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Next Historical Total war Medieval 3?

virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 67
I would love to see a medieval 3 for the next historical TW game. Perhaps it would be best to start a bit earlier and end earlier? gunpowder really does not fit the period and ruined med 2 for me.
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  • jamreal18jamreal18 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 8,671

    I would love to see a medieval 3 for the next historical TW game. Perhaps it would be best to start a bit earlier and end earlier? gunpowder really does not fit the period and ruined med 2 for me.

    CA can make it High Middle Age.

    They will make Early and Late Middle Age as Chapter Packs though.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 4,489
    If we get Med3, the map should go from
    Europe to Asia and focus on the Mongolian Expansion around 1200y

    I would also like to see a game around 1500 focusing on the age of exploration.

    Pike&Shot would also be nice.


    My wishlist for the next 20 years of total war games in the following order:

    1. Med3:
    1200 and EU + North Africa + Asia

    2. Age of Exploration:
    EU + North Africa + Asia + America. Conquistadors and Meso-American Cultures.

    3. Pike&Shot:
    1600 and a very detailed map of Europe. Could also be a Saga Game focusing just on the Holy Roman Empire.

    4. Victoria/Bismarck:
    1800 and the entire world as a campaign map.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,018
    Gun powder does fit the era because gunpowder units existed in that era. I think there's little chance they'll limit unit types.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 67
    To me the warfare is what is vital. Gunpowder is a drastic change in warfare so A good stopping point.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,259

    To me the warfare is what is vital. Gunpowder is a drastic change in warfare so A good stopping point.

    Would mean it has to end well before 1260 then, as that seems to be when the first gun powder units would be hitting the field.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,018
    Indeed, gunpowder helped to bring the 100 year war to a close.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 4,489

    To me the warfare is what is vital. Gunpowder is a drastic change in warfare so A good stopping point.

    Gunpowder warfare is super fun in total war games.
    - Empire
    - Napoleon
    - FotS
    - Vampire Coast
    - The Empire
    - Dwarfs

  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,163
    I still play TW Empire, warts, bugs and all.

    I would love to see another Guns and Powder game, preferably based on 1800s through the entire Victoria era. Multiple maps, and the transition from one to the other like Empire did.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • LighthopeLighthope Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 6
    dge1 said:

    I would love to see another Guns and Powder game, preferably based on 1800s through the entire Victoria era. Multiple maps, and the transition from one to the other like Empire did.

    We can do that later or maybe even as an addon.

    But Medieval III first please. We've done enough Asia and Rome. Time to go back to the best period: Medieval.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,018
    Lighthope said:

    dge1 said:

    I would love to see another Guns and Powder game, preferably based on 1800s through the entire Victoria era. Multiple maps, and the transition from one to the other like Empire did.

    We can do that later or maybe even as an addon.

    But Medieval III first please. We've done enough Asia and Rome. Time to go back to the best period: Medieval.
    tbf we've had 2 medieval games and ToB pushed into the early medieval period. Also when you say Asia we've had 2 from Japan and 1 from China which look totally different. Rome's had 2 games as well.

    I honestly think the next historical game should go somewhere we haven't seen (Bronze Age) or do new tech like the Victorian period. FotS touched on in slightly but didn't really show off the full range of Victorian combat.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,661
    dge1 said:

    I still play TW Empire, warts, bugs and all.

    I would love to see another Guns and Powder game, preferably based on 1800s through the entire Victoria era. Multiple maps, and the transition from one to the other like Empire did.

    there is "Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail" which plays in the 18th century and has both land and navy battles in early access on steam, maybe this could be something for you.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,163
    SiWI said:

    dge1 said:

    I still play TW Empire, warts, bugs and all.

    I would love to see another Guns and Powder game, preferably based on 1800s through the entire Victoria era. Multiple maps, and the transition from one to the other like Empire did.

    there is "Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail" which plays in the 18th century and has both land and navy battles in early access on steam, maybe this could be something for you.
    Thanks. I'll certainly check it out.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • TheGreatPamphletTheGreatPamphlet Registered Users Posts: 239
    I'm not sure if we will ever see a traditional historical game. In Three Kingdoms Romance is certainly the protagonist, while in Troy there's not even the option to switch into a more historical mode. You will be forced to play with supernaturally strong heroes and singe-entity units no matter what. In the past, I'd say that M3 is the likeliest candidate, but now I am not so sure...
    Nestor.

    Allah, Suriya, Bashar w Bas!
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 4,489

    I'm not sure if we will ever see a traditional historical game. In Three Kingdoms Romance is certainly the protagonist, while in Troy there's not even the option to switch into a more historical mode. You will be forced to play with supernaturally strong heroes and singe-entity units no matter what. In the past, I'd say that M3 is the likeliest candidate, but now I am not so sure...

    Because it made sense for those 2 settings to go that way. Both are based on Novels and are highly romantic.
    There is no historical foundation to ever create a realistic game about Troy. This whole conflict maybe never happened at all.

    For any other historic era, such a hero based system doesn’t make sense.

    Just imagine a TW game with Napoleon or King Lionheart fighting like superheroes.... ridiculous.

    The next historic titles, may it be Med3, Pike&Shot or Victoria will definitely be classic TW games again because they are based on historic sources and events.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,661
    ArneSo said:

    I'm not sure if we will ever see a traditional historical game. In Three Kingdoms Romance is certainly the protagonist, while in Troy there's not even the option to switch into a more historical mode. You will be forced to play with supernaturally strong heroes and singe-entity units no matter what. In the past, I'd say that M3 is the likeliest candidate, but now I am not so sure...

    Because it made sense for those 2 settings to go that way. Both are based on Novels and are highly romantic.
    There is no historical foundation to ever create a realistic game about Troy. This whole conflict maybe never happened at all.

    For any other historic era, such a hero based system doesn’t make sense.

    Just imagine a TW game with Napoleon or King Lionheart fighting like superheroes.... ridiculous.

    The next historic titles, may it be Med3, Pike&Shot or Victoria will definitely be classic TW games again because they are based on historic sources and events.
    Well in TW Napoleon certain Generals were immortal (Napoleon among them) and had special abilities...

    In fact in the M2 Addon Kingdoms in the Crusade Campaign (the crusade in the middle east not the Teutonic campaign) certain rules had special abilities (weren't immortal thou).


    Thou when M3 comes (and given how popular M2 was and how old it is M3 is likely) I would suspect that characters will play a role in soem ways, but not to a extend that WH or 3K has.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,259
    The 3K character driven mechanics could add depth to a M3. The oaths were a big part of the kingdoms and building power did require managing the nobles and such. So a combination of that and some of the ToB elements could be brought together for it.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,018
    I think any game must almost piggy back on pre-existing emotional content. I know a lot of the guys from the US loved the way Empire was aligned with the film The Patriot.

    I think it's really difficult for CA now, they have to work extra hard to bring a pure historical game up to the mechanics and variation of a fantasy game.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,661
    Commisar said:

    The 3K character driven mechanics could add depth to a M3. The oaths were a big part of the kingdoms and building power did require managing the nobles and such. So a combination of that and some of the ToB elements could be brought together for it.

    I think 3K mechanic which binds the sublord with his troops could represent feudalism relative well.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • TheGreatPamphletTheGreatPamphlet Registered Users Posts: 239
    ArneSo said:

    I'm not sure if we will ever see a traditional historical game. In Three Kingdoms Romance is certainly the protagonist, while in Troy there's not even the option to switch into a more historical mode. You will be forced to play with supernaturally strong heroes and singe-entity units no matter what. In the past, I'd say that M3 is the likeliest candidate, but now I am not so sure...

    Because it made sense for those 2 settings to go that way. Both are based on Novels and are highly romantic.
    There is no historical foundation to ever create a realistic game about Troy. This whole conflict maybe never happened at all.

    For any other historic era, such a hero based system doesn’t make sense.

    Just imagine a TW game with Napoleon or King Lionheart fighting like superheroes.... ridiculous.

    The next historic titles, may it be Med3, Pike&Shot or Victoria will definitely be classic TW games again because they are based on historic sources and events.
    Right, you kind of missed the point. Fantasy seems more profitable, so that's probably the direction CA is heading towards. Medieval theme will have to either adapt or get ditched completely.
    Nestor.

    Allah, Suriya, Bashar w Bas!
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,259


    Right, you kind of missed the point. Fantasy seems more profitable, so that's probably the direction CA is heading towards. Medieval theme will have to either adapt or get ditched completely.

    They can do both and get the profits from both communities which they are doing.
  • TheGreatPamphletTheGreatPamphlet Registered Users Posts: 239
    Commisar said:


    Right, you kind of missed the point. Fantasy seems more profitable, so that's probably the direction CA is heading towards. Medieval theme will have to either adapt or get ditched completely.

    They can do both and get the profits from both communities which they are doing.
    They can, but they won't, because every large company like Sega aims at maximum profit, so they will focus exclusively on the most lucrative approach. Traditionally defined historical titles seem very unlikely in the foreseeable future.
    Nestor.

    Allah, Suriya, Bashar w Bas!
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,163

    Commisar said:


    Right, you kind of missed the point. Fantasy seems more profitable, so that's probably the direction CA is heading towards. Medieval theme will have to either adapt or get ditched completely.

    They can do both and get the profits from both communities which they are doing.
    They can, but they won't, because every large company like Sega aims at maximum profit, so they will focus exclusively on the most lucrative approach. Traditionally defined historical titles seem very unlikely in the foreseeable future.
    I disagree. It may be a year or two but I firmly believe we'll see something along the classical historical lines, even if overburdened with some of the latest game BS.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 4,489

    ArneSo said:

    I'm not sure if we will ever see a traditional historical game. In Three Kingdoms Romance is certainly the protagonist, while in Troy there's not even the option to switch into a more historical mode. You will be forced to play with supernaturally strong heroes and singe-entity units no matter what. In the past, I'd say that M3 is the likeliest candidate, but now I am not so sure...

    Because it made sense for those 2 settings to go that way. Both are based on Novels and are highly romantic.
    There is no historical foundation to ever create a realistic game about Troy. This whole conflict maybe never happened at all.

    For any other historic era, such a hero based system doesn’t make sense.

    Just imagine a TW game with Napoleon or King Lionheart fighting like superheroes.... ridiculous.

    The next historic titles, may it be Med3, Pike&Shot or Victoria will definitely be classic TW games again because they are based on historic sources and events.
    Right, you kind of missed the point. Fantasy seems more profitable, so that's probably the direction CA is heading towards. Medieval theme will have to either adapt or get ditched completely.
    I think the huge advantage of future historic titles will be a massive scale and giant campaign map.

    Another medieval title only in Europe? Boring!
    But a medieval title that combines Europe and Asia? That would be awesome and would also offer enough diversity.

    The player could choose to play England, France, the HRE, the Islamic Khalifes or he chooses to play Mongolians, China or the Khmer.

    This should be the next step for historic titles.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,259


    They can, but they won't, because every large company like Sega aims at maximum profit, so they will focus exclusively on the most lucrative approach. Traditionally defined historical titles seem very unlikely in the foreseeable future.

    Except they already have. ToB didn't call to the Fantasy group. And I don't see Troy being a big draw to them either, not seeing it be a huge draw to the History group either tbh. Companies don't like shooting themselves in the foot and removing sources of income for no reason.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,018

    Commisar said:


    Right, you kind of missed the point. Fantasy seems more profitable, so that's probably the direction CA is heading towards. Medieval theme will have to either adapt or get ditched completely.

    They can do both and get the profits from both communities which they are doing.
    They can, but they won't, because every large company like Sega aims at maximum profit, so they will focus exclusively on the most lucrative approach. Traditionally defined historical titles seem very unlikely in the foreseeable future.
    Not likely, as there are clearly those who like historical and those who like fantasy. If CA just drop one group then they're losing part of their player-ship. Not forgetting that 3K is the bestselling TW game of all time., there's little chance of CA dropping historical.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,661
    Commisar said:


    They can, but they won't, because every large company like Sega aims at maximum profit, so they will focus exclusively on the most lucrative approach. Traditionally defined historical titles seem very unlikely in the foreseeable future.

    Except they already have. ToB didn't call to the Fantasy group. And I don't see Troy being a big draw to them either, not seeing it be a huge draw to the History group either tbh. Companies don't like shooting themselves in the foot and removing sources of income for no reason.
    I think the problem is simply that there is "too much TW" out there and supported at the moment.

    I mean why should I buy TW Troy when I'm not really "finished" with TW WH2 (neither is CA finished with WH2)?
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,018
    SiWI said:

    Commisar said:


    They can, but they won't, because every large company like Sega aims at maximum profit, so they will focus exclusively on the most lucrative approach. Traditionally defined historical titles seem very unlikely in the foreseeable future.

    Except they already have. ToB didn't call to the Fantasy group. And I don't see Troy being a big draw to them either, not seeing it be a huge draw to the History group either tbh. Companies don't like shooting themselves in the foot and removing sources of income for no reason.
    I think the problem is simply that there is "too much TW" out there and supported at the moment.

    I mean why should I buy TW Troy when I'm not really "finished" with TW WH2 (neither is CA finished with WH2)?
    It's a different style of game, I mean I'm sure there are people who bought both 3K and WH2. If I fancy a change from WH2 I play 3K (more Doom Eternal at the moment though) and I may fancy a change found in Troy. Everyone's different and I'm sure CA know what they're doing.
  • CommisarCommisar Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,259
    SiWI said:

    I think the problem is simply that there is "too much TW" out there and supported at the moment.

    I mean why should I buy TW Troy when I'm not really "finished" with TW WH2 (neither is CA finished with WH2)?

    True, I currently have 7 TW games installed...and I haven't played one in at least a month lol but even with them if they did announce an M3 coming out next year I'd buy it due to interest in the setting. I think that's the selling point, if it's a different focus it can still be enjoyed along side other TW games.

    That said I don't have any interest in Troy, the resource mechanic sounds interesting but everything else and the setting don't interest me so I'll skip it.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 67
    ArneSo said:

    To me the warfare is what is vital. Gunpowder is a drastic change in warfare so A good stopping point.

    Gunpowder warfare is super fun in total war games.
    - Empire
    - Napoleon
    - FotS
    - Vampire Coast
    - The Empire
    - Dwarfs

    I like gunpowder [i would love an American civil war] I just dont like it mixed in with knights and castles.
  • virginia1861virginia1861 Registered Users Posts: 67

    ArneSo said:

    I'm not sure if we will ever see a traditional historical game. In Three Kingdoms Romance is certainly the protagonist, while in Troy there's not even the option to switch into a more historical mode. You will be forced to play with supernaturally strong heroes and singe-entity units no matter what. In the past, I'd say that M3 is the likeliest candidate, but now I am not so sure...

    Because it made sense for those 2 settings to go that way. Both are based on Novels and are highly romantic.
    There is no historical foundation to ever create a realistic game about Troy. This whole conflict maybe never happened at all.

    For any other historic era, such a hero based system doesn’t make sense.

    Just imagine a TW game with Napoleon or King Lionheart fighting like superheroes.... ridiculous.

    The next historic titles, may it be Med3, Pike&Shot or Victoria will definitely be classic TW games again because they are based on historic sources and events.
    Right, you kind of missed the point. Fantasy seems more profitable, so that's probably the direction CA is heading towards. Medieval theme will have to either adapt or get ditched completely.
    if fantasy be what they do, let it be lord of the rings.
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