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NOBODY promised 4 LLs for a preorder race in the first place. And it does not make sense either, no matter what. Norsca had two, which was the custom then anyway WoC had three if we remember rigth and will probably get more in the far away future of game#3. But Beastmen already have stocked up to three thanks to FLC early, so Norsca could too. If wanted (which obviously so far CA does not).
That brings us to "best candidate is now Dogs of War". I agree here. And we have the Tilean New World Colonies around to drop one LL there. And then can still scatter the second around the map for Vortex. In ME we can even drop one of in the New World and keep one around Tilea itself. Future FLCs could then still add more, if needed/wanted.
Also keep in mind that the Vortex & Mortal Empire map had some upgrades already. It can be done again for example the flesh out the New Colony region or just find a place in the Lustria Thunderdome again. Or the flooded Southlands. God beware we drop LLs like Grom directly on the Ulthuan coast and disturb the fragile ecosystem for the endangered species there -.-
-----Red Dox
The 4 LL are standard for WH2 and if this DLC is for WH2 then we should except this much.
Your example of Throt vs Dwarfs + DE FLC ...there is no update ,rework ....so it would be wasted LP. Beastmen, WE still would need rework and you cannot fit both into one.
Last LP didn't have a rework either if i remember correctly. This would give CA enough time to make the rework for BM and WE.
Southern Realms (they also have more than enough space on the Vortex map) Kislev Ogre Kingdom Chaos Dwarfs 4 Chaos Gods (I hope so)
Next as @SerPus said… only cause it happend once it doesn´t mean this is a rule…
This bothered me since the first DLC came out...
After the first DLCs for Warhammer I everyone was like oh after a Race Pack there will be one Lord Pack cause we had it once before?!
Please no Monogods. A LL for each god would be my choice.
Why people don´t like monogods???
Why want i 4 "races" wich core is the same and each have a few special units. Make the LL special to each God and then you have your Monogods playstyle. Ca can go the same route like with Sknick, so that you pay way more for the other gods units.
The 4 LL are standard for WH2 and if this DLC is for WH2 then we should except this much.
No. Becasue the preorder DLC ranges in the under 10€ price tag, while your 4 LL game#2 race DLC cost double. So just cut it 50% back, aka 2 LLs at least
------Red Dox
That’s why DoW should not be the preorder bonus. They have like +10 potential characters and should be a campaign pack.
Core race of game 3.
Possible yes but Kislev as the first line against Chaos fits better.
GW solely advertising Kislev at the moment is a big indicator that Kislev will be a core race.
Why not both? Game's been in development years, why not have 5 cores?
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Personally one outcome I don't see people discussing is *if* the pre-order is a race pack, it could be purely locked to ME. ME is currently locked to owners of WH1 and WH2. Say if DoW are the PO race pack, then this could open up ME to WH2 owners that don't have WH1 since they would be showing they are purchasing WH3 (aka two games in the series). This could make DoW a ME and Grand Campaign exclusive solving the issue of them not fitting on the Vortex map and not being near the Darklands (or assumed WH3 play area). Norsca isn't playable in the Vortex campaign either so we can assume if there is a race pack, then it won't be playable on the WH3 map outside of the Grand Campaign.
Also OP, I strongly disagree that there isn't many races left for race packs. There's six contenders for the core races in WH3 (with 4 of them looking the most probable):
-Ogre Kingdoms (100%) -Daemons of Chaos (100%) -Chaos Dwarves (90%, 10% chance could be a DLC curveball) -Kislev (90+ % and rising with every new piece of official content releasing with Old World TT) -Undead Legion (40% or so. Being pessimistic and assuming will be a TK LL but quite possible CA/GW makes a unique faction. If so, most likely DLC but could be a curveball core race) -Cathay (15% or lower. It's no secret that Cathay would need a lot of work from both GW and CA but honestly testing the audience for it in a video game is a much cheaper trial than creating TT models. China has also been a major focus for a lot of companies these days so I don't see why GW would be an exception)
There's also Grand Campaign only race packs that could get introduced for races like Southern Realms/DoW and even Araby if that gets put back on the table but that's for another conversation. With those 6 races above, we could see any combination of 4 for core and have the other 2 as DLC, especially with them being a mixture of Lawful, Neutral, Undead, and Chaos factions. For example:
1- Like WH1: 2 Lawful (Kislev, Cathay), 1 Neutral instead of Destructive (Orges instead of Greenskins), and 1 Undead (Undead Legion) with Daemons (like WoC in WH1) and Chaos Dwarves as DLC 2- Like WH2: 1 Lawful (Kislev), 1 Neutral instead of Lawful (Ogres instead of Lizardmen), 2 Chaos instead of 1 and 1 Destructive (Chaos of Daemons and Chaos Dwarves instead of Dark Elves) 3- Grimdark: 2 Chaos (Daemons and Chaos Dwarves), 1 Undead (Undead Legion), and 1 Neutral (Ogres) 4- Good vs Evil: 2 Lawful (Kislev and Cathay), 2 Chaos (Deamons and Chaos Dwarves) with Ogres and Undead Legion as DLC 5- Evil curveball (and least likely): 4 Monogods, Ogres and Chaos Dwarves as DLC 6- Lazy curveball: Daemons, Chaos Dwarves, Ogres, and some WH1/2 core races filling the last 2 LL spots
The point is, they have plenty of options if you consider the 8 races as potential factions or even the 6 if you rule out Araby and the low chance of Cathay. There's also a possibility that we won't see any DLC race packs for WH3 as there is still a huge list of potential units and LLs for the current 15 races, along with the 3 guaranteed races (DoC, CD, and OK), so who knows what direction they will end up going with. Personally going to keep my expectations low with option 2 but I am truly hoping we end up with all 6 races, despite the odds that the Undead Legion and Cathay have going against them.
Norsca is not playable yet. (still have hope) , but there were never announct to be playable in WH2. There were a DLC for WH1.
I don't like the idea of another undead faction. VC,VP and TK are enough. But that's just me.
And a DLC only for ME I don't believe in. There a still people who don't like the ME and are playing Vortex only. So why should CA ignore these people.
You're overthinking it. It can easily be a race with two LL that doesn't get touched ever again, like Norsca.
Hence Middenland/Cult of Ulric.
It would make a lot of sense.
Old Heroes: - All Wizards
Old Units: - All State Troops variants - Normal Empire Knights - Archers - Mortars - Cannons
New units: - Warriors of Ulric (2-3 variants) - Wolf-Kin - Teutogen Guard (2 variants) - Children of Ulric (Skinwolfs) - Knights Panther - Knights of the White Wolf - Hunting Hounds - Wolfs of Middenland
New Lords: - Grand Master of the White Wolf - High Priest of Ulric
New Heroes: - Midden Seneschal - Warrior Priest of Ulric
Just a note here: to date we have not received a “race pack” in TWW2. Campaign packs are described by CA as super race packs. The campaign race packs comes with more unique units and total 4 LL because they diverted the resources that went into the mini- campaign.
They could possibly have a LP as a preorder. Perhaps even before Huntsmen dropped I was convinced we would not be seeing a new race in TWW2.
I also want to point out that these patterns that people see aren’t really set in stone and it might seem like It’s better to base your predictions but the majority of times basing predictions solely on CAs “patterns” from what I’ve seen, leaves people wrong more times than right.
If we want as much content in the game as possible, even with expanding the map it’s going to be a crowded place. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to think they can fit 5 more starting locations (I’m including the 3LL for the next LP and flc after G&P).
There’s a lot CA can do. I highly doubt they will restrict themselves to their past “patterns“. That seems very limiting to me. What does the director Rich say? “We always try to push ourselves to be more creative and deliver something fresh and a lot of flavor”(paraphrasing).
I wouldn’t put out the realm of reasoning that a race pack is only playable on mortal empires campaign and playable on TWW3 what it drops. The preorder could also simply be early access and only playable on ME then expanded when TWW3 hits.
Looking at the larger context coupled with what they have done before-I think we will get a race pack (not a campaign pack). With a big possibility it will start with only being playable on ME. I hope it’s not kislev or DoW because Imo they should at least get the campaign pack treatment (I want kislev to get core race treatment). So I think it will be cult of ulric on ME, maybe they will put the ulric priest in Lustria or the South lands on a pilgrimage and Toddy in Naggaroth or Norsca going on the attack after a Norsca raid.
My other guess, most will laugh (understandably), but I think Albion has a shot of being a preorder race. One to war immediately with Kroxgar and the other in where ever- plenty of places and One liner stories To justify placement. My main rule of thumb for preorder race is it must have the majority of its assets in game to be a reasonable guess/prediction.
Apologies for the ramble I’m going to drink some coffee now
You're overthinking it. It can easily be a race with two LL that doesn't get touched ever again, like Norsca.
Amazons is perfect pre-order DLC with just two legendary lords in Lustria, Mother Samantha and Anakonda. If CA will use stuff from Mordheim: Town Cryer and Amazons list from White Dwarf. They will be no problem to make Amazons race. Half of new units for them can be simple variants of Amazon Warriors or Jaguar Warriors. Just look to Norsca roster in the game with lot of variants of Marauders. Just Imagine Amazons race with jaguars and big apes.
You're overthinking it. It can easily be a race with two LL that doesn't get touched ever again, like Norsca.
Amazons is perfect pre-order DLC with just two legendary lords in Lustria, Mother Samantha and Anakonda. If CA will use stuff from Mordheim: Town Cryer and Amazons list from White Dwarf. They will be no problem to make Amazons race. Half of new units for them can be simple variants of Amazon Warriors or Jaguar Warriors. Just look to Norsca roster in the game with lot of variants of Marauders. Just Imagine Amazons race with jaguars and big apes.
You're overthinking it. It can easily be a race with two LL that doesn't get touched ever again, like Norsca.
Amazons is perfect pre-order DLC with just two legendary lords in Lustria, Mother Samantha and Anakonda. If CA will use stuff from Mordheim: Town Cryer and Amazons list from White Dwarf. They will be no problem to make Amazons race. Half of new units for them can be simple variants of Amazon Warriors or Jaguar Warriors. Just look to Norsca roster in the game with lot of variants of Marauders. Just Imagine Amazons race with jaguars and big apes.
Amazons have not enough content for a race.
You can say same thing about Vampire Coast before own DLC. Amazons have a few characters, units, own lore of magic and own theme. It make more sense to add Amazons race than split Empire to two races without option for confederation.
A well established race with a good ammount of named characters <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< some god (GW) forsaken race that 99% of the hardcore tabletop long time players have never heard of. Just for variety.
You're overthinking it. It can easily be a race with two LL that doesn't get touched ever again, like Norsca.
Amazons is perfect pre-order DLC with just two legendary lords in Lustria, Mother Samantha and Anakonda. If CA will use stuff from Mordheim: Town Cryer and Amazons list from White Dwarf. They will be no problem to make Amazons race. Half of new units for them can be simple variants of Amazon Warriors or Jaguar Warriors. Just look to Norsca roster in the game with lot of variants of Marauders. Just Imagine Amazons race with jaguars and big apes.
Amazons have not enough content for a race.
You can say same thing about Vampire Coast before own DLC. Amazons have a few characters, units, own lore of magic and own theme. It make more sense to add Amazons race than split Empire to two races without option for confederation.
The Coast had a complete list plus extra stuff from the monstreous arcanum.
Amazons have just 2 units and the rest is fanmade. Best they can hope for is being part of DoW, but a unique race? Never.
You're overthinking it. It can easily be a race with two LL that doesn't get touched ever again, like Norsca.
Amazons is perfect pre-order DLC with just two legendary lords in Lustria, Mother Samantha and Anakonda. If CA will use stuff from Mordheim: Town Cryer and Amazons list from White Dwarf. They will be no problem to make Amazons race. Half of new units for them can be simple variants of Amazon Warriors or Jaguar Warriors. Just look to Norsca roster in the game with lot of variants of Marauders. Just Imagine Amazons race with jaguars and big apes.
Amazons have not enough content for a race.
You can say same thing about Vampire Coast before own DLC. Amazons have a few characters, units, own lore of magic and own theme. It make more sense to add Amazons race than split Empire to two races without option for confederation.
The Coast had a complete list plus extra stuff from the monstreous arcanum.
Amazons have just 2 units and the rest is fanmade. Best they can hope for is being part of DoW, but a unique race? Never.
Having Amazons and not Araby is like having Chaos Warriors steamrolling empire Kislev for the rest of Game 3.
I believe the pre order will be a Warriors of chaos overhaul dlc. It will add 3 new lords: Valkia the Bloddy to represent Khorne Vilitch the Curseling to represent Tzeentch and Festus the Leachlord to represent Nurgle Slaanesh already has Sigvald meaning he would juts be updated.
These 4 charcters would let you play a warriors of chaos game devouted to a specfic god. Whiile Archeon will lead undivided and Kholek will be dragon ogre focuses. The DLC would be a lord pack/race pack overhaul. It could add new units such as Skull crushers of Khorne, Hellstriders of Slaanesh, maybe Chimeras and Slughterbrutes too. Naturally Chaos Ogres would be added with game 3 aswell.
This preorder dlc could be only for Game 3 or it could segway game 2 to 3.
You're overthinking it. It can easily be a race with two LL that doesn't get touched ever again, like Norsca.
Amazons is perfect pre-order DLC with just two legendary lords in Lustria, Mother Samantha and Anakonda. If CA will use stuff from Mordheim: Town Cryer and Amazons list from White Dwarf. They will be no problem to make Amazons race. Half of new units for them can be simple variants of Amazon Warriors or Jaguar Warriors. Just look to Norsca roster in the game with lot of variants of Marauders. Just Imagine Amazons race with jaguars and big apes.
Amazons have not enough content for a race.
You can say same thing about Vampire Coast before own DLC. Amazons have a few characters, units, own lore of magic and own theme. It make more sense to add Amazons race than split Empire to two races without option for confederation.
The Coast had a complete list plus extra stuff from the monstreous arcanum.
Amazons have just 2 units and the rest is fanmade. Best they can hope for is being part of DoW, but a unique race? Never.
If CA will use all units from these lists and add few variants of them + add a few cool monsters like Culchan, Cold Ones, Jaguars and Apes. It will not be problem to make Amazons race as pre-order bonus with 2 legendary lords. Amazons have big potencial to be unique race.
Never? How you can be sure? Sure, Amazons don't have big chance but they can still be pre-order race playable in Vortex. If CA will keep Southern Realms and Kislev for game 3. What other race can be add as pre-order bonus to Vortex campaign except Amazons? Araby is dead.
Nah, I still want a race pack. And I still want it to be Araby, and there is still room on the vortex map for another race. CA makes room when there isn’t. But if it isn’t Araby, Give us another race pack. Araby would have been less expensive to make though. Have most of the skeletons they need. Since it’s free, the race they pick will probably have to have some corners cut, so fewer skeletons to rig up the better.
Nah, I still want a race pack. And I still want it to be Araby, and there is still room on the vortex map for another race. CA makes room when there isn’t. But if it isn’t Araby, Give us another race pack. Araby would have been less expensive to make though. Have most of the skeletons they need. Since it’s free, the race they pick will probably have to have some corners cut, so fewer skeletons to rig up the better.
Araby has little to no chance of making it in. Rapanse pretty much filles the void for them not being there. Also ifeel like Araby has been blocked by GW. Gamesworkshop has to approve every thing CA does and it seems to me that a fantasy Arab faction from the 90s could cause some controversy that GW wants to avoid at all costs.
Nah, I still want a race pack. And I still want it to be Araby, and there is still room on the vortex map for another race. CA makes room when there isn’t. But if it isn’t Araby, Give us another race pack. Araby would have been less expensive to make though. Have most of the skeletons they need. Since it’s free, the race they pick will probably have to have some corners cut, so fewer skeletons to rig up the better.
Araby has little to no chance of making it in. Rapanse pretty much filles the void for them not being there. Also ifeel like Araby has been blocked by GW. Gamesworkshop has to approve every thing CA does and it seems to me that a fantasy Arab faction from the 90s could cause some controversy that GW wants to avoid at all costs.
Don't give him even that slither. They have no chance of getting in; people need to accept this and move on.
I have a theory with Araby and I think that in a way it is true that it has been blocked by GW. But not because of racist nonsense and those crazy ideas that people say, but because in GW they want to make Araby for Old World, and they want to revive it from the beginning, change it a lot or refocus the faction. I don't know if you guys know GW's podcasts but they don't have any problems with araby, they have commented on it and talk about it as any other faction. It is very present in the 4th edition of the role-playing game and in recent novels. It is not something they want to forget, much less. I would like to make a topic to find out about this because I think it is interesting.
But in summary, I think Araby's topic has been postponed, not because of problems with the faction itself (accusing the faction of being racist is simply stupid, having things like Bretonnia on the table that are a lot of cliches), but for a vision for the future in changing and modifying it to renew its roster and identity.
Nah, I still want a race pack. And I still want it to be Araby, and there is still room on the vortex map for another race. CA makes room when there isn’t. But if it isn’t Araby, Give us another race pack. Araby would have been less expensive to make though. Have most of the skeletons they need. Since it’s free, the race they pick will probably have to have some corners cut, so fewer skeletons to rig up the better.
Araby has little to no chance of making it in. Rapanse pretty much filles the void for them not being there. Also ifeel like Araby has been blocked by GW. Gamesworkshop has to approve every thing CA does and it seems to me that a fantasy Arab faction from the 90s could cause some controversy that GW wants to avoid at all costs.
There is no real source that speaks of GW not wanting to know anything about Araby, quite the contrary. In 4 edition of the role-playing game, which is two years to the present, minor factions have appeared a lot in these supplements. So that comment doesn't make any sense. We don't know the real reason for the negative to Araby, stop pouring out conspiracy theories as if they were true.
I'm just stating what I want I don't care if it has been said no to in general or currently or whatever. I still just want Araby. But in the absence of Araby, I just want a new minor faction race pack period. They are so different and unique to what we normally see in the main races (Which are all guaranteed to be in game eventually anyway). They fill out the warhammer world and make it feel more alive and give me another race to play with and fight against.
Shouldn't ever deny more content and fleshing out in the best warhammer game. This is the one game all our wishes should be able to come true in.
All I know is, I cannot wait for Ogre Kingdoms! I hope to see some really cool architecture in their sky titan homes and just going around smashing with big hungry bois and monstrous wintery beasts is going to be so fun.
Comments
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1 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeI don't like the idea of another undead faction. VC,VP and TK are enough. But that's just me.
And a DLC only for ME I don't believe in. There a still people who don't like the ME and are playing Vortex only. So why should CA ignore these people.
- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree Agree- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeOld Heroes:
- All Wizards
Old Units:
- All State Troops variants
- Normal Empire Knights
- Archers
- Mortars
- Cannons
New units:
- Warriors of Ulric (2-3 variants)
- Wolf-Kin
- Teutogen Guard (2 variants)
- Children of Ulric (Skinwolfs)
- Knights Panther
- Knights of the White Wolf
- Hunting Hounds
- Wolfs of Middenland
New Lords:
- Grand Master of the White Wolf
- High Priest of Ulric
New Heroes:
- Midden Seneschal
- Warrior Priest of Ulric
- Report
1 · Disagree AgreeThey could possibly have a LP as a preorder. Perhaps even before Huntsmen dropped I was convinced we would not be seeing a new race in TWW2.
I also want to point out that these patterns that people see aren’t really set in stone and it might seem like It’s better to base your predictions but the majority of times basing predictions solely on CAs “patterns” from what I’ve seen, leaves people wrong more times than right.
If we want as much content in the game as possible, even with expanding the map it’s going to be a crowded place. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to think they can fit 5 more starting locations (I’m including the 3LL for the next LP and flc after G&P).
There’s a lot CA can do. I highly doubt they will restrict themselves to their past “patterns“. That seems very limiting to me. What does the director Rich say? “We always try to push ourselves to be more creative and deliver something fresh and a lot of flavor”(paraphrasing).
I wouldn’t put out the realm of reasoning that a race pack is only playable on mortal empires campaign and playable on TWW3 what it drops. The preorder could also simply be early access and only playable on ME then expanded when TWW3 hits.
Looking at the larger context coupled with what they have done before-I think we will get a race pack (not a campaign pack). With a big possibility it will start with only being playable on ME. I hope it’s not kislev or DoW because Imo they should at least get the campaign pack treatment (I want kislev to get core race treatment). So I think it will be cult of ulric on ME, maybe they will put the ulric priest in Lustria or the South lands on a pilgrimage and Toddy in Naggaroth or Norsca going on the attack after a Norsca raid.
My other guess, most will laugh (understandably), but I think Albion has a shot of being a preorder race. One to war immediately with Kroxgar and the other in where ever- plenty of places and One liner stories To justify placement. My main rule of thumb for preorder race is it must have the majority of its assets in game to be a reasonable guess/prediction.
Apologies for the ramble I’m going to drink some coffee now
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0 · Disagree AgreeJust Imagine Amazons race with jaguars and big apes.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree AgreeJust for variety.
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0 · Disagree AgreeAmazons have just 2 units and the rest is fanmade. Best they can hope for is being part of DoW, but a unique race? Never.
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1 · Disagree AgreeValkia the Bloddy to represent Khorne
Vilitch the Curseling to represent Tzeentch
and Festus the Leachlord to represent Nurgle
Slaanesh already has Sigvald meaning he would juts be updated.
These 4 charcters would let you play a warriors of chaos game devouted to a specfic god. Whiile Archeon will lead undivided and Kholek will be dragon ogre focuses. The DLC would be a lord pack/race pack overhaul. It could add new units such as Skull crushers of Khorne, Hellstriders of Slaanesh, maybe Chimeras and Slughterbrutes too. Naturally Chaos Ogres would be added with game 3 aswell.
This preorder dlc could be only for Game 3 or it could segway game 2 to 3.
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1 · Disagree Agreehttp://broheim.net/downloads/towncryer/TownCryer15.pdf
If CA will use all units from these lists and add few variants of them + add a few cool monsters like Culchan, Cold Ones, Jaguars and Apes. It will not be problem to make Amazons race as pre-order bonus with 2 legendary lords. Amazons have big potencial to be unique race.
Never? How you can be sure? Sure, Amazons don't have big chance but they can still be pre-order race playable in Vortex. If CA will keep Southern Realms and Kislev for game 3. What other race can be add as pre-order bonus to Vortex campaign except Amazons? Araby is dead.
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1 · Disagree AgreeBut in summary, I think Araby's topic has been postponed, not because of problems with the faction itself (accusing the faction of being racist is simply stupid, having things like Bretonnia on the table that are a lot of cliches), but for a vision for the future in changing and modifying it to renew its roster and identity.
For more info about araby you can visit the topic I did clarifying things: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/259589/araby-lore-clarifications-no-theories-no-speculation-just-warhammer-lore/p1
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1 · Disagree AgreeShouldn't ever deny more content and fleshing out in the best warhammer game. This is the one game all our wishes should be able to come true in.
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0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree- Report
0 · Disagree Agree