of chosen, chaos knights, aspiring champions etc led by Kholek, Archaon, Sigvald and a Lord of Change is so lorebreaking it is nothing but a travesty.

    Then you've got Grimgor who solos everything. Hell, every battle in Warhammer is won by the army leader killing the other army leader. It's a big, giant "make my character OP" button. All you have to do to not have an OP character is simply not actively make them one.
    Hyped for TWW3.

    CA! Cathay has the most potential of any race in TWW by far. More A+ material to design a race from than any other. You can make Cathay the best race in TWW history. I bolieve in you!
  • BlacksphemyBlacksphemy Registered Users Posts: 589

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    We dont know that any PG change will go live.
    Agreed but that's why I said I enjoyed both. Sure hope PG gets at least a mod outta all of this at minimum.
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565
    edited March 2020

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    We dont know that any PG change will go live.
    Agreed but that's why I said I enjoyed both. Sure hope PG gets at least a mod outta all of this at minimum.
    PG should be the base to develop the game from and vanilla should be discarded as the rubbish it is.
    Itharus said:

    Why do 90% of threads wind up in people fighting either VanillaGorilla or Emphraim Dalton?

    Because I'm sexy.

  • BlacksphemyBlacksphemy Registered Users Posts: 589

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    We dont know that any PG change will go live.
    Agreed but that's why I said I enjoyed both. Sure hope PG gets at least a mod outta all of this at minimum.
    PG should be the base to develop the game from and vanilla should be discarded as the rubbish it is.
    Itharus said:

    Why do 90% of threads wind up in people fighting either VanillaGorilla or Emphraim Dalton?

    Because I'm sexy.
    That's a nice opinion you have there. Thanks for sharing. See as a developer I wouldn't want to implement those changes just because it would be a thumb in your eye. Thankfully I'll be happy with whatever changes CA decides on and will continue to offer them my constructive feedback and money
  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 32,565

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    We dont know that any PG change will go live.
    Agreed but that's why I said I enjoyed both. Sure hope PG gets at least a mod outta all of this at minimum.
    PG should be the base to develop the game from and vanilla should be discarded as the rubbish it is.
    Itharus said:

    Why do 90% of threads wind up in people fighting either VanillaGorilla or Emphraim Dalton?

    Because I'm sexy.
    That's a nice opinion you have there. Thanks for sharing. See as a developer I wouldn't want to implement those changes just because it would be a thumb in your eye. Thankfully I'll be happy with whatever changes CA decides on and will continue to offer them my constructive feedback and money
    Offended?

  • BlacksphemyBlacksphemy Registered Users Posts: 589

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    We dont know that any PG change will go live.
    Agreed but that's why I said I enjoyed both. Sure hope PG gets at least a mod outta all of this at minimum.
    PG should be the base to develop the game from and vanilla should be discarded as the rubbish it is.
    Itharus said:

    Why do 90% of threads wind up in people fighting either VanillaGorilla or Emphraim Dalton?

    Because I'm sexy.
    That's a nice opinion you have there. Thanks for sharing. See as a developer I wouldn't want to implement those changes just because it would be a thumb in your eye. Thankfully I'll be happy with whatever changes CA decides on and will continue to offer them my constructive feedback and money
    Offended?

    Katechon said:


    All that thing does, it makes a start of campaign a very unpleasant experience. I said unpleasant, because i dont consider it harder. It just forces you to sit at your arse a lot of time during early game, building your economy and armies for very long time. But after you reach a point when your economy starts running, game becomes very easy as you can afford spamming armies. For certain factions that moment happens in diffrent time, for some very quickly - like vampires or skaven (those factions i believe benefit the most from removing supply lines).

    Basically what proving grounds does, it make start of campaing wary more harder/frustrating/unpleasant (whatever you call it) and mid/late game far easier. In my opinion it should be exactly opposite. I dont know if supply lines should stay or not, but certainly i dont agree that making everything cost way more is a solution, because its only an issue in the early game.

    Honestly what i would rather see is keeping old prices for units and buildings, maybe reduce supply lines punishment for certain factions like HE, dwarfs and empire and remove it from skaven, vampire counts, greenskins. And for the love of God, bring a limit of elite units you can recruit for every faction, not only for tomb kings. Because proving grounds absolutely fails at fighting doomstacks as a way to go (it only forces you to use low tier units for a longer time).

    And of course whatever you finally do, please keep campaign factions balance from proving grounds, because one from vanilla makes it unplayable (ordertide).

    And I repeat, that's only because people have picked up bad habits and expectations from vanilla. In vanilla you can quickly build up and attack anyone at your own leisure with an army build of your choice. The game totally surrenders the intiative to the player after the first few turns and never makes any effort to take it back. And that's also why vanilla is so terribly boring and lame.

    PG is only slow if you play it with that same expectation. If you think you are entitled to attack enemies with no risk, then you'll do a whole lot of sitting in your home province because PG makes that the costlier choice, just as it should be.
    Why do you play and visit a forum for a game that is boring and lame?

    Vanilla is, despite deserved critisism for gameplay stuff that make all difficulties to easy, a fantastic game. Easily one of the best games ever made.

    If CA walked away today and left everything as is (that would be bad) then the gane would still be beyond amazing.

    If you truly think it is boring then boy are you wasting your time.
    If I and others had not complained, would we have gotten PG?

    No, if CA walked away today the game would still have the worst campaign layer in the entire TW series. I can only stomach vanilla with a dozen mods and I'd rather not have it remain that way.
    Nice to see you claim credit for an innovation that CA made to their game after listening to the collective voice of their players. I gather that they tend to take complaints with a grain of salt but they seem to give reasonable constructive criticism a fair shake while also protecting their bottom line, as they should.

    I agree that PG is an improvement but I wouldn't shed a tear if they left the game as is and just managed to balance ordertide. As several others have noticed, the balance and unpredictability of the game has improved and I'm loving having many different end game threats from various coalitions or empires
    We dont know that any PG change will go live.
    Agreed but that's why I said I enjoyed both. Sure hope PG gets at least a mod outta all of this at minimum.
    PG should be the base to develop the game from and vanilla should be discarded as the rubbish it is.
    Itharus said:

    Why do 90% of threads wind up in people fighting either VanillaGorilla or Emphraim Dalton?

    Because I'm sexy.
    That's a nice opinion you have there. Thanks for sharing. See as a developer I wouldn't want to implement those changes just because it would be a thumb in your eye. Thankfully I'll be happy with whatever changes CA decides on and will continue to offer them my constructive feedback and money
    Offended?
    Bemused. Bemused that someone can play this game and read every thread on this site and complain so often... and still call it rubbish. I love PG, but I'll still spend hours on this game if they go back to vanilla and be quite content with the investment I've made so far
  • MinotauroneMinotaurone Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 145
    Started a coop campaign, will i lost my campaign coop ehen beta ends ?
  • MinotauroneMinotaurone Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 145
    Oh Border Princes faction rebels banner is not textured
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