Guys, Creative Assembly DOES listen to player feedback

ROMAINVICTATW

I want to preface this rant (because this is honestly what this is going to be) by saying that I am extremely excited about the next dlc/free update, which is two days away at the time of my posting. After seeing the dlc trailer almost two weeks ago, I was so freaking excited about the changes that were coming and how cool the characters showcased are going to be to play. After having my fill of the trailer, I took to these very forums to see how excited everyone else was about what the next content drop had to offer, and I did see that a lot of people were similarly excited about what was to come.

But I was disheartened to see how many people were angry for some reason of other. The reasons ranged from being mad about the lack of Goblin spear chakkas, discontent over the wood elves and beastmen not getting a re-work, that CA is incompetent and the only good content is made through fan-made mods, etc etc. But the overarching theme ( and often central arguement) is that somehow, CA is at fault and doesn't listen to player feedback, and honestly, I can understand some of the complaints.

Spear chakkas are a cool unit that'd be useful. Wood Elves and Beastmen absolutely need a rework. The online modding community is incredible and has given a lifetime of content for this amazing game. I agree to all of these things, but it feels like more than a few people ignore everything else positive that CA has done with the game, and makes their own complaints sound way more important and pressing than they really are, in order to justify their anger towards CA. I get that these are generally a small group of people who are loud to seem like they're bigger than they are, but I want to express my anger and frustration to the people who don't actually seem to appreciate anything CA does.

I want to say right now that CA have been doing an amazing job with Warhammer and that yes, they do listen to player feedback. The entire WAAAGH! update is a (free) overhaul of the Greenskins, a race that fans have pointed out has been in need of an update and specifically addresses most of the Greenskins previous problems. In the same vein, the High Elves are having an Influence overhaul, another complaint players have had. The entire Proving Grounds Beta was an experiment to test out a bunch of different solutions to various complaints players had, and relied on player feedback on what changes they liked. In their latest video update, they specifically referenced the Proving Grounds and expressed a desire to try to implement some more extreme changes made in the Proving Grounds and to reopen the Proving Grounds a second time, because they were excited for more player feedback and to test out new ideas. AND POISON ARROWS DON'T INFLICT POISON TO FRIENDLY UNITS ANYMORE. Maybe some of these changes took a bit too long to be implemented into the game, but isn't it more important that at the end of the day, they WILL be implemented? What has CA been but receptive to feedback?

I get that it sometimes takes a while for CA to the issues some people have, and sometimes CA makes a mistake, but I also want to point out that CA isn't perfect, and doesn't need to be perfect in order to make a fun and engaging game that offers hundreds of hours of content. Furthermore, CA has more than just this one game to worry about. Three Kingdoms released about a year ago and they're currently working through and developing dlc for it. They have an entire catalogue of different games they have to pay attention to and different problems to solve, so obviously they aren't going to be able to immediately attend to our every complaint or criticism.

Finally, I want to end this by thanking Creative Assembly for all of their hard work, from the quality of the work they provide to how much they include the community in their development, and I'm heartened to see other people in the community who are also posting appreciation threads on this forum.

XxXScorpionXxX#2310

that should have been obvious when they announced the Warden and the Waaagh. I know people like to think they predicted it, but it was very much a case of the tail waging the dog.

Vanilla_Gorilla#8529

It's the internet. There's always a background noise of upset at everything.

Pandabaron#6593

Creative assembly have made an astonishingly good game here, and people will sadly always disagree over what is added and what isn’t focused on. It’s disheartening to see that more plaudits aren’t given to it for the great content created time and time again for less than than the price of lunch every six months.

Don’t fret, The changes are exciting, and the people complaining are in the minority. Creative assembly have worked really hard for this product, and the people who don’t think so will find that perfect mod that makes it as brilliant to them as it is to you and me. I could nitpick about a few gripes too, but all in all this game will always be one of the greats.

saweendra#3399

we support it the best way,we pre order .

XxXScorpionXxX#2310

Pandabaron said:

Creative assembly have made an astonishingly good game here, and people will sadly always disagree over what is added and what isn’t focused on. It’s disheartening to see that more plaudits aren’t given to it for the great content created time and time again for less than than the price of lunch every six months.

Don’t fret, The changes are exciting, and the people complaining are in the minority. Creative assembly have worked really hard for this product, and the people who don’t think so will find that perfect mod that makes it as brilliant to them as it is to you and me. I could nitpick about a few gripes too, but all in all this game will always be one of the greats.

okay guys we're starting to get into fanboying territory. CA has created a great game and people are going to find things to complain about yes. But most of the complaining has been simple constructive criticism regarding artistic direction or prioritizing of new content. CA is a company not our friend, the employees that work there are great I'm sure but they're adults they can handle the constructive criticism. And it seems like they do, which is good on them because that is a rare trait in game developers.

RockNRolla92#9743

The people asking for things and complaining are just really passionate about the game and want it to be the best it can be/what they envision. Sure it gets a bit much sometimes but that's the internet.

If the game was crap there would be no one on here asking for things. It's also quite a common cultural thing to raise criticism and point out negatives more so than positives.

Not sure why you felt disheartened, are you new to the internet?

Pandabaron#6593

Yes, I would say the difference is they do take that criticism and work on it, frequently. I’ve just been burnt by so many other games company’s..

Rome 1 came out when I was in high school, I guess i’ve Always had a soft spot for CA. My inner fan is clearly showing.. lol

Artjuh90#8868

I don't think the community isn't happy about the game.
most of us love it (thats why we play it). but that doesn't mean that the game has way more potential then it already is.
It is not a bad thing to communicate this to CA. for example sieges. they still suck especially the AI in siege defense.
they have adress to fix this with game 3 so im happy with that. but if we are quiet less changes happen.
do think it's stange they had little to no feedback given about the proving grounds with what they agreed with and which not to maybe add to the future. afterall they were asking for feedback but never anwser back to the community i think is kinda strange. yes what choice there will be made there will be critique on it but hey by now delvelpers should know this and don't care to mutch about to vocal minority.

but just fanboying and never to critique is wrong. you get **** like FIFA lootboxes....

Itharus#3127

Vanilla_Gorilla said:

It's the internet. There's always a background noise of upset at everything.

Nahhhhh there's just always a background noise of upset everywhere you go

BrynjarK

"Sure it gets a bit much sometimes, but that's the internet."

Internet = not an excuse for bad behavior

Im looking forward to the new Orc update, i hope it has some good replayability and i hope the physics of the units feels right

MrMecH

CA isn't perfect, same for players. CA might be annoy me in some issues but I respect them to make the greatest Strategy Game ever. Even I always rant but I support them with my money anyways. At least they are far better than EA, Bathesda, Bioware.

Canuovea#6291

It is rare that anyone gets exactly what they want. Advocating for what you want and think will improve the game is fine. The line is drawn when things become abusive towards other people.

And yes, CA is a company, not a person, but there are people working at that company, putting real personal effort into the game. They don't deserve abuse just as anyone else doesn't deserve abuse. So long as criticism is constructive, it is okay (or even good!).

Bonutz#3949

To be fair mate, there’s always going to be a loud minority that is mad no matter what CA does. It’s unavoidable. Just tune it out and don’t take it too seriously.

Draxynnic#3149

XxXScorpionXxX said:

that should have been obvious when they announced the Warden and the Waaagh. I know people like to think they predicted it, but it was very much a case of the tail waging the dog.

Can be both. People predicted it in part because CA had responded positively to the suggestion before, and in part because certain other decisions they'd made only made sense with the presumption that there was an Eltharion versus Grom planned.

There definitely are clear cases of CA responding to feedback here... but in a way, that makes it all the more curious that some of the things they've done seem to go against the feedback. For instance, the Greenskins are getting some awesome models in the DLC, but what a lot of people were asking for were relatively low-effort, practical additions which could plug tactical gaps, gaps which appear to remain unplugged. Meanwhile, at least some High Elf players were hoping to finally get a decent slice of the modelling and animation budget, and while to be fair the lions are a step in that direction, the rest of the list are the sort of low effort, practical additions that the greenskin players were asking for.

It's reasonable to express disappointment in things that you find, well, disappointing. It is definitely possible to go over the top in doing so, though.

Itharus#3127

Canuovea said:

It is rare that anyone gets exactly what they want.

Thomassini

If anything, constructive criticism
by REAL and dedicated fans is the best thing CA can get.

Some people here have started with Shogun 1... or like me with Med 1 back in 2002 and never stopped, others have always been huge fans of tabletop and were waiting for this game for years or decades. That’s the most committed player base you can dream about. The fact that we are criticizing the game for perceived flaws doesn’t mean we are nitpicking or hate CA. Quite the contrary, it’s because we love this game and want it to get ever better and fleshed our with ever more content.

That being said, the main gripe is NOT the quality of the game, which is top notch, but the quality of their communication.

There have been tens of threads of people angry at CA because of perceived lack of new heroes in GS rework. At some point the first page of this forum was overwhelmed by these threads. ALL CA should have done in this case, is come out in one or two of them and say “It is addressed.”, without revealing anything particular.

Instead, we had to wait for some Youtuber’s mistake and someone noticing an obscure icon being shown for 2 seconds that possibly is the new free hero, our meme BOBB.

Hundreds of rage and angry threads, and all of that could have been avoided by four words. That’s my main gripe.

Xenos777

It seems to me people are reasonably happy.

BrynjarK

Thomassini said:

That being said, the main gripe is NOT the quality of the game, which is top notch, but the quality of their communication.

Guns'n'Roses - Patience

Red_Dox#2328

While I agree that CA does overall a great job and does listen to the community for this and that (for example: K8P now ten slots, Grimgors 'ard Boyz after "Black Crag" did not cut it, Azhag getting a own Nagashizzar landmark), they occasionally still drop the ball and yes, we also have a right to **** about that.

This DLC for example with the rework, is a mixed bag for me. Grom is great, Highelfs looks pretty much OK to me, territorial map changes are fine, even Batmans sexdungeon seems good [while it still reminds me a bit to much at "Shadows of Mordor"].
And then we have the failed Stonetroll skins, while getting literally 4 skins for Pump Wagon.
Then we have the River Troll Hag ****, while we miss a dozen regular O&G Lords/Heroes.
Then we get the free Arachnarok Mount (YAAAAIII) with a Goblin on top (meh, at least like in the effed up armybook) who looks like a Night Goblin (WTF?).

If we praise them more for what they do right and preorde rthe DLC instantly, that speaks volumes enough. So when we criticize specific stuff and not CA in general like trollish "Muh, to much DLC, greedy dev!" I see every once in a while, there might be still some truth to those "rants". And the overall goal for pointing those flaws out, might be that CA does either better for future content or listens and rectifies the errors in future patches.

------Red Dox

Timpeyo

I'm not sure I agree honestly I think most everyone on here has been pretty excited and praising CA for the new content, there's been the odd few disheartened people who weren't happy to not get certain unit/hero they wanted but it's usually been followed in same discussion how they love everything else.

Talk about what some wish had been included but nothing to heated

overall I think response has been pretty great. BM, WE discussions/arguments will always be around threads until they get addressed but which I'm sure CA have plans for.

With all the content CA has dished out recently I for one couldn't be happier and think most ppl here have giving them mostly praise for there hard work

Seto_Masamune_P4

So i have finally returned after working on a few things these last few days and well yesterday i gave the AMA they did last month to look up something grace said about the difference in commutation between this game and 3K.

After seeing the rage the first week of the dlc being shown about missing units/lords, What the heck the Waaagh units and others things on the HE side. Its been funny reading this morning how many of those people are now heavy praising the DLC and Rework now. Its like Grace said, they don't need to tell us anything before hand as we just buy whatever they selling at the time.

I do feel we are giving CA some very mix signals here as we complain about them one week then praise them the next week and then complain the week after and repeat.

To TLTR - Maybe we need to show some improvement on the signals we give CA to maybe in turn improve them taking more of our feedback much better and communication with us more often than the two ist weeks they do when a DLC needs to be sold.

Grom_the_Paunch#8146

1. Proving Grounds existed purely for feedback. It was an investment, made by CA, wanting to hear from us, the fans. Anybody who says they don't listen after thinking about that is not getting an "A" in my class. QED

2. I could make a thread about the White Lion model that I like that CA have made. What am I hoping to achieve? Not much. Maybe CA's designers will feel good, if they don't already. What is the point of the thread? Seeing who shares my view? OR I could make a thread about the Stone Troll model I DON'T like. What am I hoping to achieve? I want CA to notice and make it look like a Stone Troll. There. Clear reason for posting.

3. I can like things and dislike things. If you make a thread about something I don't like, I will sound negative. That doesn't mean I am negative about the entire DLC, CA or anything else. The opposite can also be true. I can like something and sttill feel overall rather negative or positive. We ought to stop overreacting to people's opinions on things. There is no need to pigeonhole someone's entire outlook based on one topic of conversation. Also, see 2. "Negative threads" can generate more traction.

Ad4mG

@ROMAINVICTATW

DLC as always is good.

But for example, small patches for
Campaign Balance Changes,Battle Balance Changes,Bug Fixes,Unit Balancing...e.t.c.
can be included more than once every 5 months,
may be at least once a month?

Apparently the CA does not include to business model: 1x1 ladder, competitive solo | multiplayer campaign, etc.

For example, I found a bug with Black Arks; it there is in the bugs section with the status IN PROGRESS, but I didn’t see it in the patch .... probably we will wait again 5 months before the next DLC?

where did the arks come out?

it is true that new content is money, but patches every month is not money ...

@Canuovea
Is my criticism constructive?

Ares354#1090

ROMAINVICTATW said:

I want to preface this rant (because this is honestly what this is going to be) by saying that I am extremely excited about the next dlc/free update, which is two days away at the time of my posting. After seeing the dlc trailer almost two weeks ago, I was so freaking excited about the changes that were coming and how cool the characters showcased are going to be to play. After having my fill of the trailer, I took to these very forums to see how excited everyone else was about what the next content drop had to offer, and I did see that a lot of people were similarly excited about what was to come.

But I was disheartened to see how many people were angry for some reason of other. The reasons ranged from being mad about the lack of Goblin spear chakkas, discontent over the wood elves and beastmen not getting a re-work, that CA is incompetent and the only good content is made through fan-made mods, etc etc. But the overarching theme ( and often central arguement) is that somehow, CA is at fault and doesn't listen to player feedback, and honestly, I can understand some of the complaints.

Spear chakkas are a cool unit that'd be useful. Wood Elves and Beastmen absolutely need a rework. The online modding community is incredible and has given a lifetime of content for this amazing game. I agree to all of these things, but it feels like more than a few people ignore everything else positive that CA has done with the game, and makes their own complaints sound way more important and pressing than they really are, in order to justify their anger towards CA. I get that these are generally a small group of people who are loud to seem like they're bigger than they are, but I want to express my anger and frustration to the people who don't actually seem to appreciate anything CA does.

I want to say right now that CA have been doing an amazing job with Warhammer and that yes, they do listen to player feedback. The entire WAAAGH! update is a (free) overhaul of the Greenskins, a race that fans have pointed out has been in need of an update and specifically addresses most of the Greenskins previous problems. In the same vein, the High Elves are having an Influence overhaul, another complaint players have had. The entire Proving Grounds Beta was an experiment to test out a bunch of different solutions to various complaints players had, and relied on player feedback on what changes they liked. In their latest video update, they specifically referenced the Proving Grounds and expressed a desire to try to implement some more extreme changes made in the Proving Grounds and to reopen the Proving Grounds a second time, because they were excited for more player feedback and to test out new ideas. AND POISON ARROWS DON'T INFLICT POISON TO FRIENDLY UNITS ANYMORE. Maybe some of these changes took a bit too long to be implemented into the game, but isn't it more important that at the end of the day, they WILL be implemented? What has CA been but receptive to feedback?

I get that it sometimes takes a while for CA to the issues some people have, and sometimes CA makes a mistake, but I also want to point out that CA isn't perfect, and doesn't need to be perfect in order to make a fun and engaging game that offers hundreds of hours of content. Furthermore, CA has more than just this one game to worry about. Three Kingdoms released about a year ago and they're currently working through and developing dlc for it. They have an entire catalogue of different games they have to pay attention to and different problems to solve, so obviously they aren't going to be able to immediately attend to our every complaint or criticism.

Finally, I want to end this by thanking Creative Assembly for all of their hard work, from the quality of the work they provide to how much they include the community in their development, and I'm heartened to see other people in the community who are also posting appreciation threads on this forum.

Yea.....

People ask to remove fake Mount for some Lords, CA listen oh wait, they dont.

DLC powercreep, changed right ? oh wait ,Telic on flying monster.

CA listen to community, yea they do as can be seen.

XxXScorpionXxX#2310

Draxynnic said:

XxXScorpionXxX said:

that should have been obvious when they announced the Warden and the Waaagh. I know people like to think they predicted it, but it was very much a case of the tail waging the dog.

Can be both. People predicted it in part because CA had responded positively to the suggestion before, and in part because certain other decisions they'd made only made sense with the presumption that there was an Eltharion versus Grom planned.

There definitely are clear cases of CA responding to feedback here... but in a way, that makes it all the more curious that some of the things they've done seem to go against the feedback. For instance, the Greenskins are getting some awesome models in the DLC, but what a lot of people were asking for were relatively low-effort, practical additions which could plug tactical gaps, gaps which appear to remain unplugged. Meanwhile, at least some High Elf players were hoping to finally get a decent slice of the modelling and animation budget, and while to be fair the lions are a step in that direction, the rest of the list are the sort of low effort, practical additions that the greenskin players were asking for.

It's reasonable to express disappointment in things that you find, well, disappointing. It is definitely possible to go over the top in doing so, though.

On certain things I can give CA a pass because I'm a corporate man myself. I hold a BBA going for my MBA for my already semi established career in marketing research.

I've taken professional and corporate communication classes. I've taken classes on business law(at least US law). I understand why Grace is so hesitant to comment on anything. As a representative of the company what she says is an official company statement. Legally speaking CA could be on the hook for false advertisement if Grace promised Big Bosses and they didn't end up happening.

I'm sure they crunch constantly and they don't always get to finish the assets they work on. For example no one can convince me that Warp Grinders weren't meant for Ikit but couldn't get finished on time so they rolled it over to the next Skaven pack.

Having said all that, yes, there are examples of things that Grace really should be pushing her superiors to ease up on in terms of what she is allowed to communicate to the community.

bradleyvincentwells

XxXScorpionXxX said:

Pandabaron said:

Creative assembly have made an astonishingly good game here, and people will sadly always disagree over what is added and what isn’t focused on. It’s disheartening to see that more plaudits aren’t given to it for the great content created time and time again for less than than the price of lunch every six months.

Don’t fret, The changes are exciting, and the people complaining are in the minority. Creative assembly have worked really hard for this product, and the people who don’t think so will find that perfect mod that makes it as brilliant to them as it is to you and me. I could nitpick about a few gripes too, but all in all this game will always be one of the greats.

okay guys we're starting to get into fanboying territory. CA has created a great game and people are going to find things to complain about yes. But most of the complaining has been simple constructive criticism regarding artistic direction or prioritizing of new content. CA is a company not our friend, the employees that work there are great I'm sure but they're adults they can handle the constructive criticism. And it seems like they do, which is good on them because that is a rare trait in game developers.

"Complaining" and "simple constructive criticism" are not the same thing. They aren't even close.

A quick way for a successful gaming company like CA to ignore someone is for that person to complain on the internet that CA's mega-successful game doesn't meet their specific requirements. Like most game developers, they look at what people are clamoring for and make internal decisions on whether those requests are viable for the long-term success of the game. Again, most game developers do this. It is not "rare."

Djau#5149

They do listen to player feedback. They buffed Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings, both weak factions and are going to be fixing Confederation for them.

Draxynnic#3149

bradleyvincentwells said:

XxXScorpionXxX said:

Pandabaron said:

Creative assembly have made an astonishingly good game here, and people will sadly always disagree over what is added and what isn’t focused on. It’s disheartening to see that more plaudits aren’t given to it for the great content created time and time again for less than than the price of lunch every six months.

Don’t fret, The changes are exciting, and the people complaining are in the minority. Creative assembly have worked really hard for this product, and the people who don’t think so will find that perfect mod that makes it as brilliant to them as it is to you and me. I could nitpick about a few gripes too, but all in all this game will always be one of the greats.

okay guys we're starting to get into fanboying territory. CA has created a great game and people are going to find things to complain about yes. But most of the complaining has been simple constructive criticism regarding artistic direction or prioritizing of new content. CA is a company not our friend, the employees that work there are great I'm sure but they're adults they can handle the constructive criticism. And it seems like they do, which is good on them because that is a rare trait in game developers.

"Complaining" and "simple constructive criticism" are not the same thing. They aren't even close.

A quick way for a successful gaming company like CA to ignore someone is for that person to complain on the internet that CA's mega-successful game doesn't meet their specific requirements. Like most game developers, they look at what people are clamoring for and make internal decisions on whether those requests are viable for the long-term success of the game. Again, most game developers do this. It is not "rare."

If it's one person, yes. If that complaint becomes repeated by a significant portion of the part of the fanbase which is giving feedback at all, though, that becomes an indication of what people view as a problem, and a smart company will pay attention to that. Sure, the silent majority might not care, but the silent majority is just that - silent. Paying attention to the people who complain might stop you from losing (or help win back) people who don't bother complaining and just leave instead.

Ad4mG

@Draxynnic,
"Sure, the silent majority might not care" - they even are here, these are those who do not put Like

the first thing to start is to create tools for communication on the forum.

1. e.g. Voting