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Why isnt the Phoenix king a playable character?

BeardedragonBeardedragon MemberRegistered Users Posts: 1,478
Title?

i mean we have the leader of the empire as playable, we also have Malekith who is an heir to the throne, shouldnt the actual Phoenix King be playable too?
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Comments

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,580
    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,350

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
  • BeardedragonBeardedragon Member Registered Users Posts: 1,478
    erza321 said:

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
    well. i dont really know much lore about warhammer fantasy battle so i dont know.

    but how does one not notice their king being dead
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,580

    erza321 said:

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
    well. i dont really know much lore about warhammer fantasy battle so i dont know.

    but how does one not notice their king being dead
    2 words: Crappy. Writing.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,915

    erza321 said:

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
    well. i dont really know much lore about warhammer fantasy battle so i dont know.

    but how does one not notice their king being dead
    2 words: Crappy. Writing.
    I was literally about to write those exact two words. XD
    ò_ó
  • kasunrathnatungakasunrathnatunga Registered Users Posts: 4,019

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    not really. A while ago @Red_Dox shared a warhammmer comic where finubar joined the fighting
    #givemoreunitsforbrettonia
  • yolordmcswagyolordmcswag Registered Users Posts: 2,051
    Finubar was never a playable character on the TT. He was always known more as a diplomat and trader, leaving the actual commanding to others most of the time. While he did fight in battles, he is neither a great warrior nor a capable commander.

    So, while he would be nice to see in the game at some point, I think all the LL we have currently for the high elves are more important as actual playable lords. The influence dilemmas and landmarks related to Finubar still makes sure he has a presence in the game.
    erza321 said:

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
    IIRC he had only been dead a few weeks, months at most. Locked himself into a tower, when someone finally went inside some time later he was found dead.
  • brago90brago90 Registered Users Posts: 498

    erza321 said:

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
    well. i dont really know much lore about warhammer fantasy battle so i dont know.

    but how does one not notice their king being dead
    They are high elves, most of them spend their lives lying on a beach while flattering themselves in front of a mirror.

    There is also the fact that Finubar had the habit of going on a world trip if he felt the need.

    To this add that most of the high elves are too arrogant to even think that someone could attack them.

    It all comes down to the fact that the high elves are too arrogant, narcissistic and stupid to consider the possibility.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,350

    erza321 said:

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
    well. i dont really know much lore about warhammer fantasy battle so i dont know.

    but how does one not notice their king being dead
    He went into seclusion during a massive demonic invasion and got jumped by one of the worst retcons in Warhammer history.

    Originally Malekith was burned to a crisp when he tried to enter the Shrine of Asuryan because he was unworthy of becoming the next Phoenix. However during the End Times GW retconned this and Malekith was instead burned by the Shrine of Asuryan because Elven Gods wanted to play a joke on Malekith.

    This meant that all Phoenix Kings after Malekith got fried were imposters that were cursed by Asuryan, Finubar came to realization and let a Blood Thirster kill him.
  • MaedrethnirMaedrethnir Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,620
    It's because he never received model, rules and his role was reduced to a glorified politician. But who knows, come CA's End Times and we might get Asuryan reborn proper in Finubar.
    Drowned in stars, bloated we shine.
    ... .... .... --··-- -. --- - . .- .-. ... ·-·-·- --- -. .-.. -.-- -.. .-. . .- -- ... -. --- .-- ·-·-·-

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,580

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    not really. A while ago @Red_Dox shared a warhammmer comic where finubar joined the fighting
    doens't disprove my points. Finubar wasn't a TT character and the main army leading etc. he usually leaves to Tyrion. That he sometimes took the field as a fighter doesn't go against either point.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • TotalWar78TotalWar78 Registered Users Posts: 335
    There should be Finubar, but as mechanic. We get new panel, where we can spend influence to participate Court Of Phoenix political games and relations with Phoenix King.
  • xBlood_RavenxBlood_Raven Registered Users Posts: 451
    Have a comment on this from a previous thread:

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/2669433#Comment_2669433

    It made sense on the tabletop as Finubar was not a combat lord or character (although Tyrion and Teclis represent him on the tabletop while Korhil is the bodyguard). If you wanted Finubar, a standard Prince could do it.

    TWW is obviously different and a campaign map would allow him to shine (a 'chessmaster' LL is the term I use in terms of using diplomacy, leadership, influence and other elements to win). He can fight but not on the level of Tyrion, Eltharion or Imrik. Instead, he would act as a leadership LL that buffs and increases morale of all nearby friendly units.

    I'm thinking he could be in Game 3 as a FLC LL alongside Aislinn as both of them fit together in terms of a naval theme and helping each other in the lore before.
  • Tancred II von QuenellesTancred II von Quenelles Registered Users Posts: 325
    He is a bad chessmaster. He got his throne by luck not by a feat. He s just a travaller and bad strategist and tactician.
  • ArneSoArneSo Registered Users Posts: 7,752
    Finubar is just hanging around his palace in Lothern dealing with politics and noble court intrigues.

    If something needs to be done he sends others like Tyrion, Imrik, Eltharion or Aislinn.
  • DaruwindDaruwind Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 456
    edited May 26
    In my eyes Finubar >> Aislinn. With Tyrion now leading Etaine, we might probably see Finubar in Wh3 LP.

    1) Anointed of Asuryan (who is like embodiment of Asuryan???)
    2) Lothern Sea Helm, Lothern Skycutter
    3) Merwyrm
    4) Famous blade from Ind
    5) Seafarer


  • DaruwindDaruwind Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 456
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 5,547
    Finubar was never a character with (as far as I'm aware) even rules to field, never mind a model.

    In the fluff he's a wise ruler, an excellent diplomat, and a competent soldier, but well aware that Tyrion is his superior in the latter field, so has him lead his armies.

    Bringing him in-game would add very little, he'd be a Prince with a lot of support buffs and perhaps diplomacy bonuses with order factions.
    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • ZelnikZelnik Registered Users Posts: 452
    The political system of the elves holds warfare below the position of the Phoenix king. His job is mostly to make sure no particular faction gains too much favor or too much power. Making sure that the elven nations kept their eyes on their enemies and not on each other is a full time job.

    Part of the job of the leaders of minor kingdoms is to go out and do glorious acts to defend Ulthuan in order to vie for the position of Phoenix King.

    Finubar doesn't fight because he has other wars. Warhammer elves are NOT all peace loving beatniks. They are all psychotic magical murder frat boys that only maintain the illusion of civilization to annoy every other race around them.

    Consider Ulthuan some big party university. Every faction is a frat house.

    Saphery is like the bookish nerds who don't like anyone else (BBB if you know your greek culture).
    Eataine are the big sports football team frat who won two years in a row
    Yvresse is the lacross team frat that lost so bad last year that no one thinks they will win again
    Chrace are all the students that got in through grants due to poverty, but actually demonstrates more competence and honesty then anyone else.
    Order of Loremasters is a sub-frat of Saphery that exists on a sattelite campus that regularly embarrases Saphery with their skills.
    Caledor is a strange mix of the zoology, agri and engineering students who's head of house everyone wishes they were, and has the coolest pets.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 8,974
    Daruwind said:



    Warrior, seafearer, battle mage, phoenix king during the great war against chaos etc. Would make a great LL.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • bolero567bolero567 Registered Users Posts: 60
    edited May 26
    I kind of love the idea of a LL who is a worse combatant than a generic lord but comes with fantastic campaign map buffs/influence mechanics. There's the end times past Phoenix Kings summon spell for late game/multiplayer viability mechanic. Character has potential - he's the single and only level headed and not insane with pride High Elves character.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,344
    I like to think that, in this case, you are acting as the Phoenix King, directing diplomacy and other affairs as you expand your empire. Tyrion is your primary general serving as the commander of your main force.

    Same with Skaven. You're the clan leader manipulating everything while having your best general act as your main force.

    That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing him in-game, or at least have some sort of associated mechanic. I would prefer Aslinn though.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,580
    bolero567 said:

    I kind of love the idea of a LL who is a worse combatant than a generic lord but comes with fantastic campaign map buffs/influence mechanics. There's the end times past Phoenix Kings summon spell for late game/multiplayer viability mechanic. Character has potential - he's the single and only level headed and not insane with pride High Elves character.

    Finubar would still be on par to better than your average Prince. If you want to see a LL who, despite actually being a character that should be on par in melee with his normal Lord counterparts, is worse in melee, look at Azhag.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,915
    bolero567 said:

    I kind of love the idea of a LL who is a worse combatant than a generic lord but comes with fantastic campaign map buffs/influence mechanics. There's the end times past Phoenix Kings summon spell for late game/multiplayer viability mechanic. Character has potential - he's the single and only level headed and not insane with pride High Elves character.

    That would just encourage players to keep Finubar on the bench and recruit and use generic lords and confederated legendary lords instead. That actually would be true to lore, but if you are going that route you might as well just make Finubar a gameplay mechanic and not a playable character.
    ò_ó
  • bolero567bolero567 Registered Users Posts: 60
    Warlocke said:


    That would just encourage players to keep Finubar on the bench and recruit and use generic lords and confederated legendary lords instead. That actually would be true to lore, but if you are going that route you might as well just make Finubar a gameplay mechanic and not a playable character.

    Even better! You have to field him as a LL in battle every once in a while to keep bonuses up, but he's so suboptimal (at least until you unlock endgame buffs) it makes it more difficult to win compared to l20+ enemy legendary lords.

    Kind of fits with his own attitude; he'd rather be attending to matters of state but he has to lead armies every once in a while to inspire the troops.

    Like a "politician" legendary lord compared to the gigantic monsters, legendary duelists etc of other factions

  • NemotheelfNemotheelf Registered Users Posts: 842
    Finubar is not a commander. He's a statesman first and foremost. Part of the reason why the High Elves are doing so well is because Finubar is keeping all the political intrigue in check while not angering any of the aristocracy. He's never going to feature on the battlefield, but he should factor more in diplomacy.
  • RubzyRubzy Registered Users Posts: 177
    Why can't we play as Khorne or Kratos?

    Stop asking for this character. We have seen thousand of threads of this topic and the answer is always the same. Do some research for once before asking the same thing again.
  • kelembriborkelembribor Registered Users Posts: 671

    Finubar is not a commander. He's a statesman first and foremost. Part of the reason why the High Elves are doing so well is because Finubar is keeping all the political intrigue in check while not angering any of the aristocracy. He's never going to feature on the battlefield, but he should factor more in diplomacy.

    Funny thing how his fan edited wiki of his martial achievement of melting one head of hydra with his fancy Ind sword, when people forget that it has several heads and others were killed by Korhil and White Lion Bodyguards and possibly Tyrion while fighting against invasion of Malekith in Lothern.

    Among Phoenix Kings some are more likely to be leading armies and waging battles (bolded) and maybe one of Saphery Kings as mage lord could be also there.

    Aenarion the Defender

    Bel Shanaar the Explorer

    Caledor I the Conqueror

    Caledor II the Warrior

    Caradryel the Peacemaker

    Tethlis the Slayer

    Bel-Korhandis the Scholar King

    Aethis the Poet

    Morvael the Impetuous

    Bel-Hathor the Sage

    Finubar the Seafarer


    Finubar seems most alike to Bel Shanaar of all the Phoenix Kings, only way I could see him on battlefield is having guard of White Lions to boost him, since despite being great seafarer and politician his best ability is to see great among Elves and delegate or promote them to places where it will benefit Ulthuan.

    Though he can't explain how, Finubar is able to see when elves are of "consequence". For example, being able to tell if an elf is of the Blood of Aenarion, and how strongly. He says it's one of the gifts of being Phoenix King. He knows, or rather the part of him that was touched by the Flame of Asuryan knows, and it deigns to communicate its knowledge to him. However, even before ascending to the throne, when Finubar was a captain on his father's ships, he could tell when a storm would be a bad one, or whether the wind was about to suddenly change.

  • NazjaxNazjax Registered Users Posts: 795
    erza321 said:

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    It was also revealed in the End Times lore that Finubar had been dead for years and nobody at the Phoenix Court noticed, this being one of the many reasons people hate the End Times.
    But we are not in end times.

    Also, Finubar should be in game. (I mean, he could probably lead army but why lead an army when someone do better at it ? He is far better than Tyrion as ruler/wize/diplomat.

  • NazjaxNazjax Registered Users Posts: 795

    1) Karl Franz And Malekith were active characters on the tabletop, Finubar wasn't.
    2) Finubar, while a capable fighter, leaves the leading of armies and the whole warfare thing mostly to Tyrion.

    I dont remember Alberic had one too on tabletop ! Am i wrong ?

    Also, for the TWW WH they should make a unique mechanic that make Finubar more viable in city (giving buff to factions) instead of fighting in front, but make him capable of fighting because it's still a elven prince lol.
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