The Vampire Bloodlines - Should/Will they all be playable?

TheWattman#7460

All signs point towards Clan Moulder being one of the next DLC factions, which means that CA has pushed all the major Skaven clans into WH2. Leaving aside Thanquol and the Verminlords for the moment, this is about the most attention and thoroughness that any race has yet recieved in the series. This brings up a question: Will we see the same treatment for the Vampire Bloodlines? The Vampires were basically the Skaven of WH1 in some sense, they got more attention than they perhaps were entitled to. And yet, as much as the Vampires have recieved, they in reality only have 2 different start positions: Sylvania and the Barrow fortress in the Grey Mountains. As WH3 draws near the question is what more can they expect to recieve, especially if all the bloodlines, already generically represented in terms of lords, will some day see playable status.

Now, some of the Bloodlines are more likely than others, specifically 2 of them imo:

Neferata - Lahmians: This is basically a given for WH3. Neferata is my candidate to bring in remaining missing Vampire units like Spirit Hosts, Morghasts and Abyssal Terrors etc and also the one to center around a Nagash-themed campaign. Having Nagash as a starting faction I feel is not the way of implementing him, he should be an end-game unlock when Neferata, starting in Silver Pinnacle, conquers Nagashizzar. So that's basically the Lahmian line more or less confirmed.

Ushoran - Strigoi: Strygos has a decent chance of making it in as well, either for the last WH2 DLC/FLC or as a later WH3 addition. Assuming that Imrik is not included in WH3, then the Fortress of Vorag is an excellent start for Strygos. Or even if the newly added Mourkain is included in game 3, they can start there as well as they would do in ME. Im personally hoping for a DLC specifically, with the hopes of integrating living Strigany units into their roster in order for a true Strygos experience. Just Ghouls would just be bland and boring.

But then there are the, imo, less likely Bloodlines:
Abhorash or the Red Duke - Blood Dragons: Don't get me wrong, Abhorash is an awesome character, but if assuming the previously mentioned lines are gonna be implemented, then that already pushed the Vampires to 7 lords. At this point I think we need to prioritize. There are several things that are against the Blood Dragons being playable. For one, Abhorash's, assuming for the moment that the Red Duke won't make it and remain only as a big bad guy for Mousillon (assuming also that its not given to Mallobaude), faction would need different mechanics than the others. Blood Keep is not an option as the Grey Mountains are already crowded enough as they are and Abhorash has always been a wanderer. In order to properly represent him we would need some sort of Vampire horde-system, plus a very different system of vampiric corruption. And honestly, his story does seem him much more fitted as a Legendary Hero than a Faction Lord, roaming the world for worthy opponents and all. This makes me question whether we will ever see the Blood Dragons in the game.

W'Soran or Zacharias the Everliving - the Nercrarchs: This is the Bloodline I see as the least likely of making it into the game, really ever. This would push them up to 9 lords total. And there are several problems with the Necrarchs. For one, atleast with the Blood Dragons we could also hope for the addition of some Blood Dragon infantry, but there is nothing new unit-wise that is connected to the Necrarchs. They are basically just unique leaders for standard vampire factions, which we already have. Plus, the leadership of this bloodline is seriously in question. W'Soran has a very minor role in the lore in that he basically helps Nagash screw over Nehekhara and then vanishes. There is a far more famous Necrarch in Zacharias the Everliving. It would be a bit strange if all the Bloodlines had their founders as leaders, except the Necrarchs, especially since it would be just a standard Vampire faction. A faction, depending on leader, that would start either in Rasetra, sandwiched between Kroq-Gar and Khalida, or in Ostland. Again, I don't really see the Necrarchs happening at all.

But what do you think guys? Are we going to see all the Bloodlines in the future?

EmeraldThanatos#7267

I think Strigoi will happen in WH2 and Neferata will be game 3. The red duke is definitely coming but I'm not sure when

Crossil#2134

Not W'soran, but Melkhior the Ancient. You see, only Melkhior and Zacharias had rules on TT, or at least, I haven't seen any for W'soran.

The Strigoi could be lead by Ushoran. Vorag or Gashnag, really.

I would actually say that the Strigoi are less likely than all other Bloodlines. Red Duke is already in and would be easy to do, while the Necrarchs, if not with Vampire Counts, could relatively easily be added with Nagash. Lahmians can also appear in either VC or Nagash's Legions. Strigoi are the only ones that are questionable right now.

TheWattman#7460

EmeraldThanatos said:

I think Strigoi will happen in WH2 and Neferata will be game 3. The red duke is definitely coming but I'm not sure when

So no Abhorash then? And the Necrarchs?

Crossil said:

Not W'soran, but Melkhior the Ancient. You see, only Melkhior and Zacharias had rules on TT, or at least, I haven't seen any for W'soran.

The Strigoi could be lead by Ushoran. Vorag or Gashnag, really.

I would actually say that the Strigoi are less likely than all other Bloodlines. Red Duke is already in and would be easy to do, while the Necrarchs, if not with Vampire Counts, could relatively easily be added with Nagash. Lahmians can also appear in either VC or Nagash's Legions. Strigoi are the only ones that are questionable right now.

Interesting viewpoint. So you think putting Melkhior or Zacharias in Sylvania or as special lords for Nagash is the answer? Not seperate factions?

Timpeyo#7210

The Strigoi may just get a LH that all LLs can recruit as they were seen as beneath the other bloodlines and I I'm not sure if blood dragons need one as there more wondering knights.

I think Lahmians and Nercrarchs more likely with Lahmians getting spirit type units, vampire handmaidens and unique blood dragon knights and Nercrarchs getting abyseel terror and Frankenstein type creature maybe using creatures already in game, dead and stitched together or zombie giant

Tho they may in game three receive a new kind off faction with units fuseing the look off VC with TK having Nagash, Lahmians and Nercrarchs as LL choices

Rob18446

If you mean will they have a LL to represent each one then yeah probably eventually, unlikely there will be any roster differences though.

SakuraHeinz

Yes, I would love to see Necrarch with proper model.

And of course the Vampire Queen, maybe brings a unique Lahmian Vampire model, too.

Sultschiem#8734

I doubt all.

Necrarchs, Blood Dragons and Strigoi are all quite similar to the Van Carsteins in agendas.

The only real standout are the lahmians, which would have covens, try to fight against the other vampires and actually try to aid the "good"-factions, instead of being against them.

Crossil#2134

TheWattman said:

Crossil said:

Not W'soran, but Melkhior the Ancient. You see, only Melkhior and Zacharias had rules on TT, or at least, I haven't seen any for W'soran.

The Strigoi could be lead by Ushoran. Vorag or Gashnag, really.

I would actually say that the Strigoi are less likely than all other Bloodlines. Red Duke is already in and would be easy to do, while the Necrarchs, if not with Vampire Counts, could relatively easily be added with Nagash. Lahmians can also appear in either VC or Nagash's Legions. Strigoi are the only ones that are questionable right now.

Interesting viewpoint. So you think putting Melkhior or Zacharias in Sylvania or as special lords for Nagash is the answer? Not seperate factions?

Nah, I was talking about which race they would be with. I think that Nagash will have his own race and that these characters could be factions in that race rather than in Vampire Counts. Zacharias and Melkhior would still be in the Forest of Shadows.

SerPus#7395

TheWattman said:

Neferata is my candidate to bring in remaining missing Vampire units like Spirit Hosts, Morghasts and Abyssal Terrors etc and also the one to center around a Nagash-themed campaign. Having Nagash as a starting faction I feel is not the way of implementing him, he should be an end-game unlock when Neferata, starting in Silver Pinnacle, conquers Nagashizzar. So that's basically the Lahmian line more or less confirmed.

Everything about that is wrong.

RikRiorik#9890

I expect them to all be playable at some point. At the very least I suspect both the Lahmians and Strigoi will be. Necrarchs and Blood Dragons seem a bit more unlikely.

MeGa_N00B#2436

Neferata and red duke will most likely come.

For the other 2 I hope they will come but I do not see vampires getting many more DLCs. So, either they will come as FLCs or with Nagash but again in all likely hood they will not be implemented any time soon.

Tayvar

TheWattman said:

All signs point towards Clan Moulder being one of the next DLC factions, which means that CA has pushed all the major Skaven clans into WH2. Leaving aside Thanquol and the Verminlords for the moment, this is about the most attention and thoroughness that any race has yet recieved in the series. This brings up a question: Will we see the same treatment for the Vampire Bloodlines? The Vampires were basically the Skaven of WH1 in some sense, they got more attention than they perhaps were entitled to. And yet, as much as the Vampires have recieved, they in reality only have 2 different start positions: Sylvania and the Barrow fortress in the Grey Mountains. As WH3 draws near the question is what more can they expect to recieve, especially if all the bloodlines, already generically represented in terms of lords, will some day see playable status.

Now, some of the Bloodlines are more likely than others, specifically 2 of them imo:

Neferata - Lahmians: This is basically a given for WH3. Neferata is my candidate to bring in remaining missing Vampire units like Spirit Hosts, Morghasts and Abyssal Terrors etc and also the one to center around a Nagash-themed campaign. Having Nagash as a starting faction I feel is not the way of implementing him, he should be an end-game unlock when Neferata, starting in Silver Pinnacle, conquers Nagashizzar. So that's basically the Lahmian line more or less confirmed.

Ushoran - Strigoi: Strygos has a decent chance of making it in as well, either for the last WH2 DLC/FLC or as a later WH3 addition. Assuming that Imrik is not included in WH3, then the Fortress of Vorag is an excellent start for Strygos. Or even if the newly added Mourkain is included in game 3, they can start there as well as they would do in ME. Im personally hoping for a DLC specifically, with the hopes of integrating living Strigany units into their roster in order for a true Strygos experience. Just Ghouls would just be bland and boring.

But then there are the, imo, less likely Bloodlines:
Abhorash or the Red Duke - Blood Dragons: Don't get me wrong, Abhorash is an awesome character, but if assuming the previously mentioned lines are gonna be implemented, then that already pushed the Vampires to 7 lords. At this point I think we need to prioritize. There are several things that are against the Blood Dragons being playable. For one, Abhorash's, assuming for the moment that the Red Duke won't make it and remain only as a big bad guy for Mousillon (assuming also that its not given to Mallobaude), faction would need different mechanics than the others. Blood Keep is not an option as the Grey Mountains are already crowded enough as they are and Abhorash has always been a wanderer. In order to properly represent him we would need some sort of Vampire horde-system, plus a very different system of vampiric corruption. And honestly, his story does seem him much more fitted as a Legendary Hero than a Faction Lord, roaming the world for worthy opponents and all. This makes me question whether we will ever see the Blood Dragons in the game.

W'Soran or Zacharias the Everliving - the Nercrarchs: This is the Bloodline I see as the least likely of making it into the game, really ever. This would push them up to 9 lords total. And there are several problems with the Necrarchs. For one, atleast with the Blood Dragons we could also hope for the addition of some Blood Dragon infantry, but there is nothing new unit-wise that is connected to the Necrarchs. They are basically just unique leaders for standard vampire factions, which we already have. Plus, the leadership of this bloodline is seriously in question. W'Soran has a very minor role in the lore in that he basically helps Nagash screw over Nehekhara and then vanishes. There is a far more famous Necrarch in Zacharias the Everliving. It would be a bit strange if all the Bloodlines had their founders as leaders, except the Necrarchs, especially since it would be just a standard Vampire faction. A faction, depending on leader, that would start either in Rasetra, sandwiched between Kroq-Gar and Khalida, or in Ostland. Again, I don't really see the Necrarchs happening at all.

But what do you think guys? Are we going to see all the Bloodlines in the future?

GW was overfocusing on the Von Carsteins in the 8th Edition and CA followed their footsteps, unfortunately, and the Generic Bloodlines Mechanic make a Unique Bloodlines Mechanics less likely.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire_Counts#Notable_Characters

Seswatha#7633

Imo VC bloodlines will sell really well, especially if extended with some loreful additions for thematic armies.

I kinda want a "return of Nagash" dlc that introduces him plus the leaders of the remaining bloodlines as potential Mortarchs.

It would make for a great narrative to connect games 2 and 3 and could be an interesting preorder option.

Fossoway#5540

Just want to point out that we already have a Blood Dragon (Luthor Harkon). We still need the Red Duke though.

Cortes31#6909

I only care about Strigoi! Justice for Ushoran!

capybarasiesta89#4722

I hope for these two to be playable

Zacharias the Everliving and Necrarch Brotherhood






Necrarch desperately needs new model





Ushoran (most likely with Marshes of Madness) and Strigos Empire

Many speculate that the so-called Ghoul King said to be haunted and hunting the ruins of Mourkain could indeed be Ushoran.

I would rather have them as DLC than FLC, because of new potential mechanics and content.

Ushorun could be FLC because he already has enough units in VC roster to get reduced upkeep, Ghouls, Crypt Horrors, Bats, Wolves, Varghulf, Vargheist, Terrorgheist

DarthKa

englisharcher89 said:

Ushoran (most likely with Marshes of Madness) and Strigos Empire

Many speculate that the so-called Ghoul King said to be haunted and hunting the ruins of Mourkain could indeed be Ushoran.

I would rather have them as DLC than FLC, because of new potential mechanics and content.

Ushorun could be FLC because he already has enough units in VC roster to get reduced upkeep, Ghouls, Crypt Horrors, Bats, Wolves, Varghulf, Vargheist, Terrorgheist

Ushoran is alive in AoS so it was "retconned" to be alive to (somehow) survive the End Times.

I would like to have each of the bloodlines represented in the game but the major roadblock I see is that only Zacharias (6th) and Neferata (ET) has TT rules so it could be a difficult sell to GW. But who knows.

TheWattman#7460

englisharcher89 said:

I hope for these two to be playable

Zacharias the Everliving and Necrarch Brotherhood






Necrarch desperately needs new model

2 Necrarch factions? That seems VERY unlikely. Updated models yes, but 2 playable lords?

Itharus#3127

There's 5 Vampire "counts" lords atm. I'm guessing you can expect one more. I honestly thought it would be the Strigoi.

Captain_Rex#1635

We need them.

- Neferata (WH3 DLC)
- Zacharias (WH2 DLC)
- Ushoran/Vorag (FLC)
- Red Duke (FLC)

Tayvar

Fossoway said:

Just want to point out that we already have a Blood Dragon (Luthor Harkon). We still need the Red Duke though.

Yea Luthor Harkon is a Blood Dragon, and he is also a very pragmatic Vampire despite his insanity, that's why Luthor Harkon follow rule number 3 from the 'things I will do if I am ever the Vampire' List.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/JustForFun/ThingsIWillDoIfIAmEverTheVampire

Itharus#3127

Red Duke I do not think will ever be a starting faction. He's designed to be destroyed by quests. You *can* however confederate him and he is a legendary lord. Same thing for Boris. Boris is also meant to die -- beastmen quest.

So you *can* get them and they do have skills. You just gotta work for it.

I think we will see more of these, tbh.

Michael4537

I hope we see them all eventually.

Tayvar

Ingr8 said:

Well so far they have confirmed:

• Thinblood
  
• Brujah
  
• Malkavians
  
• Toreador
  
• Tremere; and
  
• Ventrue
  

The Nosferatu are also rumoured to be in there

And with Paradox Interactive as publisher, less known Clans might become playable with DLCs.

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Clan_(VTM)#The_13_major_clans

Lord_Distamorfin#1941

I expect full bloodline representation by the end of game 3. The lack of 8th edition units is clearly no bar to content as we've seen with the High Elf Ranger unit we just got, so that opens the door to a broader variety of undead units that could accompany 1-2 lord packs. Below are possible lord packs, along with the units that would most likely fit the theme.

Lahmia- Neferata, along with
- Proper generic Lahmian vampire lord
- Lahmian Guard (End Time regiment, likely candidate for turning into a generic unit along with halberd version)
- Coven throne
- Spirit Hosts
- Tomb Stalker (part of Kemmler's Army of the Cairns, but essentially a reskinned Tomb Scorpion)

Necrarch- W'soran or Zacharias most likely, along with
- Proper generic Necrarch lord
- Abyssal Terror mount
- Patchwork men (frankenstein-type zombies)
- Knockers (specific kind of zombie found in mines)
- Wicker Man
- Fenbeasts

Strigoi- Ushoran. Unlikely to be a lord pack because we already have generic Strigoi lords, probably FLC. Hypothetically, they could add living Strigany units.

Blood Dragon- Red Duke, Walach Harkon, Merovech d'Mousillon, or Mallobaude. Abhorash seems like an unlikely lord because of his solitary lifestyle, other Blood Dragons have done far more in terms of leadership. Also likely FLC, as there aren't many units that would go with them beyond a faction-unique Blood Dragon hero as an alternative to regular Vampire heroes.

As for other units, they could add the rest of Kemmler's Army of the Cairns. Shadow druids, Simulacra, Barrow Kings, Shadow Druids, Embalmed Ones are all potential options

And yes, this would put the Vampire Counts at 9 lords. This is not a problem, as Empire, Warriors of Chaos, and Daemons of Chaos could all easily hit 9 or more.

SaurianDruid#4682

I hope we do. Ideally every major sub-faction of every faction will have a legendary lord to lead them. Lizardmen have their slann, saurus, skink, and kroxigor lords. Greenskins have their savage, black, night, and goblin lords. Skaven have three of the four Great Clans and just need Moulder now.

Vampire Counts should have a rep from each bloodline. Von Carsteins are already wildly over-done so no more of them. We need the other bloodlines to get the full vampire experience in Total War.

Personally I am most hoping for Strigoi. Easily my favorite bloodline.

Tayvar

Itharus said:

Red Duke I do not think will ever be a starting faction. He's designed to be destroyed by quests. You *can* however confederate him and he is a legendary lord. Same thing for Boris. Boris is also meant to die -- beastmen quest.

So you *can* get them and they do have skills. You just gotta work for it.

I think we will see more of these, tbh.

Quests can be changed, Boris should be playable from the start and not just a beastmen's punchbag.

saweendra#3399

All bloodlines must be playble at some point.

Captain_Rex#1635

Lord_Distamorfin said:

I expect full bloodline representation by the end of game 3. The lack of 8th edition units is clearly no bar to content as we've seen with the High Elf Ranger unit we just got, so that opens the door to a broader variety of undead units that could accompany 1-2 lord packs. Below are possible lord packs, along with the units that would most likely fit the theme.

Lahmia- Neferata, along with
- Proper generic Lahmian vampire lord
- Lahmian Guard (End Time regiment, likely candidate for turning into a generic unit along with halberd version)
- Coven throne
- Spirit Hosts
- Tomb Stalker (part of Kemmler's Army of the Cairns, but essentially a reskinned Tomb Scorpion)

Necrarch- W'soran or Zacharias most likely, along with
- Proper generic Necrarch lord
- Abyssal Terror mount
- Patchwork men (frankenstein-type zombies)
- Knockers (specific kind of zombie found in mines)
- Wicker Man
- Fenbeasts

Strigoi- Ushoran. Unlikely to be a lord pack because we already have generic Strigoi lords, probably FLC. Hypothetically, they could add living Strigany units.

Blood Dragon- Red Duke, Walach Harkon, Merovech d'Mousillon, or Mallobaude. Abhorash seems like an unlikely lord because of his solitary lifestyle, other Blood Dragons have done far more in terms of leadership. Also likely FLC, as there aren't many units that would go with them beyond a faction-unique Blood Dragon hero as an alternative to regular Vampire heroes.

As for other units, they could add the rest of Kemmler's Army of the Cairns. Shadow druids, Simulacra, Barrow Kings, Shadow Druids, Embalmed Ones are all potential options

And yes, this would put the Vampire Counts at 9 lords. This is not a problem, as Empire, Warriors of Chaos, and Daemons of Chaos could all easily hit 9 or more.

I would like to add Neferatas Handmaidens and the Corpse Giant for Zach.

Draxynnic#3149

Fossoway said:

Just want to point out that we already have a Blood Dragon (Luthor Harkon). We still need the Red Duke though.

He's a Blood Dragon by name, but behaves so differently that he's really his own thing rather than being a reasonable representative of how a Blood Dragon campaign would play out.