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Why is the game so fast?

VladdyVladdy Registered Users Posts: 317
edited June 3 in General Discussion
On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

This isn't fun.

We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

Comments

  • TombThingsTombThings Registered Users Posts: 102
    I like when it goes faster. I don’t have the time or patience to go past turn 100 most the time. I love a nice, short campaign. Vampire Coast was refreshingly quick.
  • HarconnHarconn Registered Users Posts: 937
    It's a grand strategy game, I think the map should not be painted within a dozen turns. Didn't rome have some mechanics to prevent snowballing of big empires at least a bit (inflation, public order)?
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    My German Youtube-Channel - Let's Plays (Strategy, RPG, Indie,...): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChwblqvwr8XxKP0GzCcUb8Q
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 24,604
    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    Because they balanced it with the original ME turn times in mind which could go up to five minutes for some unlucky people. Now when they fixed that, it becomes more noticeable how off the game's pacing is.

  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,915
    Regional occupation is dead and buried and there it should and will stay. Campaigns are actually fun now. In my Imrik campaign the Dark Elves has almost completely dominated Ulthuan by turn 40. Now I’m im turn 190 and entrenched in a war of liberation to save the Elven homeland. I’ve never had the opportunity to do this before, and it is wonderful.
    ò_ó
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 620

    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    Because they balanced it with the original ME turn times in mind which could go up to five minutes for some unlucky people. Now when they fixed that, it becomes more noticeable how off the game's pacing is.

    Dude, read what TC wrote.


    Doesn't matter how much faster the Turn Times go by. That has nothing to do with how VC can easily obliterate all the humans by turn 45.
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 620
    Warlocke said:

    Regional occupation is dead and buried and there it should and will stay. Campaigns are actually fun now. In my Imrik campaign the Dark Elves has almost completely dominated Ulthuan by turn 40. Now I’m im turn 190 and entrenched in a war of liberation to save the Elven homeland. I’ve never had the opportunity to do this before, and it is wonderful.

    A whole lot less fun when you're Dark Elf or some other evil faction though.


    "Alright time to take Ulthu-GODDAMMNIT YOU RAZED THE WHOLE DAMN THING ALREADY"
  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,915

    Warlocke said:

    Regional occupation is dead and buried and there it should and will stay. Campaigns are actually fun now. In my Imrik campaign the Dark Elves has almost completely dominated Ulthuan by turn 40. Now I’m im turn 190 and entrenched in a war of liberation to save the Elven homeland. I’ve never had the opportunity to do this before, and it is wonderful.

    A whole lot less fun when you're Dark Elf or some other evil faction though.


    "Alright time to take Ulthu-GODDAMMNIT YOU RAZED THE WHOLE DAMN THING ALREADY"
    I could see how that would be annoying, fair enough. How many times have you actually seen Ulthuan razed, however? That hasn’t happened in any of my campaigns.
    ò_ó
  • GreenColouredGreenColoured Registered Users Posts: 620
    Warlocke said:

    Warlocke said:

    Regional occupation is dead and buried and there it should and will stay. Campaigns are actually fun now. In my Imrik campaign the Dark Elves has almost completely dominated Ulthuan by turn 40. Now I’m im turn 190 and entrenched in a war of liberation to save the Elven homeland. I’ve never had the opportunity to do this before, and it is wonderful.

    A whole lot less fun when you're Dark Elf or some other evil faction though.


    "Alright time to take Ulthu-GODDAMMNIT YOU RAZED THE WHOLE DAMN THING ALREADY"
    I could see how that would be annoying, fair enough. How many times have you actually seen Ulthuan razed, however? That hasn’t happened in any of my campaigns.
    Whoever was leaving all those vampiric attrition...that guy. No idea, that's the thing about razes.


    Granted I stopped playing the game for quite a while now as I couldn't stand all the bugs breaking the game.
  • FerestorFerestor Registered Users Posts: 139
    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    In rome you must convert the New settlements to your culture. In WH you get instand access to your units. Thats why in rome the conquest was slower.
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,870

    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    Because they balanced it with the original ME turn times in mind which could go up to five minutes for some unlucky people. Now when they fixed that, it becomes more noticeable how off the game's pacing is.

    Dude, read what TC wrote.


    Doesn't matter how much faster the Turn Times go by. That has nothing to do with how VC can easily obliterate all the humans by turn 45.
    Does this mean the Order Tide is no more?
  • ProcessingProcessing Registered Users Posts: 107

    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    Because they balanced it with the original ME turn times in mind which could go up to five minutes for some unlucky people. Now when they fixed that, it becomes more noticeable how off the game's pacing is.

    Dude, read what TC wrote.


    Doesn't matter how much faster the Turn Times go by. That has nothing to do with how VC can easily obliterate all the humans by turn 45.
    Does this mean the Order Tide is no more?
    Yes and No. VC are more aggressive now but It varies. In my last Settra campaign, before I temporarily left cuz of bugs, Dwarfs dominated badlands and mountains and Sylvania conquered half of the empire all the way to Grunburg... But then the Prince and Emperor got angry and within 10 turns, he reclaimed whole empire and destroyed Sylvania :smiley:

    So I would say Ordertide is like 60/40 or 70/30 for order races but it happens far less, which is great...

    Still, I would rather have 50/50 but maybe in the future...
  • davedave1124davedave1124 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,870

    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    Because they balanced it with the original ME turn times in mind which could go up to five minutes for some unlucky people. Now when they fixed that, it becomes more noticeable how off the game's pacing is.

    Dude, read what TC wrote.


    Doesn't matter how much faster the Turn Times go by. That has nothing to do with how VC can easily obliterate all the humans by turn 45.
    Does this mean the Order Tide is no more?
    Yes and No. VC are more aggressive now but It varies. In my last Settra campaign, before I temporarily left cuz of bugs, Dwarfs dominated badlands and mountains and Sylvania conquered half of the empire all the way to Grunburg... But then the Prince and Emperor got angry and within 10 turns, he reclaimed whole empire and destroyed Sylvania :smiley:

    So I would say Ordertide is like 60/40 or 70/30 for order races but it happens far less, which is great...

    Still, I would rather have 50/50 but maybe in the future...
    To me, this is simply CA tweaking the AI. I wish people wouldn’t act as if it’s easy to balance multiple AIs and a human player.
  • VladdyVladdy Registered Users Posts: 317

    I like when it goes faster. I don’t have the time or patience to go past turn 100 most the time. I love a nice, short campaign. Vampire Coast was refreshingly quick.

    I like vampire coast. On my first play through I spend the firsr 100 turns sealing around without conquer a single city. Definitely a very good counter to the fast pace of the game.
    Red_Dox said:

    No Building Autoconversion: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1907085753
    Unit Caps: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1957318361

    Just an idea to slow it down for your amusement.

    -----Red Dox

    Thank you. I have to investigate every possible way to slow down the ai. Maybe something to change the agressive approach on the campaign map.
    My problem is...I like human in Empire land, VC in sylvania...I love mini-factions because the makes feel the world alive.

    I think my ideal game will be the one where none takes the upper hands. Where alle the races keep living...fight each others...maybe little conquest...

    I don't know in the lore for how many years races stayed around. Hundreds of years? Thousands?
    Now in the game they desappear in 50 turns. I can't even get a chance to see them.
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,353
    Vladdy said:



    Thank you. I have to investigate every possible way to slow down the ai. Maybe something to change the agressive approach on the campaign map.
    My problem is...I like human in Empire land, VC in sylvania...I love mini-factions because the makes feel the world alive.

    I think my ideal game will be the one where none takes the upper hands. Where alle the races keep living...fight each others...maybe little conquest...

    I don't know in the lore for how many years races stayed around. Hundreds of years? Thousands?
    Now in the game they desappear in 50 turns. I can't even get a chance to see them.

    In the lore it mostly was a standoff because GW wanted it that way. The setting was a world with enemies on all sides where you can have epic fights against whomever. Which for campaigns was more problematic since not everyone neighbored everyone. 40k had it a bit easier with warp travel and 40k had also the bonus of millions of Imperial worlds, so when a complete sector was wiped out in a campaign it mostly still was shrugged off and the occasional Exterminatus on some planets also did not matter. Back in WHFB we have already hundred thousands of soldiers dying in battles in an endless stream. Which often gets idiotic, especially when we talk "the dying races" who not reproduce like rabbits and can bring up the next fighting generation in like 15 years.
    So GW was relucant to just bomb entire cities or provinces into barren lands just because.

    Cut to Total War Warhammer, where WE are the generals who do the campaigns. We can paint the map and exterminate everyone in our way. And so can the AI. As it should be. Because if the AI would just stick around in their starting provinces, were they might lorefully been placed, then there would be no actual handicap. The AI confederating or just making alliances is fine in the most cases. In cases were it sucks, there is a mod again
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2092471220
    Everyone hates Ordertide for valid reasons. But kicking their asses can still be more fun then just steamrolling over a dozen meager kingdoms who never even really got to Tier 5. Not seeing some factions prosper is the way of live. Some prosper, some get gangbanged up or just betrayed and vanish.

    ------Red Dox
  • VladdyVladdy Registered Users Posts: 317
    Red_Dox said:

    Vladdy said:



    Thank you. I have to investigate every possible way to slow down the ai. Maybe something to change the agressive approach on the campaign map.
    My problem is...I like human in Empire land, VC in sylvania...I love mini-factions because the makes feel the world alive.

    I think my ideal game will be the one where none takes the upper hands. Where alle the races keep living...fight each others...maybe little conquest...

    I don't know in the lore for how many years races stayed around. Hundreds of years? Thousands?
    Now in the game they desappear in 50 turns. I can't even get a chance to see them.

    In the lore it mostly was a standoff because GW wanted it that way. The setting was a world with enemies on all sides where you can have epic fights against whomever. Which for campaigns was more problematic since not everyone neighbored everyone. 40k had it a bit easier with warp travel and 40k had also the bonus of millions of Imperial worlds, so when a complete sector was wiped out in a campaign it mostly still was shrugged off and the occasional Exterminatus on some planets also did not matter. Back in WHFB we have already hundred thousands of soldiers dying in battles in an endless stream. Which often gets idiotic, especially when we talk "the dying races" who not reproduce like rabbits and can bring up the next fighting generation in like 15 years.
    So GW was relucant to just bomb entire cities or provinces into barren lands just because.

    Cut to Total War Warhammer, where WE are the generals who do the campaigns. We can paint the map and exterminate everyone in our way. And so can the AI. As it should be. Because if the AI would just stick around in their starting provinces, were they might lorefully been placed, then there would be no actual handicap. The AI confederating or just making alliances is fine in the most cases. In cases were it sucks, there is a mod again
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2092471220
    Everyone hates Ordertide for valid reasons. But kicking their asses can still be more fun then just steamrolling over a dozen meager kingdoms who never even really got to Tier 5. Not seeing some factions prosper is the way of live. Some prosper, some get gangbanged up or just betrayed and vanish.

    ------Red Dox
    I will give a try to AI limited expansion -satured empire and unnatural selection 2.
    I usually prefer to play in a passive way, take 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 provinces and after expand in a very slow way.
  • SinisterWeaselSinisterWeasel Registered Users Posts: 6
    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    Mod for regional occupation, similar to the first game's system if you're interested.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1919486757
  • VladdyVladdy Registered Users Posts: 317

    Vladdy said:

    On turn 45 Vampire counts almost obliterate humans. Dwarf own all the mountains. Greenskin almost all the desert.

    This isn't fun.

    We need limits about who can settler where like total warhammer I.
    It gave a real shape to the worlds, a geography. You could feel you were going deep in enemy territory because the enviroments itself was so hostile.

    I remember how cool was when they added skarsnik. Dangerous greenskin in the mountains around the empire. And you as the empire wasn't so ready to go after them...because you cannot survive so well in wild mountains.

    Total warhammer I makes you feel the diversity of the world, of its cultures. It makes you think about it twice before adventure out of the natural bioma of your race.

    Now it's just a paint the map...fast...faster...fastest!

    I'm thinking about reinstall the fist game.

    Mod for regional occupation, similar to the first game's system if you're interested.
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1919486757
    Thank you very much, I will try it now.
  • NazjaxNazjax Registered Users Posts: 795
    In my opinion the warhammer 1 system of occupation was to limited.

    But on warhammer 2 it's the reverse. You can settle too much and everywhere !

    The climatic idea and changes were nice at first but in my opinion it seems that CA could make a little rework to make it more interesting.

    My idea for make the regional occupation a bit less ridiculous and more realistic but still interesting.

    So you still lhave the 3 climates types

    Suitable (Green)
    Unpleasant (Orange)
    Unhabitable (Red)

    But now the unhabitable one is like that : You CAN'T settle here. The only thing you can do is doing a sort of fort/gate/keep that will allow you to have a better position for battle and avoid casualties and give a minor resplenshiment.(Less than in cities, probably like in your own territory without being in town) and give some area vision with a unique building that give better garnison and walls/towers.

    This will make possible to settle everywhere and control strategic place over your kingdom, but will make impossible to build building/create armies etc...

    This could follow the idea that CA will change the siege battles in Warhammer 3.

    Suitable and unpleasant are still the same, and maybe make more differences over what province/town is suitable or not.

    I mean, Nagarythe is a magic desolation, not like the actual badlands that are just pre-desertic.
    Also, the mountains of the Empire or Bretonnia are not the same as Mountains in the badlands or World Edge mountains.
    Norsca should be in ice and not in chaotic waste, I mean ofc there is a lot more corruption arround here but... It's still frosty and not totaly chaotic !

    That are example but i would like a concept like this, and make less factions suitable everywhere. Like 1 or 3 suitable (I dont count the exceptions for people like Grom or Eltharion for example) and other are more likely unpleasant.





  • ZafrasZafras Registered Users Posts: 421
    I think the game is fine as it is. We got this new occupation system because people didn't like the one from wh1. It also made 0 sense, don't know why anyone would want that back.
  • Artjuh90Artjuh90 Registered Users Posts: 605
    ill give you one.
    why can norsca only settle on ports outside the norths and not in the mainland.
    but dwarves can have ports? which live in the mountains
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