Why noone talks about Wood Elves?

Guillermidas#6283

I'm not sure if CA already spoke about this subject, but I really think Wood Elves deserve some love regarding starting position and Legendary Lord amount.

From what I read in this forum, almost noone talks about this race which is pretty well done in my opinion.
They already have a strong army composition with I think almost all if not all units from Table Top.

But what it really lacks is LL's and possibly a pure Magic user caster Lord like High Elves still need.

I think this should really be done as FLC since it will only be a new faction starting far from Athel Loren.

Best options are Ariel and Sisters of Twilight, Naestra and Arahan.

Personally, I'd rather have the sisters:
-Ariel is very similar to Alarielle, even in name XD

-Sisters can be made as new interesting mechanic since they are two heroes in one model.
Maybe they could choose to mount in horse (separately), eagle (together) and dragon (together).

Your opinions?

Erathil#3988

Wood Elves are a perennial topic of conversation.

The big gist, and I agree whole-heatedly with this, is that they have an excellent army roster and just, the absolute worst campaign mechanics. The amber mechanic was restrictive in the first game, but balanced by a unique ability to colonize any settlement. The balance of power has swung so far in the opposite direction that their whole campaign gameplay is nightmarish.

I do hope we get more Legendary Lords, and Ariel and the Sisters of Twilight are top on my list.

Sir_Godspeed#8395

People bring up Wood Elves on a regular basis, but it's been years by now, and there's a limit to how many times you can repeat the same topic over and over again.

Nyumus

People bring WE constantly, but they have the same problem that BM have: they are a DLC faction. This makes It hard to makes a DLC for DLC, wich could bê Very messy If done poorly.

Bies#4376

Ariel por favor

WhySoSalty#3990

lucibuis is talking about them non-stop. thats enough. other WE fans like me are just patient

SeanJeanquoi#3490

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

Sir_Godspeed#8395

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Mogwai_Man#4978

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They aren't "broken". Neither is Bretonnia or any faction for that matter. The issue is their campaign is outdated but the roster is good.

Captain_Rex#1635

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

summertimelovin#4461

Wood Elf topics pop up often enough in the forum. You're pretty spot on about them basically having full roster and lacking only lords and maybe heroes. They do need a rework but we'll just have to wait for what CA has in store for them.

I'd like to see Ariel represented as some kind of mechanic for maintaining the Oak of Ages (maybe a summon). The Sisters are definitely a unique concept for the game but I kind of really want to see Scarloc.

Mogwai_Man#4978

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

RikRiorik#9890

I’d want an interesting Lord option than doesn’t feel like the rest of the Welf selection. Spellsinger Lords and then a fair few Forest Spirit units. Not sure what there would be to pick from.

I’ve always sympathized with Coeddil and Drycha but that’d be perhaps a bit too much like Durthu.

SeanJeanquoi#3490

@Mogwai_Man @Sir_Godspeed

and just how many wood elf campaigns have you two been playing recently?

I really hate it when people look at rosters from a purely utilitarian perspective even though they also don't play multiplayer, meaning that's a useless assessment.

Their rosters aren't "broken" but they're a hollow joke compared to the others. They are so lacking in variety and units with niches that it's crazy and they become more and more obsolete with every LP.

Wood Elves used to be a top tier multiplayer faction, but since the last few LP's they've dropped down to the middle of the pack (and will only fall further) Bretonnia has been the weakest in multiplayer for a long time and that divide is only getting worse.

Wood Elves only have around 12 units total! With their complete roster (including generic heroes and lords) coming up to 18...as opposed to the 30-40 which is standard for every other faction (even Vampire Coast).

Wood Elves and Beastmen have 18, Bretonnia has 24. Things will only worsen for them until they're updated.

Mogwai_Man#4978

SeanJeanquoi said:

@Mogwai_Man @Sir_Godspeed

and just how many wood elf campaigns have you two been playing recently?

I really hate it when people look at rosters from a purely utilitarian perspective even though they also don't play multiplayer, meaning that's a useless assessment.

Their rosters aren't "broken" but they're a hollow joke compared to the others. They are so lacking in variety and units with niches that it's crazy and they become more and more obsolete with every LP.

Wood Elves used to be a top tier multiplayer faction, but since the last few LP's they've dropped down to the middle of the pack (and will only fall further) Bretonnia has been the weakest in multiplayer for a long time and that divide is only getting worse.

Wood Elves only have around 12 units total! With their complete roster (including generic heroes and lords) coming up to 18...as opposed to the 30-40 which is standard for every other faction (even Vampire Coast).

Wood Elves and Beastmen have 18, Bretonnia has 24. Things will only worsen for them until they're updated.

The campaign always sucked and hasn't changed. But it still features insane buffs, it is due for an update though considering how awful the amber mechanic is.

The roster is actually 9/10 complete.

They aren't bad in MP, but they are harder to play with.

Captain_Rex#1635

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

Mogwai_Man#4978

ArneSo said:

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber as a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

That isn't "broken" though, it's outdated.

Nyxilis#3646

Wood elves do not suffer glaring holes in their roster compare to even some TW2 armies who are usually more complete.

The roster is strong when on the battlefields for single player or multiplayer.

They have strong autoresolve values.

They got their more popular LLs already.

They are not broken even though the amber mechanic is lackluster and absolutely needs cleaning up but they are perfectly winnable. Just go watch any number of known this campaigns from normal on up.

Thus most people tend to agree here they could use a rework but not as much or direly so as the worst from game one. And they could use some more ll and the disagreements come there but honestly it mostly comes down to the majority seeming to want the siblings and a very very very very vocal few who want ze moth. But compared to the cries of people who meant another HE lord, thanquol, or whom previously want Malus or Gorrok the volume isn't there.

But the topics boil down to more of the same faster and more often. All agree a rework should happen, but who knows when and at some point people come in and say, but yeah BM should be.first. Hue hue hue.

Sir_Godspeed#8395

ArneSo said:

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

It's disturbing how some of those points also describe Nakai.

Captain_Rex#1635

Sir_Godspeed said:

ArneSo said:

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

It's disturbing how some of those points also describe Nakai.

Nakais vassal has proper Temples and not secret little hideouts and these temples are well defended and even have walls with a strong garrison. As Nakai you don’t have to babysit them, you just have to lookfor them from time to time.

In my 2 Nakai campaigns I never had real problems to keep my vassal alive. I maybe lost 5 of his temples in total and that didn’t had any big impact because I was already swinging in money.

As Nakai you can and should also use the other LM factions as a natural Defense for your vassal.

WE outposts are more vulnerable and kissing 1 single of them already can have a giant impact of your Amber goes negative. You can go from +6k to -2k within one turn if you are really unlucky. That can completely destroy your campaign and doesn’t make sense.

If outposts would work like pirate coves WE would be super fun and play more like the Vampire Coast on Land. A very very entertaining playstyle that fits perfect for the WE. Their campaign should be a big Wild Hunt where you travel around the world to defeat your enemies.

Neodeinos#5871

ArneSo said:

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

I'm ignoring my outposts and always play very agressively with the WE and yet it works very well. Outposts is not the only source of Amber so it's fine, the campaign is definitely outdated but it's not broken.

Draxynnic#3149

Definitely up for a rework, yes. Question is when.

Expanding the non-character part of the roster is difficult because it always was a pretty focused roster. There are a few units from earlier editions which could theoretically be brought back, although GW might say that those units were removed for a reason.

Captain_Rex#1635

neodeinos said:

ArneSo said:

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

I'm ignoring my outposts and always play very agressively with the WE and yet it works very well. Outposts is not the only source of Amber so it's fine, the campaign is definitely outdated but it's not broken.

Having outposts as normal settlements is still wrong. It worked back in WH1 because there was no better way to implement them, but since we have pirate coves and Under Cities there is a better way to represent them.

WE don’t occupy foreign Cities, they establish little hideouts in the trees nearby a settlement to see what’s going on. That’s what those outposts tried to represent in WH1.

They should be a semi horde faction like Norsca with a core territory and the rest as hidden outposts.

Neodeinos#5871

ArneSo said:

neodeinos said:

ArneSo said:

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

I'm ignoring my outposts and always play very agressively with the WE and yet it works very well. Outposts is not the only source of Amber so it's fine, the campaign is definitely outdated but it's not broken.

Having outposts as normal settlements is still wrong. It worked back in WH1 because there was no better way to implement them, but since we have pirate coves and Under Cities there is a better way to represent them.

WE don’t occupy foreign Cities, they establish little hideouts in the trees nearby a settlement to see what’s going on. That’s what those outposts tried to represent in WH1.

They should be a semi horde faction like Norsca with a core territory and the rest as hidden outposts.

That's still not broken like you pretend tho.

Djau#5149

All DLC factions at the moment are currently pretty outdated and could do with reworks.

Draxynnic#3149

One risk with a cove system is that it might swing too far the other way and make it too hard for the AI to hurt a WE player. One possible approach could be to make it so that certain factions (BM in particular, possibly Chaos factions in general) can still see the outposts and might target those cities, forcing the WEs to help defend them if they want to keep the outpost. Or the outposts might only work in cities of specific races, so you have an incentive to push back against races like greenskins and undead which are incompatible.

WhySoSalty#3990

ArneSo said:

neodeinos said:

ArneSo said:

Mogwai_Man said:

ArneSo said:

Sir_Godspeed said:

SeanJeanquoi said:

Basically everyone agrees they're broken but at the same time they aren't actually missing that much from their official roster. They never got that much attention so no one can shout from the rooftops that they want x or y unit because they don't exist. CA will have to make them up.

This is the same problem Bretonnia has.

They're not really broken, just limited and lackluster, campaign-wise.

Their mechanics are absolutely broken. They were fun back in the day but right now they are unplayable.

Outposts need to work like pirate coves. WE are an isolationistic race and no map painters that conquer Bretonnian Castles to live in towers made of stone.

Their whole campaign is pointless and lorebreaking right now.

WE living in Dwarf Karaks or Empire Giant Cities? No thank you...

That isn't broken though. The campaign design always sucked and it's outdated since it's so old but the army plays well.

- To recruit units, research tech and to upgrade the Oak you need Amber

- you get all your Amber from conquering Settlements which are just weak outposts

- you loose Amber if you loose outposts

- so you have to babysit your outposts all the time.

- what Leads to a super defensive campaign where you just run between your little outposts to defend them.

- that makes Amber a very very unreliable resource that is more annoying than actually enjoyable.


That is what I would call a broken campaign.

CA already said they don’t like how Amber work so they will obviously fix it one day.
Turning outposts into secrets hideouts (like they should be) similar to pirate coves would solve the problem.
You wouldn’t have to protect your baby outposts anymore and also not lose Amber all the time what completely destroys your economy.

Instead you could travel around the world and go on wild hunts everywhere from Naggaroth to Lustria to have a good time.
That’s how WE should be and not like they are right now.

I'm ignoring my outposts and always play very agressively with the WE and yet it works very well. Outposts is not the only source of Amber so it's fine, the campaign is definitely outdated but it's not broken.

Having outposts as normal settlements is still wrong. It worked back in WH1 because there was no better way to implement them, but since we have pirate coves and Under Cities there is a better way to represent them.

WE don’t occupy foreign Cities, they establish little hideouts in the trees nearby a settlement to see what’s going on. That’s what those outposts tried to represent in WH1.

They should be a semi horde faction like Norsca with a core territory and the rest as hidden outposts.

Seems like you are just using a wrong word. there is nothing "broken" but completely outdated and illogical. I agree that WE living in Castles and Dawi Karaks makes no sense at all.

WhySoSalty#3990

WE need a full rework

1. Amber rework
2. World root system (Maybe in order to expand the world root you need amber)
3. outposts rework (like Arne said make them like pirate coves or skaven undercities)
4. get rid of the awful office system (generals should join the wild hunt and get different boni)
5. More LL (Araloth, Ariel, Twilight Sisters are the top picks + maybe Drycha or Skaw as LH)

So quite a lot of work

Tyrant#1234

Both Beastmen and Wood Elves have been left out to dry for so long they're basically tough jerky and sultanas at this point.

SeanJeanquoi#3490

@ArneSo @Mogwai_Man @Sir_Godspeed

When people say "Broken" to describe the Wood Elves they don't mean it literally. They mean that they are so outdated that they aren't a faction anybody really plays (and when people do, its in spite of their terrible campaign and tiny roster)

You might say this is an incorrect use of the term, but the reason is that saying they're 'outdated' is not strong enough language and doesn't let you know that they are a faction that most of us avoid, even if we want to play them, because they're so bad.

This is also how I've felt about the Greenskins for a year or more. They're just too outdated for me to play them in their current state. In fact, Greenskins, Beastmen, Chaos, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, at least 1/4th of the games Races feel like they're in early access which is a shame. You can't convey that kinda frustration by simply saying 'they're a little outdated'.

And btw, Nakai is just as bad. His vassal is a train wreck and it literally feels like CA pushed out a playtest beta for Hore faction improvements and sold it to us (Again, something that you can't describe by merely saying 'its outdated).

Mogwai_Man#4978

SeanJeanquoi said:

@ArneSo @Mogwai_Man @Sir_Godspeed

When people say "Broken" to describe the Wood Elves they don't mean it literally. They mean that they are so outdated that they aren't a faction anybody really plays (and when people do, its in spite of their terrible campaign and tiny roster)

You might say this is an incorrect use of the term, but the reason is that saying they're 'outdated' is not strong enough language and doesn't let you know that they are a faction that most of us avoid, even if we want to play them, because they're so bad.

This is also how I've felt about the Greenskins for a year or more. They're just too outdated for me to play them in their current state. In fact, Greenskins, Beastmen, Chaos, Wood Elves, Bretonnia, at least 1/4th of the games Races feel like they're in early access which is a shame. You can't convey that kinda frustration by simply saying 'they're a little outdated'.

And btw, Nakai is just as bad. His vassal is a train wreck and it literally feels like CA pushed out a playtest beta for Hore faction improvements and sold it to us (Again, something that you can't describe by merely saying 'its outdated).

None of that means broken though. Also the Wood Elf roster is 9/10 finished and is actually good. None of us said "a little outdated", their campaigns are clearly outdated as they are game one factions. But they aren't broken.